• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 08:13
CEST 14:13
KST 21:13
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists14[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Fresh Flow9[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt2: News Flash10[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos0Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy21
Community News
2026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers11Maestros of the Game 2 announced32026 GSL Tour plans announced11Weekly Cups (April 6-12): herO doubles, "Villains" prevail1MaNa leaves Team Liquid21
StarCraft 2
General
MaNa leaves Team Liquid 2026 GSL Tour plans announced Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists Weekly Cups (April 6-12): herO doubles, "Villains" prevail Oliveira Would Have Returned If EWC Continued
Tourneys
GSL CK: More events planned pending crowdfunding 2026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) SEL Doubles (SC Evo Bimonthly)
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 521 Memorable Boss The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 520 Moving Fees Mutation # 519 Inner Power
Brood War
General
Pros React To: Tulbo in Ro.16 Group A ASL21 General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Data needed RepMastered™: replay sharing and analyzer site
Tourneys
Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Ro16 Group A [ASL21] Ro16 Group B
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Any training maps people recommend? Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Starcraft Tabletop Miniature Game
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread YouTube Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT]
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
[G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Reappraising The Situation T…
TrAiDoS
lurker extra damage testi…
StaticNine
Broowar part 2
qwaykee
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1870 users

Simple Questions, Simple Answers - Page 341

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
Post a Reply
Prev 1 339 340 341 342 343 487 Next
Zealgoon
Profile Joined January 2013
China187 Posts
August 31 2017 03:08 GMT
#6801
Why do every ZvP BO tell me to upgrade missile attack first? In my experience a fast carapace upgrade makes cracklings considerably stronger in the mid-late game. Granted, zerg uses hydra a lot in the midgame, but carapace helps hydras as well.
Bakuryu
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Germany1065 Posts
August 31 2017 03:54 GMT
#6802
because those BOs are focused on mass hydra in midgame and +1 missile is better for them compared to +1 carapace.
Jealous
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
10313 Posts
August 31 2017 07:05 GMT
#6803
On August 31 2017 12:08 Zealgoon wrote:
Why do every ZvP BO tell me to upgrade missile attack first? In my experience a fast carapace upgrade makes cracklings considerably stronger in the mid-late game. Granted, zerg uses hydra a lot in the midgame, but carapace helps hydras as well.

To elaborate on what Bakuryu said (and because I only learned this a few months ago myself), 1 Carapace for Hydralisks doesn't change the amount of attacks it requires Zealots/Dragoons to kill a Hydralisk as much as it does for a Zergling. For a Zergling, being behind by +1 or more Carapace vs. Zealot Attack is the difference between 2 and 3 Zealot hits, whereas for a Hydralisk the % difference would be considerably less.
"The right to vote is only the oar of the slaveship, I wanna be free." -- бум бум сучка!
shall_burn
Profile Joined January 2016
252 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-31 08:24:58
August 31 2017 08:23 GMT
#6804
How very iteresting, as I do remember reading about upgrading carapace first, and the nubmer of hits was something like 5 against 6. But I don't see it now (checked LP, the 3 base spire 5 hatch hydra page). Either it's my memory playing tricks, or the page/BO has been edited...
ortseam
Profile Joined April 2015
996 Posts
August 31 2017 12:52 GMT
#6805
It is 5 against 6, missile is still better ofc
gDPhantom
Profile Joined January 2015
New Zealand162 Posts
August 31 2017 14:33 GMT
#6806
is PvR(Z) just an auto loss? am i meant to double scout on 4 player maps? seems unwinnable
YNWA
Zealgoon
Profile Joined January 2013
China187 Posts
August 31 2017 15:04 GMT
#6807
On August 31 2017 16:05 Jealous wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 31 2017 12:08 Zealgoon wrote:
Why do every ZvP BO tell me to upgrade missile attack first? In my experience a fast carapace upgrade makes cracklings considerably stronger in the mid-late game. Granted, zerg uses hydra a lot in the midgame, but carapace helps hydras as well.

To elaborate on what Bakuryu said (and because I only learned this a few months ago myself), 1 Carapace for Hydralisks doesn't change the amount of attacks it requires Zealots/Dragoons to kill a Hydralisk as much as it does for a Zergling. For a Zergling, being behind by +1 or more Carapace vs. Zealot Attack is the difference between 2 and 3 Zealot hits, whereas for a Hydralisk the % difference would be considerably less.

I know, and that's exactly why I prefew carapace first. Cracklings with carapace murder protoss like nothing else. Obviously missile attack first is better if you plan to stay on lair tech for a very long time, but what if you're going for turtle into fast hive?
AcMilan91
Profile Joined August 2017
105 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-31 16:56:43
August 31 2017 15:13 GMT
#6808
What should i do when i attack with muta stack? Produce drones? More mutas? Uograde to hive asap?
Jealous
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
10313 Posts
August 31 2017 15:31 GMT
#6809
On September 01 2017 00:04 Zealgoon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 31 2017 16:05 Jealous wrote:
On August 31 2017 12:08 Zealgoon wrote:
Why do every ZvP BO tell me to upgrade missile attack first? In my experience a fast carapace upgrade makes cracklings considerably stronger in the mid-late game. Granted, zerg uses hydra a lot in the midgame, but carapace helps hydras as well.

To elaborate on what Bakuryu said (and because I only learned this a few months ago myself), 1 Carapace for Hydralisks doesn't change the amount of attacks it requires Zealots/Dragoons to kill a Hydralisk as much as it does for a Zergling. For a Zergling, being behind by +1 or more Carapace vs. Zealot Attack is the difference between 2 and 3 Zealot hits, whereas for a Hydralisk the % difference would be considerably less.

I know, and that's exactly why I prefew carapace first. Cracklings with carapace murder protoss like nothing else. Obviously missile attack first is better if you plan to stay on lair tech for a very long time, but what if you're going for turtle into fast hive?

I think you can elaborate from what Bakuryu said.

On August 31 2017 23:33 gDPhantom wrote:
is PvR(Z) just an auto loss? am i meant to double scout on 4 player maps? seems unwinnable

You just have to find a 1 base build that works for you. 1 base play is difficult but fun. You can find builds on Liquipedia. Depending on the map, you might not even be at a disadvantage (Outsider, for example).

On 4 player maps, I always double scout if my first Probe doesn't find the enemy on the first try, even if it's just PvZ and not PvR.

Remember, In Brood War practically nothing is "autoloss" and "unwinnable." Flash held 5 Pool with 14CC, Jaedong with 12 Hatch, etc. It's a self-defeating attitude ^^
"The right to vote is only the oar of the slaveship, I wanna be free." -- бум бум сучка!
Jealous
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
10313 Posts
August 31 2017 15:33 GMT
#6810
On September 01 2017 00:13 AcMilan91 wrote:
What should when i attack with muta stack? Produce drones? More mutas? Uograde to hive asap?

I'm sorry, but, what? What match-up is this? What do you mean "when I attack with Muta stack," - in ZvZ that is like 50% of the match-up if not more?
"The right to vote is only the oar of the slaveship, I wanna be free." -- бум бум сучка!
AcMilan91
Profile Joined August 2017
105 Posts
August 31 2017 20:58 GMT
#6811
On September 01 2017 00:33 Jealous wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 01 2017 00:13 AcMilan91 wrote:
What should when i attack with muta stack? Produce drones? More mutas? Uograde to hive asap?

I'm sorry, but, what? What match-up is this? What do you mean "when I attack with Muta stack," - in ZvZ that is like 50% of the match-up if not more?

What should i do lets say ZvT and i go 3 hatch muta and i am microing with mutas, what shouls i do with multitasking, what is prioirity when i am attacking with mutas, what to do in base ?
lob_star
Profile Joined May 2017
3 Posts
August 31 2017 22:07 GMT
#6812
Is anybody willing to analyze my replays? Or does anybody know where I can send to have a YouTuber analyze my replays (other than Tiny Land)? I would do it myself, but I'm too bad to know what to look for other than "are my hatcheries always producing a unit?" "am I supply capped at any point in the game" "is there any point in the game where I let my money go high..."
Jealous
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
10313 Posts
September 01 2017 01:19 GMT
#6813
On September 01 2017 05:58 AcMilan91 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 01 2017 00:33 Jealous wrote:
On September 01 2017 00:13 AcMilan91 wrote:
What should when i attack with muta stack? Produce drones? More mutas? Uograde to hive asap?

I'm sorry, but, what? What match-up is this? What do you mean "when I attack with Muta stack," - in ZvZ that is like 50% of the match-up if not more?

What should i do lets say ZvT and i go 3 hatch muta and i am microing with mutas, what shouls i do with multitasking, what is prioirity when i am attacking with mutas, what to do in base ?

Taking your 3rd base and getting your Lurkers on the ramp, getting Hive ASAP I think? Better Zergs please help me on this one.
"The right to vote is only the oar of the slaveship, I wanna be free." -- бум бум сучка!
jrkirby
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States1510 Posts
September 01 2017 01:20 GMT
#6814
Is stim good in original starcraft without brood war? I imagine that it's the medics are what make it so strong. Otherwise zerg could bait out the stim and then wait and clean up the marines when they're weak. I would question if bio is any good without medics, but there's no lurkers either, so it probably is.
Jealous
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
10313 Posts
September 01 2017 01:20 GMT
#6815
On September 01 2017 07:07 lob_star wrote:
Is anybody willing to analyze my replays? Or does anybody know where I can send to have a YouTuber analyze my replays (other than Tiny Land)? I would do it myself, but I'm too bad to know what to look for other than "are my hatcheries always producing a unit?" "am I supply capped at any point in the game" "is there any point in the game where I let my money go high..."

On August 24 2017 17:26 Jealous wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 24 2017 17:18 AcMilan91 wrote:
Is there anyone here who can look my replay and tell.me what ahould i change on my gameplay, 1400mmr

Generally, if you want others to look at your replay, this is what you do:

1. You can start your own thread, but you don't have to.

2. You post the replay

3. You analyze the replay yourself first. You point out key areas you think that you messed up, or key moments, or both. Then you could say "how can I do x better" or "why did y not work," etc.

Historically, this has been the MO. You need to invest some of your own effort into figuring out what to do before you expect others to do the same. If you just post a replay and give no substance or focus of your own, it is likely that there will be simply too much to be said about what needs to be fixed. By providing the substance, the responding analyst knows what they don't have to write themselves. By providing focus, you are more likely to get the direct information you need to shore up your weakness.

"The right to vote is only the oar of the slaveship, I wanna be free." -- бум бум сучка!
olabaz
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States298 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-09-01 03:20:12
September 01 2017 03:18 GMT
#6816
Why are the maps in remastered so shitty? What happened to Tau Cross, Match Point, Bloody Ridge, Colosseum, Destination etc. Way better to ladder on than Outsider, Nostalgia and friends.
ProMeTheus112
Profile Joined December 2009
France2027 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-09-01 10:35:16
September 01 2017 10:34 GMT
#6817
They are not shitty >.< did you see yesterday's tourney games, unconventional style GG on nostalgia PvZ for example
So far for me a conclusion is, a nat with gas is probably not obligatory to make a good map!
shall_burn
Profile Joined January 2016
252 Posts
September 01 2017 12:57 GMT
#6818
On September 01 2017 19:34 ProMeTheus112 wrote:
They are not shitty >.< did you see yesterday's tourney games, unconventional style GG on nostalgia PvZ for example
So far for me a conclusion is, a nat with gas is probably not obligatory to make a good map!

where could I get the vod, please?
Mizconout
Profile Joined August 2016
52 Posts
September 01 2017 15:47 GMT
#6819
Is 2 Hatch Lurker the same build order against Protoss as it is against Terran?

I can't find any replays or VODs demonstrating 2 or 3 hatch lurkers against Protoss, could someone please link me a reply and or a VOD?

On the Liquidpeida page for both of the 2 hatch lurker builds don't specify how many Lurkers the initial push should have. Could someone clarify how many lurkers the initial push should have?

Thank you!
Dazed.
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Canada3301 Posts
September 01 2017 16:46 GMT
#6820
On September 01 2017 05:58 AcMilan91 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 01 2017 00:33 Jealous wrote:
On September 01 2017 00:13 AcMilan91 wrote:
What should when i attack with muta stack? Produce drones? More mutas? Uograde to hive asap?

I'm sorry, but, what? What match-up is this? What do you mean "when I attack with Muta stack," - in ZvZ that is like 50% of the match-up if not more?

What should i do lets say ZvT and i go 3 hatch muta and i am microing with mutas, what shouls i do with multitasking, what is prioirity when i am attacking with mutas, what to do in base ?
Priorities on what to target differ based on circumstance, so its hard to answer as I dont want to be too general--- but, pick off a few scvs here and there, marines that are easy targets. 3 hatch muta isnt really meant to 'do damage' just keep him boxed in, so whenever you see an opening to do a bit of damage, do it. If you've reduced his marine count a lot, sometimes you can just kill the 1-2 turrets over his rax, flood a bit of lings in, games over.

You should be droning besides a 4-6 hydras that you want to make into lurker, while teching hive. Again, I dont want to be too general: If he has a huge marine presence out on the map and your low on lings for whatever reason, you might want to prioritize that temporarily in order to control where he moves a bit [and potentially kill reinforcements].

Just keep this basic idea in mind: 3 hatch muta THREATENS damage, which keeps the terran back long enough for you to lurker, drone, and get everything positioned to protect your third while teching.
Never say Die! ||| Fight you? No, I want to kill you.
Prev 1 339 340 341 342 343 487 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
12:00
Group C
WardiTV344
Rex58
3DClanTV 25
Liquipedia
CranKy Ducklings
10:00
Master Swan Open #102
CranKy Ducklings95
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Lowko252
TKL 75
Rex 58
Railgan 50
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 42417
Calm 5901
Horang2 1329
Mini 654
EffOrt 364
BeSt 324
actioN 323
Mind 257
Last 208
ZerO 189
[ Show more ]
ggaemo 160
JYJ 105
Aegong 79
Barracks 71
Sharp 57
Backho 54
Hyun 53
910 53
ToSsGirL 44
[sc1f]eonzerg 40
NaDa 28
Hm[arnc] 25
soO 23
Bale 22
Movie 20
IntoTheRainbow 14
GoRush 11
Dota 2
Gorgc4761
ODPixel98
BananaSlamJamma40
Counter-Strike
zeus1074
Super Smash Bros
Westballz43
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor181
Other Games
singsing1757
B2W.Neo1113
Mew2King129
Sick112
QueenE37
Trikslyr35
ZerO(Twitch)20
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream10337
PGL Dota 2 - Secondary Stream2422
Other Games
gamesdonequick749
BasetradeTV210
StarCraft: Brood War
CasterMuse 20
lovetv 13
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• CranKy Ducklings SOOP3
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• blackmanpl 22
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos1636
• TFBlade1166
Upcoming Events
SC Evo League
1h 17m
IPSL
3h 47m
WolFix vs nOmaD
dxtr13 vs Razz
BSL
6h 47m
UltrA vs KwarK
Gosudark vs cavapoo
dxtr13 vs HBO
Doodle vs Razz
Patches Events
9h 47m
CranKy Ducklings
11h 47m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
21h 47m
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
22h 47m
Ladder Legends
1d 2h
BSL
1d 6h
StRyKeR vs rasowy
Artosis vs Aether
JDConan vs OyAji
Hawk vs izu
IPSL
1d 6h
JDConan vs TBD
Aegong vs rasowy
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
1d 20h
Wardi Open
1d 21h
Afreeca Starleague
1d 21h
Bisu vs Ample
Jaedong vs Flash
Monday Night Weeklies
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
Barracks vs Leta
Royal vs Light
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
2 days
RSL Revival
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
The PondCast
4 days
KCM Race Survival
4 days
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Escore
5 days
RSL Revival
6 days
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S2: W3
RSL Revival: Season 4
NationLESS Cup

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
StarCraft2 Community Team League 2026 Spring
WardiTV TLMC #16
Nations Cup 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S2: W4
Acropolis #4
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
2026 GSL S2
RSL Revival: Season 5
2026 GSL S1
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.