EPTSimple Questions, Simple Answers - Page 247
| Forum Index > Brood War Strategy |
|
shall_burn
252 Posts
| ||
|
Freakling
Germany1534 Posts
- ...has a small hitbox, so it can move out of the way more easily - ...is very fast and has instant acceleration (i.e. not hovering), so it can dodge quickly (duh!) - ...has a fast attack and pre-attack animation, so you do not need to stay in one place for long (although this seems less important, since it only needs to be sufficient to get an attack in during the Lurker's minimal attack cooldown) So you may want to try it with a Crackling... I am not sure, whether melee range is actually the same for all melee units, though. | ||
|
RoomOfMush
1296 Posts
On February 19 2016 22:45 Freakling wrote: I am not sure, whether melee range is actually the same for all melee units, though. It always feels to me that the range of DTs is longer then that of other melee units. But that might just be my eyes playing tricks on me. Or maybe the DTs hitbox is slightly bigger? I dont know... | ||
|
Freakling
Germany1534 Posts
| ||
|
LetaBot
Netherlands557 Posts
| ||
|
Probemicro
3708 Posts
On February 20 2016 10:35 LetaBot wrote: If you are going for a siege expand, and a probe builds a pylon on the location of the second depot. How should you react to it ( with the knowledge that zealots are incoming)? send your scout scv to the middle of the map to check for the proxy gate/s. at the same time pull 4-6 scvs ASAP (especially the ones from the gas, if you haven't pull them already) and make them hold position at the ramp with marines behind. your response next depends on what kind of build toss is going.. if its standard forward/proxy 1 gate pressure do not build machine shop at the fac, start vult production and continue to make rines. as the scvs get hit, pull the near injured ones back with mineral walk and replace it with the scv behind. all these will buy enough time for the vult to arrive making your defence much easier. by which point you can bring your scvs back and slap the machine shop on the fact. if its proxy 2gate (scv saw them or you see 2 zeals trying to march up the ramp at once) build a bunker near your cc asap pull more scvs, be prepared to retreat back to the cc as likely you lose your hold on the ramp quickly. no machine shop, continuous rine/vult production, defend with proper micro until bunker finishes. when the opportunity arises sneak vult/s away to the (undefended) toss base. btw nobody does siege expand at the higher levels anymore, you will fall behind as toss gets easy fast 3rd. Terrans usually starts with FD or its variants | ||
|
Jealous
10361 Posts
| ||
|
Scarbo
294 Posts
On February 20 2016 10:35 LetaBot wrote: If you are going for a siege expand, and a probe builds a pylon on the location of the second depot. How should you react to it ( with the knowledge that zealots are incoming)? There are ways to wall and have a backup simcity, mostly consisting of making the first depot in the position you really don't want to get blocked. Learn how to do those. Zealot in the middle arrives at your base at 2m45s (FS). Use this timer to send SCVs to help out the marines, but with a proper simcity you should need only 1, maybe 2. If you see it's a 2gate proxy follow what Probemicro said. Remember that the first zealot will be by himself no matter what (because of how the BO works). Answering to Probemicro: siege expand is great vs 2 gate goon. FD is horrible vs it. Since the build only differs once you get the machine shop you can decide which one you want to go anyway. | ||
|
Probemicro
3708 Posts
On February 20 2016 18:08 Scarbo wrote: Answering to Probemicro: siege expand is great vs 2 gate goon. FD is horrible vs it. Since the build only differs once you get the machine shop you can decide which one you want to go anyway. nobody does 2 gate goon in fish, and if the toss does its very easy to scout (see main/count goons/scv check for proxies/timing for usual 2nd nexus off) and react accordingly by not dumbly pushing. you will not contain the terran for long and you will be worse off with the later expo, unless you decide on some 1base allin build. 2 gate goon is good only on other maps with inversed ramp to main (eg.jade) FD is still the superior choice, it gives you the ability to pressure the toss while expanding safely, yet its flexible to handle any build toss can throw at you early game. It gives you the opportunity to work on early game micro/multitask. siege expand is too passive and less economic. | ||
|
Scarbo
294 Posts
On February 20 2016 18:23 Probemicro wrote: nobody does 2 gate goon in fish, and if the toss does its very easy to scout (see main/count goons/scv check for proxies/timing for usual 2nd nexus off) and react accordingly by not dumbly pushing. you will not contain the terran for long and you will be worse off with the later expo, unless you decide on some 1base allin build. 2 gate goon is good only on other maps with inversed ramp to main (eg.jade) FD is still the superior choice, it gives you the ability to pressure the toss while expanding safely. It gives you the opportunity to work on early game micro/multitask. siege expand is too passive and less economic. I don't think LetaBot is talking about Fish. He's probably talking about his bot anyways. Iccup low levels 2gate is king and it still is prevalent in mid levels. Surely high-lvl it's not but the way you put it sounds like siege-exp is an outdated build and that just not true. Even vs 1gate expand it's still not behind. Also, playing defensively vs 2gate goon is not easy at all. By the time you lay 3 mines the toss already has 5 goons, which can defuse and end the game right there. You're basically gonna lose or be contained until you get siege mode anyway. | ||
|
Probemicro
3708 Posts
On February 20 2016 18:42 Scarbo wrote: I don't think LetaBot is talking about Fish. He's probably talking about his bot anyways. Iccup low levels 2gate is king and it still is prevalent in mid levels. Surely high-lvl it's not but the way you put it sounds like siege-exp is an outdated build and that just not true. Even vs 1gate expand it's still not behind. Also, playing defensively vs 2gate goon is not easy at all. By the time you lay 3 mines the toss already has 5 goons, which can defuse and end the game right there. You're basically gonna lose or be contained until you get siege mode anyway. nobody does either siege expand or 2 gate goons on korea, i am a PvT/TvP aficionado, played a lot of fish melee (though i get the feeling that the ones who play python still do), watched a ton of pro streams, they don't either. yes siege expand may do well against 2 gate goon, but its passive and makes you behind if toss does other things. if i do FD, i have a chance to practice micro/macro and do dmg to toss if he do normal builds (which is most of the time), i just need to change up the build a little and be a lot cautious upon scouting the occasional 2gate goon or funny 1 base stuff. its not the end of the world, you have a ramp, a high ground, scvs and microability for god's sake, stupidity aside terran should not ever die outright to 2 gate goon. so imo FD>siege expand | ||
|
Scarbo
294 Posts
On February 20 2016 18:59 Probemicro wrote: nobody does either siege expand or 2 gate goons on korea, i am a PvT/TvP aficionado, played a lot of fish melee (though i get the feeling that the ones who play python still do), watched a ton of pro streams, they don't either. yes siege expand may do well against 2 gate goon, but its passive and makes you behind if toss does other things. if i do FD, i have a chance to practice micro/macro and do dmg to toss if he do normal builds (which is most of the time), i just need to change up the build a little and be a lot cautious upon scouting the occasional 2gate goon or funny 1 base stuff. its not the end of the world, you have a ramp, a high ground, scvs and microability for god's sake, stupidity aside terran should not ever die outright to 2 gate goon. so imo FD>siege expand Maybe you don't watch him but I remember a couple months ago Mind was basically a siege expand bot. High ground and SCVs help but you're at a big disadvantage when you just invested 100/100 + the time on mines, which can't be used to take the natural back and only to defend yourself. At this point it's basically a delayed siege expand. Like I said you don't have to decide which build you're making unless you scout the toss last so I don't know why you would set your mind on something before you see it. | ||
|
Probemicro
3708 Posts
i "set my mind" on FD because its flexible and good in the current metagame. if u want you can even transition to siege expand once scouted 2gate goon (cancelling mine on machine shop). but if the toss is not i proceed with FD or their variants (1 tank/2 tank/vult first whatever) as usual. siege expand is not a good build to be the standard or to be set in stone with, because once toss goes economic game they will rejoice when they see it. | ||
|
Scarbo
294 Posts
On February 20 2016 19:58 Probemicro wrote: why do people go 14cc? why do they go 1 rax fe? why do one want to set their mind on some build? i "set my mind" on FD because its flexible and good in the current metagame. if u want you can even transition to siege expand once scouted 2gate goon (cancelling mine on machine shop). but if the toss is not i proceed with FD or their variants (1 tank/2 tank/vult first whatever) as usual. siege expand is not a good build to be the standard or to be set in stone with, because once toss goes economic game they will rejoice when they see it. You examples are horrible. both 14cc and rax fe are done before seeing the opponent, and even if you send an early scout and find him in first position you'll still not get any useful info about their build (unless it's 12 nexus). BTW canceling mines to get siege is very different from what you said a few posts ago about not moving out. | ||
|
Probemicro
3708 Posts
On February 20 2016 20:01 Scarbo wrote: You examples are horrible. both 14cc and rax fe are done before seeing the opponent, and even if you send an early scout and find him in first position you'll still not get any useful info about their build (unless it's 12 nexus). BTW canceling mines to get siege is very different from what you said a few posts ago about not moving out. you continuously scout him, you dont just see his base once and returned it to base like a dumb noob. go around outside, predict his first goon to move out and go back in. rinse and repeat. scv die, get a second one out asap. as terran its hugely important to keep tab on protoss, u can somewhat relax the moment you see toss plant his 2nd nexus at the usual time. what? once you see 2gate goon you are not suppose to move out initially anyway lol. cancelling the mine for siege is highlighting the flexibility of the build. | ||
|
Scarbo
294 Posts
On February 20 2016 20:11 Probemicro wrote: you continuously scout him, you dont just see his base once and returned it to base like a dumb noob. go around outside, predict his first goon to move out and go back in. rinse and repeat. scv die, get a second one out asap. as terran its hugely important to keep tab on protoss, u can somewhat relax the moment you see toss plant his 2nd nexus at the usual time. what? once you see 2gate goon you are not suppose to move out initially anyway lol. cancelling the mine for siege is highlighting the flexibility of the build. How continously scouting will allow you to change from 14cc to FD though? You just see 2 gates and press a secret button that changes your build back in time? You understood perfectly what I said. | ||
|
Probemicro
3708 Posts
On February 20 2016 20:17 Scarbo wrote: How continously scouting will allow you to change from 14cc to FD though? You just see 2 gates and press a secret button that changes your build back in time? You understood perfectly what I said. you said "so I don't know why you would set your mind on something before you see it." one does not see anything at the start? so why does one go for a particular build? they go for one that they think gives them the best chance of winning. FD is a good build that handles almost everything, thats why i chose it for general laddering. or you can choose to ahead and do siege expand all day and continue to be mediocre getting behind every economic game because you are scared of random 2 gates. but you are protoss main so you probably don't care. | ||
|
Arronax23
Poland14 Posts
?? | ||
|
shall_burn
252 Posts
| ||
|
shall_burn
252 Posts
Were there cases of ragequit or of pure in-game bm, like offending opponent before leaving? | ||
| ||
