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On September 18 2015 06:58 [[Starlight]] wrote:
The few times when a pro actually has to *guess* which start position to send the lings to, he always seems to guess right... as in this game with Luxury 4-pooling Mind. Is there anything Mind did to give away his position? I can't see anything. And Lux's OL doesn't have sight of Mind's main or nat in time.
It doesn't seem that strange to me. His drone scout eliminates one possibility and he sends the lings cross position because he would expect to see an earlier scv scout from the other base (although Mind happened to not scout that game at all). In other words, while he could've been wrong, it was a reasonable decision.
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On September 23 2015 03:34 f10eqq wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2015 06:58 [[Starlight]] wrote:
The few times when a pro actually has to *guess* which start position to send the lings to, he always seems to guess right... as in this game with Luxury 4-pooling Mind. Is there anything Mind did to give away his position? I can't see anything. And Lux's OL doesn't have sight of Mind's main or nat in time.
It doesn't seem that strange to me. His drone scout eliminates one possibility and he sends the lings cross position because he would expect to see an earlier scv scout from the other base (although Mind happened to not scout that game at all). In other words, while he could've been wrong, it was a reasonable decision.
Oh yeah... standard enemy scout timing as a tell. I completely forgot about that.
So, noodling it out... from near positions, there's a 50% chance the 1st enemy scout would've gone the wrong way and Luxury wouldn't have seen any scout by the time of his rush (and his OL wasn't scouting along any enemy scout path, wouldn't have seen one).
But yes, it's an even higher chance of no-see from cross positions (which sorta makes me want to early cross-scout now just to screw ppl up  ). Playing the odds, you send your rush cross-position.
(although... what about ppl who cross-position scout first to check center map for proxy gates/rax?)
Lux's very logical assumption would've still gotten him in trouble had Mind been at 1 o'clock (OL wasn't there yet at rush-time), but you're right, it makes perfect sense, and it worked out that time.
Damb, love all the subtleties of BW, the little things really matter... just a great design.
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not a strategy question but you know.....
around 2006-2008 there was a tournament between teams or nations, where each team had a bw planet (consisting of 5 maps of that tileset) and they could attack the other teams planet to gain control of it.
anybody remember the name of the tournament, i cant seem to find it.
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Since this has been happening too often for my liking, why do units sometimes refuse to move?
When I'm microing pretty hard and trying to kill a chasing unit for example, sometimes my units stop dead in their tracks and refuse to move for a few seconds.
Anyone knows what's going on or how I can avoid this?
I have a recent replay that can showcase if anyone wants to see it in action.
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Kau
Canada3500 Posts
Sometimes they lock up if you try to move them mid attack (happens a lot with dragoons). Just press s to stop them and they should be able to move again.
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It's because you're telling them to attack a new target right when it moves out of range. If they're firing at the same target as before, they will never freeze. This happens all the time with marines.
Edit: Oh, and the reason it happens is because there's a very short attack animation which happens the first time your unit selects a target, then is skipped in subsequent attacks. To avoid it you can either manually focus a specific unit to kill, or only a click on the ground when you're sure an enemy is in range. If it happens, hit S like Kau said. Just tap s as fast as you can, then issue the next command instantly.
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I see it in bot games all the times. Marines that are going to an attack animation but never shoot because they switch targets mid-animation.
Use the techniques from the posts above me to solve this.
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Is there a micro tournament map out there where you can pick a race and only have to micro units from that race?
And what is the best/most popular micro tournament map in general?
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The most popular map is MicroTournament10.6h or .6n, and yes it lets you pick specific races. Pretty much everyone has the map, but I could send it to you if you want.
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On October 11 2015 04:28 Sero wrote:
The most popular map is MicroTournament10.6h or .6n, and yes it lets you pick specific races. Pretty much everyone has the map, but I could send it to you if you want.
That is exactly what I am looking for. I already got the map from http://sc.nibbits.com .
Didn't know that kovarex, the developer of the BWAPI, made BW maps as well.
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On October 11 2015 08:06 LetaBot wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2015 04:28 Sero wrote:
The most popular map is MicroTournament10.6h or .6n, and yes it lets you pick specific races. Pretty much everyone has the map, but I could send it to you if you want. That is exactly what I am looking for. I already got the map from http://sc.nibbits.com . Didn't know that kovarex, the developer of the BWAPI, made BW maps as well.
The map doesn't seem to have mirror match-ups though. When both select terran you get Terran vs Protoss matches. Is there a micro map that does have mirror matchups?
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On October 12 2015 15:50 Ty2 wrote:
Hey, some guy made a thread that said he had a bot running to record all of the broadcasts of a few select players(hero, effort, ssak, etc.) I can't seem to find that thread.
korhal.info.pl
(i notice its not really working for EffOrt though)
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In the micro tournament level 28, 9 marines (with range and stim) are put up against 12 cracklings. How does the terran win this engagement? Even with millisecond perfect hit and run micro (move when the weapon cooldown is in effect, shoot as soon as there is no cooldown) plenty of cracklings survive.
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are the bot marines capable of precise focus firing, and zero overkill? (6 marine->insta kill 1 ling at every hit)
and if the zerg is doing proper micro (concave and surround before attacking) and not just simple amove, theres not a lot terran can do other than hit and run, avoiding surround for as long as possible
its micro tournament map where either side with better micro (less human errors) wins, not single player micro challenge map
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nice writeup ty2 but honestly you are still mostly raise points from a human player perspective, im not a programmer (apart from some basic stuff) but imo AI do not have of a concept of "posturing" and "peeling" like humans intuitively do. they receive certain variables/stimuli (ling is approaching from E) and react based on what the algorithim churns out for them( initiate stutter step routine1 along W). what happens when human play with them, humans will start to notice that the AI follow certain predictable patterns, humans figure how to take advantage and then abuse it as much as possible for a easy win. letabot is obviously more advanced but there still a lot of room for improvement if it can't ever gain a win in that micro situation
their saving grace is that they are easily capable of some incredible mechanics/micro that humans cannot realistically do (ie. berkeley overmind). perhaps bot marines for instance can be tuned with smart targeting so that none of their shots are wasted unlike regular human control
honestly since we dont know much of the algorithim, letabot should post a vid of that scenario, it would be easier to see and dissect why the bot marines keep losing
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My bot can win the fight against an a-move bot by simple camping in one of the corners. Not sure if this works against human players though.
This is an example of the bot fighting with hit&run (stutter-step in BW I guess) and always targeting the weakest zerling:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ivvuhUP.gif)
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This was just both marines and zerlings attack moving toward each other, with only the marines having some micro implemented in them.
I am going home right now and will be back online 23:00 CEST (2 hour 30 min from now). I can only host from university atm, so if you can host and help test the second and third option that would be great. There is also the option to keep the marines into a corner ( and sometime move them to another corner to prevent camping trigger).
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EPT
