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Simple Questions, Simple Answers - Page 230

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ArmadA[NaS]
Profile Joined January 2014
United States350 Posts
September 22 2015 18:34 GMT
#4581
On September 18 2015 06:58 [[Starlight]] wrote:
The few times when a pro actually has to *guess* which start position to send the lings to, he always seems to guess right... as in this game with Luxury 4-pooling Mind. Is there anything Mind did to give away his position? I can't see anything. And Lux's OL doesn't have sight of Mind's main or nat in time.


It doesn't seem that strange to me. His drone scout eliminates one possibility and he sends the lings cross position because he would expect to see an earlier scv scout from the other base (although Mind happened to not scout that game at all). In other words, while he could've been wrong, it was a reasonable decision.
[[Starlight]]
Profile Joined December 2013
United States1578 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-11 07:48:50
September 22 2015 19:05 GMT
#4582
On September 23 2015 03:34 f10eqq wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 18 2015 06:58 [[Starlight]] wrote:
The few times when a pro actually has to *guess* which start position to send the lings to, he always seems to guess right... as in this game with Luxury 4-pooling Mind. Is there anything Mind did to give away his position? I can't see anything. And Lux's OL doesn't have sight of Mind's main or nat in time.


It doesn't seem that strange to me. His drone scout eliminates one possibility and he sends the lings cross position because he would expect to see an earlier scv scout from the other base (although Mind happened to not scout that game at all).

In other words, while he could've been wrong, it was a reasonable decision.

Oh yeah... standard enemy scout timing as a tell. I completely forgot about that.

So, noodling it out... from near positions, there's a 50% chance the 1st enemy scout would've gone the wrong way and Luxury wouldn't have seen any scout by the time of his rush (and his OL wasn't scouting along any enemy scout path, wouldn't have seen one).

But yes, it's an even higher chance of no-see from cross positions (which sorta makes me want to early cross-scout now just to screw ppl up ). Playing the odds, you send your rush cross-position.

(although... what about ppl who cross-position scout first to check center map for proxy gates/rax?)

Lux's very logical assumption would've still gotten him in trouble had Mind been at 1 o'clock (OL wasn't there yet at rush-time), but you're right, it makes perfect sense, and it worked out that time.

Damb, love all the subtleties of BW, the little things really matter... just a great design.


User was warned for being hilarious
Bakuryu
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Germany1065 Posts
October 04 2015 17:36 GMT
#4583
not a strategy question but you know.....
around 2006-2008 there was a tournament between teams or nations, where each team had a bw planet (consisting of 5 maps of that tileset) and they could attack the other teams planet to gain control of it.
anybody remember the name of the tournament, i cant seem to find it.
B-royal
Profile Joined May 2015
Belgium1330 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-08 22:42:17
October 08 2015 22:41 GMT
#4584
Since this has been happening too often for my liking, why do units sometimes refuse to move?

When I'm microing pretty hard and trying to kill a chasing unit for example, sometimes my units stop dead in their tracks and refuse to move for a few seconds.

Anyone knows what's going on or how I can avoid this?


I have a recent replay that can showcase if anyone wants to see it in action.
new BW-player (~E rank fish) twitch.tv/crispydrone || What plays 500 games a season but can't get better? => http://imgur.com/a/pLzf9 <= ||
Kau *
Profile Joined March 2007
Canada3502 Posts
October 08 2015 22:55 GMT
#4585
Sometimes they lock up if you try to move them mid attack (happens a lot with dragoons). Just press s to stop them and they should be able to move again.
Moderator
Sero
Profile Joined October 2010
United States692 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-09 02:04:39
October 09 2015 01:24 GMT
#4586
It's because you're telling them to attack a new target right when it moves out of range. If they're firing at the same target as before, they will never freeze. This happens all the time with marines.

Edit: Oh, and the reason it happens is because there's a very short attack animation which happens the first time your unit selects a target, then is skipped in subsequent attacks. To avoid it you can either manually focus a specific unit to kill, or only a click on the ground when you're sure an enemy is in range. If it happens, hit S like Kau said. Just tap s as fast as you can, then issue the next command instantly.
<3 FlaSh HiyA Stats HoeJJa
LetaBot
Profile Blog Joined June 2014
Netherlands557 Posts
October 09 2015 03:05 GMT
#4587
I see it in bot games all the times. Marines that are going to an attack animation but never shoot because they switch targets mid-animation.

Use the techniques from the posts above me to solve this.
If you cannot win with 100 apm, win with 100 cpm.
LetaBot
Profile Blog Joined June 2014
Netherlands557 Posts
October 10 2015 11:17 GMT
#4588
Is there a micro tournament map out there where you can pick a race and only have to micro units from that race?

And what is the best/most popular micro tournament map in general?
If you cannot win with 100 apm, win with 100 cpm.
Sero
Profile Joined October 2010
United States692 Posts
October 10 2015 19:28 GMT
#4589
The most popular map is MicroTournament10.6h or .6n, and yes it lets you pick specific races. Pretty much everyone has the map, but I could send it to you if you want.
<3 FlaSh HiyA Stats HoeJJa
LetaBot
Profile Blog Joined June 2014
Netherlands557 Posts
October 10 2015 23:06 GMT
#4590
On October 11 2015 04:28 Sero wrote:
The most popular map is MicroTournament10.6h or .6n, and yes it lets you pick specific races. Pretty much everyone has the map, but I could send it to you if you want.


That is exactly what I am looking for. I already got the map from http://sc.nibbits.com .

Didn't know that kovarex, the developer of the BWAPI, made BW maps as well.
If you cannot win with 100 apm, win with 100 cpm.
LetaBot
Profile Blog Joined June 2014
Netherlands557 Posts
October 11 2015 23:13 GMT
#4591
On October 11 2015 08:06 LetaBot wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 11 2015 04:28 Sero wrote:
The most popular map is MicroTournament10.6h or .6n, and yes it lets you pick specific races. Pretty much everyone has the map, but I could send it to you if you want.


That is exactly what I am looking for. I already got the map from http://sc.nibbits.com .

Didn't know that kovarex, the developer of the BWAPI, made BW maps as well.



The map doesn't seem to have mirror match-ups though. When both select terran you get Terran vs Protoss matches. Is there a micro map that does have mirror matchups?
If you cannot win with 100 apm, win with 100 cpm.
Ty2
Profile Blog Joined March 2013
United States1434 Posts
October 12 2015 06:50 GMT
#4592
--- Nuked ---
Writer
Probemicro
Profile Joined February 2014
3708 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-12 08:47:34
October 12 2015 08:45 GMT
#4593
On October 12 2015 15:50 Ty2 wrote:
Hey, some guy made a thread that said he had a bot running to record all of the broadcasts of a few select players(hero, effort, ssak, etc.) I can't seem to find that thread.


korhal.info.pl
(i notice its not really working for EffOrt though)
LetaBot
Profile Blog Joined June 2014
Netherlands557 Posts
October 19 2015 01:44 GMT
#4594
In the micro tournament level 28, 9 marines (with range and stim) are put up against 12 cracklings. How does the terran win this engagement? Even with millisecond perfect hit and run micro (move when the weapon cooldown is in effect, shoot as soon as there is no cooldown) plenty of cracklings survive.
If you cannot win with 100 apm, win with 100 cpm.
Probemicro
Profile Joined February 2014
3708 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-19 02:19:57
October 19 2015 02:10 GMT
#4595
are the bot marines capable of precise focus firing, and zero overkill? (6 marine->insta kill 1 ling at every hit)

and if the zerg is doing proper micro (concave and surround before attacking) and not just simple amove, theres not a lot terran can do other than hit and run, avoiding surround for as long as possible

its micro tournament map where either side with better micro (less human errors) wins, not single player micro challenge map
Ty2
Profile Blog Joined March 2013
United States1434 Posts
October 19 2015 14:45 GMT
#4596
--- Nuked ---
Writer
Probemicro
Profile Joined February 2014
3708 Posts
October 19 2015 16:04 GMT
#4597
nice writeup ty2 but honestly you are still mostly raise points from a human player perspective, im not a programmer (apart from some basic stuff) but imo AI do not have of a concept of "posturing" and "peeling" like humans intuitively do. they receive certain variables/stimuli (ling is approaching from E) and react based on what the algorithim churns out for them( initiate stutter step routine1 along W). what happens when human play with them, humans will start to notice that the AI follow certain predictable patterns, humans figure how to take advantage and then abuse it as much as possible for a easy win. letabot is obviously more advanced but there still a lot of room for improvement if it can't ever gain a win in that micro situation

their saving grace is that they are easily capable of some incredible mechanics/micro that humans cannot realistically do (ie. berkeley overmind). perhaps bot marines for instance can be tuned with smart targeting so that none of their shots are wasted unlike regular human control

honestly since we dont know much of the algorithim, letabot should post a vid of that scenario, it would be easier to see and dissect why the bot marines keep losing
LetaBot
Profile Blog Joined June 2014
Netherlands557 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-19 17:50:57
October 19 2015 16:31 GMT
#4598
My bot can win the fight against an a-move bot by simple camping in one of the corners. Not sure if this works against human players though.

This is an example of the bot fighting with hit&run (stutter-step in BW I guess) and always targeting the weakest zerling:

[image loading]
If you cannot win with 100 apm, win with 100 cpm.
Ty2
Profile Blog Joined March 2013
United States1434 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-19 18:24:37
October 19 2015 18:16 GMT
#4599
--- Nuked ---
Writer
LetaBot
Profile Blog Joined June 2014
Netherlands557 Posts
October 19 2015 18:24 GMT
#4600
This was just both marines and zerlings attack moving toward each other, with only the marines having some micro implemented in them.

I am going home right now and will be back online 23:00 CEST (2 hour 30 min from now). I can only host from university atm, so if you can host and help test the second and third option that would be great. There is also the option to keep the marines into a corner ( and sometime move them to another corner to prevent camping trigger).
If you cannot win with 100 apm, win with 100 cpm.
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