EPTa) gas steal TvP
b) pylon wall block
sometimes with a gas steal i try and kill the probe with an scv but i cant and it resteals or cancels resteals. whats the correct procedure?
Simple Questions, Simple Answers - Page 188
| Forum Index > Brood War Strategy |
|
himurakenshin
Canada1845 Posts
a) gas steal TvP b) pylon wall block sometimes with a gas steal i try and kill the probe with an scv but i cant and it resteals or cancels resteals. whats the correct procedure? | ||
|
Forcewater
United Kingdom206 Posts
The most economic and modern response is to simply transition into a barracks expansion and mine gas from the other geyser, defending your command centre with a bunker and siege mode. Example games: Flash vs Stork on Benzene Flash vs Movie on Heartbreak Ridge If you wanted to be a little more greedy, you could build the command centre before the barracks: Upmagic vs Perfectman on Match Point It's possible that you don't feel comfortable doing this, so the other main response is to kill the assimilator. The mistake that most players make is to immediately bring a bunch of scvs to attack it. The trick is to first let it finish building, and then bring along 3-4 scvs to kill it. The problem you'll encounter here is the probe rebuilding it as soon as it dies, so make sure you use an scv (and your marine once it finishes) to keep it away from the geyser. It's important that you don't forget to send your scv to search for your opponent and to gather information on what he's doing. If he's going to follow up with 2 gate dragoon pressure, then you'll need to build a bunker and defend with siege mode. If he isn't making dragoons and instead is attacking with zealots and intending to take a faster nexus (i.e. his cybernetics core is late), then you'll want vultures and the spider mine upgrade. In this situation you might consider building an engineering bay to block his nexus. In some cases you can skip the bunker, but if you're unsure then it's best to build it anyway. Example games: Mind vs GeumChi on Destination (replay) History vs Jangbi on Blue Storm (replay) Another response is to build a second barracks. This can help a lot with defending the early units that protoss sends, since you can afford to lose a couple of marines. It's quite flexible, as it's safe vs centre gates and lets you follow up in a number of ways. For instance, you could do a 2 or 3 barracks marine medic timing, or you could simply use the marines to secure a command centre. Another option is to simply do a later 2 factory timing. Example games: Marine medic timing: Casy vs Reach on Requiem (no gas rush in this game but it's the same idea) Economic followup: Flash vs Bisu on Chain Reaction Sea.GGandOI vs NsP_Soo on Blue Storm (replay) 2 fac: Hiya vs Hero[shield] on Destination (replay) A couple of extra points, if you have an scv searching for your opponent you could build a refinery on his geyser (see Iloveoov vs Reach on Namja Iyagi). In all of these variations, be sure to make your zealot-proof simcity and be careful not to lose too many marines before they can jump into a bunker. As for your other question, when you're making a wall you should make the zealot-proof simcity first so that if he blocks the wall with a pylon you'll still have some room to manoeuvre. If you put your supply to the right of your barracks, that will be big enough for a marine to fit through, but not a zealot. Like so. | ||
|
himurakenshin
Canada1845 Posts
| ||
|
Cryoc
Germany912 Posts
| ||
|
puppykiller
United States3137 Posts
| ||
|
evilfatsh1t
Australia8828 Posts
| ||
|
Darkwhite
Norway352 Posts
| ||
|
puppykiller
United States3137 Posts
| ||
|
nigsky
United Kingdom114 Posts
| ||
|
ninazerg
United States7291 Posts
| ||
|
nigsky
United Kingdom114 Posts
On March 07 2014 07:41 ninazerg wrote: If I see one more stupid question about OPTIMAL SATURATION/WORKER COUNT, I am going to literally flip a desk. Either deal with my question or shut the fuck up. If it's stupid say why. | ||
|
traceurling
United States1240 Posts
On March 07 2014 08:41 nigsky wrote: Either deal with my question or shut the fuck up. If it's stupid say why. It's because it's been asked a lot so you could probably find the answer by searching the forum. Anyways just select parts of the mineral line like of the top third, count workers, then rinse and repeat for mid and bot third to get a good count on workers. | ||
|
nigsky
United Kingdom114 Posts
On March 07 2014 09:04 traceurling wrote: It's because it's been asked a lot so you could probably find the answer by searching the forum. Anyways just select parts of the mineral line like of the top third, count workers, then rinse and repeat for mid and bot third to get a good count on workers. I searched quite a bit and couldn't find it. I was using that method already but I hoped there was something more precise. Oh well. | ||
|
icystorage
Jollibee19350 Posts
On March 07 2014 06:12 nigsky wrote: What's the best way to count workers? I know what the optimal base saturation is, but I have no idea how to tell if I'm there or not. Should I just count them as they come out? well the general rule of thumb is never stop making workers. | ||
|
nigsky
United Kingdom114 Posts
On March 07 2014 10:02 icystorage wrote: well the general rule of thumb is never stop making workers. It was more a problem of transferring workers from one base to another without spending as many actions on it as I do now. | ||
|
fold
Australia665 Posts
On March 07 2014 10:03 nigsky wrote: It was more a problem of transferring workers from one base to another without spending as many actions on it as I do now. Watch how pros do it. They'll send about 8 workers to the natural expansion and 12 - 15 to their third. Another thing you can do is get a launcher that lets you see how many workers you have in replays and just take note of when(time/supply) you have the optimal number and you'll know when to stop making them next time. | ||
|
Birdie
New Zealand4438 Posts
On March 07 2014 10:02 icystorage wrote: well the general rule of thumb is never stop making workers. Yeah this is bad advice unless you're D/D- rank. Everyone above should know how many workers they need to achieve optimal army/worker ratio and still be able to produce a lot of stuff. For Terran and Protoss, it's typically around 60. For Zerg it varies depending on the state of the game. For counting workers in the mid/late game when you have too many to box select with one box, just make 2-3 boxes. For example, box select top 3 minerals, mid three minerals, and bottom three minerals, and add them up. When it comes to balancing them between bases, you can guess it roughly when you have clearly too many workers at one base visually. Once they're too hard to tell, just do the three box selects. You can practice this when you spam at the start of the game, just selecting the three groups of minerals patches and counting workers. | ||
|
ninazerg
United States7291 Posts
For example, let's say you're Protoss and are playing PvT A probe has a build-time of 20 game seconds, so you can build 3 from each nexus per game minute, provided that you have sufficient income to continuously produce probes, so you could, in theory, produce 60 workers in about 8-9 minutes. However, you have other buildings to build and units to make, and tons of decisions to make, so you can't manually count each worker. What you need to do instead is find a timing where you simply know you have the correct number of workers, so you can stop producing them. So, if you watch your replays, you can use a plug-in to count workers and then see what the game time is where you reach your 60 probes. Let's say you reach 60 probes by 18 minutes in every replay you watch of your own. Look at what is being built at that time. Which buildings are being warped in at that particular time? 4th nexus? Arbiter tribunal? 5th forge? Whatever you pick (generally, it's going to be around the time you take your 4th nexus, unless you have to add more gates to block some timing attack, or just hate expanding because you're lazy), you have to have some sort of trigger that is a mental reminder that says "Stop building probes". Now, normally, 18 minutes is pretty late to max out your psi in PvT (15 minutes is a good goal to shoot for) unless you're constantly engaged in combat or are getting harassed by vultures, etc., but yeah, it's pretty late. So naturally, you'll find yourself losing a ton of games, and will have to go back and look at your replays and see what went wrong, and for most newb people, it's just the fact that there are long (relatively speaking) intervals between when probes are queued up, when they are sent to mine, and the space between these periods. You don't want your nexus(es) to ever stop producing probes until you reach your goal, ever. EVER. That's why most new players are simply told to continuously produce workers and to really stress that point, because you want to reach your maximum population in a timely manner. I would say to practice this first and foremost - produce workers, non-stop. Second, find a trigger at a specific timing where you know to stop producing workers. Third, keep in mind that any worker cut is very specific to your style of play, and some people have styles where they cut workers, then resume worker production, then cut production again later. So I hope you're fucking happy. | ||
|
Reuental
United States457 Posts
| ||
|
icystorage
Jollibee19350 Posts
| ||
| ||
