EPT3 hat lair -> evo (carapace) -> spire -> mutas + 3rd -> ling speed -> queens nest -> hive + evo (melee) -> ultra den (armor -> speed)
hold off with mass mutaling while teching
Simple Questions, Simple Answers - Page 144
| Forum Index > Brood War Strategy |
|
Dead9
United States4725 Posts
3 hat lair -> evo (carapace) -> spire -> mutas + 3rd -> ling speed -> queens nest -> hive + evo (melee) -> ultra den (armor -> speed) hold off with mass mutaling while teching | ||
|
ninazerg
United States7291 Posts
On May 30 2013 04:06 BroodKingEXE wrote: Is there an Ultralisk rush build, or even a thread for it? For ZvZ or what? | ||
|
arb
Noobville17922 Posts
On May 30 2013 04:06 BroodKingEXE wrote: Is there an Ultralisk rush build, or even a thread for it? you can go the 3hatch muta take a 3rd then go straight for ultras while skipping lurkers and defilers and using just mutas to keep terran in their base in ZvT obv. called crazy zerg | ||
|
Golgotha
Korea (South)8418 Posts
| ||
|
pebble444
Italy2503 Posts
On May 30 2013 18:28 Golgotha wrote: what do you zergs do with the remaining overlords that are left after you covered the entire map. Should I just keep them stacked together or spread them out over my bases? Towards late game or when too many sairs are out, I have a huge stack of ovies in my base and I dont know what to do wit em. Thanks! Give them an ipod with this track on it. It will make things better i swear. | ||
|
puppykiller
United States3137 Posts
| ||
|
arb
Noobville17922 Posts
On May 31 2013 14:49 puppykiller wrote: Is it possible to reset stats on US. east or west? :3 yeah, make a new account | ||
|
Crimson)S(hadow
Philippines1061 Posts
| ||
|
Bakuryu
Germany1065 Posts
| ||
|
saltywet
Hong Kong1316 Posts
On May 30 2013 16:05 arb wrote: you can go the 3hatch muta take a 3rd then go straight for ultras while skipping lurkers and defilers and using just mutas to keep terran in their base in ZvT obv. called crazy zerg for a while i used 3 hatch double evo on two bases, queen's nest down right after lair while skipping both lurkers and mutas, and using mass 1/1 upgraded zerglings to keep terran in base. zergling-only allowed me to save up gas for a number of ultras, double/triple expand after ultras pop. it did work at c-~ levels but how viable is this at higher levels? | ||
|
t0ssboy
Bulgaria681 Posts
| ||
|
sabas123
Netherlands3122 Posts
On June 03 2013 18:09 saltywet wrote: for a while i used 3 hatch double evo on two bases, queen's nest down right after lair while skipping both lurkers and mutas, and using mass 1/1 upgraded zerglings to keep terran in base. zergling-only allowed me to save up gas for a number of ultras, double/triple expand after ultras pop. it did work at c-~ levels but how viable is this at higher levels? i don't think you can mass enough zlings on just 3 hatches to be spending all your money/be save. | ||
|
ninazerg
United States7291 Posts
Don't let the title of the match fool you - Type-B  plays extremely well in this match (besides that icky third hatchery placement) but Flash recognizes what kind of strategy his opponent is doing and just reacts by being patient and safe. Here's what I mean:Crazy Zerg's strengths: - You can kill the fuck out of timing pushes, especially that good ol' 9-minute tank/vessel push. - You get your upgrades and adrenaline glands early, so you can clean up small medic marine pushes early. - You get a very quick Ultralisk Cavern, so you can crush a bigger timing push later. - Mobility advantage over an army that has to siege/unsiege. Note that the emphasis is on killing timing pushes, and Terran has a few: a pre-muta push, a pre-lurker push, and a pre-defiler push. But let's say you take defilers and lurkers out of that equation and the Terran still does those same pushes regardless. Players can be very stubborn about their play-style, so they'll just go ahead and do what they're comfortable with, because when you're familiar with your play, it's much easier to execute and react to different things. However, this leaves the door open for you (presuming you're Zerg) to abuse those timings. I actually have a friend who would get a very early +1 melee attack and burrow, then make a whole bunch of Zerglings and burrow them. I thought it was the dumbest thing ever, but it worked because Terrans would just do their pre-muta push, and then the Zerglings would pop up out of the ground and massacre the poor, unsuspecting soldiers marching across the map. That's how le Crazy Zerg wins games. Let me take a moment to explain why this works. Marines have a very quick attack speed, so in large numbers, they become exponentially more powerful. In smaller numbers, they're pretty flimsy. Also, in small numbers, medics can only heal one unit at a time, so if there are very few medics, a majority of the marines will not be receiving healing benefits from medics. When there are a lot of medics, all the marines at the front of the line are going to be receiving healing, while the marines in the back will remain untouched by melee forces, but will be able to inflict terrible, terrible damage from afar. Crazy Zerg works because it deals with relatively small numbers of marines and medics. When the numbers go up, the zerglings have ultralisks to tank the fire so that they, the zerglings, can rip apart the marines/tanks/medics. This brings us to the weaknesses in Crazy Zerg: - Late Defiler - Does not bode well against very large numbers of infantry So, let's say that our Terran buddy decides to hang back at their base instead of doing timing attacks. Well, normally, you'd just come in with defilers and push into their base. In this case, where you go Crazy Zerg, you'll only be working with three gas geysers, which you'll be using to upgrade two evo chambers and pump ultralisks and make scourge. Without a defiler, you will not be able to attack into the Terran base unless they seriously screw up, but as a rule of thumb, I would recommend NEVER attacking into a Terran base without defilers. This means that if the Terran player decides to play for heavy marine/medic pressure and forgo the tanx, then it becomes very difficult for a Zerg player to defend his/her third expansion without defilers. If we watch the VOD with Flash vs Type-B on Eye of The Storm, you'll notice that Flash opens very old-school, getting two rax, then factory. Flash does move out, but avoids engaging because that huge Muta/Zergling army would eat him alive, and just continues adding on barracks to go SK Terran (Which skips tanks, and is marine/medic/vessels) and once he has a large force, presses forward, but waits patiently, knowing that the Zerg will not have an early defiler. How does he know this? He scans the Zerg base, sees the early evo chamber, and then later, sees the hive unusually early - a pretty good sign that the Zerg is either rushing for defiler or ultralisk, and since the hive is so early that it precedes the normal lurker timing, defilers wouldn't make sense, and therefore, he could safely bet that a Crazy Zerg was imminent. While engaging the top right base, Flash doesn't run in right away. He takes his time and lets the science vessels hit the ultralisks with irradiate. With no defilers, Type-B knows the base is a lost cause and pulls his forces back through the nydus canal, and Flash immediately pounces on that base. Meanwhile, Flash is still making more medics and marines, and now his army is simply too large for Type-B to engage without defilers. Even if Type-B sent 12 ultralisks into that army, they would be chewed up by all that marine fire. Flash does pressure Type-B's front, but by that time, Type-B finally has his defiler mound and manages to hang on for dear life, but Flash moves to the other side and punches out Type-B's third base. gg So, the real question is: would the Crazy Zerg style still be viable today? The answer is probably not. To play out the Crazy Zerg strategy, it's optimal to open with 3 hatcheries on two bases, so you have enough minerals to afford nice things, such as ultralisks. The typical Terran response to this opening (3-hatch muta, that is) is to get one barracks, then take their gas immediately, then build an engineering bay to get their +1 weapon for infantry, then start adding on more barracks. This kind of play negates the heck out of the Crazy Zerg style, because it fields a very hefty marine force quite early on, and by the time you even get to ultralisks, there will just be wayyyyyy too much Terran infantry to simply power through. So, do I recommend doing the Crazy Zerg? Yes and no. If you try doing it the way it was originally developed, you'll get your face stomped with a muddy boot, but I wouldn't say "Don't even try this." because you might be able to modify it and find a way to make it work for you. You might do it with ensnare or something and you shoot up to a 90% winrate, but you'll never know unless you experiment a lot over the course of a lot of games, and you'd need to write down the timings, otherwise, whatever improvements you might make to the opening won't work. Okay, good luck, have fun. | ||
|
UPro-BW
81 Posts
| ||
|
ninazerg
United States7291 Posts
On June 04 2013 05:00 UPro-BW wrote: No one ever stopped the crazy zerg. that game was fixed Your dog was fixed. | ||
|
Miwyfe
England101 Posts
| ||
|
BroodKingEXE
United States829 Posts
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images/c/cf/Protoss.jpg) In the FFE Walling page, it says that a gateway to the left is often impassable, but if it has 15 pixels how is that possible? Are the gaps summed up or is there a special way of calculating the gap. | ||
|
ninazerg
United States7291 Posts
On June 04 2013 07:38 Miwyfe wrote: @ninazerg, please post your big answer in a new thread! It doesn't need it's own thread. A lot of people were wondering about the "Crazy Zerg" style in this thread, so I just gave my opinion here. I didn't want to say "Nah, don't do it, it's bad.", but I wanted to give a more in-depth reason as to what I thought about it. | ||
|
blueblimp
Canada297 Posts
| ||
|
don_kyuhote
3007 Posts
On June 04 2013 14:21 blueblimp wrote: All I have to say about Crazy Zerg is that, speaking as a bad player to another bad player, you are doing yourself a disservice if you skip lurkers. If both sides have weak mechanics, lurkers are relatively stronger (because T can't marine split like a pro, runs into them by accident, etc.) while mutalisks are relatively weaker (because Z can't muta micro like a pro, fails to multitask with them, etc.). I whole heartedly agree with this statement. I like playing against zergs who go crazy zerg rather than standard, because I never have to worry about stop lurkers (or just microing around lurkers in general), sieging/unsieging tanks, laying mines, all the stuff that requires extra hand work suddenly disappears when playing against crazy zerg. Playing sk terran against crazy zerg makes me kinda feel like playing protoss. Just 1a2a3a with t. | ||
| ||
