EPTStrong indicators of +1 5 rax are: no pre-muta timing attack, and about a control group of +1 marines standing outside the terrans nat as your muta's are popping.
Simple Questions, Simple Answers - Page 117
| Forum Index > Brood War Strategy |
|
puppykiller
United States3137 Posts
Strong indicators of +1 5 rax are: no pre-muta timing attack, and about a control group of +1 marines standing outside the terrans nat as your muta's are popping. | ||
|
rauk
United States2228 Posts
i find its really hard to take my third because i can't get my drone out to the third much less my lurkers because he has so much mobility | ||
|
traceurling
United States1240 Posts
On February 26 2013 14:36 rauk wrote: well i kinda want to scout it before his marines are outside my base I think he meant you can see marines outside the terrans natural not yours, every now and then suicide a zergling to see what his marine count is... | ||
|
thezanursic
5498 Posts
| ||
corumjhaelen
France6884 Posts
On February 27 2013 03:15 thezanursic wrote: How do I make SCVs do 30% more dmg I know there is a trick, but spamming Attack move on the opponent or just spam clicking it doesn't work (Can it be due to the lag that the bug doesn't work?) It's a urban legend, it's not possible. | ||
|
thezanursic
5498 Posts
On February 27 2013 03:16 corumjhaelen wrote: It's a urban legend, it's not possible. Sayle... You let me down... xD Maybe Sayle was just trolling and he made it up himself? | ||
|
puppykiller
United States3137 Posts
| ||
|
corumjhaelen
France6884 Posts
Contrary to popular belief mass spamming attack move or right click on another unit does not make the scv attack faster. The attack animation appears faster but the attack rate is still the same. | ||
|
thezanursic
5498 Posts
On February 27 2013 05:31 corumjhaelen wrote: NO. Contrary to popular belief mass spamming attack move or right click on another unit does not make the scv attack faster. The attack animation appears faster but the attack rate is still the same. Okay thanks. | ||
|
UPro-BW
81 Posts
On February 21 2013 07:03 mca64[KDV] wrote: why toss is so gay? User was warned for this post because you can advance to OSL finals with 200 apm | ||
|
puppykiller
United States3137 Posts
| ||
|
traceurling
United States1240 Posts
| ||
|
thezanursic
5498 Posts
And is there a resource that I could use to learn these things better? | ||
|
Birdie
New Zealand4438 Posts
On February 27 2013 07:48 thezanursic wrote: How does the gas timings of the zerg and number of hatches identify what build he is doing in PvZ? And is there a resource that I could use to learn these things better? I'm a noobie here but as I understand it, if he gets his second gas before he puts down a fourth and fifth hatch, then it's 3hatch muta. If he waits till he has a fourth and fifth (or does it at the same time) then it's 5hatch hydra. But I'm a noobie, baku normally posts big walls of text explaining better. | ||
|
traceurling
United States1240 Posts
On February 27 2013 07:48 thezanursic wrote: How does the gas timings of the zerg and number of hatches identify what build he is doing in PvZ? And is there a resource that I could use to learn these things better? Generally I believe 1 gas indicates hydras, 2 gas indicates mutas when they're on 3 bases...there's also stuff like one base getting gas is like 9 pool speed, three hatch hydra gets gas a bit earlier than "standard" 2 gas is 2 base mutas, 3 hatch lair is usually one gas on three hatch...I'm not really good at explaining it you kinda need to learn Zerg builds to know when they get gas for when they want which unit... | ||
|
thezanursic
5498 Posts
On February 27 2013 08:10 traceurling wrote: Generally I believe 1 gas indicates hydras, 2 gas indicates mutas when they're on 3 bases...there's also stuff like one base getting gas is like 9 pool speed, three hatch hydra gets gas a bit earlier than "standard" 2 gas is 2 base mutas, 3 hatch lair is usually one gas on three hatch...I'm not really good at explaining it you kinda need to learn Zerg builds to know when they get gas for when they want which unit... That's all well and good, but in my personal experience that's not specific enough because sometimes you just CAN'T scout a hatchery if it's in your opponents main and you aren't going for a sair build. So I'm asking if I can't scout the opponents build and I can see the natural via probe scouting or harrass when should I be looking for the gas to go down to be sure if it's one or the other? Does that make sense? | ||
|
rauk
United States2228 Posts
relevant things that happen before your sair comes out are hydra busts and ling busts unlikely to bust if they didn't open 9 or overpool speed, because it's much harder to kill and deny probe scout before you are forced to put down hydra den or start making fuckton of lings. in the case that they open pool first with speed to deny scout you just have to ninja a probe out on the map when you see that they're going speed, and move it in to check after your first probe has died and he's camping your choke with 6 lings whether he's making more lings or put down a hydra den or whatever | ||
Harem
United States11393 Posts
On February 27 2013 07:48 thezanursic wrote: How does the gas timings of the zerg and number of hatches identify what build he is doing in PvZ? And is there a resource that I could use to learn these things better? Can only give general advice (and some of the below will be less relevant to your specific question but still stuff to keep in mind when PvZing) as no replay posted and I'll just cover 5/6 hat stuff as other stuff was covered.(You also may want to ignore some of what is posted above as very misleading) Also, note that after sair period, you scout what zerg is doing through speedlot/dt. If you notice on streams/replays, Protoss will just poke with speedzeals or keep a dt outside third/nat to see what is making out of eggs so that Protoss can respond accordingly. 6hatch: can get nat gas extremely late and still flyer cara muta scourge (why a lot of what above is misleading as can still muta off one gas) Also, if they get third gas (and potentially 4th gas) soon after, then they are committing to muta scourge. If third gas is delayed then more likely that they will transition off ~5 muta to either hydra or lurker. If hydra, then followup is 8hat into hive. If lurker, then is generally 6hat into hive or 8hat into hive. Zerg can also 6hat hive right after muta but the general tell for that is double evo sim (no den although some zergs do the single evo version) Also, with some 8hat hive hydra ling defiler lurker, z might not get 4th gas until extremely late. Another potential tell of muta is massive sunk count early on with a huge gaggle of scourge (tends to go with early third/fourth gas timing above). Muta tends to be very delayed with this though. Z can also open straight hydra (or lurker) off it. However, this is way easier to scout as your zealot/dt will see hydras being produced so you can easily get storm in time. Anyways, with hydra, you'll see them go up to 8hat after into hive. Vs 8hat hydra lurk into hive, what you want to do is be a bit more patient, realize how late his hive timing is, get to at least 170 supply maybe with a healthy goon count before you move out. Moving out earlier or with not as much emphasis on the goons can really get you raped. Also, lurker opening tends to go either 6hat hive or 8hat hive. 6hat hive means that he will have crack and defiler really soon so if you fall behind on upgrades or are too goon heavy at a bad timing then you can lose very easily. However, these builds usually let the zerg's hatch count soon explode after hive ie 9-10 hatches making cracklings. Lurker builds also tend to mean that zerg needs 2spore at each base or they never ever have overlords. With 5hat, the first few tells are nat gas timing, sunk timing and if sair sees den/evo. 5hat muta tends to get nat gas and then a sunk while delaying the den/evo a bit longer. Can get third gas right after nat gas if planning on committing with muta otherwise just switching off 5muta like above. Next thing to keep in mind if they 5hat muta is if they add 6th hat or not. If they stay on 5 hat then they are probably switching to 5hat hydra asap off 5hat muta so you are going to need storm really soon and can't overmake archons or you will die. Can also lurk into hive after muta or muta -> lurk -> hydra depending on how zerg wants to play. I also didn't mention this earlier but zerg third placement is a factor as well. For example, if they take close third and muta into 3base lurker hive then what you want to do as Protoss is to have a dt at any potential 4th's they might take (usually another main or a high ground expo as lurker on ramp) and then sair any ovies that happen to come near as their ovie speed is extremely slow which makes their 4th heavily delayed while you are on 3base. Straight 5hat hydra is probably the easiest to scout as sair will see den/evo/nat gas and then hydra production very early. Zerg generally doesn't need a sunken at nat but will get one at third if they time hydras right. The main things to keep in mind here are if they add a 6th hat and how early they add a third gas. The earlier third gas gets added, the faster that they will want to switch to muta or lurker. Also, if do a no star build then your scouting is pretty much relegated to probe/zealot and realize that you want to either 2star or maelstrom after if you don't want to die to muta. As for resources, err just watch fpvods of zergs or replays of good zergs but turn off protoss vision. Just focus on what the zerg does. Playing zvp for a bit can also help your pvz as you will soon realize stuff that you didn't before. I feel like I didn't explain some stuff as well as I could and was all over the place in some aspects so if you need something clarified then please say so. ;; | ||
|
therockmanxx
Peru1174 Posts
Oh silly harem | ||
|
quirinus
Croatia2489 Posts
Generally if you're going for speedlots and zerg has speedlings, you can't scout his base so you can't know the gas count etc. unless you maybe go out with like 3-4 zealots to scout his nat (which can be dangerous). *IF* you somehow scout the number of hatches and gas, you can compare the second gas timing to your core/citadel. I don't know the exact timing (you can check it in some rep), but I think he gets the 2nd gas (lair - for 3 hat muta) just a small bit before your core finishes. If it's earlier (no lair, or you can't scout it) I think it's hydra allin. + Show Spoiler + If you see more hatches and no gas, you obviously know that his tech is late; here he can make more or less drones/units, probably depending on what he sees you doing and other parameters. So vs this I'd do a poke to make him make units/sunkens instead of drones, then fall back and defend a bit. With the poke, if you saw him make drones, he's going for a later attack and you might want to try to push and attack sooner or expand earlier, if you saw him making units, brace for defense and then try to roll him over (and expand) with good tech/defense with a slight eco lead. Extra hatches + gas = less units but faster tech, it's susceptible to either really early attack (+1 speedzeal) or playing defesive and holding off the first wave of new tech units and then rolling him over with your superior economy. That being said, he can go muta on 1 gas as well, it's not as strong, but if it catches you off guard with late cannons you can get into a very bad situation. I'm looking for an old PvZ guide that was really good, but I can't find it. Anyways:  Plus1 Speedzeal (vs. Zerg)Plus1 Zealot/Archon Timing Attack (vs. Zerg)Protoss vs. Zerg GuideProtoss vs. Zerg Timings | ||
| ||
