EPTMacro/micro has little to do with being a good player, but it surely helps!
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Commander{+}
United States2878 Posts
Macro/micro has little to do with being a good player, but it surely helps! | ||
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Schwarzenegger 08
343 Posts
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SoMuchBetter
Australia10606 Posts
On February 27 2004 18:05 Schwarzenegger 08 wrote: leg is the only player whose style i can pick out of a group of other players you havent seen many replays | ||
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Sliggy
Australia797 Posts
1) How do you counter 1 base zerg? Like if I scout a 1 base what should I do? I've seen 1 base terrans, I've seen drops, they both work but they both fail when I try them :o. 2) How do you beat a zerg who masses mutas, then goes hive tech guards? (masses mutas being like 30 mutas) I just got owned by some WGT zerg who went 1 base, then expoed and went mass mutas. kinda sucks to lose to someone like that, but meh :o | ||
Klogon
MURICA15980 Posts
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x[ReaPeR]x
United States3447 Posts
On February 28 2004 19:08 Sliggy wrote: LOL; i have 2 questions for TvZ. 1) How do you counter 1 base zerg? Like if I scout a 1 base what should I do? I've seen 1 base terrans, I've seen drops, they both work but they both fail when I try them :o. 2) How do you beat a zerg who masses mutas, then goes hive tech guards? (masses mutas being like 30 mutas) I just got owned by some WGT zerg who went 1 base, then expoed and went mass mutas. kinda sucks to lose to someone like that, but meh :o Legionnaire might not answer this, but I'll try and help: 1) When Zerg goes 1 Base you must ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS assume that he is going to make 3 Lurkers and a crap load of Zerglings VERY fast. First off, if you went anything other than 2 Rax against a player who has any clue what he's doing you are dead, so just leave. If you have gone 2 Rax (who doesn't?) then it's a matter of style. The two strategies you mentioned are really the only two options, if you can't do them you're screwed. If you wanna go drops go 2 Rax, Fact, Acad, Port, Control Tower and get a dropship. Make sure you get a Bunker around the time your Acadamy finishes, because your Medics will come out about when his Lurkers arrive (remember to research Stim). Remember to keep your Marines back so they don't get owned by Lurkers, their purpose is to kill Zerglings that attack your Bunker, the Bunker is for Lurkers. Also, remember to build a Turret so if he tries to get too far up your Bunker can kill the Lurker without wasting a scan. When your Dropship is done you SHOULD have enough Marines and Medics to defend any attack he attempts without the 7 Marines/1 Medic that you'll load into the Dropship. By the time your Dropships gets to his base he'll either be expanding or trying to expand, and you can give him a really hard time because it will be hard for him to defend. Remember to keep Macroing and Microing or else this strategy simply won't work. One base Terran is pretty much the same, except that you skip the Dropship. Since you are going Two Rax (again, if you aren't leave the game) get a Factory, Engineering Bay, and an Academy in whatever order (since you aren't getting Dropship you can get Academy first if you want). For this strategy though since you don't aren't trying to get Dropships early make a Tank and Seigemode. Remember to build a Turret for the reasons above. If he attacks use the defense methods above, it should be even easier though because you will have a tank soon. Once you have 1 or two tanks you need to start getting a Science Vessel. Also somewhere in here YOU NEED TO GET +1 ATTACK MARINES!!! Wether or not you want 1/1 is your choice, but you NEED +1 attack at least. Once you have your Science Vessel and you should either start building an expansion Command Center or have one building. You should be able to break out with Two control groups of Marines/a few Medics/2-3 Tanks/1 Science Vessel. Gas is critical here, so skimp on Medics as much as you can, this of course means you can't carelessly loose Marines, I would try to use only 3 and maybe four, any more than that and you are wasting gas. Once you break that containment camp in your base a bit longer so you can set up/protect you expansion, also, you should be able to send SCVs out to scout now for any expansions other than his natural. Some general tips, make sure you get your third rax at some point in both of these builds for more Marines. Also, keep up scouting the whole time to see if he tries to go for Hive or something. If he goes Mutas at any point he loses if you scout it, because he won't have enough Lurkers when you break out, but if you're caught off gaurd your dead because he will thin your SCV count by a decent amount. EDIT: One other thing, if you went 1 rax vs One base Zerg and don't want to leave not all hope is lost, I guess. The key is taking advantage of your faster gas and getting Firebats/Tanks quicker. I still think that its best to leave and save yourself the time because it's nearly impossible to have enough Marines to defend unless you are really good. Also remember that there is some info in for each strategy that needs to be used in the other. MORE CRAP TO ADD IN CASE ANYONE READS THIS: FroZ helped someone with this in another topic and he says its possible to defend 1 Base Zerg with 1 rax/1fact. I suck so I can't, but maybe if your Marine control is good you can. Also, keep one Marine Patrolling the edge of your base at all times for drops, if one comes pull bag as few Marines as possible to kill it and don't screw up you micro. Remember that any Lurkers dropped are Lurkers he can't attack your front with. 2) I suck vs this, the key thing is to make sure you scout this so you can start getting cloacked Wraiths (2-3 is usually good). No matter what you do though this is still very hard to beat. Since he will have no ground strength you can patrol around the map with Marines for expansions while keeping enough Anti-Muta defense in your main. I suck vs Gaurd rushes though (as many in this forum know) so really you should try what you think works, although these tips can help. I hope all of that helped ^^. | ||
ToKoreaWithLove
Norway10161 Posts
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YoMeR
United States263 Posts
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x[ReaPeR]x
United States3447 Posts
On February 29 2004 10:27 ToKoreaWithLove wrote: cant you just build 3-4 valks and back them up with some rines vs the mass muta? They work well too, I forgot about them. I just suck vs Gaurd rushes period so I didn't put much into that part. | ||
Liquid`RaSZi
Netherlands2766 Posts
On February 18 2004 18:04 Schwarzenegger 08 wrote: LOL; Reaver/shuttle upgrades in PvP LT? you can die you cocksucking faggot.. neither one of your questions will ever be useful, except for the best ways to kill yourself. | ||
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Sliggy
Australia797 Posts
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SpuniasauR
Australia1500 Posts
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FreeZEternal
Korea (South)3396 Posts
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MineralS[oO]
Canada1 Post
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hellkind26
1 Post
I've played many protoss vs zerg in WGTour. I have 2 strategies i use for zerg. 1. I make 1 gate, gas, then zealot, pylon, cyber, stargate, forge, upgrade +1, then zealot speed upgrade. While my corsair is killing 1~3 overlords, I make only zealot until i get mass zealot with speed/+1 upgraded, then rush him, unless he has mass sunkens. Sometimes, i fail to finihs his base, because of mutals/or zerglings with hydras. What should i do next?? 2. I like to rush with early fast zealot, 9/10 gate, and what do i do if i fail? zerg is already expanding with mass drones, and i went 9/10gate, so has no mineral left. | ||
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FreeZEternal
Korea (South)3396 Posts
for number 2...hmm..i lost 90% of the games when that happened -_-;; cuz zerg always 3hatch hydra -_-; really fast if i fail my 9/10 gate>< | ||
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MaTRiX[SiN]
Sweden1282 Posts
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Legionnaire
Australia4514 Posts
On February 24 2004 12:19 ret wrote: what is the best way to micro your units in PvZ , Goon / Zeal / Temp / obs Vs a Lurker / Scourge contain or a Sunken Lurker Spore colony defense? -_-; LOL #2 (okay i've been really busy working on things at the moment so i've picked a nice easy one for you all to tide me over until the easy times come again and i can waste many hours talking about the wonders of the sexy overlord underbelly!) Once again (as is all things starcraft) it's highly dependant on what you have, ie has the robo even started? is it half done? how many units do you have, which type? etc etc) compared to what they have. So its very hard to write specific killer anti lurker containment strats but i'll write up the main way that it is done along with some of the basics and some ideas that might help you in your endevours. To answer your question. in this situation toss usually already has an exp and 6 or so gates, while zerg has 2-3 exps along with proper containment, with lots of lurkers and 1-2 groups of hydra/lings and or scourge with overlords to pick off the obs. In most situations like this many people tend to make the mistake to use all of their men, and often can not control them all well enough to be truly effective, therefor i give you the answer to your dilemma, the Terato style. Hotkey 1: Dragoons Hotkey 2: Obs (with speed or sight preferable) Hotkey 3: Templars (with storm optional ^_^) With this, its best to attack with your goons with the obs running back and fowards above, and the templars just behind ready to storm any mass hydras or lings that come in. (All of your other men can just sit back and admire the pretty flowers while awaiting you to either break out or to replace wounded/manaless units.) Also dont forget to keep building units while your doing the following, including more observers as you usually lose a couple! The attack: The main key here is to firstly protect your observers from getting attacked, so whenever the hydras run in run them back then quickly storm, or if you see scourge, then keep them running forwards and backwards so that the goons can protect them. Secondly, you must protect your dragoons from dying to the usual mass hydra or zergling, thus keep your stormers close by and as soon as you see them running in, target either the front one (if your quick so that they run all run into it, along with the dragoon fire. Its okay if they run back and you dont storm much as your main goal is killing the lurkers, the other units are just an annoyance.) or the middle (if your slow so that the same thing happens) Don't worry if they push you back the first time as this process usually takes a while, and normally involves a few pushes forwards and backwards. So just take advantage of the backward movements and recycle your units, so if your templars are getting low on juice, replace them with others, also with the dragoons, if one has been hurt replace it with healthy men so that while your busy microing they can recharge for the full breakout. Once you've managed to push the zerg back and the first row or two of lurkers have died, before you decide to do the front on charge, you should suicide an observer just to make sure he hasn't put up 50 rows of lurkers! If not, just group all of your men up and charge out. Make sure you have some templars up close to the front so they dont fall too far back for when you need to storm. When you have engaged the enemy make sure your observers split up so they can cover the remaining area to pick off the last few lurkers, if you can also run zealots past so the following troops get protected. At this point leave your men to fend for themselves and jsut focus completely on storming the groups of men that are coming in. It may take some practice before you get used to controlling the original 3 hotkeys well enough to succeed but stick with it. Other things to note is, a lot of zergs go mass lings to counter the mass dragoons so if you dont see any hydra his most likely doing upgraded crack lings, so counter according (ie stop producing goons when you realize you have enough to break out!) and use your storms to good effect. You have a few choices, either head off and do some expansion killing or try and push up to his main, expansions are usually the safer option, but observers would have told you the easiest position to attack. And finally once you've broken out try and set up another expansion while the zerg is forced to focus on the group of men rampaging across the map. That way if your defeated you still end up with an even stronger position to fight from. (canons and storm for defence to stop the counters!) Now for some extras. Frankly i normally use a hell of a lot of zealots instead of dragoons, normally because i waste so much gas on harass i have none left for goons. So here is some other tips for zealot only warfare. Scenario 1: There will be times when you are on the defensive and you really need to save all your units without any losses, you have very little gas trying to save it for the mighty zerg killing templars. Thus it comes about that the game hinges on you winning the final fight (well not really but it sounds better this way!) Now you have an ob and 3-4-5 speedy zealots vs 3-4-5 lurkers. Now 1 on 1 a zealot is a good match vs a lurker, but as the numbers grow the poor little zeals start dying faster then lemmings. Now a nice little trick is, you rush your zealots out with one slightly ahead and to the side, and run it around the lurkers. This is so that 1 zealot takes all the fire (and since its running AROUND, most of the shots acutally miss) while this happens the other zeals split up slightly and begin attacking (so if he notices they dont all get attacked and die in 1 go) Now if he doesn't notice (thus changing the control of the lurkers) they will keep attacking the 1 zealot that did the run-a-round. Now if you run it back and fowards on the far side of the attack the lurkers will keep shooting but missing and you will end up killing all of the lurkers for zero losses!  Even if he notices, its generally not straight off so you can get a few hits in and since your already attacking and mildly split up you still have a good chance of gaining a victory. I haven't really seen anyone else use this but it is quite a nice move which has saved me a few times. Scenario 2: When its early on and they only have a few lurkers which they did a rush with and a canon forced them back and they are digging nice little holes in preperation for their evil containment antics .If they only have a few lurkers and not many other unts, its usual for you to just have a few speedy zealots. Now (as stated above) depending on what you have it might be best to just wait it out and and get obs or storms to clear a path out) but a favoured strat is to just run your zealots straight past and cut off reinforcements from coming and to annoy them until you get observers, (generally they only have lurkers and lings, if you have ling killer (+1) you can just hit the lings and run through making him follow you around his base with his lurkers buying time etc) this way they can't set up a full containment and also if your zealots live long enough, when the obs arrive they can help to flank the containment lurkers from both sides thus cutting down on the damage received by a great margin. Scenario 3: Its not used very often, mainly because reavers aren't used as much as other units, and also theres much easier ways to deal with the situation, but desperation through adversity is the creator of ingenuity, and there will just be times when you have to do things like this! 1 reaver, 1 other unit, 1 shuttle vs 1 burrowed lurker. Now if you drop the reaver out of range, then fly shuttle to the lurker drop the unit, make the reaver attack the unit then pick up the unit. The splash can hit the lurker without the unit taking damage. Or you can just do it the normal way and run the zealot over and use the splash to kill it the normal way, but thats not quite as sexy! Scenario 4: Scenario 3; reaver --; archon ++; Run the zealot over the top of the pesky lurker and stick it on hold position(make sure its on the exact spot where the lurker is otherwise the only way you will kill the lurker is from it dying of laughter), run the archon up to the zealot and attack the poor hapless zealot. This is normally best in cases where you dont have observers and the lurker is already almost dead from canons, goons, storm etc. Other general tips with zealots vs mass lurker, is to just run them straight past the lurkers and break them all up so that it minimizes the splash damage received. Or more preferrable just surround the group of lurkers and attack, that way the lurkers all attack outwards and only hit 1 line of zealots. I hope that covers most of it. hf | ||
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radiaL
Andorra2690 Posts
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FreeZEternal
Korea (South)3396 Posts
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