EPT[Q]ZvT - 2 hatch muta or 3 hatch muta?
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ajmer
Poland27 Posts
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Neivler
Norway911 Posts
Koreans go more 2 hat, foreigners go more 3 hat. | ||
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n.DieJokes
United States3443 Posts
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Papvin
Denmark610 Posts
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leejas
United States440 Posts
2hatch if you're looking to practice more aggressive style. | ||
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hempLine
Canada63 Posts
The reason why people will go 3hatch muta vs ex: 1raxfe is that if your 2hatch muta does not do good damage then you will be behind. Both are viable builds and you use them in certain situations. | ||
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DefMatrixUltra
Canada1992 Posts
The truth is that 3 hatch play is easier for both the Terran and the Zerg. It takes some pressure off both of you, allows both of you to be a bit more 'adaptable' and allows both players to be less fragile. If you are really good (good macro, good muta micro, good timing), then you can play 2 hatch and it will be a strong play. But if you're learning the matchup, I'd say go for 3 hatch. ---- A little aside, I feel that 3 hatch play might make a comeback since so many Zerg are getting their 2 hatch play stomped (the Terran have figured out the timings, numbers, and so on - so it's not a 'surprise' ). Neither play is strictly better, but I feel that being unpredictable in using both of them, and trying to deny scouting and so on is gonna play a bigger part in the 'metagame'. | ||
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mysticism
Canada124 Posts
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ProoM
Lithuania1741 Posts
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StylishVODs
Sweden5331 Posts
Try to focus on getting to lategame and working on your mechanics. | ||
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ajmer
Poland27 Posts
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Piy
Scotland3152 Posts
3 hatch is a lot more forgiving though. Both totally viable in todays environment, but I do want to stress how mechanically demanding 2 hatch is if you're a slow player. | ||
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Piy
Scotland3152 Posts
On January 23 2010 06:48 ajmer wrote: Okay, thank you all, I think I'll stick to 3 hatch ^^ so maybe just to make it clear, I'll ask about ZvP too: is the standard build orded 3 hatch spire into 5 base hydra, explained in the Liquipedia? It's the most common, but obviously there are alot of other equally viable openings in ZvP. So if by standard you mean most commonly done then yeah, but don't think that that means you can't open lurker or mutalisk. | ||
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rredtooth
5464 Posts
On January 23 2010 05:43 hempLine wrote: what? you're describing the 2 hatch muta all-in build, which is different from standard. just contain the T, harass a bit, grab your third when mutas pop, get lurkers, go to hive, profit. earlier mutalisks doesn't mean all-in. and fyi i'm pretty sure there's a 3 hatch muta all-in timing attack too...2hatch muta is more of a win build, means your going 2hatch muta to win the game with your muta's right then and there (or at least do some big damage), some people even consider it close to being a cheese, 3 hatch muta is to contain the T in his base while your teching up to lurker/defiler. On January 23 2010 05:46 DefMatrixUltra wrote: because 3 hatch muta is so much better at defending/countering against bunker rushes... you know with its lack of ling speed upgrade and all. the third hatch doesn't finish fast enough for it to help. besides, if something goes wrong with your timing early on, your 3 hatch is gonna hit a wall vs. a good Terran player too.The issue with 2 hatch play is that it's very fragile. Flash is showing us this by bunker rushing every game (and doing really well with it). If something goes wrong with your plan early on, your 2 hatch will likely be much weaker. If something goes wrong with your timing early on, your 2 hatch is gonna hit a wall vs. a good Terran player. On January 23 2010 06:49 Piy wrote: 2 hatch muta (hydra den first) handles mech quite well and you can just expand a bunch after that while 2 port just dies against it (turns out wraiths are terrible units, take a long to build, are gas-intensive, and can't defend a natural forcing terran to go off of 1 base for a while). also there are many fairly common builds tailored specifically to counter 3 hatch muta (fantasy, ayumi, sparks maybe, 2 port wraith does well, 2 fact vult runby is harder to deal with) while those countering 2 hatch muta are much rarer (maybe some weird really early sparks). and some people still have difficulty adjusting to the 2 hatch muta timing so that's just another added bonus.You can deal with mech and 2 port pretty well, a bit better than 3 hatch imo, and you can obviously deal with everything else as well. don't overlook 2 hatch muta. it is pure awesomeness. | ||
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rredtooth
5464 Posts
On January 23 2010 06:48 ajmer wrote: it's here. yeah that is pretty much the standard for now. you can learn the all-in builds (3 hatch ling, 2 hatch hydra bust, 2 hatch muta sort of) and 3 hatch muta to mix it up but that's probably the best place to start for zvp.Okay, thank you all, I think I'll stick to 3 hatch ^^ so maybe just to make it clear, I'll ask about ZvP too: is the standard build orded 3 hatch spire into 5 base hydra, explained in the Liquipedia? | ||
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Jakalo
Latvia2350 Posts
On January 23 2010 06:49 Piy wrote: 2 hatch is probably safer if you have good control and mechanics. You can deal with mech and 2 port pretty well, a bit better than 3 hatch imo, and you can obviously deal with everything else as well. 3 hatch is a lot more forgiving though. Both totally viable in todays environment, but I do want to stress how mechanically demanding 2 hatch is if you're a slow player. Also 2 hatch muta is not viable if there is lag, which is factor on Iccup. | ||
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FortuneSyn
1826 Posts
Can you multitask? do you have all ur hatches hotkeyed and can you cycle them in about a second an a half? then go 2hatch its super fun!!! | ||
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MorroW
Sweden3522 Posts
once u got korean muta control u learn 2hatch muta into 3base lurker switch standard play and 3hatch u play if u wanna lose vs good terrans  | ||
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DefMatrixUltra
Canada1992 Posts
On January 23 2010 07:09 redtooth wrote: as a person who's been using 2 hatch builds almost exclusively lately, i have to point out a lot of flaws in this thread. because 3 hatch muta is so much better at defending/countering against bunker rushes... you know with its lack of ling speed upgrade and all. the third hatch doesn't finish fast enough for it to help. besides, if something goes wrong with your timing early on, your 3 hatch is gonna hit a wall vs. a good Terran player too. The issue I was getting is the following: if you get bunker rushed with 2 hatch, you are likely to lose 'lots' of drones. This will set you back by a certain amount, like sending you back in time. You will lose just as many drones when doing 3 hatch (because obviously this happens before the builds form and there's no fundamental difference at that point in the game). However, if you recover from a bunker rush and go into 2 hatch, chances are your timing window (which is so important with 2 hatch) is dead. Going into 3 hatch play, however, softens this blow. Timing is not quite as critical with a 3 hatch since your objective is not necessarily to do damage before some upgrade finishes, it's only to offer up a significant risk to Terran if he tries something (switching tech, moving out with early mnm etc.). Being set back in your timing is a lot more forgiving if you just go 3 hatch. If you get delayed by 5-10 seconds, it's bad, but you can fly up to Terran's bases and keep him honest at the very least. You can waltz right in there, scout his line of turrets, and then leave, your job basically done. You can now get your third because your muta can very likely keep Terran in his base easily. So my point is, yes you are right that a 2 hatch and a 3 hatch are just as vulnerable to a bunker rush, but going into one build after a bunker rush is more dangerous than going into another build after bunker rush. Put more succinctly, 3 hatch absorbs damage more easily because of the nature of the build. | ||
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Severedevil
United States4839 Posts
Although you have to do even more damage when your mutalisk do come out. | ||
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