EPTAlso, because 2hatch games will be shorter(usually) you get more games/time, which means faster improving.
[Q]ZvT - 2 hatch muta or 3 hatch muta? - Page 3
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ruXxar
Norway5669 Posts
Also, because 2hatch games will be shorter(usually) you get more games/time, which means faster improving. | ||
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wut_wut3
United States221 Posts
use scouting drone to gas steal if you dont want your opponent to go mech not that hard to do | ||
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ProoM
Lithuania1741 Posts
On January 25 2010 03:22 ruXxar wrote: Another way to view it is that 2 hatch is gonna put you to the ultimate test. Micro/macro has to be almost perfect for you to pull off, so it's actually gonna help you improve that much faster. Also, because 2hatch games will be shorter(usually) you get more games/time, which means faster improving. :O, so if I 4 pool every game, games will be insanely short, so I will be a pro after a week? | ||
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Biff The Understudy
France8201 Posts
On January 24 2010 06:47 MorroW wrote: dont forget 4. Octzerg 2 Hatch (second hatch in terrans natural base) Wooot? Link to the replay please, it seems I missed something big. | ||
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Warrior Madness
Canada3791 Posts
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ZERG_RUSSIAN
10417 Posts
2 Hatch is a build you use WHEN YOU EXPECT M/M. It allows you to get to lair with enough for 6 mutas faster than the 3 hatch timing and then pump straight mutalisk and overlord while teching lurkers and harassing everything. You spawn 6-8 lurkers and use your group and a half of mutalisks to devastate the T's army and sometimes natural. As you are doing this, you take your third expo and drop 2-3 evo chambers and transition to a more macro-oriented style. 3 Hatch is much stronger against anything that isn't m/m. Expecting vulture harass to wraith harass to vulture drop to gol/tank? 3 hatch. The difference is that your tech is later, but your mass is bigger, even though your unit composition isn't as pure. 3 hatch allows you to improve your economy while you harass, whereas 2 hatch has to build straight units and expand after they have lurkers. You can safely expand first with 3 hatch and get lurkers later. If you're playing against mech, you don't need many mutalisks, just enough to force goliaths--but if they're pumping those anyway, just make 1-1 or 2-2 hydras and flank hard. Your transition to lategame from 3 hatch is usually stronger and a little later. 2 hatch gets a hive before it transitions to lategame, but 3 hatch is already in lategame before it gets a hive. With both of the builds your goal is the same--5 bases with gas and hive tech--but strangely, 2 hatch has relatively more gas to work with. | ||
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kineSiS-
Korea (South)1068 Posts
On January 24 2010 03:18 UFO wrote: Yes but .... Nonetheless what are u gonna do against 8 rax , you r gonna end up taking u r 8-10 drones , chasing 3 marines + scv at some point and loosing 6 at the very least . You can try to sunken up but your eco is fucked similarly. So you lose anyways even if you scout. If you don`t lose - its either because of map when its big or its because the terran fucked up and most often both. Anyways if you take into account the factor that most terrans do terribly fuck up with bunker rush - then 9 drone scout is really a good idea , especially on iccup and can get you very good results. What I wanna point out is that it doesn`t prevent you from losing to bunker rush. It isn`t like if you scout it and do the perfect follow up then you ll win, you win if you do perfect and terran fucks up. With perfect play from both sides - I assume that 8 rax wins against 12 hatch. The reason that isn`t obvious is because perfect or nearly perfect games very rarely happen, even at progaming. Your micro must suck because even against an 8 Rax when he bunker rushes, unless he wants to miss his timing window, the opponent will send his first rine and two scvs... You are a weird theory crafter and not very smart indeed. | ||
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CommanderFluffy
Taiwan1059 Posts
On January 25 2010 04:44 ProoM wrote: :O, so if I 4 pool every game, games will be insanely short, so I will be a pro after a week? No. Why would you even post this crap? I like to play 2 hatch muta in close positions, say 12 o'clock vs 3 o'clock T (edit: on python). Opening pool first is also pretty awesome because it's easier to fight off T bunker rushes at those close positions too. But as other people have said before, you really have to be able to deal damage, without losing mutas, and while macroing. I usually follow up with either: drones and a third if i dont feel like i'm dealing enough damage, bunch of speedlings to just finish game, straight up muta if i feel confident, guards if i've slowed T tech long enough. All in all, i enjoy this build much more because it's just so much more aggressive. | ||
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ZERG_RUSSIAN
10417 Posts
On January 25 2010 10:32 CommanderFluffy wrote: No. Why would you even post this crap? I like to play 2 hatch muta in close positions, say 12 o'clock vs 3 o'clock T (edit: on python). Opening pool first is also pretty awesome because it's easier to fight off T bunker rushes at those close positions too. But as other people have said before, you really have to be able to deal damage, without losing mutas, and while macroing. I usually follow up with either: drones and a third if i dont feel like i'm dealing enough damage, bunch of speedlings to just finish game, straight up muta if i feel confident, guards if i've slowed T tech long enough. All in all, i enjoy this build much more because it's just so much more aggressive. Just to point out, though, pool first is generally not considered 2 hatch muta. We're talking about 12 hatch. | ||
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wut_wut3
United States221 Posts
On January 25 2010 10:58 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote: Just to point out, though, pool first is generally not considered 2 hatch muta. We're talking about 12 hatch. Zeros 2 hatch muta build get pool 1st | ||
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DefMatrixUltra
Canada1992 Posts
I'd say that 3 Hatch play is more suited to learning with mistakes. So you can sort of make progress, and the better you do the timings, the better you plan your build out, the fewer overlords you miss etc., the better your play becomes and you slowly instill some sense of macro and timing into your muscles. However, another way to look at this is what some have hinted at. If you go with 2 Hatch play, you will probably get stomped pretty bad even by people a bit worse than you UNTIL you get a critical combination of a) good muta micro and use and b) simultaneous micro with macro and build execution. This way is interesting because you will just get smacked hard by Terran until you get BOTH reasonable muta micro and good multi-tasking in terms of build management. Both seem to me valid ways to improve. | ||
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0mgVitaminE
United States1278 Posts
On January 25 2010 03:22 ruXxar wrote: Another way to view it is that 2 hatch is gonna put you to the ultimate test. Micro/macro has to be almost perfect for you to pull off, so it's actually gonna help you improve that much faster. Also, because 2hatch games will be shorter(usually) you get more games/time, which means faster improving. Exactly what I was thinking, and quick hive will help me with defiler control. Hope it pays off quick, although most of my learning has shown otherwise :D | ||
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0mgVitaminE
United States1278 Posts
On January 25 2010 03:22 ruXxar wrote: Another way to view it is that 2 hatch is gonna put you to the ultimate test. Micro/macro has to be almost perfect for you to pull off, so it's actually gonna help you improve that much faster. Also, because 2hatch games will be shorter(usually) you get more games/time, which means faster improving. Exactly what I was thinking, and quick hive will help me with defiler control. Hope it pays off quick, although most of my learning has shown otherwise :D | ||
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torm3ntin
Brazil2534 Posts
On January 23 2010 05:46 DefMatrixUltra wrote: A little aside, I feel that 3 hatch play might make a comeback since so many Zerg are getting their 2 hatch play stomped (the Terran have figured out the timings, numbers, and so on - so it's not a 'surprise' ). Neither play is strictly better, but I feel that being unpredictable in using both of them, and trying to deny scouting and so on is gonna play a bigger part in the 'metagame'. i felt that lately...i'm so pissed i'm being cheesed by every terran i play! i'm afraid of even doing 12 pool because they are all rushing me to hell | ||
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YejinYejin
United States1053 Posts
Isn't Fantasy build supposed to hit with vultures in the Z's main before 3hatch muta but after 2hatch? At least liquipedia says that 2hatch muta is a hard counter to fantasy build. I've noticed that, when I play Z's who get a third hatch, I can drop vultures when the spire is still morphing, and score some drone/larvae kills. | ||
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