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Excelsior
United States46 Posts
 For instance, you would be able to target fire with every single unit for perfect efficiency - for example, tanks against zerglings, you could theoretically be able to make sure that each zergling only got hit by one siege blast, reducing wasted tank shots MASSIVELY. There are tons of other things like this that would make it so much fun to try to program the perfect AI for this game, considering how strong it could theoretically be if you could get it to make sound strategic decisions. | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
Unless you're talking about subsequent shots, which is kind of weird since zerglings are either there or dead by then. :x | ||
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EatThePath
United States3943 Posts
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nttea
Sweden4353 Posts
On November 27 2009 16:21 MuffinDude wrote: how? if u have enough medics, then it should be alright. nono, the sunkens would target the marines so that they would die instanty without the medics being able to heal, 2 sunken shots at 1 marine instantly = kill so four sunkens would kill 2 marines per shot, no amount of perfect m&M micro or medics would prevent that. A runby be easily defeated by perfect zergling or drone micro. | ||
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evanthebouncy!
United States12796 Posts
I'm going to assume we have 200 distinct units to control, that's say, 200 population of units which are 1 population each. I'm also going to assume you don't build 100000 overlords of 1000000 cannons or sunk/spore which might also need some control. Starcraft's trigger works by milliseconds, so I'm going to assume that each unit can have an action in every millisecond. Then 200 * 1000 * 60 = 12000000 apm | ||
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evanthebouncy!
United States12796 Posts
take a look, might be worth while | ||
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EatThePath
United States3943 Posts
On November 27 2009 17:27 evanthebouncy! wrote: max apm can be calculated. I'm going to assume we have 200 distinct units to control, that's say, 200 population of units which are 1 population each. I'm also going to assume you don't build 100000 overlords of 1000000 cannons or sunk/spore which might also need some control. Starcraft's trigger works by milliseconds, so I'm going to assume that each unit can have an action in every millisecond. Then 200 * 1000 * 60 = 12000000 apm This is totally legit. Doesn't include buildings for macroing though. But army wise, this. | ||
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randombum
United States2378 Posts
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vRoOk
United States1024 Posts
and his apm is what 310? | ||
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dasanivan
United States532 Posts
On November 27 2009 17:27 evanthebouncy! wrote: max apm can be calculated. I'm going to assume we have 200 distinct units to control, that's say, 200 population of units which are 1 population each. I'm also going to assume you don't build 100000 overlords of 1000000 cannons or sunk/spore which might also need some control. Starcraft's trigger works by milliseconds, so I'm going to assume that each unit can have an action in every millisecond. Then 200 * 1000 * 60 = 12000000 apm wow, the best players have 0.003% the apm needed for perfect starcraft. crazy. | ||
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spinesheath
Germany8679 Posts
On November 27 2009 17:27 evanthebouncy! wrote: max apm can be calculated. I'm going to assume we have 200 distinct units to control, that's say, 200 population of units which are 1 population each. I'm also going to assume you don't build 100000 overlords of 1000000 cannons or sunk/spore which might also need some control. Starcraft's trigger works by milliseconds, so I'm going to assume that each unit can have an action in every millisecond. Then 200 * 1000 * 60 = 12000000 apm You can only issue commands on a per-frame basis, in multiplayer only every 2 frames. So substitute 1000 with 25 or 13. That'll be 3,000,000 then. Too bad that a human can't issue orders for more units than he can see in his current screen position at the current frame plus a few orders for control groups (but those might be quite limited by SC's event buffer). You can't change the screen position during a frame. So the maximum APM a human could actually play with if it was phyiscally possible is much lower. | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10870 Posts
Hydras would be able to pretty much rape M&M once they got a certain mass (have various little Groups of Hydras instakill Marines), it would be like there are no Medics... ? | ||
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spinesheath
Germany8679 Posts
On November 27 2009 19:46 Velr wrote: I think Zerg would get it. Hydras would be able to pretty much rape M&M once they got a certain mass (have various little Groups of Hydras instakill Marines), it would be like there are no Medics... ? A "little" group consists of at least 6 hydras, if not 8. On the same area, terran can fit like 10 marines, which have higher attack rate (stim) and can focus just as well. It's not that simple. | ||
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Zurles
United Kingdom1659 Posts
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HeavOnEarth
United States7087 Posts
i vaguely remember this being false. haven't touched sc in ages though | ||
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ProoM
Lithuania1741 Posts
On November 27 2009 08:38 HeavOnEarth wrote: it would be -Assuming eAPM = APM, wastage = zero -Assuming matchup is ZVT, where T goes bio. Early game building drones/hatch/pool - 20 APM. Fending off SCV harass/micro'ing lings/lair tech - 50 APM. Constant scouting/ling backstab threat/sunken/macro leading up to mutas - 70 APM. One group of muta micro/base management - 90 APM. Two groups of simultaneous muta micro/base management/lurker tech - 400 APM + Jaedong. Running 3rd/delaying T push with lurkling/hive teching/constant muta harass 140 APM. Late game ZVT / too many things to describe - 180 APM. On November 27 2009 08:26 WheelOfTime wrote: Also there is the key stroke response limit, i.e., sc not responding when you smash 5sh6sh7sh8sh9sh too fast and your clicks don't register, so I don't know how that will affect the end results. No there aren't, but there's monitor reaction time (LCD 2-16ms, CRT 0ms, that's why all sc tv games are played with CRT ones ;]) and keyboard reaction time (professional ones have 1ms, non professional 8-50ms). | ||
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foppa
Canada451 Posts
On November 27 2009 09:04 lone_hydra wrote: Watch late game pro games. It is not even near PERFECT micro and macro. Even the best will have around like 800 min in their bank at peak periods of long games. Its like a street fight, you could have the best technique and strategy, but if your opponent is the hulk who only knows how to tackle people, you are still fucked. yes of course you will have 800 minerals at one point. as protoss as some points of the game you can afford 12 gateways. if you have perfect macro, youre minerals SHOULD climb to 1500. | ||
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dangots0ul
United States919 Posts
On November 27 2009 10:14 julealgon wrote: I actually agree with the guy who said 50k apm woult be necessary. It's like imagining every unit being controlled by a single person. As for which race would be strongest. I really assume terran bio here, for the reasons already mentioned. Ghosts would be killer too, locking down every single high treat target against protoss and using nukes constantly while medics use flare on nearby observers. Versus zerg, it would still be though, considering how deadly plague/muta would be (instant kill on a lot of units). In that situation, it would be interesting to have dozens of medics casting restorarion, since they will be a lot less occupied healing marines (they would just dodge most enemy fire) and vessels EMPing the defilers and irradianting queens (broodling suddenly gets good). Also, in great numbers, marines destroy everything with perfect micro, due to them having insane dps and being ranged (meaning most of the time all of them are attacking). Still, the biggest treat here are the mutas... I can't come up with a solution to muta harass. Maybe mass blind would be useful in such a situation. If you think about it also, protoss would be very crazy to fight agains as T. Storms can be dodged, as do scarabs, but maelstrom cannot. If there are tanks, the toss could cast a single disruption web over every single one, and if the corsairs are spread there wouldn't be enough vessels to EMP everything, nor would there be enough ghosts to lockdown. It also starts to get interesting to mind control a vessel and EMP all the medics/ghosts/other vessels in the terran army. For some reason, I just love this discussion. I have it all the time with a friend of mine xD tell me if im wrong, but if absolutely perfect APM.. 1 EMP would never be able to hit a corsair unless it was in a corner or something wierd | ||
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RaptorX
Germany646 Posts
On November 27 2009 16:15 MuffinDude wrote: Perfect medic micro with the marine will be unstoppable! unless you have perfect Maelstrom/Strom micro on the other side...  | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10870 Posts
On November 27 2009 19:50 spinesheath wrote: A "little" group consists of at least 6 hydras, if not 8. On the same area, terran can fit like 10 marines, which have higher attack rate (stim) and can focus just as well. It's not that simple. No it isn't that simple (obviously), but: Whiteout Medics, Marines lose to Hydras (hard). With perfect targeting the Medics become a non factor. Hydra would win hard again? Btw: You could completly forget Reavers, because everyone would be able to block the scarab with his own units :p. | ||
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