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IMHO Idra sholudn't be invited into foregin tourneys b/c he sholud be considered as progamer after spending over year in Korea.
Well, some of u guys are saing that he sholud be normally allowed to participate in foregin turneys because he earned it. But how he earned it ? Not everyone had opportunity to beg Daniel Lee for progaming licence and somehow get it. Look at Nony, how much he needed to prove before going to Korea and he barely got curage in first attept, and Idra? Hahaha.
Idra is acting like spoiled kid that simply miraculously got chance to play with progamers and now is cocky in front of other foregin players that play SC as a hobby not a full time job lol. It's simply not fair, at least with his current attitude...
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people saying IdrA didn't earn his license have not read FakeSteve's epic muffintop of a post on the story of that mysterious license.
personally, IdrA can just do whatever the heck he wants, if he's allowed to these foreign tournaments and he chooses to do so, that's his decision, if he's barred because he has a license and has been hardcore training and is now obviously better, it's not like that's going to make him depressed, he'll play elsewhere.
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
Of course he should be playing in all the foreigner events. Even if he makes A team. Who gives a crap if he rapes everyone. He's earned it.
And you know thats gotta be the real answer, considering I'm the one saying it LOL.
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i could argue either way. it depends on so many things. what you define as amature tournaments, hell what you define as foreigner and everything... imo the dude is Korean now. in the last 2 years he has played enough starcraft to rival anyone in Korea. but also, he wasnt born there. what do you do? i dont really know.
i think its just good that he gets to leave the CJ house a few times a year.
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When Idra was losing games he was ridiculed.
And now probably the same people want to outright ban him now that he is winning stuff?
What if someone if winning everything without Korean training?
Other foreigners should also go to Korea or form teams and train full time if they want to beat Idra.
That's competition.
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On June 30 2009 00:17 Glaucus wrote:
When Idra was losing games he was ridiculed.
And now probably the same people want to outright ban him now that he is winning stuff?
What if someone if winning everything without Korean training?
Other foreigners should also go to Korea or form teams and train full time if they want to beat Idra.
That's competition.
Going to Korea is an opportunity only few gamers get. Idra clearly wasnt the most talented when he gone there, now he's taking the big moneys of the foreign tourneys. A lucky guy. It took 2 years to rise till the top, and by the top i mean only ~5gamers have good chanse against him. 2 years of Korea is 2 year practice with the best.
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So he should be winning now, what's the problem?
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anyone saying he shouldn't compete would be just trying to maintain the status quo
competition is good and would raise the skill level bar and get us a bit closer to the koreans
imagine if when boxer became one of the first sc pros (or the first? i dunno) other koreans would say "he's a pro so he shouldn't play in this tourney"... lol
he should compete even if he were #1 kespa
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On June 30 2009 01:04 LG)Sabbath wrote:
anyone saying he shouldn't compete would be just trying to maintain the status quo
competition is good and would raise the skill level bar and get us a bit closer to the koreans
imagine if when boxer became one of the first sc pros (or the first? i dunno) other koreans would say "he's a pro so he shouldn't play in this tourney"... lol
he should compete even if he were #1 kespa
Your analogy fails, as Boxer would not have "Boxer-league" tournaments to move on to. It's an entirely different situation.
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On June 30 2009 00:17 Glaucus wrote:
What if someone if winning everything without Korean training?
Other foreigners should also go to Korea or form teams and train full time if they want to beat Idra.
That's competition.
>What if someone is winning everything without Korean training?
then still all the other people can identify with him. new players can take this as a pattern and dream to get this sparkle themself and get as good as him one day or fans can dream that one of their compatriots will manage to catch up etc. but not if this guy is in one rare situation that nobody else has or only a few dream to achieve.
>Other foreigners should also go to Korea or form teams and train full time if they want to beat Idra. That's competition.
sure it would be nice to see this. but its doubtful that there will be much opportunities. i think having a foreigner in an korean team will always be the exception. there are just way to much good koreans out there which also can communicate with the rest of the team. so without the "interesting" part its no advantage for them to get more and more foreign bw players when the market is in korea and koreans identify with koreans.
and who is going to sponsor a full time foreigner team outside of it? first there must be way more interest in esports and bw then comes the sponsors and the opportunities to do this. but again on the long run i don`t think it raises the interest when basically one progamer is owning amateurs from everywhere in every tournament without a challenge. maybe only for us people who feel yay usa!
now we are because of sc2 in a transitional period. but talking generally it would be more ideal if you got room for every kind of player. those who dream of playing professionall like in korea and those who do it more like a major hobby but still love the competition. so there should be tournaments for all kind of players like wcg and also tournaments for the majority of people(amateurs).
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On June 30 2009 01:11 Nylan wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2009 01:04 LG)Sabbath wrote:
anyone saying he shouldn't compete would be just trying to maintain the status quo
competition is good and would raise the skill level bar and get us a bit closer to the koreans
imagine if when boxer became one of the first sc pros (or the first? i dunno) other koreans would say "he's a pro so he shouldn't play in this tourney"... lol
he should compete even if he were #1 kespa Your analogy fails, as Boxer would not have "Boxer-league" tournaments to move on to. It's an entirely different situation.
There are no Idra-league tournaments for only nonkoreans either. After all, koreans are banned from non-korean-only tournaments and rankings (duh).
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Well, it seemed pretty simple in my eyes at first, but now its not.
If IdrA is allowed play in foreigner tournaments then other pro B-teamers should be allowed also, maybe they wouldn't bother with any foreigner tournaments anyway but it would certainly be neutral/fair and wouldn't place IdrA in some hybrid korean/foreigner role, alternatively they might only enter into the really big money foreign tournaments?
If that did happen, even if only in the big tournaments, I think it would help the foreigner community because, as Artosis constantly says and I dare anyone to contradict him, the best foreigners are about on a par with mid level B-team pros, and with the occasional big tourney B-teamer turnout it would greatly add to the prestige of such events, greatly enhancing the e sports scene as foereigners have a real, and indeed realistic, incentive to bump themselves up from mid level B team to be able to beat top B teamers.
I do have one question, what is the status of amateur koreans? Are they usually banned too?
And what about pro teams feeder gamers houses like the NAME clan?
Wish I could take my No vote back now and replace it with the muddled "Yes times 100" answer that I have tried to get across above.
Apologies for my newbie ignorance if anything insanely stupid was said above.
EDIT
I don't think IdrA's dominace will persist indefinitely if he is allowed stay in all tournaments, he will improve but he will also peak, in the meantime people will adjust their styles to counter act his style, not necessarily cheesy plays. This will happen because the spotlight is very much on him now, more than it has ever been, people will pour over replays and find weaknesses, they will be able to find ways to beat him without practicing 10 hours a day, that's the nature of competition.
+ Show Spoiler +
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no, he should not play.
quite clear. the only thing that makes him different from the koreans (who we wouldn't want to participate in foreigner tournaments) is his ethnic background and that fact isn't worth shit in starcraft when competing against each other.
anyone who gets progamer training (being locked up in a house all day forced to play vs monsters in starcraft) = out
one could of course discuss if it wouldn't be funny if he didn't reach #1 in every tournament, making excuses and thus giving us all a bit of the o so loved whine&drama. but no..
it would be like with wcg then.. the only interesting thing is spot #3 (#2 in this case) and downwards.
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"Anyone who practices is out" is sort of what that boils down into.
"You can only be so good, and train so much, before you are better than us and should be out"
Idra is becoming like this awesome pro wrestling heel who carries the belt!
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
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Everyone saying that Idra = Random b-team Korean is wrong, and I don't just mean his skin colour. Idra's 1 year of practice does not equal the Starcraft upbringing that many of the Korean players have had. There really isn't any replacement for that.
Some differences include being able to listen to Korean commentators which have been much better in terms of commentary value for many years. With the english commentator scene still in it's infancy there isn't nearly as much knowledge to gain through listening to english casted games. Being able to talk with (in native language) many many more top players, top analysis people (that might not be good players themselves, ie. SDM). What's one of the reasons that Day[9] and Tastless are as good as they are? Having the opportunity to talk freely about starcraft a lot with other high level players.
I could go on but to keep it short I'll reiterate. 1 Year in Korea for Idra is NOT equal to some random Korean progamer, and not just because of the colour of his skin. Idra's 1 year of training probably isn't nearly the same as a Korean speakers 1 year of training.
A possible counterpoint to mine. What if a white kid was born and raised in Korea, what would his placement in the foreigner scene be? I say he should be disallowed from the foreign amateur tournaments (like Koreans are today) if he were a pro-gamer.
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On June 30 2009 00:05 Rekrul wrote:
Of course he should be playing in all the foreigner events. Even if he makes A team. Who gives a crap if he rapes everyone. He's earned it.
And you know thats gotta be the real answer, considering I'm the one saying it LOL.
I totally agree with Rekrul. Idra is a foreigner. He's training harder than most foreigners because he's living in korea. He's playing really well and winning tournaments because of his practice, and yes, extra resources . There's no reason he should be banned simply because he's trains harder and posts results.
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Yes, he should stay.
The better players we have in the foreign community, the more competetive it will be.
If he starts to really dominate, people will have something to aim towards.
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On June 29 2009 23:56 aznanimedude wrote:
people saying IdrA didn't earn his license have not read FakeSteve's epic muffintop of a post on the story of that mysterious license.
personally, IdrA can just do whatever the heck he wants, if he's allowed to these foreign tournaments and he chooses to do so, that's his decision, if he's barred because he has a license and has been hardcore training and is now obviously better, it's not like that's going to make him depressed, he'll play elsewhere.
I haven't seen that post. Can you link us to the thread? Thx.
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I think he should still be able to play in foreign tournaments. If you watched the SC2GG Starleague Finals IdrA vs. Yayba (if you didn't... www.ustream.tv/channel/cholerasc), it was a very close set with a very exciting ending. However, since he has only spent a year in Korea IdrA has not yet began to completely blow away his opponents.
Overall though, he is not a Korean, which technically will make him always a foreigner correct?
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I think if its an amateur tourny, well, he isn't an amateur at the moment, so he shouldn't be able to compete, but if its a foreigner tourny, well, hes still a foreigner.
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