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It has always been my opinion that someone who leaves behind his home and friends deserves a bit of an advantage over the others. We owe him that much.
Back when the TLTournaments were running foreigners in Korea often participated. It adds to the entertainment factor for followers as well as to the quality of the tournament. Is it unfair? I'm not sure, what's stopping other foreigners from doing the same? A lot has been sacrificed that they are unwilling to put up with.
Idra is part of TL. Idra is good for viewers. Idra has left behind a life to pursue a the life of a progamer. He barely even made a TV appearance and you want to deny him from foreign tournaments that just seems way too much of a setback for him. I could understand if he was winning OSL and MSL's left and right, but for him playing foreigner tournaments actually is very important to him. What else does he have to look forward to, team practice? Who knows if people will still choose to go live in Korea if that means we deny them from our tournaments. They don't stand much of a chance over there and are denied participation in the others. Poor deal.
On July 29 2009 19:12 GTR wrote:
they didn't participate as much as idra does comparatively today, because the foreign tournaments back then didn't provide 'good' prizes (TLT was an exception I guess)
Giyom didn't care enough to bother playing them but was definitely invited to foreigner tournaments. Team Liquid was hosting the Team Liquid Invitationals (TL1, 2 and 3) in the period Smuft, Elky and possibly Legionnaire were in Korea and they were invited every time and played most of them (see Liquipedia). All of them also participated in TLT (TL4) I think. These days the prizes of online foreign tournaments are much higher than back then, but even though that might be so, the prestige was still there for everyone to bother participating and practicing for.
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Anyways I'm still unclear. Are Korean progamers allowed or not at these tournaments? If Idra is allowed to play, and those progamers are not, the ONLY difference is their race. Might as well just say "no koreans allowed" or "no pros allowed unless you're white" instead of "amateurs only" because that's what it's become.
I mean, I don't mind it, and actually support both Idra as well as any progamer to play in these tournaments, but don't try dressing up the issue in different ways. All I see is people banning koreans for being korean, not being a "pro", since white man gets to play despite being one.
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On July 29 2009 19:40 psion0011 wrote:
Not sure what you're getting at. There are plenty of Korean progamers who have a license but are delegated to washing dishes for the star players. If he's unhappy pursuing a career in being a pro it's not the amateur community's job to make him feel better by being fodder for him, in my opinion at least.
Anyways I'm still unclear. Are Korean progamers allowed or not at these tournaments? If Idra is allowed to play, and those progamers are not, the ONLY difference is their race. Might as well just say "no koreans allowed" or "no pros allowed unless you're white" instead of "amateurs only" because that's what it's become.
It is about 20 times more accepted and easier in Korea to pursue such a career. Washing dishes or not. You seriously don't see the difference between a Korean playing in a PC bang day in day out and an American kid who leaves everything behind to move to a country where he doesn't speak the language? The Korean will create a social network int he PC bang and make friends he will meet up with online, while he is pursuing a career that is looked up to by a lot of people. The situations are just not the same at all no matter if you argue that it is their choice to do so. So what if it is their choice.
The social structure and acceptance of e-sports in Korea are so enormously different from anywhere else in the world that being Korean is a huge advantage, which is indeed a race issue. It is no coincidence Idra nor any of the foreigners can keep up with the top Koreans anymore after the game is 10 years old. Koreans have lived their whole life in a country where being a progamer is looked up to enough to make it worthwhile. Being there for 3 years does not put you on equals with the players born and raised there anymore. It used to be different when the skill level was lower and inventiveness was more important than mass practice. 3 years would have made a huge difference back then.
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Hes not unbeatable, hes just been on a little winning streak lately.
I really believe players like White Ra, JF, Deska, BRAT_OK could probably win 50% of the time vs him. Esp Brat, he is turning super sayien lately. Best vulture micro of any non korean.
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On July 29 2009 19:40 psion0011 wrote:
Anyways I'm still unclear. Are Korean progamers allowed or not at these tournaments? If Idra is allowed to play, and those progamers are not, the ONLY difference is their race. Might as well just say "no koreans allowed" or "no pros allowed unless you're white" instead of "amateurs only" because that's what it's become.
I mean, I don't mind it, and actually support both Idra as well as any progamer to play in these tournaments, but don't try dressing up the issue in different ways. All I see is people banning koreans for being korean, not being a "pro", since white man gets to play despite being one.
no you fail to understand that IdrA has not lived his whole life or SC career in Korea, in fact Idra does not speak korean.
Foreigners who compete against him are not fodder, they get the opportunity to play against a top level player, which is always a good learning experience. I am very glad he gets a few extra dollar on the side winning these tournaments, I do not know the exact terms of his contract but he probably does not a lot. He has had to pickup and walk into a brand new country whose language, culture and work ethic are completely foreign to him, and have broken players before.
He deserves our support, even though is an ass ingame, and he is doing a lot for the foreigner community although some of you don't realize it.
and fyiy I do not "like" idra, and i sure as hell am not a fan boy, but i respect what he has to go through, and realize he is the only foreigner out there who stands a chance.
hate him all you want for his retarded outbursts and extreme arrogance, but do not bring ignorance and blind hate with you everywhere you post.
edit: On July 29 2009 19:49 Skyze wrote:
Hes not unbeatable, hes just been on a little winning streak lately.
I really believe players like White Ra, JF, Deska, BRAT_OK could probably win 50% of the time vs him. Esp Brat, he is turning super sayien lately. Best vulture micro of any non korean.
it's not a little winning streak, don't kid yourself, jf is partially inactive, and white_ra and Brat_ok would definitely lose way more than 50% against idra, even Ret would lose more than 50% as of now.
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Increase second prize in tournaments :D.
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On July 29 2009 19:48 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2009 19:40 psion0011 wrote:
Not sure what you're getting at. There are plenty of Korean progamers who have a license but are delegated to washing dishes for the star players. If he's unhappy pursuing a career in being a pro it's not the amateur community's job to make him feel better by being fodder for him, in my opinion at least.
Anyways I'm still unclear. Are Korean progamers allowed or not at these tournaments? If Idra is allowed to play, and those progamers are not, the ONLY difference is their race. Might as well just say "no koreans allowed" or "no pros allowed unless you're white" instead of "amateurs only" because that's what it's become. It is about 20 times more accepted and easier in Korea to pursue such a career. Washing dishes or not. You seriously don't see the difference between a Korean playing in a PC bang day in day out and an American kid who leaves everything behind to move to a country where he doesn't speak the language? The Korean will create a social network int he PC bang and make friends he will meet up with online, while he is pursuing a career that is looked up to by a lot of people. The situations are just not the same at all no matter if you argue that it is their choice to do so. So what if it is their choice. The social structure and acceptance of e-sports in Korea are so enormously different from anywhere else in the world that being Korean is a huge advantage, which is indeed a race issue. It is no coincidence Idra nor any of the foreigners can keep up with the top Koreans anymore after the game is 10 years old. Koreans have lived their whole life in a country where being a progamer is looked up to enough to make it worthwhile. Being there for 3 years does not put you on equals with the players born and raised there anymore. It used to be different when the skill level was lower and inventiveness was more important than mass practice. 3 years would have made a huge difference back then.
So it's a problem of skill? Korean progamers are not unbeatable either. We saw plenty of them lose in a Bo1 in the foreigner vs pro series on scforall.
I'm just saying, be consistent in your rules. If you let Idra play (which I support), there is no reason to not let other koreans play. They would also bring perks like getting "the opportunity to play against a top level player", or whatever you guys are saying. I understand the sob story, but what if there was some loser korean progamer who grew up with no friends and never talks to anyone? Should we hear them all out?
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On July 29 2009 19:23 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:It has always been my opinion that someone who leaves behind his home and friends deserves a bit of an advantage over the others. We owe him that much. Back when the TLTournaments were running foreigners in Korea often participated. It adds to the entertainment factor for followers as well as to the quality of the tournament. Is it unfair? I'm not sure, what's stopping other foreigners from doing the same? A lot has been sacrificed that they are unwilling to put up with. Idra is part of TL. Idra is good for viewers. Idra has left behind a life to pursue a the life of a progamer. He barely even made a TV appearance and you want to deny him from foreign tournaments that just seems way too much of a setback for him. I could understand if he was winning OSL and MSL's left and right, but for him playing foreigner tournaments actually is very important to him. What else does he have to look forward to, team practice? Who knows if people will still choose to go live in Korea if that means we deny them from our tournaments. They don't stand much of a chance over there and are denied participation in the others. Poor deal. Show nested quote +On July 29 2009 19:12 GTR wrote:
they didn't participate as much as idra does comparatively today, because the foreign tournaments back then didn't provide 'good' prizes (TLT was an exception I guess) Giyom didn't care enough to bother playing them but was definitely invited to foreigner tournaments. Team Liquid was hosting the Team Liquid Invitationals (TL1, 2 and 3) in the period Smuft, Elky and possibly Legionnaire were in Korea and they were invited every time and played most of them (see Liquipedia). All of them also participated in TLT (TL4) I think. These days the prizes of online foreign tournaments are much higher than back then, but even though that might be so, the prestige was still there for everyone to bother participating and practicing for.
hmm i do agree with some of your points here. It would be kind of harsh if he was booted out of all the foreigner tournaments as he would not be able too look forward to nething bar from practice. However it is still unfair for the ameteurs as idra is a pro and is dominating all of them in the tourneys.
IMO a compromise would be the best way, let idra play some of the foreigner tournaments, jsut not all. Give some of the other foreigner's a chance since he does have a significant advantage over them.
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On July 29 2009 20:09 psion0011 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2009 19:48 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:On July 29 2009 19:40 psion0011 wrote:
Not sure what you're getting at. There are plenty of Korean progamers who have a license but are delegated to washing dishes for the star players. If he's unhappy pursuing a career in being a pro it's not the amateur community's job to make him feel better by being fodder for him, in my opinion at least.
Anyways I'm still unclear. Are Korean progamers allowed or not at these tournaments? If Idra is allowed to play, and those progamers are not, the ONLY difference is their race. Might as well just say "no koreans allowed" or "no pros allowed unless you're white" instead of "amateurs only" because that's what it's become. It is about 20 times more accepted and easier in Korea to pursue such a career. Washing dishes or not. You seriously don't see the difference between a Korean playing in a PC bang day in day out and an American kid who leaves everything behind to move to a country where he doesn't speak the language? The Korean will create a social network int he PC bang and make friends he will meet up with online, while he is pursuing a career that is looked up to by a lot of people. The situations are just not the same at all no matter if you argue that it is their choice to do so. So what if it is their choice. The social structure and acceptance of e-sports in Korea are so enormously different from anywhere else in the world that being Korean is a huge advantage, which is indeed a race issue. It is no coincidence Idra nor any of the foreigners can keep up with the top Koreans anymore after the game is 10 years old. Koreans have lived their whole life in a country where being a progamer is looked up to enough to make it worthwhile. Being there for 3 years does not put you on equals with the players born and raised there anymore. It used to be different when the skill level was lower and inventiveness was more important than mass practice. 3 years would have made a huge difference back then. So it's a problem of skill? Korean progamers are not unbeatable either. We saw plenty of them lose in a Bo1 in the foreigner vs pro series on scforall. I'm just saying, be consistent in your rules. If you let Idra play (which I support), there is no reason to not let other koreans play. They would also bring perks like getting "the opportunity to play against a top level player", or whatever you guys are saying. I understand the sob story, but what if there was some loser korean progamer who grew up with no friends and never talks to anyone? Should we hear them all out?
I would like to point out one word - be consistent in your rules, i mean this whole discussion is kinda irrelevant, because its up to tournament owner (organizer) whom will he let play in his tournament
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first of all we said we allowed Idra to play because he was not Korean so I don't know what you are babbling about.
Secondly if we deem it better for the tournament, for the watchers, for the players to allow Idra to participate we will make an exception. That's how we run things over here we *think things through* and make the best decision based on that. Not based on some mindless consistency that will make things worse. There is no sob story just a matter of fact of how it is to be a foreigner in Korea. It isn't sad and no one needs your pity. It does help them to have tournaments to play in as it helps us to have them participate. If we would have to say rule is x and Idra is the exception then that follows our rules perfectly and consistently. Might not follow yours though but then again this kind of stuff is what we built this website on so I wonder what works better.
So it's a problem of skill? Korean progamers are not unbeatable either. We saw plenty of them lose in a Bo1 in the foreigner vs pro series on scforall.
Are you really that dense? Of course it's a problem of skill. People want to host a tournament for foreigners and if some Korean comes and beats them all with ease that isn't exactly what it was intended for. There are plenty of tournaments filled with Koreans out there and these foreigner tournaments can't compete with them in terms of professionalism, prize money, hype and skill. If you want to continue seeing foreigner tournaments then not opening them up for Koreans is the only way for that to happen.
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On July 29 2009 20:21 johanes wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2009 20:09 psion0011 wrote:On July 29 2009 19:48 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:On July 29 2009 19:40 psion0011 wrote:
Not sure what you're getting at. There are plenty of Korean progamers who have a license but are delegated to washing dishes for the star players. If he's unhappy pursuing a career in being a pro it's not the amateur community's job to make him feel better by being fodder for him, in my opinion at least.
Anyways I'm still unclear. Are Korean progamers allowed or not at these tournaments? If Idra is allowed to play, and those progamers are not, the ONLY difference is their race. Might as well just say "no koreans allowed" or "no pros allowed unless you're white" instead of "amateurs only" because that's what it's become. It is about 20 times more accepted and easier in Korea to pursue such a career. Washing dishes or not. You seriously don't see the difference between a Korean playing in a PC bang day in day out and an American kid who leaves everything behind to move to a country where he doesn't speak the language? The Korean will create a social network int he PC bang and make friends he will meet up with online, while he is pursuing a career that is looked up to by a lot of people. The situations are just not the same at all no matter if you argue that it is their choice to do so. So what if it is their choice. The social structure and acceptance of e-sports in Korea are so enormously different from anywhere else in the world that being Korean is a huge advantage, which is indeed a race issue. It is no coincidence Idra nor any of the foreigners can keep up with the top Koreans anymore after the game is 10 years old. Koreans have lived their whole life in a country where being a progamer is looked up to enough to make it worthwhile. Being there for 3 years does not put you on equals with the players born and raised there anymore. It used to be different when the skill level was lower and inventiveness was more important than mass practice. 3 years would have made a huge difference back then. So it's a problem of skill? Korean progamers are not unbeatable either. We saw plenty of them lose in a Bo1 in the foreigner vs pro series on scforall. I'm just saying, be consistent in your rules. If you let Idra play (which I support), there is no reason to not let other koreans play. They would also bring perks like getting "the opportunity to play against a top level player", or whatever you guys are saying. I understand the sob story, but what if there was some loser korean progamer who grew up with no friends and never talks to anyone? Should we hear them all out? I would like to point out one word - be consistent in your rules, i mean this whole discussion is kinda irrelevant, because its up to tournament owner (organizer) whom will he let play in his tournament
Why is it irrelevant? Kespa runs their stuff however they want but there was still a shitstorm of threads over all the disqualifications. I thought this was a discussion forum for, you know, discussion.
On July 29 2009 20:25 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
Are you really that dense? Of course it's a problem of skill. People want to host a tournament for foreigners and if some Korean comes and beats them all with ease that isn't exactly what it was intended for. There are plenty of tournaments filled with Koreans out there and these foreigner tournaments can't compete with them in terms of professionalism, prize money, hype and skill. If you want to continue seeing foreigner tournaments then not opening them up for Koreans is the only way for that to happen.
Funny you say this because after seeing the blog about Idra's recent results I can't help but feel this is the same deal except with a white guy, minus the professionalism of course. I wonder what the other players have to say on this issue (not a sarcastic comment, I'm just curious)
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AHA!
But that is where you are wrong. KeSPA follows their rules with hardcore consistency exactly the way you like it, and *that* is why they are so bad and causes shitstorms of threads.
Funny you say this because after seeing the blog about Idra's recent results I can't help but feel this is the same deal except with a white guy, minus the professionalism of course. I wonder what the other players have to say on this issue (not a sarcastic comment, I'm just curious)
Ret thinks Idra should be allowed to participate because he is not Korean. Anything else?
Not that I think players should determine what is right and what isn't. Players' voices are always heard and taken into consideration but a player does not always have in mind what is best for a tournament.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On July 29 2009 20:09 psion0011 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2009 19:48 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:On July 29 2009 19:40 psion0011 wrote:
Not sure what you're getting at. There are plenty of Korean progamers who have a license but are delegated to washing dishes for the star players. If he's unhappy pursuing a career in being a pro it's not the amateur community's job to make him feel better by being fodder for him, in my opinion at least.
Anyways I'm still unclear. Are Korean progamers allowed or not at these tournaments? If Idra is allowed to play, and those progamers are not, the ONLY difference is their race. Might as well just say "no koreans allowed" or "no pros allowed unless you're white" instead of "amateurs only" because that's what it's become. It is about 20 times more accepted and easier in Korea to pursue such a career. Washing dishes or not. You seriously don't see the difference between a Korean playing in a PC bang day in day out and an American kid who leaves everything behind to move to a country where he doesn't speak the language? The Korean will create a social network int he PC bang and make friends he will meet up with online, while he is pursuing a career that is looked up to by a lot of people. The situations are just not the same at all no matter if you argue that it is their choice to do so. So what if it is their choice. The social structure and acceptance of e-sports in Korea are so enormously different from anywhere else in the world that being Korean is a huge advantage, which is indeed a race issue. It is no coincidence Idra nor any of the foreigners can keep up with the top Koreans anymore after the game is 10 years old. Koreans have lived their whole life in a country where being a progamer is looked up to enough to make it worthwhile. Being there for 3 years does not put you on equals with the players born and raised there anymore. It used to be different when the skill level was lower and inventiveness was more important than mass practice. 3 years would have made a huge difference back then. So it's a problem of skill? Korean progamers are not unbeatable either. We saw plenty of them lose in a Bo1 in the foreigner vs pro series on scforall. I'm just saying, be consistent in your rules. If you let Idra play (which I support), there is no reason to not let other koreans play. They would also bring perks like getting "the opportunity to play against a top level player", or whatever you guys are saying. I understand the sob story, but what if there was some loser korean progamer who grew up with no friends and never talks to anyone? Should we hear them all out?
Let's put it this way. We can certainly appreciate we're you're coming from on this matter. Indeed, we have discussed this issue numerous times in the staff forums (especially around the time of TSL). The rule for the TSL, which im sure you're referring to, was no Koreans on the grounds there are already numerous tournaments for Koreans to participate in (which foreigners are excluded from). Such examples include the semi-recent West-Clan Leauge (which S.G won, fuck yea!). Even at the amateur level there are tournaments for Koreans and as such we decided, for the TSL, that we would disallow Korean participation. This was a decision purely based on race, well, moreso a decision based on the fact that Koreans are already saturated with tournaments.
Chinese teams are also, strictly speaking, progamers. And yes, they are very very good. They are on-paw with the best foreigners including idra (possibly superior). If we were living in a world where China would cause no lag problems then we would no hesitate including them into our leagues (hence why we initially allowed Chinese participation in the TSL). SC2GG decided to involve the Chinese in their tournament and good on them for doing so. We have excluded them because of the lag problems and the incredible bullshit from both sides which comes bundled with that.
So why do we allow Idra to participate? He is a part of the community, for one. He was raised amongst us and is off taking the plunge in Korea like other have before him. Idra, however, is more determined than most. He went there with little skill and was frequently lost in tournaments. Now he's a fucking powerhouse because he stuck to it. No one complained when Draco was in Korea raping the shit out of everyone.
The only difference between then and now is the sum of money thats up for grabs (and the fact that it's idra, but let's pretend that doesn't matter). While Idra is very good, he is still no where near making the A team (correct me if i'm wrong idra) and is still a lowly peon being payed a meager salary in return for practice. Realistically, he has no tournaments he can participate and have a real chance at winning (e.g. GOM/Starleague qualifiers). He's still mortal. If he were able start making moves into the various tournaments (and see some tournament winnings) then it would be a different story. However, as it stands, he is not currently there. At the end of the day, 1k isn't a huge amount of money and this tournament was more about celebrating great starcraft than giving mass money to the players (although thats always nice too). Since the prize pool is pretty small, and the fact that many other players have looked like they could beat idra (castro, brat_ok etc) it's really not worth excluding a player who is likely to produce some great games just because he's giving it 100% in Korea.
If you don't like it, tough.
Run your own tournament.
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On July 29 2009 20:29 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
AHA!
But that is where you are wrong. KeSPA follows their rules with hardcore consistency exactly the way you like it, and *that* is why they are so bad and causes shitstorms of threads.
True, but the situations are not exactly parallel, since this causing the same amount of drama.
I guess SC2 is almost here anyways and this is the last "hurrah" of foreigner tourneys so there isn't much point arguing after all.
edit; I wasn't actually trying to make anyone change their tournament, just saying what I was thinking out loud on the subject.
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On July 29 2009 20:31 psion0011 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2009 20:29 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
AHA!
But that is where you are wrong. KeSPA follows their rules with hardcore consistency exactly the way you like it, and *that* is why they are so bad and causes shitstorms of threads. True, but the situations are not exactly parallel, since this causing the same amount of drama. I guess SC2 is almost here anyways and this is the last "hurrah" of foreigner tourneys so there isn't much point arguing after all. edit; I wasn't actually trying to make anyone change their tournament, just saying what I was thinking out loud on the subject.
and i for one am glad you did, and in a coherent manner. now you see the other side, take what you will from the information, and form your own opinion.
what irks me is blind rage, and complaining, without investing anytime to ponder the whole situation, or sometimes without reading the tread.. different points of views are what makes any community strive, as long as there is some level of civility and coherence to the exchanges.
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Netherlands13554 Posts
The only reason why this is a discussion is because Idra shows an incredible lack of sportmanship by never respecting the skill of the non-Korean amateurs when he loses games. This is shown in frustrated nerd-rage calling his opponents skillless newbies and not gg-ing.
If he actually showed some class and if he would be liked by the community no-one would deny him to any tournament. Fact of the matter is that he's a pompous asshole and his Starcraft skill or what he accomplishes should not excuse that.
If anything I would not allow him because of the reasons stated above, not because he's officially a pro-gamer. I think the consensus is that he should not be allowed anymore once he joins the A-team, which I think is a fine way of handling it. I think gamers on A-teams get paid salary anyway and he'd be playing Proleague etc. so he wouldn't 'need' to play non-Korean tournaments anymore.
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for the people who don't think idra brings in viewers, look at the (debate) discussion this thread has generated
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On July 29 2009 21:04 Twisted wrote:
The only reason why this is a discussion is because Idra shows an incredible lack of sportmanship by never respecting the skill of the non-Korean amateurs when he loses games. This is shown in frustrated nerd-rage calling his opponents skillless newbies and not gg-ing.
If he actually showed some class and if he would be liked by the community no-one would deny him to any tournament. Fact of the matter is that he's a pompous asshole and his Starcraft skill or what he accomplishes should not excuse that.
If anything I would not allow him because of the reasons stated above, not because he's officially a pro-gamer. I think the consensus is that he should not be allowed anymore once he joins the A-team, which I think is a fine way of handling it. I think gamers on A-teams get paid salary anyway and he'd be playing Proleague etc. so he wouldn't 'need' to play non-Korean tournaments anymore.
I think this is an excellent point.
When legionaire was a fairly strong pro in korea, no one ever even thought of not allowing him to play in the small number of tourniments that were held. In fact it would be seen as absurd to not invite him.
Idra's complete lack of tact and a heavy note of arrogance are probably the only reasons discussions like this are comming up.
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On July 29 2009 20:31 psion0011 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2009 20:29 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
AHA!
But that is where you are wrong. KeSPA follows their rules with hardcore consistency exactly the way you like it, and *that* is why they are so bad and causes shitstorms of threads. True, but the situations are not exactly parallel, since this causing the same amount of drama. I guess SC2 is almost here anyways and this is the last "hurrah" of foreigner tourneys so there isn't much point arguing after all. edit; I wasn't actually trying to make anyone change their tournament, just saying what I was thinking out loud on the subject.
There also isn't much point in arguing because you got completely owned
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On July 29 2009 20:30 Plexa wrote: SC2GG decided to involve the Chinese in their tournament and good on them for doing so.
Not really.. I never came out and said "no chinese" (because I forgot honestly) but I've gone on record a number of times saying I prefer not dealing with the Chinese due to the latency issues, and I'd rather see them excluded from Euroamerican (yes, I think I made that up) leagues, and no Chinese applied for the ladder. Had one applied, it probably would've crossed my mind and I would've said something.
For the record, Artosis MSNed me prior to him and IdrA applying and asked if it was ok, and I said yes. From an organizer's standpoint, it was a no-brainer. IdrA is a high profile figure. He brings in people. Whether people like him and want to see him play, or people want to see him lose and BM someone, when IdrA plays, people tune in. Had I had my streaming shit sorted out, it was a perfect opportunity to draw people in.
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EPT
