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IdrA vs. Foreigners - Page 10

Forum Index > BW General
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meegrean
Profile Joined May 2008
Thailand7699 Posts
July 30 2009 09:24 GMT
#181
Yes.. since he's still a foreigner. He doesn't have the cheating Starcraft gene that all Koreans seem to have.
Brood War loyalist
CaptainPlatypus
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States852 Posts
July 30 2009 09:26 GMT
#182
Skipped reading the entire thread because I'm lazy, but where's the "it's ambiguous and therefore his choice" option?
Plexa
Profile Blog Joined October 2005
Aotearoa39261 Posts
July 30 2009 10:27 GMT
#183
On July 30 2009 18:19 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 29 2009 20:30 Plexa wrote: SC2GG decided to involve the Chinese in their tournament and good on them for doing so.


Not really.. I never came out and said "no chinese" (because I forgot honestly) but I've gone on record a number of times saying I prefer not dealing with the Chinese due to the latency issues, and I'd rather see them excluded from Euroamerican (yes, I think I made that up) leagues, and no Chinese applied for the ladder. Had one applied, it probably would've crossed my mind and I would've said something.

For the record, Artosis MSNed me prior to him and IdrA applying and asked if it was ok, and I said yes. From an organizer's standpoint, it was a no-brainer. IdrA is a high profile figure. He brings in people. Whether people like him and want to see him play, or people want to see him lose and BM someone, when IdrA plays, people tune in. Had I had my streaming shit sorted out, it was a perfect opportunity to draw people in.

I was under the impression that PJ and Never played in SC2GG SL? I may have the wrong tournament here... mightve been ASL? Regardless, some tournaments choose to and some do not.
Administrator~ Spirit will set you free ~
Sadist
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States7328 Posts
July 30 2009 10:56 GMT
#184
quit bitching and play better
How do you go from where you are to where you want to be? I think you have to have an enthusiasm for life. You have to have a dream, a goal and you have to be willing to work for it. Jim Valvano
dhe95
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States1213 Posts
July 30 2009 11:16 GMT
#185
We all know how koreans practice, just continuous repetition. So if you want to beat Idra, get a friend, practice vT builds and just keep doing the same build over and over again, until it's perfect.
Foucault
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Sweden2826 Posts
July 30 2009 12:06 GMT
#186
On July 29 2009 21:04 Twisted wrote:
The only reason why this is a discussion is because Idra shows an incredible lack of sportmanship by never respecting the skill of the non-Korean amateurs when he loses games. This is shown in frustrated nerd-rage calling his opponents skillless newbies and not gg-ing.

If he actually showed some class and if he would be liked by the community no-one would deny him to any tournament. Fact of the matter is that he's a pompous asshole and his Starcraft skill or what he accomplishes should not excuse that.

If anything I would not allow him because of the reasons stated above, not because he's officially a pro-gamer. I think the consensus is that he should not be allowed anymore once he joins the A-team, which I think is a fine way of handling it. I think gamers on A-teams get paid salary anyway and he'd be playing Proleague etc. so he wouldn't 'need' to play non-Korean tournaments anymore.


I agree about Idra being a pompus, annoying asshole and that being the reason that people dislike him and brings up this entire discussion.

However I don't agree about him playing foreign tournaments when he's a pro, because the only difference between him and fellow korean pros is their nationality. Surely koreans grow up with Starcraft but so what? Would we rather have a non-korean owning up foreign leagues than a korean? Seems like it. This is too much about nationality imo; if Idra is allowed in foreign tournaments, everyone below A-team koreans should be able to play too.

I feel like we are participating in creating an unwanted gap between the korean and foreign Starcraft scenes by acting in this manner. Everyone, no matter nationality, should be able to play tournaments unless skill level differences are too big. Idras skill level obviously is very high right now and he wins tournaments left and right, why is he then allowed to play?

I know that deep inside of you there's a humongous set of testicles just waiting to pop out. Let 'em pop bro. //////////////////// AKA JensOfSweden // Lee Yoon Yeol forever.
Carnac
Profile Blog Joined December 2003
Germany / USA16648 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-07-30 12:26:59
July 30 2009 12:26 GMT
#187
There are valid arguments for both sides. For example many sports ban professionals from entering amateur competitions, the same argument can be made here. On the other hand I understand why many people want to see him compete.
ModeratorHi! I'm a .signature *virus*! Copy me into your ~/.signature to help me spread!
wo0py
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
Netherlands922 Posts
July 30 2009 12:36 GMT
#188
I think if you like him, or you like to watch good games you should let Idra play. If you are a ret fanboy or dislike Idra you shouldn't let him play.

I think those things matter more than the rights to play in a tournament. Wouldn't you let a programer play in you tour if he wanted too?
We shouldnt recreate anger of the non-virtual world
Not_A_Notion
Profile Joined May 2009
Ireland441 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-07-30 13:13:27
July 30 2009 13:12 GMT
#189
Well this is surely a question that the organisers of each individual tournament should mull over? A one-size-fits-all approach may be a bit ambitious as the objectives and formats of the tournaments may be different (contrast the Highlander and Valor tourneys, one broadcast the other delivered through replays)

So for anybody who thinks he shouldn't play...ban him from any tournaments you yourselves organize by simply saying you can't have a Kespa pro licence to enter(As indeed Plexa said earlier, just really worth re-iterating), other than that there is not much point to this thread .
+ Show Spoiler +
Right, that's my share of banging my head off of this wall. please hit me if I post again on this thread
A worrying lack of anvils
Klive5ive
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United Kingdom6056 Posts
July 30 2009 13:19 GMT
#190
On July 30 2009 21:26 Carnac wrote:
There are valid arguments for both sides. For example many sports ban professionals from entering amateur competitions, the same argument can be made here. On the other hand I understand why many people want to see him compete.

Except amateurs don't get ANY money.
The amateur golfer who came joint 5th in the British Open made ZERO money purely because he's an amateur.

These tournaments have large prize pools so they aren't "amateur" tournaments.
Foreigner players aren't amateurs they are strictly "semi-professionals".

In any other sport it makes no difference where you train.
Samuel Eto'o can still compete in the African cup of nations, despite the fact he has a clear advantage since he plays in Spain with top class professionals.
Tennis player Andy Murray trained abroad but he can still play in the Davis Cup.

Not only is the "Idra can't play" argument ridiculous on common sense grounds since he brings in the most viewers, it's also ridiculous on logical grounds too.

Here's a brilliant example. Shutai Zhang won the British GO championship 10 years in a row, despite the fact he had trained as a professional in China. Since he has British citizenship he could compete and win the prize money.
Don't hate the player - Hate the game
stk01001
Profile Joined September 2007
United States786 Posts
July 30 2009 13:58 GMT
#191
what's the big deal... despite his "progamer" training he still gets beaten by foreigners regularly. It's not like he's some unbeatable monster who dominates every foreigner tournament he's in..

he's not THAT great of a player, anyone who's that predictable can never be a true force..
a.k.a reLapSe ---
Mykill
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Canada3402 Posts
July 30 2009 14:06 GMT
#192
he can join amateur tourny i guess since he is a "pro"gamer but he's on the B-team.
IF he ever makes it to the A team then he should be banned
[~~The Impossible Leads To Invention~~] CJ Entusman #52 The problem with internet quotations is that they are hard to verify -Abraham Lincoln c.1863
lac29
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States1485 Posts
July 30 2009 14:55 GMT
#193
Will this be a bigger problem if Idra continues to win every foreign tournament he's a part of? He's already on a roll ...

Ppl say he's beatable but if one person starts dominating every foreign tournament and that person is already a pro and already has professional training and already is in Korea ... that wouldn't seem to be fair or good for the community.
Monkeyboi2k3
Profile Joined March 2008
United States175 Posts
July 30 2009 15:12 GMT
#194
it is somewhat unfair because his training in korea has made him almost unbeatable on the foreign scene. He dominates all the foreign tournaments and takes away from the people who dont get the training that he receives
BalliSLife
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
1339 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-07-30 22:24:59
July 30 2009 22:18 GMT
#195
gotta train hard to win tournaments

DUH

plus the only thing i wanna see is a rematch between f91 and idra
Ya well, at least I don't fuck a fleshlight with a condom on and cry at the same time.
Exteray
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States1094 Posts
July 30 2009 22:20 GMT
#196
On June 27 2009 15:27 arsonist wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 27 2009 15:19 Whiplash wrote:
He should until he joins the A team



Fair argument. That being said, would you think it was fair for ANY Korean B-teamer to join?

I just foresee a point in the future where IdrA, even if he's still on the B-team, is going to wreck everyone... and when that happens, what's the point of having foreign tournaments anymore?


The future is the present, my friend.
d(O.o)a
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Canada5066 Posts
July 30 2009 22:42 GMT
#197
If idra were out it would be the same thing except ret would be the one dominating :O
Hi.
Zurles
Profile Joined February 2009
United Kingdom1659 Posts
July 30 2009 23:14 GMT
#198
and before ret-idra, JF was dominating, there's always someone dominating it makes no difference, ban him because he practices more?

and most of you fools were calling him terrible a few months ago.
ambient
Profile Joined May 2009
United States32 Posts
July 30 2009 23:18 GMT
#199
idra is bad, i would 3-0 him easily. he should not be allowed in foreigner tournys
vx70GTOJudgexv
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States3161 Posts
July 30 2009 23:25 GMT
#200
On July 30 2009 19:27 Plexa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 30 2009 18:19 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:
On July 29 2009 20:30 Plexa wrote: SC2GG decided to involve the Chinese in their tournament and good on them for doing so.


Not really.. I never came out and said "no chinese" (because I forgot honestly) but I've gone on record a number of times saying I prefer not dealing with the Chinese due to the latency issues, and I'd rather see them excluded from Euroamerican (yes, I think I made that up) leagues, and no Chinese applied for the ladder. Had one applied, it probably would've crossed my mind and I would've said something.

For the record, Artosis MSNed me prior to him and IdrA applying and asked if it was ok, and I said yes. From an organizer's standpoint, it was a no-brainer. IdrA is a high profile figure. He brings in people. Whether people like him and want to see him play, or people want to see him lose and BM someone, when IdrA plays, people tune in. Had I had my streaming shit sorted out, it was a perfect opportunity to draw people in.

I was under the impression that PJ and Never played in SC2GG SL? I may have the wrong tournament here... mightve been ASL? Regardless, some tournaments choose to and some do not.


Yeah they played in ASL. Artosis allowed them to play in Stamina as well. It all depends on the organizer's preferences.
(-_-) BW for ever. #1 Iris fan.
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