EPTIm all for making rules to prevent such a mishap in the future. But please use some common sense .. jeez..
[Spoilers] The KeSPA Saga : OSL C Group - Page 13
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gameguard
Korea (South)2132 Posts
Im all for making rules to prevent such a mishap in the future. But please use some common sense .. jeez.. | ||
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.risingdragoon
United States3021 Posts
It's harsh. But it's straight forward - don't type except yada yada. It's not convoluted or sly or something that people can't work with. | ||
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Zozma
United States1626 Posts
On May 14 2009 10:41 .risingdragoon wrote: What part of "mistake" are you not getting here? Look, that's how I saw it, so I'm sticking to it. It's harsh. But it's straight forward - don't type except yada yada. It's not convoluted or sly or something that people can't work with. Under this system, no one will intentionally type anything. In other words, the only people who feel the brunt of this stupid rule will be the ones that make an honest mistake under pressured conditions. | ||
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cestatoi
United States97 Posts
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neobowman
Canada3324 Posts
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LunarDestiny
United States4177 Posts
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.risingdragoon
United States3021 Posts
On May 14 2009 10:49 Zozma wrote: What part of "mistake" are you not getting here? Under this system, no one will intentionally type anything. In other words, the only people who feel the brunt of this stupid rule will be the ones that make an honest mistake under pressured conditions. The part where mistake should just be thrown out. 1 mistake per game, 2 for forfeit? Then what's the rule for? How do you call a mistake from intention? Make the mistakes persistent. 1 mistake is a warning, another one within the same season is a forfeit. Typing G and then another G, look at it, if it's correct push enter. If you win you can not even reply like some players do. And ffs, include the korean symbol. If people were held to the same unbelievably low standards as these GG-challenged pros, my god, I'd never pilot. | ||
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Zozma
United States1626 Posts
On May 14 2009 11:25 .risingdragoon wrote: What makes you think rules are sacred? They aren't. Especially dumb ones. Just because what GoRush did was "against the rules", that doesn't make what happened to him right or fair. The part where mistake should just be thrown out. 1 mistake per game, 2 for forfeit? Then what's the rule for? How do you call a mistake from intention? Make the mistakes persistent. 1 mistake is a warning, another one within the same season is a forfeit. Typing G and then another G, look at it, if it's correct push enter. If you win you can not even reply like some players do. And ffs, include the korean symbol. If people were held to the same unbelievably low standards as these GG-challenged pros, my god, I'd never pilot. I don't understand why people think it's impossible to judge case-by-case on the spirit of the law. Did GoRush type a: Because he wanted to make BackHo slip up and gg? Because he wanted to distract BackHo? No. It was because he was checking if he was on english or korean, hoping not to be disqualified again, and then he mistakenly hit the "enter" button. What he did wasn't against the reasons that the rules exist: It was just against the poorly worded letter of the law. | ||
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deathgod6
United States5064 Posts
At first I thought Kespa was cool because they enforced the tournament rules, but this is too much. This shit is lame. :/ | ||
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jeddus
United States832 Posts
I am sad that he was disqualified.  | ||
IntoTheWow
is awesome32282 Posts
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number1gog
United States1081 Posts
On May 14 2009 10:57 neobowman wrote: The worst thing is, on a Korean/English keyboard, g and ㅎ are the exact same key so that's really stupid of Kespa to do this. That's what I don't get. It's not like he went out of his way to break a rule (like a ww or zizi would have been). The rule accidentally got broken because of a setting on the computer. Overly harsh. | ||
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omG.[RaYnE]
Philippines100 Posts
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KingPants
United States54 Posts
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The Storyteller
Singapore2486 Posts
Dear KESPA, I know rules are rules, but the rules currently in place are totally mixed up. Before making any new rules or changing old ones, you should consider whether they fit into one of these three categories: 1. Rules that make sure the game is fair These rules govern actions by players that can influence the outcomes of a game, such as using a bug. In this case, the penalty should be a forfeit, whether the breaking of the rule was intentional or not. This is similar to a handball in football/soccer, where even if a player accidentally touches the ball with his hand, it's still considered a foul because it influences the outcome of the game. 2. Rules that uphold the image of the sport These rules cover things like obscene ceremonies or lack of good manner that give the SC proscene a bad name. Most sporting bodies have these, and the penalty should be a warning, a fine or a temporary ban, depending on the severity of the act. However, the game should not be forfeited because no matter how bad mannered a player is, it's not going to influenece the outcome of the game (not directly, anyway). When John McEnroe flung his racquet around and all, he was fined a lot. However, his matches were not forfeited, because hurling abuse at the umpire does not influence the outcome of the match. Doing things like leaving the game without typing out should fall under this category. 3. Rules that communicate intent These rules cover communication between the player and the referee and/or the opposing player. The whole point of these rules is to communicate intent clearly. For example, what is the accepted signal for typing out, what is the accepted way of requesting a pause. All sports have a set of guidelines for this, however, there is no penalty for breaking them. The reason is simple: if you can't communicate your intent and it doesn't get through to the other party, you penalise yourself. If you want a timeout in basketball and you don't make a proper T sign, the game continues and that is an automatic penalty. All sports are flexible with this rule as well. If intent needs to be communicated verbally, and the guy talking speaks with an accent, it would obviously be silly to penalise him. If he's understandable, he gets what he's asking for.So if a player types ww instead of gg and everyone understands it, there's no point in penalising him. If a player doesn't type "ppp" when he wants a pause, and the ref doesn't understand, then he doesn't get a pause and he penalises himself. If he types something understandable like "I would like to request a pause please", then it can be left up to the ref to decide whether he wants to pretend not to understand or not. Miscommunication is a risk the player just has to take. Right now, the rules are getting mixed up between the 3 categories. For example, a player typing something offensive as he leaves the game falls under category 2, and should not be punished with a warning or a fine. A player typing "ww" or "gg yo" instead of gg clearly falls under category 3, and there's no need to penalise. But under the present rules, EVERYTHING other than gg is treated the same way, which doesn't make sense. The same goes for other rules, obviously. Please KESPA, get this sorted out. SC can't be a sport without proper rules, and the rules now are anything but proper. Obviously, in this case, both "mistakes" come under category 3. Typing "a", especially, was not going to affect the outcome of the game, and he penalised himself by diverting his attention away from his play. | ||
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Jayme
United States5866 Posts
On May 14 2009 11:25 .risingdragoon wrote: The part where mistake should just be thrown out. 1 mistake per game, 2 for forfeit? Then what's the rule for? How do you call a mistake from intention? Make the mistakes persistent. 1 mistake is a warning, another one within the same season is a forfeit. Typing G and then another G, look at it, if it's correct push enter. If you win you can not even reply like some players do. And ffs, include the korean symbol. If people were held to the same unbelievably low standards as these GG-challenged pros, my god, I'd never pilot. So Gorush types the exact Korean equivalent of a "gg" and gets a forfeit loss. That's really reasonable already right? Then in the next game he types "a" to make sure he can use his freaking hotkeys but damn he presses enter by accident and oh my he gets a forfeit loss for typing the letter "a" because... why? Rules aren't supposed to be sacred. Rules are there to make sure the game is played fairly and professionally. Rules are not laws and they should be interpreted on a case by case basis depending on the situation. Fairness is completely irrelevant when the rule in question is lazy and moronic. Every situation is not the same. What you are suggesting is a lazy way to enforce a stupid rule. What you are suggesting is that pros should have 150% typing accuracy when they are blitzing around the keyboard at 250+ apm. Do you know how fast your fingers move when you do something like that?! Yea it's pretty much insane. This rule needs to be revised. | ||
SilverskY
Korea (South)3086 Posts
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CongoJack
Canada417 Posts
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ghostWriter
United States3302 Posts
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FakeSteve[TPR]
Valhalla18444 Posts
On May 14 2009 10:15 .risingdragoon wrote: Heh I'm just repeating the report. He typed a to test it. Instead of deleting it, it came out. He got disqualified. The rule says if unsanctioned text comes out, you're disqualified. Is it harsh? Yeah. But is it fair to both players? Yeah. This whole thing, just like backho/firefist, is all about opinions. And the opinions are always on the side of the players. I'm no lover of Kespa, but I'm still pointing out that it's not fair to them. the rule says its up to the referee to make a decision everyone is pissed off because the rule was stupid when it happened to Leta, but then it was changed to be less stupid, but the same thing happened in an equally stupid situation last night even though the rules have been changed i mean this is just clarification for the thread, risingdragoon can't respond because i banned himfor calling someone a 'remedial kid' and basically saying stupid more than i've said stupid in this here post, but to a bunch of people. mind your manners man, come on | ||
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