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Hey everyone.
I've had StarCraft for some time but I always used to be more interested in UMS maps. Fairly recently I became more interested in playing melees. One of my friends has been attempting to help me get better but to no avail.
I have difficulty with basics in the later game such as keeping worker production up, scouting, pumping units, and teching up. I seem to have issues with multitasking in generally; I can really focus on attacking, but then my production and economy dry up.
I play games with my friend, but he only manages to beat the utter shit out of me with simple strategies such as DT rushes or Reaver drops and I don't learn anything from the games I play with him.
If anyone would be willing to help, I'd be incredibly grateful.
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Try Strategy(forum section below), but POST A REPLAY
on second thought you're better of in Blogs
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Aside from this being in the general forum... provide some reps.
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On December 29 2008 01:54 chiflutz wrote:
Aside from this being in the general forum... provide some reps.
I don't know where it should go, and I dont know how to "provide some reps."
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On December 29 2008 01:56 Shadow-Mage wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2008 01:54 chiflutz wrote:
Aside from this being in the general forum... provide some reps. I don't know where it should go, and I dont know how to "provide some reps."
You upload them and you share the download link.
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Okay... I don't know how to upload them. I'm COMPLETELY new to this site. This is, pretty much, my first time doing anything on the site.
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seems you should get some basic knowledge of the game before you run and ask help in forums. Try the game manual or the single player campaign ;P
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read guides in the strategy section, download some replays from good players. Save your replays and watch what you do wrong, focus on one race and learn some build orders. Play a lot with some players like you (create noobs only games on wherever you play), and remember to enjoy the game. Where do you play?
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On December 29 2008 02:01 Starparty wrote:
seems you should get some basic knowledge of the game before you run and ask help in forums. Try the game manual or the single player campaign ;P
I've done that, I've beat the Original campaign, but Broodwar just can't seem to hold my attention. Not sure why...
On December 29 2008 02:03 malongo wrote:
read guides in the strategy section, download some replays from good players. Save your replays and watch what you do wrong, focus on one race and learn some build orders. Play a lot with some players like you (create noobs only games on wherever you play), and remember to enjoy the game. Where do you play?
I've done all of that. I watch commentary on YouTube and I've learned alot from those. I know what I do wrong, I focus on terran and I know build orders. I just can't do the basic stuff.
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Not too sure about your problem but, again where do you play? can you beat the computer 1v1 on meele? how long do you take? At least that should give a reference.
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His name says enough 
If you want help, you should try the strategy section, memorize some basic BO's or give us some replays so we can givee you tips
Hope this helps
Oh and also, massplay with your friend (if he's any good he'll teach you the basics)
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On December 29 2008 02:14 malongo wrote:
Not too sure about your problem but, again where do you play? can you beat the computer 1v1 on meele? how long do you take? At least that should give a reference.
USEast, and I can beat a comp very easily. It can take me anywhere from 20-40 minutes if I'm not doing some sort of odd rush.
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20-40 minutes vs comp... I think you should first work on that, then proceed to learn more
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My problem isn't knowing stuff. I know how to play. I just can't physically or mentally do it! I can't have my attention on both my attacking group, my factories, and my worker line.
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On December 29 2008 02:43 Shadow-Mage wrote:
My problem isn't knowing stuff. I know how to play. I just can't physically or mentally do it! I can't have my attention on both my attacking group, my factories, and my worker line.
It mostly comes with playing a lot, though if you specifically practice that it'll come faster. Might be best to practice in a no-pressure situation (not vs a person) like BlueIris's training exercise.
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You guys aren't getting it. I KNOW build orders, I CAN do them. It's just everything turns to shit when I have to build my economy, an army, and attack at the same time.
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On December 29 2008 02:43 Shadow-Mage wrote:
My problem isn't knowing stuff. I know how to play. I just can't physically or mentally do it! I can't have my attention on both my attacking group, my factories, and my worker line.
If that is true and you know how to play all you need to do is keep playing...and playing and then play some more and eventually your macro/micro and multitasking will become better.
EDIT: On December 29 2008 02:46 Shadow-Mage wrote:
You guys aren't getting it. I KNOW build orders, I CAN do them. It's just everything turns to shit when I have to build my economy, an army, and attack at the same time.
Take is easy, this attitude is going to get you nowhere. There is no easy way to learning to play late game, nothing we say here is going to make you any better without you practising. I really question your knowledge about the game tho.
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On December 29 2008 02:46 SonuvBob wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2008 02:43 Shadow-Mage wrote:
My problem isn't knowing stuff. I know how to play. I just can't physically or mentally do it! I can't have my attention on both my attacking group, my factories, and my worker line. It mostly comes with playing a lot, though if you specifically practice that it'll come faster. Might be best to practice in a no-pressure situation (not vs a person) like BlueIris's training exercise.
Okay, this is something along the lines of what I need.
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On December 29 2008 02:48 NotSupporting wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2008 02:43 Shadow-Mage wrote:
My problem isn't knowing stuff. I know how to play. I just can't physically or mentally do it! I can't have my attention on both my attacking group, my factories, and my worker line. If that is true and you know how to play all you need to do is keep playing...and playing and then play some more and eventually your macro/micro and multitasking will become better.
The issue is it's not. Atleast not as far as I can see and that just out right pisses me off more than anything else.
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MASS GAME for experience :D
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Hong Kong20321 Posts
well if u cant mentally and physically do it just keep repeating it until u get better at controlling ur hands and mind... or wahtever
-_-
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you will need time and effort(more games) to physically and mentally do it :o
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On December 29 2008 01:49 Shadow-Mage wrote:
Hey everyone.
I've had StarCraft for some time but I always used to be more interested in UMS maps. Fairly recently I became more interested in playing melees. One of my friends has been attempting to help me get better but to no avail.
I have difficulty with basics in the later game such as keeping worker production up, scouting, pumping units, and teching up. I seem to have issues with multitasking in generally; I can really focus on attacking, but then my production and economy dry up.
I play games with my friend, but he only manages to beat the utter shit out of me with simple strategies such as DT rushes or Reaver drops and I don't learn anything from the games I play with him.
If anyone would be willing to help, I'd be incredibly grateful.
There's nothing anyone here can do to help you impruve multitasking... answer is just practice as much as you can, eventually it will come naturally.
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Alright then. Does anyone know of anywhere where I can find people of roughly my skill level to play with?
Oh, and I just beat a computer in roughly 10 minutes. I can post the Replay if anyone wants me to.
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Hey Shadow-Mage.
Everyone is like this when they first start SC out. You will get rolled A LOT because SC's average skill level requires playing playing playing constantly. It's not really something one picks up when they are bored.
Anyhow.
One of the things you can do if you haven't done already is use hotkeys and groups. You can assign buildings to groups as well, so while you are fighting and your eyes are on the battlefield you can press the building's group # and train more units. That's the basics.
You are however better off starting at SCV production. Open up a map and just have two or three bases and train SCVs non stop. When one is finished or near completion order another to be built. As soon as he's made get him mining. Move on from there with assigning individual building orders, etc. Try to do this without having more than one SCV queued up after the current one is about to finish.
Unfortunately as the rest of the people say, it's just time and practice. You'll get used to it and you'll get faster at multitasking too, but you need to play exhaustively.
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On December 29 2008 03:10 Shadow-Mage wrote:
Alright then. Does anyone know of anywhere where I can find people of roughly my skill level to play with?
Oh, and I just beat a computer in roughly 10 minutes. I can post the Replay if anyone wants me to.
ICCup D/D- level games, and isn't there some TL.net practice group?
edit: You're American and I don't play this game too much so time zones are probably fucked or I would offer to mass game with you so you get better mechanics for your builds. I think it's just a matter of improving your mechanics through mass playing, whether with a friend or on ICCUP (or even single player, NonY style hahah)
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On December 29 2008 02:16 Shadow-Mage wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2008 02:14 malongo wrote:
Not too sure about your problem but, again where do you play? can you beat the computer 1v1 on meele? how long do you take? At least that should give a reference. USEast, and I can beat a comp very easily. It can take me anywhere from 20-40 minutes if I'm not doing some sort of odd rush.
Cute! work on that, the broodwar ai is enough to begin your trainning. work hard on a Bo against it and beat it on 10 min no rush, or 14 Max army.
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On December 29 2008 03:10 Shadow-Mage wrote:
Alright then. Does anyone know of anywhere where I can find people of roughly my skill level to play with?
Oh, and I just beat a computer in roughly 10 minutes. I can post the Replay if anyone wants me to.
Yeah go to iccup but prepare to get rapedddd. I got out of d- but when you start playing high level d like 1500+. They're good but of course this is coming from a D protoss player.
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im on iccup right now, op irc is the practice group.
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My SCV production actually has gotten quite good from when I first started and that's not really an issue. Generally I have more resources than I know what to do with. I'll try putting up two of the Vs comps I just did up somewhere. They will probably give a good insight into my current ability.
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I find that nintu's fpvods on youtube are helpful to know how good players think. he's about b- level.
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shadow-mage, what are your hotkeys like? try changing your hotkeys to something like 1-3 army, 4-7 factories, 8-0 comsat scan or command center. That way, while you are focusing on the battle, you can simply press 4t 5t 6v 7v to build units in your factories.
and as everyone else has said....it just takes lots of practice.
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You start by relaxing, trying to breathe through at least a 15 minute game. If you`re experiencing technical difficulties you should focus inside yourself and find what is blocking you
Some thoughts:
- you have a weak character and you tend to be a bit of a gentleman which is not acceptable while playing competitive
- you need to unleash the beast and start playing no matter the results, as the people told you above - you need experience, rookie.
Getting some things clear for yourself.
1st - emotional player who games for the fun of it with no ambition to achieve greatness, you can play all you want in the public rooms for that matter and you don`t need this community.
2nd - the strategy guy who thinks in terms of timing, micro, macro, mechanics and then a nice game plan considering races, maps, locations and all that stuff involving decision making until you reach a comfortable level to have fun with it. But you have to go through the toughness of the game. This is not tetris my friend. You need to play, breathe, think, relax and play a bit more instead of play, get depressed, go seek professional help from the other bw players.
I`ll give you an example - if you`re feeling good there is no one to blame for your experience, but if you`re feeling bad - you and most people will generally accuse someone else for their discomfort. Guess what - it`s all in your head. Learn to control that and you have a 75% success rate in almost everything.
A 3rd scenario is possible where you try to combine the first 2 options by playing in the public rooms with the idea to get some skill there and leave ASAP. Go ti iccup then and start gaming.
And finally, personally, I think you should find your own weakness by yourself and seek motivation by watching the progamers instead of asking for people to do the work for you... This is experience that those people have gather for 10 years, and you want it right now, without getting through the toughness period? You will never develop the mentality and the ability needed to become a very good player if you don`t work for yourself, find the motivation and passion after you rethink the steps above.
Good luck.
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Braavos36375 Posts
you really won't learn much by playing the computer, and people won't really be able to help you
if you're losing to stuff like DT drop and reaver drop when you know your opponent is going to do them, it means something about your build timing / micro is really screwed up. a lot of newer players think they know build orders and how to react to what they scout, but often they don't.
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Hot_Bid we are trying to figure how noob he is. First thing is that you should work on your apm, second try to control your scouting worker better, third use number control groups more , and keep track of how you play with bwchart. Also bwchart will help you check how good is your build (the timing). That for now and play a lot on iccup/bnet.
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Braavos36375 Posts
well just go on west and play someone, then upload the reps. from the convo so far i'm guess pretty noob, because he initially didn't know how to provide reps, and he's only willing to upload a few vs comps.
nothing wrong with that, the quicker self awareness comes the better.
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On December 29 2008 04:08 Hot_Bid wrote:
well just go on west and play someone, then upload the reps. from the convo so far i'm guess pretty noob, because he initially didn't know how to provide reps, and he's only willing to upload a few vs comps.
nothing wrong with that, the quicker self awareness comes the better.
Yes, i just mean that he wasnt actually "trainning" against the pc but giving a reference, as you say the best for him right now is to start playing "noobs only" on bnet.
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I don't have too many Reps from me vs People and I don't trust "noob only games." Anyways, I don't know how not knowing how to upload reps has anything to do with my ability to play the game.
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Braavos36375 Posts
why don't you go on west right now? i'm sure someone will show in Channel Op TL-West to play you
whats your account name?
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Shadow-Mage I might jump on in abit, right now I'm having lunch. Cheese and Crackers! Woo
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HAY GUYZ HOW DO I GET BETTER THX
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Well, I played against winteriscoming and I got my ass handed to me pretty well. ANd he sad it was pretty bad.
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Watch reps and shit,gom tv has some decent good vods proleague aswell and theres quite few replays uploaded on here and gg.net
Dont watch Combat-EX.
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I already watch Replays!! But noone seems to read the messages that have already been posted Christ's sake!
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I'll be at home tonight (working tomorrow) and will be awake for about 2-3 more hours.
Unfortunately I'm Swedish, meaning we might have latency issues, but if you're serious about learning basic stuff about the game, I'd sit down with you for an hour and pop some ideas.
I'm just going to go out and say this in advance though; If you keep telling me you actually know how to play the game and that you're actually a good player etc, it's not really going to work
edit: I'd suggest we meet up on the iccup server (http://www.iccup.com/ for the game-launcher) and try playing with LAN latency settings, but I'm prepared to try USEast/West if you don't mind latency problems. PM me on TL or reply in this thread within the next 30 mins, or I'll probably go watch a movie instead
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I'm definitely up for any help anyone is willing to give at this point.
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CA10828 Posts
upload your reps vs actual human opponents. reps vs computers are worthless.
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I'll play!! I'll play!
I been wanting to try out this PvZ BO for awhile -_-;;
HnR)SoYu west.
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On December 29 2008 04:40 Equinox_kr wrote:
HAY GUYZ HOW DO I GET BETTER THX
At least the mod moved it to BW rather than than strategy.
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CA10828 Posts
i am interested in seeing your rep vs this "winteriscoming" guy
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On December 29 2008 05:53 Shadow-Mage wrote:
I'm definitely up for any help anyone is willing to give at this point.
Can you get an iccup launcher ready (downloadable at www.iccup.com )?
or shall I create an account on USEast (not preferable)?
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On December 29 2008 05:59 LosingID8 wrote:
i am interested in seeing your rep vs this "winteriscoming" guy
It was a standard ZvT. He went Mutas and I fucking rolled over and died. AND I JUST FUCKING REALIZED TO TECH! GOD I HATE TVZ.
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edit: nvm
great, tell me when you're done setting up iccup (or when/if you've failed )
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On December 29 2008 06:14 GinNtoniC wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2008 05:53 Shadow-Mage wrote:
I'm definitely up for any help anyone is willing to give at this point. Can you get an iccup launcher ready (downloadable at www.iccup.com)?or shall I create an account on USEast (not preferable)?
Yeah, lemme set everything up if I can. It may take abit.
Update: Well, I guess USEast because the ICCup server doesn't like my version of StarCraft.
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you should be alright. downloading the launcher and setting it up (provided you don't use a 90's modem connection) shouldn't take more than like 10-15 minutes - TOPS.
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On December 29 2008 06:21 Shadow-Mage wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2008 05:59 LosingID8 wrote:
i am interested in seeing your rep vs this "winteriscoming" guy It was a standard ZvT. He went Mutas and I fucking rolled over and died. AND I JUST FUCKING REALIZED TO TECH! GOD I HATE TVZ.
http://www.repdepot.net/
1) Click "Browse..."
2) Navigate to (probably) C:\Program Files\Starcraft\maps\replays
3) Select the replay to upload, click it and press "Open"
4) Click "Submit"
5) Post the resulting link here.
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On December 29 2008 06:27 fonger wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2008 06:21 Shadow-Mage wrote:On December 29 2008 05:59 LosingID8 wrote:
i am interested in seeing your rep vs this "winteriscoming" guy It was a standard ZvT. He went Mutas and I fucking rolled over and died. AND I JUST FUCKING REALIZED TO TECH! GOD I HATE TVZ. http://www.repdepot.net/1) Click "Browse..." 2) Navigate to (probably) C:\Program Files\Starcraft\maps\replays 3) Select the replay to upload, click it and press "Open" 4) Click "Submit" 5) Post the resulting link here.
It's not giving me a link. It just perpetually waits at a blank white screen called "/uploadResult.php"
And GinNtoniC, the ICCup server doesn't like my version of StarCraft for some odd reason.
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On December 29 2008 06:35 Shadow-Mage wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2008 06:27 fonger wrote:On December 29 2008 06:21 Shadow-Mage wrote:On December 29 2008 05:59 LosingID8 wrote:
i am interested in seeing your rep vs this "winteriscoming" guy It was a standard ZvT. He went Mutas and I fucking rolled over and died. AND I JUST FUCKING REALIZED TO TECH! GOD I HATE TVZ. http://www.repdepot.net/1) Click "Browse..." 2) Navigate to (probably) C:\Program Files\Starcraft\maps\replays 3) Select the replay to upload, click it and press "Open" 4) Click "Submit" 5) Post the resulting link here. It's not giving me a link. It just perpetually waits at a blank white screen called "/uploadResult.php" And GinNtoniC, the ICCup server doesn't like my version of StarCraft for some odd reason.
What version of starcraft do you play? 1.16?
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is awesome32274 Posts
Iccup runs on the old patch.
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Well crap... That's just wonderful... And Yeah, I do run SC at 1.16
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It wouldn't patch it. It said the patch wasn't needed.
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then uninstall the game, reinstall it and apply patch 1.15.3 manually.
trust me, you will want to keep it since 1.16 is a joke of a patch at its current state.
It's getting kind of late, so we'll see how this goes.
I'll stay up another hour or so. If it takes you longer than that to fix it, contact me tomorrow or some other time. but I strongly suggest you use iccup at all times from now on (at least until Blizzard has fixed patch 1.16 which is, as I said, currently a joke)
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Go to bed. I'm really not in the mood to uninstall SC and reinstall it. Especially since the only thing on the other end of said process is a whole arse-load of ass-kickings.
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You might want to quit SC or something, play a RTS game with MBS in it ooh SC2 burn!
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On December 29 2008 07:21 Shadow-Mage wrote:
Go to bed. I'm really not in the mood to uninstall SC and reinstall it. Especially since the only thing on the other end of said process is a whole arse-load of ass-kickings.
what fonger said.
besides, uninstalling and reinstalling starcraft + applying correct patches litterally takes MAX 10 minutes on a normal computer.
but disregard that and just do what Fonger suggests.
That should take you like 2 minutes.
If you still don't want to play because you don't like losing, then just stick with playing vs computers..... forever 
edit: btw fonger, why is the program called scv selector? that sounds sketchy tbh ^^.
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Noone likes losing, and I've grown quite distasteful of it today considering by such wide margins I have lost.
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Wow, I am really impressed how much you guys are actually trying to help this kid given the fact that he is more or less just complaining and putting no effort in it. Anyway gl hf, BUT Shadow-Mage, if you are not prepared to lose games do not start playing SC because the road ahead of you is not easy and you will keep losing for a long time. The skill level of SC players is very high compared to other games and it is also one of the hardest RTS games (if not the hardest).
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On December 29 2008 07:29 Shadow-Mage wrote:
Noone likes losing, and I've grown quite distasteful of it today considering by such wide margins I have lost.
Pal there is no magic way to improve your multy task... the only way i know is practicing and thats made playing better players(Iccup is a good place for that) losse and watch the replayn than u see wath u did wrong or why he own you and u improve next game.
Try to pay attention to minera line, minimap, batlel, resources, produccion of units .... u won't be able to do it all at first but you will improve believe =D
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On December 29 2008 07:31 NotSupporting wrote:
Wow, I am really impressed how much you guys are actually trying to help this kid given the fact that he is more or less just complaining and putting no effort in it. Anyway gl hf, BUT Shadow-Mage, if you are not prepared to lose games do not start playing SC because the road ahead of you is not easy and you will keep losing for a long time. The skill level of SC players is very high compared to other games and it is also one of the hardest RTS games (if not the hardest).
You obviously need to butt out because you have no idea what you're talking about with me "putting no effort in it." I've already put in a great deal of effort previous to this post and it has payed off. But I figured there might be a better way. I AM trying something by coming here and asking for help, and while that may not be a problem for many people it IS an MAJOR accomplishment for me. Humility is not the strongest of my characteristics and as such asking for help does not come easily.
In short, shut up and butt out.
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On December 29 2008 07:24 GinNtoniC wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2008 07:21 Shadow-Mage wrote:
Go to bed. I'm really not in the mood to uninstall SC and reinstall it. Especially since the only thing on the other end of said process is a whole arse-load of ass-kickings. what fonger said. besides, uninstalling and reinstalling starcraft + applying correct patches litterally takes MAX 10 minutes on a normal computer. but disregard that and just do what Fonger suggests. That should take you like 2 minutes. If you still don't want to play because you don't like losing, then just stick with playing vs computers..... forever edit: btw fonger, why is the program called scv selector? that sounds sketchy tbh ^^.
No idea man. I don't use it myself (I just have two Starcraft folders and rename between them when I need to switch), but I've seen it recommended on here before.
On December 29 2008 07:34 Shadow-Mage wrote:
Humility is not the strongest of my characteristics and as such asking for help does not come easily.
In short, shut up and butt out.
Learn it quick or stop posting. The regulars around here don't take well to your type, especially when you have nothing to offer.
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considering you want to be better at the game and start winning, I'm afraid the only effective path goes through losing.. a lot.
I probably lost 90% of my games for a month straight on iccup, before I started winning more than I lost.
Last season on iccup went a lot better and I actually won a lot.
This season has so far been even better (when I've actually played main race on comfortable maps)
But yeah, I don't think many on this site can truthfully say they did much besides losing when they first started playing SC competatively.
Just hang in there and study the replays in which you lost (together with replays from better players)
Eventually you'll improve. Good luck.
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On December 29 2008 07:35 fonger wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2008 07:24 GinNtoniC wrote:On December 29 2008 07:21 Shadow-Mage wrote:
Go to bed. I'm really not in the mood to uninstall SC and reinstall it. Especially since the only thing on the other end of said process is a whole arse-load of ass-kickings. what fonger said. besides, uninstalling and reinstalling starcraft + applying correct patches litterally takes MAX 10 minutes on a normal computer. but disregard that and just do what Fonger suggests. That should take you like 2 minutes. If you still don't want to play because you don't like losing, then just stick with playing vs computers..... forever edit: btw fonger, why is the program called scv selector? that sounds sketchy tbh ^^. No idea man. I don't use it myself (I just have two Starcraft folders and rename between them when I need to switch), but I've seen it recommended on here before.
That did it. I'm able to the ICCup server now.
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On December 29 2008 07:36 GinNtoniC wrote:
considering you want to be better at the game and start winning, I'm afraid the only effective path goes through losing.. a lot.
I probably lost 90% of my games for a month straight on iccup, before I started winning more than I lost.
Last season on iccup went a lot better and I actually won a lot.
This season has so far been even better (when I've actually played main race on comfortable maps)
But yeah, I don't think many on this site can truthfully say they did much besides losing when they first started playing SC competatively.
Just hang in there and study the replays in which you lost (together with replays from better players)
Eventually you'll improve. Good luck.
As I said, I don't really have a problem with losing. It's just that when I think I'm doing alright and then a veritable flood of Goons and Z'lots, or a single Lurker drop into my worker line, or some other bullshit like that. Having that happen a half dozen times just kinda gets on your nerves and degrades your moral.
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On December 29 2008 07:34 Shadow-Mage wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2008 07:31 NotSupporting wrote:
Wow, I am really impressed how much you guys are actually trying to help this kid given the fact that he is more or less just complaining and putting no effort in it. Anyway gl hf, BUT Shadow-Mage, if you are not prepared to lose games do not start playing SC because the road ahead of you is not easy and you will keep losing for a long time. The skill level of SC players is very high compared to other games and it is also one of the hardest RTS games (if not the hardest). You obviously need to butt out because you have no idea what you're talking about with me "putting no effort in it." I've already put in a great deal of effort previous to this post and it has payed off. But I figured there might be a better way. I AM trying something by coming here and asking for help, and while that may not be a problem for many people it IS an MAJOR accomplishment for me. Humility is not the strongest of my characteristics and as such asking for help does not come easily. In short, shut up and butt out.
To be honest Shadow-Mage I've only been helping you out because I've been bored and because I recognize how frustrating it can be to pick up an old game 10 years after its release (tried picking up some Tekken game sometime ago with a friend and got badly humiliated).
Here's the real deal. Your initial post was bad. Your attitude has been arrogant and bad. Your cooperation on actually setting up your game to play (patches etc) has been bad. You just showed your first sign of gratitude, but quickly turned around to "In short, shut up and butt out".
So in short; if people laugh at you and are surprised that I'm helping you - they're absolutely right.
I'm done trying to help you. Do what everyone else does; look up some replays, practise hard and humbly ask the people who are better than you, if they can help you improve.
With your current attitude, I honestly hope you fail.
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On December 29 2008 07:35 fonger wrote:
Learn it quick or stop posting. The regulars around here don't take well to your type, especially when you have nothing to offer.
I'm sorry, but it just pisses me off when someone comes in here assuming they know what I've done and to what extent and then telling me how II haven't tried.
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On December 29 2008 07:40 Shadow-Mage wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2008 07:36 GinNtoniC wrote:
considering you want to be better at the game and start winning, I'm afraid the only effective path goes through losing.. a lot.
I probably lost 90% of my games for a month straight on iccup, before I started winning more than I lost.
Last season on iccup went a lot better and I actually won a lot.
This season has so far been even better (when I've actually played main race on comfortable maps)
But yeah, I don't think many on this site can truthfully say they did much besides losing when they first started playing SC competatively.
Just hang in there and study the replays in which you lost (together with replays from better players)
Eventually you'll improve. Good luck. As I said, I don't really have a problem with losing. It's just that when I think I'm doing alright and then a veritable flood of Goons and Z'lots, or a single Lurker drop into my worker line, or some other bullshit like that. Having that happen a half dozen times just kinda gets on your nerves and degrades your moral.
It's understandable to feel badly demoralized but it's just the matter of fact that this game has been around for so long and even the average/below average players are just many levels above someone who's just started playing competitively, so you will just have to take the beatings for now.
Do take a break if it starts to get on your nerves, watch some more replays and try to actually absorb what's going on and analyze player reactions to how the game progresses, formulate your own opinions about what should be done and see how better players think differently from beginners. Don't give up though!
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On December 29 2008 07:37 Shadow-Mage wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2008 07:35 fonger wrote:On December 29 2008 07:24 GinNtoniC wrote:On December 29 2008 07:21 Shadow-Mage wrote:
Go to bed. I'm really not in the mood to uninstall SC and reinstall it. Especially since the only thing on the other end of said process is a whole arse-load of ass-kickings. what fonger said. besides, uninstalling and reinstalling starcraft + applying correct patches litterally takes MAX 10 minutes on a normal computer. but disregard that and just do what Fonger suggests. That should take you like 2 minutes. If you still don't want to play because you don't like losing, then just stick with playing vs computers..... forever edit: btw fonger, why is the program called scv selector? that sounds sketchy tbh ^^. No idea man. I don't use it myself (I just have two Starcraft folders and rename between them when I need to switch), but I've seen it recommended on here before. That did it. I'm able to the ICCup server now.
Good now you will get own and own and own and you will get better thx to taht gl hf =D see you in game
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Braavos36375 Posts
On December 29 2008 07:43 Shadow-Mage wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2008 07:35 fonger wrote:
Learn it quick or stop posting. The regulars around here don't take well to your type, especially when you have nothing to offer. I'm sorry, but it just pisses me off when someone comes in here assuming they know what I've done and to what extent and then telling me how II haven't tried.
here's the rep of me (winteriscoming) and him, my ZvT is ~C-
http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Hot_Bid/ShadowMageT_winteriscZ.rep
you need to learn fundamental build orders and micro basics (vs. muta harass), as well as a bit of decision making, going for break when i know its coming, especially the second time when my mutas were already in your base is kinda suicidal.
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Replay doesn't work for me :/
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I'll die to anything I don't know how to deal with. Which is basicly Mutas and that's about all I can think of. I've never been told, seen, or understood how to stop Mutas, so I can't.
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If you are going to do this you will have to set aside losing/winning for a few moths at least. Go in to a game and do your best, use your build order that you had in mind and push yourself to manage your macro and micro tasks. This will in 90% of the cases not be enough but then you just take a minute and go over the game and you try to understand what went wrong and how you could do better in the future. See losing as a good thing rather, you can probably learn something or get reminded of something after every lost game so really you gain by losing games. This is how we all learned the game in the first place.
But at your level it is also just about playing, you need to get your macro and micro working well enough to play out a good game and this you will get from knowing what to do in the game and then just doing it over and over.
When you think that you have improved and need some additional help you could come back and write a post in the strategy part of this forum. BUT if you do, make your starting question better, "help me I am a newb" is going to make a lot of the better players on this forum not even look at your thread. And also be respectful to everyone that tries to help. GL.
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Braavos36375 Posts
On December 29 2008 07:54 Shadow-Mage wrote:
I'll die to anything I don't know how to deal with. Which is basicly Mutas and that's about all I can think of. I've never been told, seen, or understood how to stop Mutas, so I can't.
you can't go one base 2 rax academy then lose your first force to sunkens, then expand and try to break again, that's just really bad decision making. there's no way that second break will work and my mutas did too much damage in your base.
if you didn't do damage with your first group you have to play super defensive against muta, especially against two hatch muta. your scout died instantly, which was really bad, so you couldn't scout whether i was 3 or 2 hatch.
to defend against muta harass you have to get +1 and range (along with stim, obviously), preferably 3+ raxes, and just try to move and get your marines into a formation where they can all fire on the mutas at the same time. pull back the rines when he flies in to strafe, and then run out and try to focus fire on a muta. it's really hard to do this while you are macroing, and just requires a lot of practice.
On December 29 2008 07:53 uriel- wrote:
Replay doesn't work for me :/
weird, its 1.16 and works fine for me
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Hong Kong20321 Posts
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On December 29 2008 07:41 GinNtoniC wrote:
Here's the real deal. Your initial post was bad. Your attitude has been arrogant and bad. Your cooperation on actually setting up your game to play (patches etc) has been bad. You just showed your first sign of gratitude, but quickly turned around to "In short, shut up and butt out".
So in short; if people laugh at you and are surprised that I'm helping you - they're absolutely right.
I'm done trying to help you. Do what everyone else does; look up some replays, practise hard and humbly ask the people who are better than you, if they can help you improve.
With your current attitude, I honestly hope you fail.
If my initial post was bad, then you should tell me an enlighten me. I don't know what was bad about it and thus I don't know how to make a good post and can't learn how to make one if people don't tell me.
I don't feel as though I've been arrogant.
And I can't cooperate because I have almost no idea what I'm doing. I didn't want to uninstall it because last time I did that, it basically broke the game and I couldn't get it working again for several months. (I don't remember what exactly the problem was.)
And if people laugh at me, oh well, that's life. I'll deal with it.
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Hong Kong20321 Posts
oh and the rep works fine for me
u need to macro better and ur first push was like.. premature + too late lol
maybe 3 medics was a bit too much too ?
anyway good luck improving lol
and remember to always play for fun!
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On December 29 2008 08:00 Hot_Bid wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2008 07:54 Shadow-Mage wrote:
I'll die to anything I don't know how to deal with. Which is basicly Mutas and that's about all I can think of. I've never been told, seen, or understood how to stop Mutas, so I can't. you can't go one base 2 rax academy then lose your first force to sunkens, then expand and try to break again, that's just really bad decision making. there's no way that second break will work and my mutas did too much damage in your base. if you didn't do damage with your first group you have to play super defensive against muta, especially against two hatch muta. your scout died instantly, which was really bad, so you couldn't scout whether i was 3 or 2 hatch. to defend against muta harass you have to get +1 and range (along with stim, obviously), preferably 3+ raxes, and just try to move and get your marines into a formation where they can all fire on the mutas at the same time. pull back the rines when he flies in to strafe, and then run out and try to focus fire on a muta. it's really hard to do this while you are macroing, and just requires a lot of practice.
I thought I did have 3 or 4 Barracks pumping stuff. But knowing to get range is good to know.
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On December 29 2008 07:53 uriel- wrote:
Replay doesn't work for me :/
Same, it crashed my bw like 20 sec in to the game.
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watch reps and vods. Dont watch combat ex videos on youtube, or take what commentators say as strategic advice. Oh and really work on your attitude, rather than calling everyone who says what I've just said an idiot who should shut up.
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On December 29 2008 08:19 Piy wrote:
watch reps and vods. Dont watch combat ex videos on youtube, or take what commentators say as strategic advice. Oh and really work on your attitude, rather than calling everyone who says what I've just said an idiot who should shut up.
Sorry, many things have just put me on edge lately and my attempt to get better at StarCraft isn't helping much. I know that doesn't make my attitude acceptable and I am sorry.
As I've said, I do watch a great deal of replays. But without the commentators, nothing really seems to make sense to me.
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This is a very generic and short advice, but it will help you immensely until you become good and learn and practice to the point of perfection.
Think why everything is done; not only will it help you be creative (so you don't go 1 gate expo every game, therefore giving you some fun builds) but also you'll be getting the 6th sense you need sometimes.
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On December 29 2008 08:24 Wala.Revolution wrote:
This is a very generic and short advice, but it will help you immensely until you become good and learn and practice to the point of perfection.
Think why everything is done; not only will it help you be creative (so you don't go 1 gate expo every game, therefore giving you some fun builds) but also you'll be getting the 6th sense you need sometimes.
This actually some really good advice and I try to do this, but alot of the time, I simply have no idea.
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I mean it's simple logic. Opponent adds another gate = more forces or if not, waste of resources right?
But, in some cases, it's something you might not think of.
No third pylon (or late) in TvP = usually proxy, therefore start scouting.
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See, that's the type of thing that I just don't understand. And while that might be good to know eventually, I don't think it'll do me too much good as it is right now.
On an unrelated note, I play on ICCup and people scream and bitch about me being a noob. So...What now?
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If you take 20-40 mins to kill a comp, I think you're in the bottom tier of D-. I would say you lack in all departments, so you want to basics.
Keep what I said in mind, but as others have said, read build orders. They will give you a solid early game. For example, in basics, if it says go gas after 1 gate, that means teching because advanced units costs a lot of gas. You also want to make constant probes and some expansions.
The general rule is you must have minimum amount of force to be alive, and invest everything else into what's coming up.
I started my SC in 98, but I didn't play multiplayer until 2005 or 6. I got better playing BGHs, which basically shaped my micro and macro, with key strategies such as positioning of the units and other mechanics. Many people will say "BGH is for noobs" but that is only to a certain extent. You'll be surprised just how strong of a mechanics except expoing goood players have.
I would suggest that path because it was enjoyable to me. Just remember that you'll have to adapt into playing low-money but that'll be smooth if you critically think on almost everything you do.
If you play terran, learn how to block.
Get "good habits" even if you don't can't maximize the efficiency such as using hotkeys and maybe f2-4 keys. Practice multitasking by controlling your scout and your peon production. Learn the dynamics of SC, how which unit is good vs which units. The concept of concussive, explosive , and normal damage is too boring to know, but if you learn that sunks do 40 damage to dragoons while only 20 to marines, it would make sense.
I would help you around Febuary but until then, I can't play.
On an unrelated note: I don't know how to spell Feb. and I didn't know controlling was spelled with two Ts.
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The 20-40 minute thing was just a guess, Turns out it takes me between 8-ish and 15-ish minutes to completely wipe out all buildings of a computer. So...I kinda under-estimated my ability.
I've actually remembered the concussive/explosive/normal attacks and the sizes of most, if not all units. (Curse Mutalisks and their small size!!!) I have general rough ideas of what counters what.
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CA10828 Posts
On December 29 2008 02:46 Shadow-Mage wrote:
You guys aren't getting it. I KNOW build orders, I CAN do them. It's just everything turns to shit when I have to build my economy, an army, and attack at the same time.
On December 29 2008 07:54 Shadow-Mage wrote:
I'll die to anything I don't know how to deal with. Which is basicly Mutas and that's about all I can think of. I've never been told, seen, or understood how to stop Mutas, so I can't.
look, if you know how to deal with mutas (which is the most standard zerg opening zvt) then you are vastly overestimating your ability.
here's a piece of advice about TL. when you are a noob (with regards to both/or starcraft and postcount), do not run your mouth when people give you advice. no one here said anything that deserved you getting angry at them. maybe this might not make sense now, but in a few months when you get the fundamentals of starcraft down you'll reread this thread and realize how stubborn you sound.
you say you watch a lot of replays but a lot of it doesn't make sense. then stop wasting your time. you need to gain first-hand experience playing the game first, THEN when you watch replays you'll see things like "oh hey, terran and i had the same opening build order, but when he scouted that the zerg went 2-hatch he did x when i did y in the same situation." then BECAUSE you have first-hand experience you'll be able to see why he did those things.
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Meh i tried to help you but you seem just to be in a hurry to win. If you want to get better you got to understand that it takes TIME period, at least 1 month of getting raped on pub "noobs only" games to start winning games on D- iccup. True, nobody likes to lose but you DONT KNOW THE BASICS. Stop pretending you understand Bos, maybe you can do 9 depot 10 barraks 10 ref but do you understand why are you doing a Bo?. Just go play better players, learn to lose. If you want games go op IRC or msg me on iccup. Any other advice is just too much for you. And download bwchart and compare your bo with the bo your trying time wise.
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Uhh, so you played the AI, then you played the human and you got rolled over and over again. Nothing new, really, happened to me a lot. Kicked AI ass but just found out that I had a lot to improve on.
If you did understand the BO's, then you should understand what are you doing them for. BO's aren't just for memorization, there's a reason that there are multiple BO's. I need to see your reps before I can criticize your game so I have a basis on what you did wrong.
The best advice we can give right now when you're getting owned is "Play more", and we mean a fucking lot more, fucking lot meaning a fucking lot more than how many times Boxer appeared in an OSL Ro4 + how many times he has his games on pimpest plays.
But when we say "play more", we also mean analyzing your rep, what's the point of playing and losing/winning when you won't look at the reason you won/lost and improve on it?
Go play more.
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I do look at the reasons why I lose. But nothing ever seems to get through my skull. Macro is often one of the biggest reasons I lose, but that can't really be helped. In just about every other instance it's because I forget either my Engineering bay and/or Comsat station. Any advice?
I also feel as though helping by relatively small margins would help me learn more. Is that the case? And if so where can I find people around my skill level if not on ICCup.
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When I was a new player a year and a few months ago I thought I understood strategy and build orders. NOW I realize I was completely full of shit. I know a lot more about the strategy of starcraft than I did then. And compared to others I'm still a newb. I'm a million times better than when I started and if I went back and played myself then I'd easily 1a2a3a without any thought whatsover over my old self. I can do the same to all the local players who once gave me trouble. I go on ICCUP and I can barely hold D when I'm in practiced form. When I'm out of practice I fall down to D- like right now. That's just the reality of Starcraft. Be humble, don't get angry when you lose. Just play, play, and play. And if you lose to simple things like reaver or DT, learn to predict it and counter. You might think it's just mechanics holding you back, but it probably isn't. But it will be a lot easier to practice mechanics right now and then learn strategy later so do it anyway.
Really, this game is kind of a good reality check for me. Whenever I think I'm the shit, I just have to go on ICCUP and then I realize that I'm just another D- starcraft player.
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On December 29 2008 11:39 Shadow-Mage wrote:
I do look at the reasons why I lose. But nothing ever seems to get through my skull.
what do you mean? You don't know what went wrong or something? Or you don't know what to improve on? (which is hella impossible)
There are always things to improve on in each game you have. Just play and play. One day, in one time you sit down on that chair and watch the countdown turn to 0, everything will just come out. You will get those timings right and those BO's right.
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Even though I probably am the worst player here (70apm on trackpad = FAIL), I would recommend watching fpvods and seeing what they did. (They scout a spire, you'd probably see that they make an archon instead of having templars). Replays work too, just turn off vision from one person so it's almost a fpvod :D
Btw, anyone wants to play me, just message me DHe95 on west.
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Dude, 70 apm? I wish mine was that high...I think mine is somewhere along the line of 50 or 60.
I see something that I do wrong, and I figure out how to fix it in my mind. But then I go and do the exact same damn thing 3 dozen more times in a row.
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On December 29 2008 14:16 Shadow-Mage wrote:
Dude, 70 apm? I wish mine was that high...I think mine is somewhere along the line of 50 or 60.
I see something that I do wrong, and I figure out how to fix it in my mind. But then I go and do the exact same damn thing 3 dozen more times in a row.
Mine used to be that... Got up to 70 by learning how to press like 1 twice to get to the location of where 1 is. Makes mutlitasking much easier :D
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On December 29 2008 08:53 Shadow-Mage wrote:
See, that's the type of thing that I just don't understand. And while that might be good to know eventually, I don't think it'll do me too much good as it is right now.
On an unrelated note, I play on ICCup and people scream and bitch about me being a noob. So...What now?
When you play on iccup if its not with friends always /DND GTFO or something like that. And if you're losing (or lost) and they're calling you a noob in game just alt qq and ignore it.
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It is really a simple lack of practice. You won't forget the ebay after you lose to late turrets for the hundredth game in a row, nor will you forget scan after you lose to DT rush for the hundredth game in a row. There's no quick and easy way to learn mechanics or increase APM: you just have to play (and lose) until you learn the fundamentals.
It might be helpful to find some friends or 2 (real life or interwebs whatever) that are similar beginners and interested in improving. Each pick a race and practice!
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rofl @ posting reps vs comps.
This whole thread is lawl.
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On December 29 2008 14:16 Shadow-Mage wrote:
Dude, 70 apm? I wish mine was that high...I think mine is somewhere along the line of 50 or 60.
I see something that I do wrong, and I figure out how to fix it in my mind. But then I go and do the exact same damn thing 3 dozen more times in a row.
50 apm terran?
yeah work on your mechanics a lot
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Hey, may I ask, do you use hotkeys? Not just for building/unit production, but also for your units and buildings (the group numbers).
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Valhalla18444 Posts
On December 29 2008 14:16 Shadow-Mage wrote:
Dude, 70 apm? I wish mine was that high...I think mine is somewhere along the line of 50 or 60.
I see something that I do wrong, and I figure out how to fix it in my mind. But then I go and do the exact same damn thing 3 dozen more times in a row.
you will not win against anyone who has any idea what they're doing with 50 apm
this is something that turns off some players who are just getting into starcraft, but it is reality
if you know a build order, just use that one single build order (make sure its a GOOD build order, so just steal it from somewhere. With what I've read in this thread I'm pretty sure you don't have the experience yet to know the difference, so make sure its something safe and standard that pros do). Use it over and over and over, and try to be as fast as possible. Raising your APM is more of a mental block than anything else, because one might assume its too difficult because they don't fully understand the progression of their build order (and therefore they get destroyed).
Get that shit into the triple digits and maybe the incredibly talented, incredibly good-looking, incredibly incredible FakeSteve will teach you how to play this glorious game.
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Valhalla18444 Posts
to add to that, here's some shit that will raise your apm:
when you make shit from your factories, don't putz around. scream through them like a banshee click t click t click t click v click v click v click v FAST FAST FAST
Do that useless spam you see people do at the beginning in FPVods. Don't sit around staring at your scvs, swing your mouse around like a man and get used to how it behaves at higher speed. if you want to work on your accuracy just do simple shit like click on every mineral patch in a row as fast as you can. there's a good solid minute where you dont have anything better to do, so just do it. get faster, be faster, play faster. You need to get your mouse hand comfortable and reliable so you can do shit fast in lategame
Make sure you are hotkeying shit. if you have an army and it isnt hotkeyed, hotkey that shit. it makes controlling your units easier (ooooo). Make sure you have your CC's and then your comsats on 0, 9, and 8. Force yourself to use shift-F2 to save the screen location over your factories, and use shift-F3 over where you want your rally point to be. then hit f2, click a factory, hit f3, rightclick on the ground. rinse and repeat, rally your goddamned factories. Learn to do this shit FAST. FAST FAST FAST.
Raising your APM isn't difficult. Just do mundane shit over and over until you can do it super fast. This is why practicing one build order when you're as new to the game as you are is a good idea. You get your hands screaming around with the mouse and keyboard because you know how to do this build with your eyes closed, and the speed carries over when you try new shit
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Valhalla18444 Posts
also: keep in mind that at your level, strategy really doesn't matter. I could probably beat you mouse-only doing anything in the world, so there are more important things you need to work on first. i'm not exactly a stellar player, you know
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Amen at FakeSteve's post, I don't know if you'll ask anything after reading his post.
Just don't get too obsessed with your apm though, since apm is not always proportional to skill, take nal_ra for example.
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Shadow-Mage, you should respect the amount of help you're getting, its not very usual that a new players gets a thread full of people helping him improve.
I love TL and so should you. <3
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This kid comes off to me as an extremely arrogant 12 year old
On December 29 2008 11:39 Shadow-Mage wrote:
I do look at the reasons why I lose. But nothing ever seems to get through my skull. Macro is often one of the biggest reasons I lose, but that can't really be helped. In just about every other instance it's because I forget either my Engineering bay and/or Comsat station. Any advice?
I also feel as though helping by relatively small margins would help me learn more. Is that the case? And if so where can I find people around my skill level if not on ICCup.
With that "can't be helped attitude" you will get no where. You need to watch pro vods and mass game, no matter if you lose 12341234 times in a row. Pick a strong build order and consciously work on improving your macro, nothing else. Low level games usually come down to who can make more units. You'll eventually pick up a small sense of timings and start winning games.
Of course, the other 30 posters in this forum said the same thing, so don't take my word for it.
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On December 29 2008 14:57 LuckyFool wrote:
rofl @ posting reps vs comps.
This whole thread is lawl.
Who are you to be elitist? That's the main problem people from other sites have witht TL.net - our way of looking down on lesser players and acting like we're all that.
Sure this guy has some bad attitude, but if I were a mod, I'd seriously consider temp-banning you for obviously trolling a thread like this. How pro where you when you first picked up starcraft? Cut the guy some slack or shut the hell up.
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On December 29 2008 11:39 Shadow-Mage wrote:
I do look at the reasons why I lose. But nothing ever seems to get through my skull. Macro is often one of the biggest reasons I lose, but that can't really be helped. In just about every other instance it's because I forget either my Engineering bay and/or Comsat station. Any advice?
I also feel as though helping by relatively small margins would help me learn more. Is that the case? And if so where can I find people around my skill level if not on ICCup.
Sticky notes on monitor.
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If you ever get sick of losing just switch over to 3v3 BGH for a while and practice your mechanics.
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hi sorry not trying to thread steal.. ive finally got serious into SC and now looking to become decent but atleast want D+.
ive watched replays B.O's read the threads etc etc but need some sort of training partner
or possibly a teacher who wouldnt mind teaching me to D+ max level on ICCUP with protoss.
Massing games without the help of a significant other is really not helping per say...
thanks.
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On December 29 2008 17:24 DanceCommander wrote:This kid comes off to me as an extremely arrogant 12 year old Show nested quote +On December 29 2008 11:39 Shadow-Mage wrote:
I do look at the reasons why I lose. But nothing ever seems to get through my skull. Macro is often one of the biggest reasons I lose, but that can't really be helped. In just about every other instance it's because I forget either my Engineering bay and/or Comsat station. Any advice?
I also feel as though helping by relatively small margins would help me learn more. Is that the case? And if so where can I find people around my skill level if not on ICCup. With that "can't be helped attitude" you will get no where. You need to watch pro vods and mass game, no matter if you lose 12341234 times in a row. Pick a strong build order and consciously work on improving your macro, nothing else. Low level games usually come down to who can make more units. You'll eventually pick up a small sense of timings and start winning games. Of course, the other 30 posters in this forum said the same thing, so don't take my word for it.
This. Everything can be helped.
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if your problem is that your skillwise more advanced friend is beating you all the time before you think you can learn anything from that game, just try to masgame some noobs 1on or 2on2 or 3on3 or whatever, just join some public bnet games with 'noob' in game name and prepare to get flamed from your allies for being a bad player cuz strangely the term noob goes for not-new-to-the-game-but-still-sucky-compared-to-the-better-players-but-owning-really-new-players-101 players too (like me for example). and sadly there could be many games you loose just because some dick thinks it adds to the competioin to use hacks(maphack most often but there are still some minhackers out there too).
so just massgame against people who are slightly above your skill level, that should give you the clues to what you have to improe and thus learn to get better
gl hf
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Maybe I can help you defend against Reaver drops and the like, its one of my plays that I really like, hahaha.
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If you're just first starting, i wouldn't suggest playing 100% iccup because i bet 99% of the people who are D- will easily stomp you. I would instead suggest finding a noob friendly clan on B.NET (get chaoslauncher too) and improve there. If Clan Art or SeeD Clan were still alive i would suggest them but neither are :\
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On December 30 2008 00:04 b3h47pte wrote:
If you're just first starting, i wouldn't suggest playing 100% iccup because i bet 99% of the people who are D- will easily stomp you. I would instead suggest finding a noob friendly clan on B.NET (get chaoslauncher too) and improve there. If Clan Art or SeeD Clan were still alive i would suggest them but neither are :\
You don't get much anymore with chaoslauncher... just mostly latencychanger. (Unless there's another APM counter that works?)
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I'm really curious what happened to SeeD though.
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I'd just like to apologize to everyone. I really am sorry for upsetting anyone. I'm quite new to this community and hopefully I'll figure out the proper way to act as time passes. I didn't mean to come off as arrogant or as an asshole. I knew it would take work to become better, but I suppose I just didn't realize how much work it will take. I shouldn't have for taken your guys' advice for granted since, obviously, you are all FAR more experienced that I am. Once again, I am sorry and I hope we can all just leave my attitude in the past and forget about it.
Also, I would also like to thank everyone who honestly tried to help me. I posted this thread thinking there might be some semi-magical way to get better faster. Apparently there is no magical method (possibly aside from BlueIris's training exercise. Thanks SonuvBob!) and just playing and practicing the basics are the best things I can really do at this point. (Since I barely understand what happens in replays.)
On a side note, can anyone give me an estimated rate of progress I can expect for practicing for X amount of time over Y period of days? Is it enough to practice for 1 hour a week, or 2 hours a week, or 1 hour a day, etc?
Thanks again!
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On December 29 2008 18:12 GinNtoniC wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2008 14:57 LuckyFool wrote:
rofl @ posting reps vs comps.
This whole thread is lawl. Who are you to be elitist? That's the main problem people from other sites have witht TL.net - our way of looking down on lesser players and acting like we're all that. Sure this guy has some bad attitude, but if I were a mod, I'd seriously consider temp-banning you for obviously trolling a thread like this. How pro where you when you first picked up starcraft? Cut the guy some slack or shut the hell up.
I have absolutely no problems with players looking for help and I'm totally willing to help anyone out.
It's the progression of the OP that irked me. He asks for help, that's awesome, then he claims to know builds and know the game so well, yet this is obviously not the case. This is where the problem lies for me. When I first picked up starcraft I wasn't saying to other people that I knew all the builds and what to do...
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CA10828 Posts
On December 30 2008 01:26 Shadow-Mage wrote:
On a side note, can anyone give me an estimated rate of progress I can expect for practicing for X amount of time over Y period of days? Is it enough to practice for 1 hour a week, or 2 hours a week, or 1 hour a day, etc?
Thanks again!
if you're just starting out, 1 or 2 hours a week will get you nowhere. you'd have to play a couple hours a day to really get the hang out things.
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On December 30 2008 00:04 b3h47pte wrote:
If you're just first starting, i wouldn't suggest playing 100% iccup because i bet 99% of the people who are D- will easily stomp you. I would instead suggest finding a noob friendly clan on B.NET (get chaoslauncher too) and improve there. If Clan Art or SeeD Clan were still alive i would suggest them but neither are :\
I'm actually trying to start a StarCraft division in a clan I'm in. StarCraft is such an awsome game, and yet we don't have it, or any RTS for that matter which kinda makes me sad. Only problem is, the only people really interested are worse at melee's than me! Then can't even beat a computer. But that'll change quickly if I can manage to get a play group going.
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On December 30 2008 01:28 LuckyFool wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2008 18:12 GinNtoniC wrote:On December 29 2008 14:57 LuckyFool wrote:
rofl @ posting reps vs comps.
This whole thread is lawl. Who are you to be elitist? That's the main problem people from other sites have witht TL.net - our way of looking down on lesser players and acting like we're all that. Sure this guy has some bad attitude, but if I were a mod, I'd seriously consider temp-banning you for obviously trolling a thread like this. How pro where you when you first picked up starcraft? Cut the guy some slack or shut the hell up. I have absolutely no problems with players looking for help and I'm totally willing to help anyone out. It's the progression of the OP that irked me. He asks for help, that's awesome, then he claims to know builds and know the game so well, yet this is obviously not the case. This is where the problem lies for me. When I first picked up starcraft I wasn't saying to other people that I knew all the builds and what to do...
I haven't just "picked up starcraft." I've actually been paying attention to pro stuff for a while, and trying to learn some builds. I've had the game for something like 2 years now.
On December 30 2008 01:31 LosingID8 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2008 01:26 Shadow-Mage wrote:
On a side note, can anyone give me an estimated rate of progress I can expect for practicing for X amount of time over Y period of days? Is it enough to practice for 1 hour a week, or 2 hours a week, or 1 hour a day, etc?
Thanks again! if you're just starting out, 1 or 2 hours a week will get you nowhere. you'd have to play a couple hours a day to really get the hang out things.
That might actually abit of a problem, especially when I get back into college.
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Anyone wanna help me? =PP I'm in channel op tl-west if you want :D
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On December 30 2008 00:30 Infinity.SkyLark wrote:
I'm really curious what happened to SeeD though.
The guy who controlled the bot had to go to mandatory military service and then everything fell apart from there.
And at OP, you shouldn't try to start a clan at your level, you should try to join a clan, and then get better before trying to start your own clan (in my opinion).
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It's not really starting a clan, per se. It's getting my clan to start supporting StarCraft. I honestly don't know why we don't have it. Probably cause we're more focused on FPS's and such.
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On December 30 2008 01:26 Shadow-Mage wrote:
I'd just like to apologize to everyone. I really am sorry for upsetting anyone. I'm quite new to this community and hopefully I'll figure out the proper way to act as time passes. I didn't mean to come off as arrogant or as an asshole. I knew it would take work to become better, but I suppose I just didn't realize how much work it will take. I shouldn't have for taken your guys' advice for granted since, obviously, you are all FAR more experienced that I am. Once again, I am sorry and I hope we can all just leave my attitude in the past and forget about it.
Also, I would also like to thank everyone who honestly tried to help me. I posted this thread thinking there might be some semi-magical way to get better faster. Apparently there is no magical method (possibly aside from BlueIris's training exercise. Thanks SonuvBob!) and just playing and practicing the basics are the best things I can really do at this point. (Since I barely understand what happens in replays.)
On a side note, can anyone give me an estimated rate of progress I can expect for practicing for X amount of time over Y period of days? Is it enough to practice for 1 hour a week, or 2 hours a week, or 1 hour a day, etc?
Thanks again!
Well it took me about 3 years of recreational playing (fastest maps, UMS, occasional LT here and there) and 1 year of hardcore playing (iCCup, clan wars, practice sessions with people) to reach a C- rank. I think the first season of iccup I went like 1-7 before I realized that I sucked. So I joined a clan.
Ask the same question to everyone else here and they will answer somewhere along those lines. You need to find 1 person who is dedicated to playing like 10 games in a row and is somewhere close to your skill level. Trust me, you will feel the improvement.
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Sadly the only guy I know who is about my skill level isn't too fond of StarCraft.
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Hmm, I don't think if I should actually recommend this but if you have Garena with you, you can go play in the Philippine StarCraft room. There's a good number of noobs there the last time I checked (which was last night). But since it's our room, don't expect them to speak in english or something, some noobs would be nice enough to PM you and get themselves killed.
But yeah, the best way to improve is to get yourself owned in iCCup. This will be a little hard because your progress will be overshadowed by the skill of other players. Even if you'd get to the basic BO's, basic macro and scouting, you will just win half of your match but at least you will be able to steal some wins now.
And we have the same problem by the way, less practice and playing time because of college, haha.
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I really dont' see the point of getting raped on iCCup continuously unless after each rep you post it on TL.net in the strat section for some review because getting owned and not knowing why is pretty much pointless. Hence why he should join a noob-friendly (but not terrible) clan.
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On December 30 2008 13:43 b3h47pte wrote:
I really dont' see the point of getting raped on iCCup continuously unless after each rep you post it on TL.net in the strat section for some review because getting owned and not knowing why is pretty much pointless. Hence why he should join a noob-friendly (but not terrible) clan.
80% of the people that reply in the threads that ask for help don't even watch the replays.
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Well you'll probably eventually meet someone nice enough to actually watch your rep. There are people who do that :\
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On December 30 2008 03:55 DanceCommander wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2008 01:26 Shadow-Mage wrote:
I'd just like to apologize to everyone. I really am sorry for upsetting anyone. I'm quite new to this community and hopefully I'll figure out the proper way to act as time passes. I didn't mean to come off as arrogant or as an asshole. I knew it would take work to become better, but I suppose I just didn't realize how much work it will take. I shouldn't have for taken your guys' advice for granted since, obviously, you are all FAR more experienced that I am. Once again, I am sorry and I hope we can all just leave my attitude in the past and forget about it.
Also, I would also like to thank everyone who honestly tried to help me. I posted this thread thinking there might be some semi-magical way to get better faster. Apparently there is no magical method (possibly aside from BlueIris's training exercise. Thanks SonuvBob!) and just playing and practicing the basics are the best things I can really do at this point. (Since I barely understand what happens in replays.)
On a side note, can anyone give me an estimated rate of progress I can expect for practicing for X amount of time over Y period of days? Is it enough to practice for 1 hour a week, or 2 hours a week, or 1 hour a day, etc?
Thanks again! Well it took me about 3 years of recreational playing (fastest maps, UMS, occasional LT here and there) and 1 year of hardcore playing (iCCup, clan wars, practice sessions with people) to reach a C- rank. I think the first season of iccup I went like 1-7 before I realized that I sucked. So I joined a clan. Ask the same question to everyone else here and they will answer somewhere along those lines. You need to find 1 person who is dedicated to playing like 10 games in a row and is somewhere close to your skill level. Trust me, you will feel the improvement.
I admire your determination. I played seriously for 1 month and a week I think and reached a solid D around. I could never go past 1500 though. I shouldn't have quit. 
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Lol, last time I actively played was when 2rax 1 fac was standard in TvZ.
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D- iccup should still be lightyears away from him. Your first post said you know what your doing wrong so you have to correct it yourself through a nausiating amount of games. If you manage to fix 1 small mistake everygame then I would say that is amazing improvement. Your problem would be most likely thousands of mistakes in a single 15 minute game. There is no magic way for us to teach you how to constantly make scvs, never miss depots and spend all your money; it's something that you already know how to do and can not be explained further. Feel free to queue 3-4 units if you have the cash and lack the APM but thats as far as our advice can go. You need to play and play and play and remember your faults in your head so you can consciously address them ingame. You need to do that lots and lots until it becomes natural. Playing Starcraft is infinitely harder than watching and following. Your eyes take so many things for granted just remember nothing is automated and you have to do everything yourself. So you always need to be checking up on everything thats yours. And if you havn't scouted/don't know whats going on, then you need to scout. Thats how you learn to scout.
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HELP!!!
whenever i sign into battle net it gives me this message like
we are sorry we could not identify your aplication. please re install starcraft.
it this problem consists you may have a virus!
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Starting an SC division inside of his existing clan could be quite productive. Playing with similarly skilled friends that you can mass game with casually is a great thing, keeps it fun. Especially if any of them actually want to seriously get better. If you have a serious partner it's almost like having a work out buddy to help keep you motivated. It can be fun to have a bunch of friends around the same level to share discoveries with as you get better. I remember when I first found out how to drop units from a dropship while moving (click dship, click U, click on dship) and I told my friends it was awesome.
Whenever you guys get stuck you can post reps here and ask for help. If you play against your friends we can help you both at the same time. Just before you go asking for help make sure you've done a little bit of the pre-requisite research into things like build orders. If you're not performing a build order fairly close to intended then coming here to ask for help won't be very lucrative.
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Now I haven't read everything, and I'm sorry if someone may have already posted something akin to this. I have certain exercises to help me in playing StarCraft. I start a single-player game; create a probe; move the other four probes so one is at the top of the frame, one at the bottom, and one left and one right; and set my nexus/hatchery/CC to macro 1. Once the 5th probe is complete, I send him to the middle of the other 4. Then I select the probe (single left-clicking only -- no drag box to help accuracy), move it to one of the other 4 probes, press 1 to select the nexus/hatchery/CC then select the moving probe again and moving it to a different probe. The game is to keep the probe moving without stopping.
You can come up with various exercises like this.
Another is moving probes to 4 completely different areas on the map. Set each probe to a hot key. Double-press each hot key and try to keep all the probes moving consistently.
Also, a lot of what I've heard around here is that the progamers spam actions during lull periods in order to keep their minds and hands sharp.
Try coming up with various exercises and use BWchart to keep track of your progress. If you're savvy, make your own map that lets you practice (close off the opponent's base with terrain so the comp can't do anything).
Come up with ideas for exercises like these to help you in your weak spots.
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Well, I did what several people suggested and I hosted a noobs only game. Unfortunately, I am a noob, but not as much as a noob as those who are drawn in to such games. I'm a noob, but apparently an upper class of noobs, as someone watching the game put it.
I'll see if I can manage to get a replay up for you guys to see. I'm currently having issues with RepDepot. I put in the info, I click submit, and then it takes me to a white page. Can anyone help? Is it because I'm StarCraft 1.16?
Here's the link for the BattleReports.com download. My "Noobs Only" game Note, it IS StarCraft 1.16.0 since I played it on Battle.net.
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Hey for some reason, I can't download your replay though. I think fighterreplays.com is a better source to upload reps. But once you upload you gota kinda make it public so we can download. As in they'll give you the option in the website.
And to get better, there's no easy way. Learn build orders and practice. Takes a while to get good. A really long while.
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Ok for the last time op: Im offering to coach you to a nice D- on iccup. LOL look for me on iccup.
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On December 31 2008 11:13 malongo wrote:
Ok for the last time op: Im offering to coach you to a nice D- on iccup. LOL look for me on iccup.
I'll take that :D lmao but seriously, right now i'm like 1-4 or somethin and that 1 win was a against a D- Protoss =P (He built 1 gate in his main then did a 2 gate proxy, got gas w/ no core)
Oh and shadow, you had 89 apm that game so psh it's not 50-60. Lol and the other guy had 23. I should make a noobs only game. I feel I seriously need to get a mouse soon.
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Yeaahh...I guess it's been a while since I've had that low APM. Of course, it probably WAS 50-60 last time I checked. I've not had BW Chart for ages.
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im on iccup now ll be there until 2:00 KST
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hmm, at some points, I'm at iCCup too, so if you want to play against some Protoss, just pm me.
But you will find me 100% sure at Garena, Philippine Channel. 7-9pm Korean time.
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Thanks for the offer guys, but I think I'm going to play more, alot more, on Battle.net before I move to ICCup.
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I, apparently, can't play StarCraft seriously without having ridiculous amounts of stress. I was playing a game and doing pretty well, but pretty badly nervously and shaky. My friends started hinting at things I should be doing, like teching up and want not, one did the Jaws theme, I figured Lurkers, since he'd already tried Mutas, I caved under the pressure and quit the game because I literally couldn't handle the stress. Anyone have any advice?
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Try practicing builds/mechanics with a comp or no opponent so there's no pressure. I think if you start a multiplayer game with a comp and remove the comp after the countdown starts, it just gives you the victory message and you can hit 'keep playing'.
Once builds and macro are second nature, you'll have a lot more time to think about strats, unit mixes, etc. while playing.
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One word... practise... if you know you suck at building SCVs, make a stick note that says "MAKE FUCKING SCVs" and place it near your monitor.
Seriously, ppl need replays to give more specific answers.
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It's a matter of my nerves though. Because I can't know what is going on with the other player, I start freaking out and I begin shaking and shit.
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On January 01 2009 12:34 Shadow-Mage wrote:
It's a matter of my nerves though. Because I can't know what is going on with the other player, I start freaking out and I begin shaking and shit.
Rings familiar. You're likely overly defensive. Watch replays, spot your opponent's flaws, and devise a more aggressive battle plan. Try cheesing or rushing, as it more or less evens out your chances against a much stronger player.
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I really have difficulty doing anything offensive. I'm just way too defensive of a player. Which is probably why I loved Terran in the first place. Woo Tanks and Bunkers!
I've also noticed some issues I have when I practice a build order. I finish the build, and then just freeze up because I don't know what to do any more. I actually almost lost to a computer because I did a Fake Double, expanded, and then just....stopped doing anything. It was wonderful having some sort of focus, but after I finished the FD, I just floundered trying to find something to do. I can put the replay up if you guys want.
I did learn something though! Because of that build, I can now get a factory up a decent bit faster.
Finally, everything that I'm doing is more work than fun. Is that a sign or something? Or is this normal for getting better at StarCraft?
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EPT
