Flash Announces (and Retracts) Hiatus From ASL - Page 14

On July 31 2025 23:47 LightSpectra wrote:


"Anti-Soulkey" and "Anti-Zerg" are completely different things. ZvZ is arguably his worst matchup, so maps that are favorable for TvZ and PvZ are perhaps helpful for Soulkey because it knocks out other Zerg players that he'd have more difficulty with. Meanwhile his skill vT and vP is so high that a moderate map imbalance doesn't slow him down.

On August 01 2025 00:21 A.Alm wrote:


i was just showing the irony of his pride to agree on some stupid thing with progamers, i dont care about ur arguments about this other stupid jinjin drama thing.

On August 19 2025 06:00 mtcn77 wrote:
LOOOL, even the terran crybaby Artosis acknowledges Shuttle's PvZ prowess in ASL Day 2 qualifiers. You guys are just plain wrong. Shuttle is the new PvZ God.

On August 19 2025 08:41 RowdierBob wrote:
Flash has gone soft. Never thought I’d see the day.

On August 02 2025 00:41 mtcn77 wrote:
I love how he steals ideas and tries to keep his cool, "Things have always been hard on zerg". Cry me a river.
I told before, protoss will have to rewind the clock back to the start of the millenium. No protoss has ever respected zerg back then, no reason to do it now. Just drop the FE bullshit. This isn't pvt. True vs barracks in the last asl is the real way forward. Compromised lategame, huge early game potential, the way Hero beat jyj with that last zerglings when jyj buckled and didn't make any more marines.
It might lose games, but even soulkey doesn't mop the floor with jyj until he switches back to mech and gets consumed by broodlings. Somethings got to give and you have to be ready to harness the situation.

On August 20 2025 02:00 Ze'ev wrote:
Take pvz back to 2000? I mean personally I always try to play oldschool strategies (for ex: I go hydra lurker zvt every game), I'm very much a fan of and champion for 1 gate tech or 2 gate openers in pvz. But protoss most definitely respected zerg back then, and feared them. Pvz became (marginally) more protoss favoured after forge expand builds became common. I do think protoss should practice and integrate 1 base builds more in pvz to keep zergs more honest, but ultimately its not going to solve modern pvz.

On August 20 2025 08:21 WombaT wrote:

Oh it absolutely will, mtcn77 knows better than well, Protoss pros and like 17 years of meta or whatever it is now

On August 20 2025 10:24 mtcn77 wrote:

Not that I know better, it could also be my selective memory, protoss never lost in macro setting in the games I watched. There were superb Archon vs Ultralisk tussles.
Our friend also recalls pvz got better after fast forge expand. I say it is wrong, you have to be bisu to make it work. He also made corsair dt work, that doesn't mean it is the best strategy for the task.
I also have a very different hierarchy. Many people say z>p>t. I have never felt other than z<p<t when I was watching.
PS: like I learned recently watching Artosis in preliminary ASL matches, Korean pros don't sit and wait when they know they are better than their opponents, rather they play aggressively. Such styles should be reserved to high tier players. That is what I also witnessed in 2000s. That is what I mean PvZ was very different back then, protoss players never stayed in base. We never had zergs like we do now. In a way zerg had a more treacherous progress, but you could never tell where we started from looking at where we are.

On August 20 2025 14:56 goody153 wrote:

Dont overpool build break most of the 1 base rushes against zerg iirc ? It seems fairly common build nowadays for zerg

On August 20 2025 15:10 mtcn77 wrote:

Might. All I'm saying is there is a high correlation with what I saw and what Artosis says about the better player demonstrating aggression towards the lesser player even today. All things said and done, I NEVER saw protoss lose on the defensive, that is because they never respected zerg in the past. That is, they were always on the offensive. Maybe we might be looking through retrospective determinism seeing it wasn't so one sided looking at the results, but results are one thing, the gameplay was another. It didn't look that way in the past, protoss always went head first and zerg only survived by the slimmest of chances. Even then, it wasn't by strategy that got zerg pull through into late game. Zerg just limped.

On August 21 2025 00:23 goody153 wrote:

Idk man.

Protoss players can lose on the aggressive (assuming you meant that "i never saw protoss lose on the defense" cause it made no sense in the paragraph). You know the gateway expand where you start churning zealots as early as possible sending them towards the zerg base

Even Mini who is basically the masterclass at doing that opening sometimes still losses to zerg when he makes a missstep and the zealots dies to the zerglings too early and they just straightup lose the game. That's the most aggressive high result opening a pvz can do nowadays and they can still be punished if the protoss missteps

Even if you meant the opposite protoss being defensive never losses instead can still lose easily to earlier zergling timing builds on closer spawn maps. Even on big 4 player maps cause it is harder to scout especially if they go greedy earlier nexus builds

The thing about 1 base vs 2 base is that you can still open at 2 base style while being aggressive and from time to time it just leads to wins and even victories from the opening alone to weaker players (just from better zealot-probe micro plus just skills or skill issue on the other side) and if it doesnt pay off you can just transition to a macro game which is waaaaaaaaay less risk than just opening with 1 base rushes and you cant get back from there just cause the zerg scouted it with a drone

Every just scouting kinda counters alot of the early 1 base pushes nowadays too which is a norm on every race to send a worker scout everytime. While stuff like midmap 1 base 2 rax still works but it's pretty rare imo like people just learned to defend it well like zergs arent even bothered when terrans builds a bunker on their natural. Pretty much even for zerg why 7 pool or the more riskier 4 pool you rarely see them anymore people got better at defending them with workers

Like seriously people just pull workers nowadays against 1 bases and if they defend it they are pretty much ahead with the extra natural CC/Hatchery/Nexus

Like honestly if you are a better player and you could macro against them there is not alot of incentive to do 1 base pushes when that kinda equalizes the chance of the other player instead

But that's imo that's pretty much just my limited understanding what they do as well since i'm not a pro either (nor even a protoss player)

On August 21 2025 01:43 WombaT wrote:
For those not aware, you’re not arguing with someone who advocates for mixing in one base builds as part of your suite, but someone who actively thinks fast expanding PvZ is just outright bad

On August 21 2025 01:43 WombaT wrote:
For those not aware, you’re not arguing with someone who advocates for mixing in one base builds as part of your suite, but someone who actively thinks fast expanding PvZ is just outright bad

On August 21 2025 02:10 mtcn77 wrote:

I meant the protoss never played defensive and zergs chances were deemed zero the longer the game went. It also looked that way, protoss just pulverized hatchery after hatchery. You just saw zerg move out of the base and - there goes another hatchery - it simultaneously meant zerg was under defending its bases.

On August 21 2025 02:19 mtcn77 wrote:

I never said fast expanding is bad, fast forge expand(usually how it is done) is wrong in my head. Protoss can expand every bit as quick as zerg, but I don't think forge expands are a good idea. Gateways are the best early game building. Nexuses are the cheapest base for expansion. I'm trying to optimise my way out of forge expanding in general just to prove people wrong protoss is better than they think.