EPTLitmus is somewhat of a wildcard to me. It looks like army movement could become rather restrained after like ~10 minutes and there's a lot of gas on the map. So either games could become somewhat stale after a while (think Neo Dark Origin) or we might see the best games ever with long and methodical battles where players compete for the central expansions.
ASL20 Preliminary Maps - Page 3
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Kraekkling
618 Posts
Litmus is somewhat of a wildcard to me. It looks like army movement could become rather restrained after like ~10 minutes and there's a lot of gas on the map. So either games could become somewhat stale after a while (think Neo Dark Origin) or we might see the best games ever with long and methodical battles where players compete for the central expansions. | ||
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tankgirl
Canada439 Posts
please just no more eclipse i will be personally undertaking a Terminator 2: Judgement Day-style crusade to see that every single surviving copy of Eclipse is incinerated in a volcano | ||
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M3t4PhYzX
Poland4235 Posts
On June 16 2025 21:36 Freakling wrote: The point about ramps used to be true, at least to a degree, before 1.22. With the new ramps released there's a lot more raw tile material to work with now – though the new ramps are consistently so badly bugged (mostly with cliff vision due to complete disregard for proper terrain level flags on the unwalkable subtiles, but many are also too narrow to allow proper unit pathing for single-width ramps) that they aren't actually the simple "plug-in-and-play" solution they were meant to be… The fact that these exact bugs aren't fixed in most of these maps speaks to a point, that's probably more important: That many map makers aren't actually that skilled on the technical level, or at least unwilling to spend the necessary time on their maps to properly design and debug their terrain – which explains perfectly well, why Ash and Ice are the most under-used terrain types: Both have very specific downsides and requirements, to design well for to avoid these issues, which makes bringing a map to a playable state, within acceptable aesthetic constraints, more work-intensive as well as requiring some very specific knowledge about certain custom terrain blends, than any other tileset. Well.. that is indeed, a bummer. Thank You very much for explaining it so well.  | ||
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M3t4PhYzX
Poland4235 Posts
On June 16 2025 21:50 Freakling wrote: Ash maps looking like a barren wasteland can be an aesthtic choice of its own, though. It's not like most of these maps have sophisticated decorative concepts, or terrain mechanics constrictions, that would necessarily require any certain tileset to be used. It should also be noted, that tileset choices for Korean competitive maps have become a lot more varied since 1.22 came out:
That's interesting. Appreciate the information. | ||
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Crimson)S(hadow
Philippines596 Posts
On June 15 2025 05:34 Kraekkling wrote: i really like (4) Knockout so far the thingy in front of the naturals is a small area of low ground this will affect stuff like hydra busts in pvz and sunken busts in tvz + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](https://i.ibb.co/0RBnP4vX/3535t.png) i agree, circuit breaker is a classic map, and this little innovation will hopefully balance out the anticlimactic parts of tvz and zvp. but on the other hand, it might cause some other issues; lurker contains spaced so that goons have to shoot from low ground will be terrible to play against. only time will tell as pros develop strategies on the map | ||
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Urth
United States1252 Posts
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GTR
51548 Posts
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prosatan
Romania8526 Posts
On June 17 2025 14:44 GTR wrote: i only just realised litmus has a second gas in the main lmao Yeap, one with 1500 gas and one normal one , with 5000 gas ! | ||
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Ideas
United States8161 Posts
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goody153
44238 Posts
Cant wait for pros to play games on them | ||
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Toshinou-Kyouko
Philippines405 Posts
On June 17 2025 14:44 GTR wrote: i only just realised litmus has a second gas in the main lmao possible buff for protoss? will we see more DT/Dark Archon plays? | ||
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goody153
44238 Posts
On June 17 2025 14:44 GTR wrote: i only just realised litmus has a second gas in the main lmao Oh wow. The new season feels even more fun. I dont remember proscene getting 2 gas | ||
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prosatan
Romania8526 Posts
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Kraekkling
618 Posts
what the heck, I feel deceived did everyone else know? | ||
FlaShFTW
United States10315 Posts
On June 16 2025 05:15 ScoutWBF wrote: Does TvZ need a buffed natural sunken line? It feels like the Terran only has a very small window to even bust the Zerg and struggles winning before Defilers are out and it's a huge disadvantage from there. Terrans overwhelmingly have huge advantages over Zerg in general. On most normal maps, Terrans have a 55-58% win rate. It's very difficult for Zerg in the matchup. Soulkey is the only Zerg right now who's making ZvT look easy, but it's not. Second gas in the main is interesting... means Zerg gets more options in ZvT with 3 gas and taking a 3rd base means 4 gas now for a short period of time before the 2nd geyser is exhausted, so gives them timing windows. Triple gas in PvZ means more gas intensiive army comps like heavier templar/goon concepts which will be interesting. Not entirely sure how it'll impact TvP that much yet... More tanks for Terran I guess? | ||
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ThunderJunk
United States725 Posts
About time we got some anti-zerg bias in the map pool  | ||
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A.Alm
Sweden534 Posts
On June 18 2025 09:52 FlaShFTW wrote: Terrans overwhelmingly have huge advantages over Zerg in general. On most normal maps, Terrans have a 55-58% win rate. It's very difficult for Zerg in the matchup. Soulkey is the only Zerg right now who's making ZvT look easy, but it's not. Second gas in the main is interesting... means Zerg gets more options in ZvT with 3 gas and taking a 3rd base means 4 gas now for a short period of time before the 2nd geyser is exhausted, so gives them timing windows. Triple gas in PvZ means more gas intensiive army comps like heavier templar/goon concepts which will be interesting. Not entirely sure how it'll impact TvP that much yet... More tanks for Terran I guess? "terrans overwhelmingly have huge advantages over zerg in general" - yet the last 5 years of ASL tournaments (10 seasons) have a TvZ winrate of 50~%. The last 5 ASL's also always had atleast 2 (avg 3~) zergs in the ro8 (so not only SK). These maps are worse for zerg, not better bro. I think these maps look really cool, can't wait to try them out. | ||
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FlaShFTW
United States10315 Posts
On June 18 2025 18:43 A.Alm wrote: "terrans overwhelmingly have huge advantages over zerg in general" - yet the last 5 years of ASL tournaments (10 seasons) have a TvZ winrate of 50~%. The last 5 ASL's also always had atleast 2 (avg 3~) zergs in the ro8 (so not only SK). These maps are worse for zerg, not better bro. I think these maps look really cool, can't wait to try them out. Using ASL stats which are low sample size compared to the hundreds of games the pros play on for daily proleague and sponmatches is a very dumb argument. Eloboard clearly lays out that by and large, Zergs struggle against Terran. There are some maps where Zerg will have better times against Terran like 2p maps or Metropolis, Radeon, but they get wrecked on maps like Citadel, Retro, Vermeer, Pole Star. TvZ winrates by ASL: ASL19: 14-16. Without Soulkey: 12-9 SSL: 14-15. Without Soulkey: 11-4 ASL17: 11-15. Without Soulkey: 11-14 ASL16: 18-18. Without Soulkey: 13-11 | ||
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Lazyer
United States365 Posts
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6811 Posts
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![[image loading]](https://i.ibb.co/JjHVN5ky/2-Typology-1-00.jpg)
![[image loading]](https://i.ibb.co/pBQbpPkN/Terraform-2-3.jpg)
![[image loading]](https://i.ibb.co/r27DcwFD/2-High-Noon-1-1.jpg)
