EPTASL20 Preliminary Maps - Page 6
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Ideas
United States8181 Posts
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Kraekkling
761 Posts
![[image loading]](https://i.ibb.co/q3dkjr2f/6426245232354t.png) | ||
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goody153
44309 Posts
On July 01 2025 01:23 Kraekkling wrote: Screaming sea and litmus is here lets goooooo | ||
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium7195 Posts
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TMNT
3385 Posts
On June 30 2025 20:12 RJBTVYOUTUBE wrote: I actually think that Screaming Sea is good for zerg. Bridge section is ultimate Lurker hold heaven vs protoss and terran. I think the map screw protoss the most. Yeah I said island maps where Zerg is trapped on one starting base is hard for them. Semi island maps where they can still fast expand to a 2nd and 3rd base normally are arguably better for them actually. Re Screaming Sea it's hard to tell until we see the pros play. One thing I haven't seen much mentioning is the rush distance. It's even longer than cross spawn rush distance on 4p maps. I can definitely see 12 Nexus as the default opening for Protoss here against both T and Z, so that gives them a huge advantage. Well... at least until T and Z see it and go CC first and 3 Hatch before Pool themselves. | ||
FlaShFTW
United States10570 Posts
I'm really excited though. The new maps have some good unique features about them that will hopefully continue to push the meta game in a healthy, positive direction. All eyes are on Knock Out to see if the new adjustments and changes are what will shape map making for the next few years. | ||
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TMNT
3385 Posts
Mini vs Light on Screaming Sea. As expected, it's Nexus first vs CC first, although both players send a scout very early (both scout at 6 supplies lol), probably to proxy/find the other's proxy lol. Light has 4 cloaked Wraiths at 7 minutes lol and kills Mini's Shuttle en route. I didn't realize that the naturals of this map are on high ground, that combined with the long distance rush will ensure greed + unorthodox harass play instead of any kinds of regular timing push. Light's fleet of cloaked Wraiths kills Mini's 3rd easily (by killing the Observer). From Light's pov, he builds a bunker after he builds 2 Starport and only has 4 marines as fighting units the whole time. That's how greedy his build is and how he's able to mass Wraiths that early. Mini goes for early Carrier play, understandable as it looks like no one wants to cross the bridge. Light counters by mass Wraiths mass Dropships + Tank Goliath play. Apparently Tanks dropped at the island behind the natural can hit the mineral line from there (Protoss probably will demand fixing). Based on this game my initial thought is this map will favor Terran in TvP actually. The early Starport play allows Light to completely shut down threats from Shuttle and take an early 3rd island base himself. Coupled with the economic boost from CC first, he's able to kill Mini before Carriers even get out on the map. And why is it different to traditional island or semi-island maps where Protoss tend to destroy Terran? Because of the rush distance and high ground nat. On maps like 76 or Troy, Terran can't get his nat up that quickly but here he just needs to make sure there's no proxy . | ||
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FlaShFTW
United States10570 Posts
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ThunderJunk
United States741 Posts
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Kraekkling
761 Posts
Light vs Queen Light vs Mini | ||
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A.Alm
Sweden561 Posts
On June 28 2025 05:27 TMNT wrote: I don't want to dive into the can of worm that is balance talk, but it is true that your argument is not very logical (or in FlashFTW's word, dumb, which imo is unnecessarily harsh). Your argument being: + Show Spoiler + "terrans overwhelmingly have huge advantages over zerg in general" - yet the last 5 years of ASL tournaments (10 seasons) have a TvZ winrate of 50~%. The last 5 ASL's also always had atleast 2 (avg 3~) zergs in the ro8 (so not only SK). In fact this is a very common line of thought among BW fans: "race X has Y players in Ro8/4 in this or that ASL, why are they talking about balance" - as if there is a causative relationship betwwen the two. With the cup format of ASL, the win rate or race distribution will always converge towards 50% and 33/33/33. Because even if there are balance issues, tier 1 players will still overcome the disadvantage in the weak matchup of their race to beat tier 2 players and enter the next round. Say you have something like this in the earlier rounds: - Hero > sSak , Queen > Mong , Soulkey > Barrack - Light > Action , Rush > JD , Royal > Killer There you have exactly 50% win rate but it tells you nothing about balance of the matchup. And the reason for the 33/33/33 distribution could very well be about Zerg beating Protoss to enter Ro8 (which if you check recent ASLs, have happenned quite abundantly), so once again it says nothing about the balance of TvZ. I don't think ASL will always have a 50%~ MU win-rate and a 33/33/33 race distribution regardless of map pool, but rather that they get that from a well balanced map pool (typically only one crazy none-balanced map that no one plays until the ro8 anyways). But let's just agree to disagree. I think that ASL cares about the race distribution and MU win-rate from their previous tournaments (among other things, of course) when creating a new map pool, and i think that's why ASL 5 had bad terran maps (they went a bit overboard lol) after Flash won ASL 2 (TvT finals even), 3 and 4. I also think Queens 4 ASL victories in a row makes them create worse zerg maps for this season. And if Queen was the only zerg doing well (which issn't the case), then they'd prob keep that in mind too. Anyways, how likely is it Blizzard updates their ladder map pools when the final maps are released? | ||
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goody153
44309 Posts
On July 01 2025 20:26 TMNT wrote: New maps being played today. Mini vs Light on Screaming Sea. As expected, it's Nexus first vs CC first, although both players send a scout very early (both scout at 6 supplies lol), probably to proxy/find the other's proxy lol. Light has 4 cloaked Wraiths at 7 minutes lol and kills Mini's Shuttle en route. I didn't realize that the naturals of this map are on high ground, that combined with the long distance rush will ensure greed + unorthodox harass play instead of any kinds of regular timing push. Light's fleet of cloaked Wraiths kills Mini's 3rd easily (by killing the Observer). From Light's pov, he builds a bunker after he builds 2 Starport and only has 4 marines as fighting units the whole time. That's how greedy his build is and how he's able to mass Wraiths that early. Mini goes for early Carrier play, understandable as it looks like no one wants to cross the bridge. Light counters by mass Wraiths mass Dropships + Tank Goliath play. Apparently Tanks dropped at the island behind the natural can hit the mineral line from there (Protoss probably will demand fixing). Based on this game my initial thought is this map will favor Terran in TvP actually. The early Starport play allows Light to completely shut down threats from Shuttle and take an early 3rd island base himself. Coupled with the economic boost from CC first, he's able to kill Mini before Carriers even get out on the map. And why is it different to traditional island or semi-island maps where Protoss tend to destroy Terran? Because of the rush distance and high ground nat. On maps like 76 or Troy, Terran can't get his nat up that quickly but here he just needs to make sure there's no proxy . Do we have vods for the new maps played ? Kinda excited to watch it Nevermind Kraekkling posted the vods. Cant wait for the casted version | ||
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goody153
44309 Posts
Man im so happy watching wraith dropship vs protoss. Suddenly air control is no longer just a zvp thing anymore in that map Seriously i've never seen Wraith being played as how they are probably imagined to be played some kind of air support which it was in the Light game. | ||
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RJBTVYOUTUBE
Netherlands1328 Posts
On July 02 2025 07:16 A.Alm wrote: I don't think ASL will always have a 50%~ MU win-rate and a 33/33/33 race distribution regardless of map pool, but rather that they get that from a well balanced map pool (typically only one crazy none-balanced map that no one plays until the ro8 anyways). But let's just agree to disagree. I think that ASL cares about the race distribution and MU win-rate from their previous tournaments (among other things, of course) when creating a new map pool, and i think that's why ASL 5 had bad terran maps (they went a bit overboard lol) after Flash won ASL 2 (TvT finals even), 3 and 4. I also think Queens 4 ASL victories in a row makes them create worse zerg maps for this season. And if Queen was the only zerg doing well (which issn't the case), then they'd prob keep that in mind too. Anyways, how likely is it Blizzard updates their ladder map pools when the final maps are released? Queen only won 2 in a row.. not 4. Did you mean Soulkey? | ||
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A.Alm
Sweden561 Posts
On July 02 2025 17:50 RJBTVYOUTUBE wrote: Queen only won 2 in a row.. not 4. Did you mean Soulkey? Haha yeah i mean Soulkey :D | ||
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M3t4PhYzX
Poland4298 Posts
Thanks! Much appreciated. | ||
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Kraekkling
761 Posts
https://vod.sooplive.co.kr/player/165112865 at 52:00 roaring currents, litmus | ||
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M3t4PhYzX
Poland4298 Posts
On July 06 2025 12:13 Kraekkling wrote: Soulkey vs Mini https://vod.sooplive.co.kr/player/165112865 at 52:00 roaring currents, litmus Banger games. | ||
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prosatan
Romania9419 Posts
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prosatan
Romania9419 Posts
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