EPTSorry for Off-topic here, but I just read the names here and Fantasy is missing again :D
ASL 19 Pre-season Power-rankings/tier List - Page 4
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MotherOfRunes
Germany2862 Posts
Sorry for Off-topic here, but I just read the names here and Fantasy is missing again :D | ||
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cheesehuehue
Vatican City State90 Posts
On March 14 2025 00:25 RJBTVYOUTUBE wrote: Bisu has only played bits of ladder for the past 3 months and I think his shape is worse than ever as a result. he has played zero actual pro vs pro matches Bisu was arguably the best protoss for most of the second half of 2024. For some weird reason no one discussed about it, but he spent most of that period on the top of the eloboard ranking. I don't know what condition he is in right now, but Artosis just cast two matches of him against Speed. If I were to judge just based on those games, I'd say he seems to be in pretty good shape. Of course it's too small of a sample size to know for sure, but at least there is not glaring sign that he sucks right now. | ||
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RJBTVYOUTUBE
Netherlands1072 Posts
On March 16 2025 23:13 Ideas wrote: Yea protoss seems to just be plagued with chronic chokers: best, bisu, stork, snow... all perform much worse in offline than online usually. Only Mini and Rain have been able to win an offline tournament since remastered launched jeez. Even during kespa stork and bisu choked a lot in individual leagues. Bisu totally dominated proleague but never made it past Ro8 after like 2009. I dont think Bisu was a choker. Bisu brought a protoss revolutionary meta along with him into pro play, a meta he was very good at. But naturally others will figure that meta out and craft their counter metas, which evolved into completely new metas. Once a player's meta has been figured out they start to look worse, because all of a sudden they are no longer spearheading the strategic development. They are now following in the footsteps of a new strategic leader. and that new meta might be one they are not as good at as someone else. We saw this when SoMa had his break through. He changed zerg and became fhe strategic leader of zerg. He immediately played in the top 4 of tournaments until others adopted his meta and started to build their own metas out of it or in response to it. SoMa however was still a top zerg, just couldnt get far in tournaments anymore because people had figured out ways to counter him and his strengths. Something similar happened when 2 base carrier and arbiter got completely figured out. As a result we saw a shift to a shuttle centric meta with a strong focus on reaver and templar. And then terran figured out a response to that, which made certain terran players stand out much more than others. This happens every meta shift. A new player rises to the top figuring out how to play the meta the best, but they might not be the best at the meta that develops in response to that. On March 17 2025 08:27 MotherOfRunes wrote: So I had a lot going on in RL and couldn't watch the last 4 ASL seasons. I just remember that 2023 Fantasy returned to Brood War and he was playing really well on ladder. It got me super excited. When I went through the VODs of the last 3 ASL seasons I couldn't find his name anywhere. So what happened to him? Did he quit again? Is he losing in qualifiers? Sorry for Off-topic here, but I just read the names here and Fantasy is missing again :D Fantasy works in pro league of legends. He only played because he was without a team for that year. He played for a month in 2024 during the mid season break for pro league of legends. | ||
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vTv.Marine
Canada151 Posts
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bw2ku
24 Posts
On March 17 2025 12:03 vTv.Marine wrote: Snow is amazing, and I like him a lot, but if you’ve been following him recently, he doesn’t seem to be in his best shape. I definitely wouldn’t put him in S right now. I would even go as far as putting Mini in front of him as of now Not sure what games you've been watching, but Snow's been destroying everyone, including soulkey, at least in the last couple weeks. JD and Action took turns fighting him yesterday or the day before and they each lost to him 4:0 or something along those lines. | ||
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vTv.Marine
Canada151 Posts
On March 17 2025 14:49 bw2ku wrote: Not sure what games you've been watching, but Snow's been destroying everyone, including soulkey, at least in the last couple weeks. JD and Action took turns fighting him yesterday or the day before and they each lost to him 4:0 or something along those lines. That might be possible we might not have watched the same games. I still think Mini is in better shape than him right now. | ||
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RJBTVYOUTUBE
Netherlands1072 Posts
On March 17 2025 17:34 vTv.Marine wrote: That might be possible we might not have watched the same games. I still think Mini is in better shape than him right now. Mini is definitely not in better shape based on their results. SnOw's been ranked #1 on eloboard for over a month now and Mini hasn't cracked top 6 in 3 months. ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/kowKiXg.png) | ||
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Soft_General_5023
110 Posts
ridiculous | ||
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!Gr33zyPuG!
Philippines27 Posts
On March 17 2025 12:03 vTv.Marine wrote: Snow is amazing, and I like him a lot, but if you’ve been following him recently, he doesn’t seem to be in his best shape. I definitely wouldn’t put him in S right now. I would even go as far as putting Mini in front of him as of now This would be true 2 weeks ago but right now Snow is in top shape. He is destryoying Ts and especially Zs at the moment, if he continues this type of performance, he will be ASL champ. Notable series this past week: Snow vs Light 5:4 Snow vs Soulkey 5:4 Snow vs Queen 4:1 Snow vs Jaedong 4:2 Snow vs Speed 4:0 Snow vs Light 4:0 Snow vs Speed 4:1 Snow/Mini vs Royal/Speed 9:0 (5 wins for Snow) Snow/Rush vs Jaedong/Hero 7:2 (6W-1L for Snow) At the time of this writing he was against Light which he lost 2-4 (Light went cheese mode that series) and proceeded to 4:0 Jaedong after | ||
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!Gr33zyPuG!
Philippines27 Posts
This would be true 2 weeks ago but right now Snow is in top shape. He is destryoying Ts and especially Zs at the moment, if he continues this type of performance, he will be ASL champ. Notable series this past week: Snow vs Light 5:4 Snow vs Soulkey 5:4 Snow vs Queen 4:1 Snow vs Jaedong 4:2 Snow vs Speed 4:0 Snow vs Light 4:0 Snow vs Speed 4:1 Snow/Mini vs Royal/Speed 9:0 (5 wins for Snow) Snow/Rush vs Jaedong/Hero 7:2 (6W-1L for Snow) At the time of this writing he was against Light which he lost 2-4 (Light went cheese mode that series) and proceeded to 4:0 Jaedong after This isn't even including the spon matches he had with Royal, Barracks, his recent win against BTS in SCSL, the recent proleagues he joined in. Man is destroying everyone, I remember Sharp declining his request for a spon | ||
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RogerChillingworth
Chad3098 Posts
Best seems like the strongest mechanical Protoss but is a human slide whistle in these tournaments. Mini would have at least 1 more ASL championship if he didn't bring a samurai sword into his own balloon shop 50% of the time. etc. etc. This kind of volatility makes for exciting tournaments but I'm hoping for a bit more this season because, within the volatility, it's becoming predictable that the less consistent players continue their trends of inconsistency while the regulars continue to populate the ro4. For me, I'd love to see Mini and Best deliver their A game and make it to ro4 or even win. Like really, maybe Best needs to double up on his vitamin B or something. Then we'll see him just fucking eat people. I would like a Zerg like True to show some different, creative things and outperform expectations. And also, see an up-and-comer like Speed make ro8 for a cool storyline to follow. | ||
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Emnjay808
United States10664 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + | ||
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mtcn77
Turkey648 Posts
On March 18 2025 04:01 RogerChillingworth wrote: I feel like it's pretty hard to make a tier list for ASL players because everyone shows up in different shape all the time. Like Snow 4-3'd SoulKey in a showmatch recently but wouldn't be surprised to see him lose in the ro24. Best seems like the strongest mechanical Protoss but is a human slide whistle in these tournaments. Mini would have at least 1 more ASL championship if he didn't bring a samurai sword into his own balloon shop 50% of the time. etc. etc. This kind of volatility makes for exciting tournaments but I'm hoping for a bit more this season because, within the volatility, it's becoming predictable that the less consistent players continue their trends of inconsistency while the regulars continue to populate the ro4. For me, I'd love to see Mini and Best deliver their A game and make it to ro4 or even win. Like really, maybe Best needs to double up on his vitamin B or something. Then we'll see him just fucking eat people. I would like a Zerg like True to show some different, creative things and outperform expectations. And also, see an up-and-comer like Speed make ro8 for a cool storyline to follow. I really root for Best. He is Motive without the early game hiccups and better lategame. Mini has this Flash vibe where it looks almost too easy due to some superhuman strength like superman's xray vision cutting through their plans. Personally, I like Best's charges. You really feel the enemy expects it and it comes crashing either way. | ||
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RogerChillingworth
Chad3098 Posts
On March 18 2025 07:39 mtcn77 wrote: I really root for Best. He is Motive without the early game hiccups and better lategame. Mini has this Flash vibe where it looks almost too easy due to some superhuman strength like superman's xray vision cutting through their plans. Personally, I like Best's charges. You really feel the enemy expects it and it comes crashing either way. Totally agree. And yeah Best's charges are sweet. Gonna order a set of Depends for every Terran this season. On March 18 2025 06:17 Emnjay808 wrote: Artosis put Snow in B tier. that’s one way to farm engagement. + Show Spoiler + These lists are always so subjective. Tosis is clearly a Bisu and Rain stan but I'm not feelin it. Everyone's got their people tho. | ||
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cheesehuehue
Vatican City State90 Posts
Some random win rates on eloboard the last 12 months: - Soulkey: 61.6%. - Snow: 59.8% - Hero: 52.9% - Mini 52.7% Last 3 months: - Snow: 62.6%, 257 games - Soulkey: 60.5%, 129 games - Hero: 55.9%, 245 games - Mini 51.3%, 226 games | ||
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Nirli
Bulgaria378 Posts
I'm tired boss  | ||
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mtcn77
Turkey648 Posts
On March 18 2025 12:11 cheesehuehue wrote: I don't understand Artosis' obsession with Hero. He always mentions him right after mentioning Soulkey and states they are almost at the same level, which is in no way true. He also put Snow and Mind together in tier B, and Speed together with Barracks in C. Also, Mini has been in terrible shape for over half a year, but somehow he puts him in the "Could win ASL" tier. For someone who lives and breaths BW, he has some terrible takes. Some random win rates on eloboard the last 12 months: - Soulkey: 61.6%. - Snow: 59.8% - Hero: 52.9% - Mini 52.7% Last 3 months: - Snow: 62.6%, 257 games - Soulkey: 60.5%, 129 games - Hero: 55.9%, 245 games - Mini 51.3%, 226 games I think Artosis uses them as McGuffin to hide his tesagi bias. | ||
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Miragee
8619 Posts
On March 18 2025 12:11 cheesehuehue wrote: I don't understand Artosis' obsession with Hero. He always mentions him right after mentioning Soulkey and states they are almost at the same level, which is in no way true. He also put Snow and Mind together in tier B, and Speed together with Barracks in C. Also, Mini has been in terrible shape for over half a year, but somehow he puts him in the "Could win ASL" tier. For someone who lives and breaths BW, he has some terrible takes. I remember a friend sending me a clip of him discussing his wishlist for balance changes. I couldn't tell to what extent he was serious but his ideas would have obliterated any semblance of balance. So yeah, I agree with the bolded part.^^ To his defense: This whole tier list thing is mostly about gut feelings. You can back up your list with statistics all you want, ladder/sponmatch statistics don't really translate to ASL performance. For example, Snow has been dominant outside of ASL before but couldn't make it past the Ro8. Most of the time, Mini seems to perform worse than Snow online but offline he almost always seems to be the more dangerous contender (for others and himself). In the end, despite recent win statistics, personal traits such as playstyle, practice regime, experience offline, strenghts/wekeanesses etc. can easily be used as arguments to bump or drop any given player a tier or two... | ||
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iloveav
Poland1479 Posts
S: Soulkey. A: Snow, Mini, Light, Rain. B: Everyone else. C: Stork, YSC, speed, scan, Tyson, rush. D: BTS, skey, Hyun. F: Me :D. I have only kept up with the scene a bit thou. | ||
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TMNT
3113 Posts
On March 18 2025 01:14 !Gr33zyPuG! wrote: This would be true 2 weeks ago but right now Snow is in top shape. He is destryoying Ts and especially Zs at the moment, if he continues this type of performance, he will be ASL champ. Notable series this past week: Snow vs Light 5:4 Snow vs Soulkey 5:4 Snow vs Queen 4:1 Snow vs Jaedong 4:2 Snow vs Speed 4:0 Snow vs Light 4:0 Snow vs Speed 4:1 Snow/Mini vs Royal/Speed 9:0 (5 wins for Snow) Snow/Rush vs Jaedong/Hero 7:2 (6W-1L for Snow) At the time of this writing he was against Light which he lost 2-4 (Light went cheese mode that series) and proceeded to 4:0 Jaedong after I think he lost 2-4 to Light yesterday. There are just so many series that were not recorded, possibly because one player was playing offstream, possibly because eloboard couldn't keep track of everything. I think he has been in worse shape (compared to the dominance he had around 2023-2024) since the birth of his second child. So is Light. But he would always gonna win against JD, Queen, Royal, Speed in 7 games series anyway. The big tests will always be Soulkey, Light and to an extent Hero. | ||
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