EPT![[image loading]](https://i.postimg.cc/wjGsQWDK/FACTS.jpg)
same player, piloting both races, z is 300 mmr higher, even tho protoss is supposed to be similar to terran :p
Strudel has proven that P is harder than Z
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XenOsky
Chile2277 Posts
same player, piloting both races, z is 300 mmr higher, even tho protoss is supposed to be similar to terran :p | ||
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SCRVN
80 Posts
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Soulforged
Latvia918 Posts
Any race can roll a set of easier-to-execute-than-to-stop strategies to S...they just are likely to fall off soon after. | ||
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Nirli
Bulgaria372 Posts
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M3t4PhYzX
Poland4203 Posts
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XenOsky
Chile2277 Posts
On December 26 2024 02:21 Soulforged wrote: The B/A range is less about your race and more about your chosen strategies. Any race can roll a set of easier-to-execute-than-to-stop strategies to S...they just are likely to fall off soon after. i do not agree, i think that mechanics and game sense is the key factor between 1800 and 2100 mmr. if the player has the exact same skill and same game sense, zerg is going to perform better than p in most cases if not all cases... (im tlaking amateurs, dont get here with 'soulkey bla bla bla', 'snow bla bla bla' shit pls...) for years ive discused with conan and zety that z is 300 mmr higher in ladder than p with same skill, strudel unintentionnally proved me right... | ||
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Soulforged
Latvia918 Posts
But when the difference is good 300 MMR, I'm just going to assume that either the player has vastly more experience with one race than the other, or that they play one of them aggressively, while the other defensively-reactively. Do you know how much effort Strudel put into playing both P and Z? Because 200-300 MMR difference is standard for players who rarely offrace. | ||
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XenOsky
Chile2277 Posts
On December 26 2024 09:33 Soulforged wrote: Or maybe their style chosen playstyle just fit that race more, there's a lot of factors. But when the difference is good 300 MMR, I'm just going to assume that either the player has vastly more experience with one race than the other, or that they play one of them aggressively, while the other defensively-reactively. Do you know how much effort Strudel put into playing both P and Z? Because 200-300 MMR difference is standard for players who rarely offrace. or mb... making hidra and 3 minutes coinflip of a match up, is kind of easier than battling 2-1 or up terran, and hidra bust and zergling all ins... dunno , just a guess... | ||
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XenOsky
Chile2277 Posts
On December 26 2024 09:33 Soulforged wrote: Do you know how much effort Strudel put into playing both P and Z? Because 200-300 MMR difference is standard for players who rarely offrace. all i know is that he got 100 dls for getting A rank with z. and he is to get arround 500 if he does the same with P. dunno about him but for me in terms of effort 500>100 any day... | ||
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Soulforged
Latvia918 Posts
If a player is getting 2k mmr making hydra, and 1.8k stopping allins as P, well, they could e.g. center gate their way to 2k mmr and get stuck at 1.8k defending allins going for lategame plays as Z. If center gate is a bad example, I'm sure there's a bunch of speedlot or mass goon sair skip cheesy stuff that works up to 2k... I guess I'll TLDR my viewpoint and leave this thread: A player can maximize their MMR by going for aggressive plays at the limit of what their mechanics can comfortable handle. And a lot of people trying different races start with those type of strategies, because they're simpler and the player is more familiar with them than with something that requires proactive scouting and adaptation. Then they go on and say that race X is easy, when that isn't a fair comparison. all i know is that he got 100 dls for getting A rank with z. and he is to get arround 500 if he does the same with P. dunno about him but for me in terms of effort 500>100 any day... Is he brand new to broodwar? Cuz if not, I'm just gonna assume he played many thousands of games as Z, and less than 1k as P, and then a 300 mmr difference is exactly what you'd expect... | ||
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XenOsky
Chile2277 Posts
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XenOsky
Chile2277 Posts
he does 8 - 10 hrs streams daily, not the cleaneast or fastest but very solid t user imo. he almost never offraces, he is just doing this challenge for the bread and after 300 z games and 300 p games, those are his results... everything else is speculation (is that a word?) | ||
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Soulforged
Latvia918 Posts
I'd say it still depends on the strategies chosen, but if equivalent approach to the game, that is curious indeed. From my personal experience(main P), both my Z and T are about 300 mmr lower, and at the same level relative to each other. With same playstyle, but context of "I hardly ever play offrace, and also watch much less pro games without a P" So kinda weird seeing that much of a difference here  Playstyles are probably a factor.Actually usually see the reverse, with T/P players being better with P/T than with Z respectively, because of the entire larva economy differences. | ||
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XenOsky
Chile2277 Posts
more t players should try and prove me right :d arto mb¿ | ||
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Soulforged
Latvia918 Posts
Interesting nonetheless, thanks for sharing! | ||
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Piste
6179 Posts
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TMNT
2829 Posts
From my personal experience(main P), both my Z and T are about 300 mmr lower, and at the same level relative to each other. With same playstyle, but context of "I hardly ever play offrace, and also watch much less pro games without a P" So kinda weird seeing that much of a difference here Playstyles are probably a factor. The guy is low A Terran so his mechanics is likely "completed", which means his mechanics is good enough to transition to Zerg without any problems (and good enough for P without saying). On the other hand if you're a main P player, unless you're A/S rank, you're more likely to suffer from mechanics deficiency when playing as T and especially Z. "P easiest race" is sometimes a misconception. It's only easiest in the sense that if you start playing the game for the first time, it's easiest for you to learn/gain mmr. But when you have mastered the mechanics side of BW and have a decent understanding of the strategic side, and you go back to learn another race, it's a different story. | ||
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PurE)Rabbit-SF
United States654 Posts
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6634 Posts
On December 26 2024 00:09 XenOsky wrote: same player, piloting both races, z is 300 mmr higher, even tho protoss is supposed to be similar to terran :p Your facts are funny as fck. HEY PROTOSS IS HARDER THAN ZERG. Strudel highest matchup WR is pvz. ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/FPNux0z.png) | ||
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PurE)Rabbit-SF
United States654 Posts
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Fleetfeet
Canada2573 Posts
On December 27 2024 08:55 PurE)Rabbit-SF wrote: I feel like I am already very dumb, cause I give stupid reddit retard take on this forum, but somehow I feel like I can't even understand how dumb this take is :S, am i the only one to feel this way? :D I feel like most people will read this screenshot with a sample size of 1 person and mspaint "FACTS" written, and assume op is trolling lmao Not exactly robust data analysis done here. | ||
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ggsimida
1148 Posts
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Giovanni8
57 Posts
On December 27 2024 08:02 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: Your facts are funny as fck. HEY PROTOSS IS HARDER THAN ZERG. Strudel highest matchup WR is pvz. No wonder ... In this mu he plays at a much lower level (on average much weaker opponents). But Hey we don't blame you ... Z king of course Is sponsor of "omg ZvP Is hard" ... when every morally honest Z player know its not. | ||
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LUCKY_NOOB
Bulgaria1460 Posts
![[image loading]](https://i.ibb.co/BndLw3L/waw.jpg) 786 mmr difference (according to the calculator) ^_______.________^ | ||
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XenOsky
Chile2277 Posts
On December 27 2024 18:56 Giovanni8 wrote: No wonder ... In this mu he plays at a much lower level (on average much weaker opponents). But Hey we don't blame you ... Z king of course Is sponsor of "omg ZvP Is hard" ... when every morally honest Z player know its not. smart man | ||
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XenOsky
Chile2277 Posts
On December 26 2024 23:06 TMNT wrote: Checked again his IDs today and now his P is almost 1900, so maybe not that big of a difference. The guy is low A Terran so his mechanics is likely "completed", which means his mechanics is good enough to transition to Zerg without any problems (and good enough for P without saying). On the other hand if you're a main P player, unless you're A/S rank, you're more likely to suffer from mechanics deficiency when playing as T and especially Z. "P easiest race" is sometimes a misconception. It's only easiest in the sense that if you start playing the game for the first time, it's easiest for you to learn/gain mmr. But when you have mastered the mechanics side of BW and have a decent understanding of the strategic side, and you go back to learn another race, it's a different story. smart man x2 | ||
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XenOsky
Chile2277 Posts
double post | ||
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Mutaller
United States1051 Posts
On December 27 2024 22:48 LUCKY_NOOB wrote: 786 mmr difference (according to the calculator) ^_______.________^ Good find LUCKY_NOOB! I am certain he never left games right away. Protoss is so hard, he can be A with one race and then E with toss. Protoss is just so difficult, dragoons are stupid af. Storm can miss unlike tanks, and although lurkers can miss z doesn't need to do anything. Reavers require 400 apm, that only pros can do. Zealots are the most micro intensive unit in the game, if you just a-click them they will get kited | ||
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ThunderJunk
United States694 Posts
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G5
United States2906 Posts
To win tournaments at any competitive level is very hard for Zerg (or any race) and to get like top 100 on the ladder is crazy hard but with so many Protoss players on ladder and with how short Zerg games can be, it's clearly the easiest race to climb ladders with in general. | ||
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RJBTVYOUTUBE
Netherlands948 Posts
For his toss account he had to leave 8 games very close to one another, 6 of which in a row, because his opponent was a hacker. He also did get about the 31 free wins, but having to leave 7 times more than on his zerg account already accounts for the difference in points. debunked? (recounted toss free wins) | ||
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PurE)Rabbit-SF
United States654 Posts
On December 28 2024 14:15 G5 wrote: I've always thought Zerg was the easiest race to climb the ladder with. That doesn't mean it's the easiest race overall or anything though. It just simply is the easiest race to climb ladders with. To win tournaments at any competitive level is very hard for Zerg (or any race) and to get like top 100 on the ladder is crazy hard but with so many Protoss players on ladder and with how short Zerg games can be, it's clearly the easiest race to climb ladders with in general. I think I'll just watch the legend fight the trolls here :S haha | ||
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iopq
United States949 Posts
My Terran doesn't stand a chance I switch to Protoss and only drop the 12 nex vs. 9 pool game https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BH4GC3R8EVI&t=7100 so without playing the race I'm about as good at Protoss against Zerg as I am with Zerg | ||
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Miragee
8547 Posts
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RJBTVYOUTUBE
Netherlands948 Posts
On March 26 2025 19:00 iopq wrote: I don't know about this, I just played vs. a high C/low B Zerg with Terran and with Protoss My Terran doesn't stand a chance https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGwJCthWP1k&t=10580 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BH4GC3R8EVI I switch to Protoss and only drop the 12 nex vs. 9 pool game https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BH4GC3R8EVI&t=7100 so without playing the race I'm about as good at Protoss against Zerg as I am with Zerg I feel like these types of discussions neglect the concept of "having affinity with a specific race" For example I suck at protoss. Naturally my protoss results are going to suck. Zerg I find super easy to play because it just fits my skill set really well, and terran I got through grinding it the hard way. Zerg just has super low effort macro cycles and units movement, which I am fast at and precise with. But I am a super slow base organizer/manager and zerg requires the least base management. Terran by far the most and Toss in the middle. | ||
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iFU.pauline
France1614 Posts
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HerbMon
United States464 Posts
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KameZerg
Sweden1767 Posts
Protoss: Intermediate macro and easiest micro Terran: Hardest macro and intermediate micro | ||
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iopq
United States949 Posts
On March 26 2025 23:28 KameZerg wrote: Zerg: Easiest macro and hardest micro Protoss: Intermediate macro and easiest micro Terran: Hardest macro and intermediate micro Zerg macro is actually the hardest in the beginning it took me like half an hour to get a pro level factory timing with Terran (1:28 on 12 gas) after Artosis released his video it took me weeks to get Zerg builds down Why? Because if you don't split perfectly, you delay your second drone. If you fuck up Terran or Protoss, you get 8 minerals later by a second. With Zerg, you get EVERY DRONE later which makes your hatchery delayed which makes everything even slower in a cascading effect. This is why every Zerg pro boosts, because getting more minerals faster speeds you up even more later. As far as Protoss goes, BeSt doesn't even split to the fastest Protoss patches and his builds are completely fine. | ||
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CicadaSC
United States1770 Posts
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jodljodl
174 Posts
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mtcn77
Turkey428 Posts
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