Hey everyone - since i am without a decent terran mentor and am very unimpressed by my tvt i've decided to turn here for help. A few questions I have regarding TvT-

- When do you scout? Earlier/Later?

- When are certain strats viable (ex. no vults vs wall? when to use gols? when to fast exp)

- How to effectively use and branch off from the basic strats

thx in advance to anyone who replies - and please no flames in this topic either to me or anyone who attempts to help me <3

PPV_Jimmy

United States641 Posts

August 01 2003 18:16 GMT

scout always--> early and late, know what your opponent is doing, then you can know what strategy to use to counter it. If your opponent seems to be walled up in there main, and content to stay in there, you can bet they are massing some troops...and so on...

Pseudo_Utopia

Canada827 Posts

August 01 2003 18:18 GMT

When I play tvt i usually go 2 fact double shop no-wall vultures. This ensures that he cannot attack my main unless he gets drop or vults himself.
I think tvt is simply about firstly preventing the other player from attacking you early. You can do this:
By mining the way from his base to yours then going gols, this stops drops too and when you add 2-3 tanks you can expo.
You can also prevent him from attacking you by fast siegeing his or your choke, this way he needs drop to get to you so you can go turret+tank+expo.
Another thing you can do is to go 2 port wraiths. This will prevent drops but you have to get at least 1 sieged tank quickly or else he can just siege up and kill your wall if he has 1-2 gols. You may choose to go for cloaked wraiths too, this is a good strat if the other guy doesn't have turrets up quickly.

To summarize, we can say that
1.Your first goal must be to prevent him from attacking you early, thus earning yourself an expo.
2. Vults are a good opening unless you see fast drop.
3. Tank/Gol--> expo can be good if you secure your choke with tanks asap.
4. You can choose to wall and tech to drop if you want, this will not necessarily earn you an expo (e.g. vs 2 port wraith) but if you can hurt the opponents econ enough it can compensate.

I know I haven't covered any late game stuff, basically because Im so tired, but late game is important to drop alot and def your cliffs/min lines while getting many expo.
Hope that helped, plz don't complain to me again Marshall

HovZ

United States1917 Posts

August 01 2003 18:33 GMT

umm i scout intially when scv finished first depot, the other 2 questions are impossible to answer, it always varies

BlackJack

United States10574 Posts

August 01 2003 19:40 GMT

I like to vult rush, lay mines, and set up tanks to keep him from leaving his base. Than I continue to turret along a giant line in order to keep drop ships from leaving. So if he is at 12 for example. I turret 3's main, 9's ledge, and I turret outside of his base and I put lots of tanks to keep him contained. I would say a good 20 tanks along the outsides of his base and a few tanks at 3 main and 9 ledge. Watch out for those D ships with D matrix though. They can be tricky.

RickJSanchez

United States1585 Posts

August 01 2003 20:15 GMT

Blackjack, not everyone can see the whole map when they play, so dont bother giving useless info.

my opinion, msg Hovz and listen to him. he can show up for events and win them.

Sw1tCh

United States2005 Posts

August 01 2003 20:32 GMT

Castle, do a search on this subject. I recall it being brought up before. In a considerably larger thread i might add. Have fun

baal

10541 Posts

August 01 2003 21:50 GMT

explore fast, i explored late until i got bunkered with marines, i learned my lesson and now i explore fast ^_^

IMO the most secure tech is 2 fact gols and starport, that way you can stop tanks with good micro, and vults with a good amounts of gols and RAPE 2 starport tech, there are several styles of playing, the most known are 2 types, the one who drops and harasses expos and mains to destroy his economy or trying to shut him in his base with the well known siege tanks and across the map the turret wall, or you just can make the gay BCs tech.

Sadist

United States7291 Posts

August 01 2003 21:52 GMT

hm since when does 2 fact gol drop rape 2 port? =\

ExCeLYou

Canada43 Posts

August 01 2003 22:21 GMT

#10

It all depends on position and sometimes the map your on

Hades

Canada927 Posts

August 01 2003 22:40 GMT

#11

If he is going Siege make sure you get stim really quick otherwise your marines will die before getting close enough to kill the tanks.

Against vultures you should get firebats. Firebats do a pretty good job of taking out mines with their splash damage.

Against BC tech you should probably expand 3x, protecting each base with 23 turrets and a tank, and go mass 3/3 marines, don't worry about medics too much because if the terran is really good he will micro his BCs to make medics useless.

HovZ

United States1917 Posts

August 02 2003 00:04 GMT

#12

On August 02 2003 07:40 Hades wrote:
If he is going Siege make sure you get stim really quick otherwise your marines will die before getting close enough to kill the tanks.

Against vultures you should get firebats. Firebats do a pretty good job of taking out mines with their splash damage.

Against BC tech you should probably expand 3x, protecting each base with 23 turrets and a tank, and go mass 3/3 marines, don't worry about medics too much because if the terran is really good he will micro his BCs to make medics useless.

ahahahaha, im hoping im right and this is a joke

Chuiu

3470 Posts

August 02 2003 00:14 GMT

#13

Me too, or I will find it hard to believe someone is that dumb.

Shockey

United States2615 Posts

August 02 2003 00:38 GMT

#14

.... TvT is the most straightforward matchup. It makes ZvZ look like a labyrinth with endless possiblities.

hasuwar

7365 Posts

August 02 2003 00:47 GMT

#15

http://www.wgtour.com/dossier.php?idD=1588&datab=broodwar

TvT

DV8

United States1623 Posts

August 02 2003 00:47 GMT

#16

On August 02 2003 09:38 Shockey wrote:
.... TvT is the most straightforward matchup. It makes ZvZ look like a labyrinth with endless possiblities.

Shows how much you know about TvT.

baal

10541 Posts

August 02 2003 02:33 GMT

#17

lol im hoping the marines suggestion is a joke too LOL...

and ya 2 fact gol and starpot ownz wraiths...

and even better, if you are pretty sure your enemy is going 2 star make 3 fact gols, one guy did it to me once and he just trampled over me like i wasnt even there

Zaks

Bulgaria73 Posts

August 02 2003 03:16 GMT

#18

I remember that funny game (Xellos or Nada was terr) vs other terr guy - and our korean hero ^^ make fast wrightes then at 9-11min switched to barrack units m&ms + ghosts ... Rather efective - I remember - locking down the opposite terr army - tanks and gols (with insane micro) and finishing it with those upgraded m&m ... was really fun ^^

-Zaks

uLti-ScT-

Germany104 Posts

August 02 2003 03:44 GMT

#19

wasnt this the rape replay from bw.co.yu where nada lockdowned all of the tanks of some newbie enemy?

Nevera

Finland677 Posts

August 02 2003 03:50 GMT

#20

Wtf are you guys talking about? "I hope it's a joke". Now I hope THAT is a joke. Doesn't take a fucking genius to know if he was kidding or not.

Forget vults. When you think your tvt is solid see if you like them or not.
Remember to build a lot of turrets all over the place, this is where you can use your extra mins you allways get. Early game turrets is just about coverage, later maybe not.
2 port wraith is very nice, and risky. If the opponent does it, prepare for hard time with expanding. Don't make too many gols when he goes wraith. If you want your natu, try to turret it fast if he has wraiths.
Wall in is not required, but it is still useful.
TvT is about where the units are, and that's why drops own. There are allways holes in defence, empty places, find them and put your guys there.