EPTBGH auto balance -> http://bghmmr.com/ - Page 14
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Kazim1
27 Posts
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D3AD-R3TARD
Poland288 Posts
On November 17 2020 06:19 Kazim1 wrote: Ban ebla please. He is joining games and leaving at countdown constantly. Banned. BTW. I've started experimenting with leagues as you guys voted for this. I first started with C+ lobby meaning only SABC players. Those matches usually didn't start cause most players who joined got banned (rank too low). After couple of bans no one else joins lobby. So I tested D+ (SABCD) and it was better but still mostly empty lobby. I also tried Ranked games - only people who already played 4 games and this seems to work. For now those games happen only sometimes as I don't want bots to sit in empty lobby most of the time. Current schedule is as follows.
All other games are standard (+20 custom wins). I might add more games only for certain players if people start joining them. | ||
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t1mz_
Russian Federation16 Posts
On November 18 2020 23:18 D3AD-R3TARD wrote: +20 custom wins What does it mean exactly? Person will be banned if he doesn't have 20 wins on his account? | ||
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D3AD-R3TARD
Poland288 Posts
On November 19 2020 22:14 t1mz_ wrote: What does it mean exactly? Person will be banned if he doesn't have 20 wins on his account? Yes, in order to play balanced games (if you never player them before) you must have at least 20 wins in custom games. That requirement is in place for weeks now. | ||
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att
128 Posts
On November 19 2020 22:55 D3AD-R3TARD wrote: Yes, in order to play balanced games (if you never player them before) you must have at least 20 wins in custom games. That requirement is in place for weeks now. Im like 12 wins 40 losses. so is impossible for me to win this many games, i cant win 20 games. So can u lower it to at least 40 games, instead of 20 wins, so that guys who are not super good also have a chance at getting to ur games? thanks. | ||
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t1mz_
Russian Federation16 Posts
On November 19 2020 22:55 D3AD-R3TARD wrote: Yes, in order to play balanced games (if you never player them before) you must have at least 20 wins in custom games. That requirement is in place for weeks now. I didn't see any mention of this ITT, just checked with search (looking for number 20) and didn't find it either. On November 19 2020 23:08 att wrote: Im like 12 wins 40 losses. so is impossible for me to win this many games, i cant win 20 games. So can u lower it to at least 40 games, instead of 20 wins, so that guys who are not super good also have a chance at getting to ur games? thanks. I guess you can raise your stats playing a melee game with computer opponents (or maybe you can do some fake games with your friends). | ||
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D3AD-R3TARD
Poland288 Posts
On November 20 2020 00:02 t1mz_ wrote: I didn't see any mention of this ITT, just checked with search (looking for number 20) and didn't find it either. I guess you can raise your stats playing a melee game with computer opponents (or maybe you can do some fake games with your friends). Yeah, I agree it wasn't stated explicitly although it's in the name of games (+20 wins) and every player who gets banned is informed why. The main reason for this is that there are some toxic players who kill teammates or constantly create new accounts to play as a low ranking player. This requirement makes people stick to one nick and prevents toxic behavior. On November 19 2020 23:08 att wrote: Im like 12 wins 40 losses. so is impossible for me to win this many games, i cant win 20 games. So can u lower it to at least 40 games, instead of 20 wins, so that guys who are not super good also have a chance at getting to ur games? thanks. Initially requirement was for only 20 games played, just to prevent clean accounts. But I saw players who were good joining with no wins. They were using this as a loophole to smurf. You are very welcome o play bghmmr games, however if you played just 50 games, maybe it's better to play a little more before joining bghmmr games. Most players who play bghmmr already know how to play bgh ( even the low ranking ones). If you already know the game, getting 20 wins in other bgh/hunters matches hosted on battle.net shouldn't be a problem. | ||
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Jealous
10095 Posts
On November 20 2020 00:39 D3AD-R3TARD wrote: Yeah, I agree it wasn't stated explicitly although it's in the name of games (+20 wins) and every player who gets banned is informed why. The main reason for this is that there are some toxic players who kill teammates or constantly create new accounts to play as a low ranking player. This requirement makes people stick to one nick and prevents toxic behavior. Initially requirement was for only 20 games played, just to prevent clean accounts. But I saw players who were good joining with no wins. They were using this as a loophole to smurf. You are very welcome o play bghmmr games, however if you played just 50 games, maybe it's better to play a little more before joining bghmmr games. Most players who play bghmmr already know how to play bgh ( even the low ranking ones). If you already know the game, getting 20 wins in other bgh/hunters matches hosted on battle.net shouldn't be a problem. This is the right call IMO. If att already has 12-40, maybe playing until 20-70 will help them improve their game enough to not tie down any stronger players in their team  | ||
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Sheraph
7 Posts
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Jealous
10095 Posts
On November 22 2020 06:17 Sheraph wrote: "Angel." should be banned. He is a rank S player who leave during the game if he has a noob in his team, but if not, he likes to do cheese rushs and things like that just to humiliate noobs players. While it's quite possible that this is done intentionally and can be frowned upon, it'd be a terrible precedent to set that players have to play out their whole game or get banned (what if he is a teenager and his mom is constantly telling him to get off the computer?), or that doing cheese rushes that humiliate other players should lead to a ban (lmao just ridiculous). At the end of the day, players can choose to leave any game for any reason and suffer the penalty of points, and they most certainly are allowed to utilize any strategy they choose. Seems to me that maybe you are one of those people that got humiliated/left behind and now are just seeking revenge without a real logical foundation. | ||
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Sheraph
7 Posts
On November 22 2020 06:30 Jealous wrote: Seems to me that maybe you are one of those people that got humiliated/left behind and now are just seeking revenge without a real logical foundation. Is not that. I have rank B and a canon rush behind mineral won't work with me.... Unfortunatelly nowadays SC:BW is not very popular and almost all players are bad/noobs, but there are some "old school" players who are really pros and that makes the game very extreme. I would love to play only with rank A/B which is I believe my level, but its impossible, only noobs with C/D/E/F join the game nowadays which makes the game a lottery not based on your skill. And then there are some players like Angel. with rank S, who are really good, but only want to burst the games doing cheese rush to noobs players and in case he sees the rush is not possible because someone spotted him before, or because one of their team doesnt scout, he just leave. Same thing over and over. If the sample of players were larger it would not matter, but with only ~300 players online many people is leaving the lobby as soon as he join because its a waste of time... Maybe its possible to "penalize" the first player who leaves the game the first 2 min, and after... 10 "first leave" you get banned? or something like that, idk. | ||
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Jealous
10095 Posts
On November 22 2020 07:22 Sheraph wrote: Is not that. I have rank B and a canon rush behind mineral won't work with me.... Unfortunatelly nowadays SC:BW is not very popular and almost all players are bad/noobs, but there are some "old school" players who are really pros and that makes the game very extreme. I would love to play only with rank A/B which is I believe my level, but its impossible, only noobs with C/D/E/F join the game nowadays which makes the game a lottery not based on your skill. And then there are some players like Angel. with rank S, who are really good, but only want to burst the games doing cheese rush to noobs players and in case he sees the rush is not possible because someone spotted him before, or because one of their team doesnt scout, he just leave. Same thing over and over. If the sample of players were larger it would not matter, but with only ~300 players online many people is leaving the lobby as soon as he join because its a waste of time... Maybe its possible to "penalize" the first player who leaves the game the first 2 min, and after... 10 "first leave" you get banned? or something like that, idk. Again, does that mean that a father to a new baby who has to answer his baby crying shouldn't play StarCraft 3v3 BGH? Baby cries 9 times, you better think real hard if you want to help the baby on the 10th time lest you be banned? And, doesn't banning just make smurfing more likely? You'll get the same Angel. but starting at like C rank so it will be even less fair. Also, I don't really see your point concerning the skill of players joining - aren't these the same people that used to join regular BGH games, before there was team balancing? Weren't hosts always stacking the home team with their friends and using even more arbitrary metrics like casual melee game win%? If you want to only play with people your level, make friends and play private games... Playing pubs is always pubs, and there is always going to be more mediocre players than good ones by definition; all this system does is make it more likely for the resulting teams to be more balanced rather than 3 B friends on Team 1 and 3 scrubs on Team 2. | ||
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Sheraph
7 Posts
On November 22 2020 10:47 Jealous wrote: Again, does that mean that a father to a new baby who has to answer his baby crying shouldn't play StarCraft 3v3 BGH? Baby cries 9 times, you better think real hard if you want to help the baby on the 10th time lest you be banned? And, doesn't banning just make smurfing more likely? You'll get the same Angel. but starting at like C rank so it will be even less fair. Also, I don't really see your point concerning the skill of players joining - aren't these the same people that used to join regular BGH games, before there was team balancing? Weren't hosts always stacking the home team with their friends and using even more arbitrary metrics like casual melee game win%? If you want to only play with people your level, make friends and play private games... Playing pubs is always pubs, and there is always going to be more mediocre players than good ones by definition; all this system does is make it more likely for the resulting teams to be more balanced rather than 3 B friends on Team 1 and 3 scrubs on Team 2. That's why I would love a bot with a less wide of ranges allowed in the same match. For example one bot for only S/A/B, another for B/C/D, and another for D/E/F, that would be more fair. As you say, joining a public party is always the same, 2-3 dudes playing together using discord, vs 3 random guys (usually noobs) with 0 chances of a balanced game. SCBW is a 20 year old game and there are no many players nowadays. I only have 1-2 friends who play somethimes so if I want to still play the game I'm forced to join public games, or more recently play with this bot, which as you says is more "balanced", but is far from a perfect system imho. But since there are some rules here like "attacking teammate = ban, or insulting = ban" I thought it will be a great idea to ban early leavers who only want to ruin the game using cheese tactics. If you defence the point that doing that (leaving, cheese tactics, etc) is possible in SC and so we have to deal with it, why teamkill or insult is banned from this? its also possible in SC, you can unally when you want, and you can say watherever you want at chat, so its a little contradictory don't you think? | ||
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D3AD-R3TARD
Poland288 Posts
On November 22 2020 06:17 Sheraph wrote: "Angel." should be banned. He is a rank S player who leave during the game if he has a noob in his team, but if not, he likes to do cheese rushs and things like that just to humiliate noobs players. I've seen Angel leaving games often and it is kinda annoying, but he is not doing anything illegal. Rushes are ok but you have to remember that games where someone leaves before 3 minutes mark are not counted so it kinda goes both ways. It's relatively easy to win a game with rush but it is also likely that this game will not count. One thing I don't like is leaving the game just after start which is something that Angel does. This is allowed but it can be used to only play games with good positions/race distributions and should be discouraged. Also, it is a waste of bot time. But I don't have anything in mind how to penalize this just yet. On November 22 2020 07:22 Sheraph wrote: Is not that. I have rank B and a canon rush behind mineral won't work with me.... Unfortunatelly nowadays SC:BW is not very popular and almost all players are bad/noobs, but there are some "old school" players who are really pros and that makes the game very extreme. I would love to play only with rank A/B which is I believe my level, but its impossible, only noobs with C/D/E/F join the game nowadays which makes the game a lottery not based on your skill. And then there are some players like Angel. with rank S, who are really good, but only want to burst the games doing cheese rush to noobs players and in case he sees the rush is not possible because someone spotted him before, or because one of their team doesnt scout, he just leave. Same thing over and over. If the sample of players were larger it would not matter, but with only ~300 players online many people is leaving the lobby as soon as he join because its a waste of time... Maybe its possible to "penalize" the first player who leaves the game the first 2 min, and after... 10 "first leave" you get banned? or something like that, idk. As for SAB only games: I've tried this and it didn't work. C+ games didn't work, not even D+ games. Those games end up as empty lobby. There is just not enough players at this level and when the host starts banning lower ranking players it leads to no one else joining. Also people don't want to wait 5 minutes for a game. I've seen SABC players leaving C+/D+ lobby and joining lobby for everyone just to play the game faster. As for penalizing "first leaves" it might be a good idea but I wouldn't go as far as ban but maybe subtract MMR points. | ||
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badbeatpete
25 Posts
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Sheraph
7 Posts
On November 22 2020 19:35 D3AD-R3TARD wrote: I've seen Angel leaving games often and it is kinda annoying, but he is not doing anything illegal. Rushes are ok but you have to remember that games where someone leaves before 3 minutes mark are not counted so it kinda goes both ways. It's relatively easy to win a game with rush but it is also likely that this game will not count. One thing I don't like is leaving the game just after start which is something that Angel does. This is allowed but it can be used to only play games with good positions/race distributions and should be discouraged. Also, it is a waste of bot time. But I don't have anything in mind how to penalize this just yet. That's excatly the point. Is like "I only play games using zerg to do a 4pool rush if I start at 11 position and there is an enemy at 12, if not, I leave" Is very annoying because if the game don't start as the "sir Angel." wants, he just leave. Maybe it don't count on MMR points but its a waste of time for everyone. On November 22 2020 19:35 D3AD-R3TARD wrote: As for SAB only games: I've tried this and it didn't work. C+ games didn't work, not even D+ games. Those games end up as empty lobby. There is just not enough players at this level and when the host starts banning lower ranking players it leads to no one else joining. Also people don't want to wait 5 minutes for a game. I've seen SABC players leaving C+/D+ lobby and joining lobby for everyone just to play the game faster. As for penalizing "first leaves" it might be a good idea but I wouldn't go as far as ban but maybe subtract MMR points. It's a pity that there are not enough players online to fill "rank games", and in the end the only solution is to mix, I know that, but as said that makes the teams very "extreme". An F player can be more or less useful but somethimes are completly useless. An example: the other day one guy with rank F and "1" MMR points just saved 400minerals when he had 9 probes to make a nexus at my base to stole my minerals so I can protect him during the game... it doesnt matter if the game is B (me) + C + F vs C+C+C, with an ally like this its game over from the beggining since is not making units and is draining my minerals. The bot would be awesome with a wider sample of players but when there are so few, somethimes is just impossible to balance and its frustrating. Same thing happens with a S rank, somethimes is hard to balance and evenmore if the S rank is playing only the games that are most favorable. | ||
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Qvark
Sweden185 Posts
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D3AD-R3TARD
Poland288 Posts
On November 22 2020 21:14 badbeatpete wrote: Why is the cut off 3 minutes instead of 2? As you mentioned, it is exploitable by cheesers as well as players getting cheesed to leave before the 3 minute cut off. That's the point. Those strategies are usually not representative of real game. That's just a problem with BGH - especially 11 and 12 positions. They are too close. If someone leaves before 3 minute mark (doesn't matter rusher or someone killed by rush) it's an indication of an all-in play like this. Not a good measure of players' skill. Especially those not involved in the rush. On November 23 2020 21:09 Sheraph wrote: That's excatly the point. Is like "I only play games using zerg to do a 4pool rush if I start at 11 position and there is an enemy at 12, if not, I leave" Is very annoying because if the game don't start as the "sir Angel." wants, he just leave. Maybe it don't count on MMR points but its a waste of time for everyone. It's a pity that there are not enough players online to fill "rank games", and in the end the only solution is to mix, I know that, but as said that makes the teams very "extreme". An F player can be more or less useful but somethimes are completly useless. An example: the other day one guy with rank F and "1" MMR points just saved 400minerals when he had 9 probes to make a nexus at my base to stole my minerals so I can protect him during the game... it doesnt matter if the game is B (me) + C + F vs C+C+C, with an ally like this its game over from the beggining since is not making units and is draining my minerals. The bot would be awesome with a wider sample of players but when there are so few, somethimes is just impossible to balance and its frustrating. Same thing happens with a S rank, somethimes is hard to balance and evenmore if the S rank is playing only the games that are most favorable. I know that matching players of completely different skill is less than perfect. One solution is to open lobby for 8 players and then ban 2 least matching rest with skill. But that would mean constantly banning S ranks and F. So nor pros nor noobs would be able to play... I can't switch players between 2 lobbies. That would solve many problems but I can only use options available for normal battle.net players. On November 25 2020 20:11 Qvark wrote: Hey. I've recently started playing BW after a 15 year break. Thanks a lot for the bot; it's all I play pretty much. Thanks, glad to hear that! | ||
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badbeatpete
25 Posts
On November 26 2020 03:31 D3AD-R3TARD wrote: That's the point. Those strategies are usually not representative of real game. That's just a problem with BGH - especially 11 and 12 positions. They are too close. If someone leaves before 3 minute mark (doesn't matter rusher or someone killed by rush) it's an indication of an all-in play like this. Not a good measure of players' skill. Especially those not involved in the rush. I had no idea this was intentional. I don't think I agree though. There is skill involved in both executing and defending a cheese strategy. Allin strategies are a valid part of the game, and allowing players to mulligan these games is imposing a personal bias into them. Also, players not directly involved in the rush still have just as much impact on the result of the game. How did the remaining players respond to the cheese. Did they sit around passively or aggressively punish the cheesing player? Did the teammates of the cheeser assist the rush or not? Did the cheesing player make proper defenses against a counter or not? A game doesn't just end with whether the cheesing player was successful or not. Implicitly allowing players to mulligan cheesy games is similar in spirit to changing the official map to remove cliffs or adjust spawn positions etc. I don't think most players would agree with this. I didn't even know that the 3 minute rule was intentionally set as such to allow players to mulligan these kinds of games. | ||
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Qvark
Sweden185 Posts
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