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Ao
Korea (South)19 Posts
On May 10 2018 04:04 Empyrean wrote: Could be Zealot attacks, since they come out much faster. At +2, they kill mines in one hit. Otherwise you need two zealots to attack a mine. Someone had checked and they were only +1 I thought in that clip. Could be mistaken. | ||
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-Debaser-
United States329 Posts
On May 10 2018 04:04 Empyrean wrote: Could be Zealot attacks, since they come out much faster. At +2, they kill mines in one hit. Otherwise you need two zealots to attack a mine. Yeah i think the key to the mine killing is having the right ratio of goons and +2atk zealots. | ||
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mishimaBeef
Canada2259 Posts
also, P R O T O S S E D | ||
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LocoBolon
Argentina243 Posts
. I find funny how ppl rush to declare it is broke and it should be patched or forbiden like it's and undeniable truth, we the noobs, are already trying and coming with ideas to counter this so the only thning I can say with 100% certainty is that we will have to sit and wait to see how God approaches this before making any undeniable statement. | ||
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Gorgonoth
United States468 Posts
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kogeT
Poland2041 Posts
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CHEONSOYUN
553 Posts
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LocoBolon
Argentina243 Posts
Even with an observer in the recall, I think most of the units will tend to focus on vultures, this is because detection takes some fraction of a second to take place, (just like when wraith cloack with detection around they will still dissapear of vision for like half of a second, when some cloacked unit enter a field of detection it will also take that fraction of time for detection to take place, I think many of you have already experienced this), but vultures will already be there before mines "appear" thus goons and zeas will aim for them. side note: On stream, Flash used this principle to kill mutas scourge that were static on sparkle not so long ago. Even with multiple overlords around he will just ran with mass uncloacked wraith directly to the mutas scourge, then he will cloak the wraiths just after mutas and scourges targets them but before they shot/hit, with all the overlords right there, the result is mutas and scourge just freeze while beeing killed, they take "so long" to finally re-spot re-target and start attacking back the wraiths | ||
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Freakling
Germany1529 Posts
Why is every one do surprised by this? This is hardly a new discovery. How stacking works and can be forced: Known since forever. How recalls work: Hardly a secret. And it is definitely not an SC:R idiosyncrasy – it's the same engine and I know you can do all kinds of weird stacking in 1.16.1. Maybe my map making mind is way out of touch with how players think about the game again, but this seems just trivial to me. I have done it. Most notably, it is my goto solution for vortex bugs (turning a debilitating bug into an asset). And I only play Protoss for he lulz sometimes. So if it turns out there is really no good reason for players not having constantly been doping it before, that's when I will be surprised. I just always assumed it was deemed to unreliable, APM-inefficient or risky for players to do. After all, normal recalls can do enough horrific damage as it is, but can also fail spectacularly, losing all those units. Maybe these are [i]my[/] naive (Zerg player/map maker/mechanics savant) assumptions, but I'd say: If this is new, don't get overly excited about it, because that it would really break the game without any one having introduced it into the meta years ago seems just absolutely improbable to me. (Or maybe this is the ultimate confirmation that Protoss is statistically the weakest race because Protoss players just don't have what it takes  ) | ||
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Freakling
Germany1529 Posts
How do u patch this? Maybe will be forbidden for tournaments. Forbidding stuff is a bad solution, it's just a band-aid. However, there's already a limitation on how many (regularly stacked) air units can be recalled at once. This would just have to be implemented for ground units as well, or rather the limit would have to be lowered, because I am pretty sure there is one for ground units as well (or one could recall 200 stacked Probes easily) | ||
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iFU.pauline
France1655 Posts
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ortseam
996 Posts
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LocoBolon
Argentina243 Posts
 Little attitude adjustments and style changes can be made to discourage or punish players for trying this. This move requires time, apm tand a lot of units that not doing anything else, thus Arbiter getting EMP'ed will be proportionally a bigger deal. Game sense, compulsive scouting and Vessel control could grow in importance in Terran's head. High apm, time and unit cost is also the reason why this is more viable in "quiet" games when Terr turtles and slowly pushes as Koget said, so a less Flash buildy approach and a more Terrorist or aggresive approach will definitely make it a lot harder for protoss to pull it off. Still this seems to be a huge deal and someone could say aggresive tvp is less effective than turtle approach, and that's why it's game changing, letting protoss get 4 bases 17 gates, 2/3 starport seems more frightening than ever before with this in hand. I'm kind of hyped I must admit, I just love to see meta game change before my eyes, can't get enough of it tbh and its definitelly coming, soon we will start to see some changes in gameplay to try soften the impact of this Total Recall. K.H.J. can you please send electronic mail to God with my ideas ? LOOLBW Fightiing! | ||
FlaShFTW
United States10231 Posts
On May 10 2018 05:03 Freakling wrote: Hey, guys, you got me seriously perplexed? Why is every one do surprised by this? This is hardly a new discovery. How stacking works and can be forced: Known since forever. How recalls work: Hardly a secret. And it is definitely not an SC:R idiosyncrasy – it's the same engine and I know you can do all kinds of weird stacking in 1.16.1. Maybe my map making mind is way out of touch with how players think about the game again, but this seems just trivial to me. I have done it. Most notably, it is my goto solution for vortex bugs (turning a debilitating bug into an asset). And I only play Protoss for he lulz sometimes. So if it turns out there is really no good reason for players not having constantly been doping it before, that's when I will be surprised. I just always assumed it was deemed to unreliable, APM-inefficient or risky for players to do. After all, normal recalls can do enough horrific damage as it is, but can also fail spectacularly, losing all those units. Maybe these are [i]my[/] naive (Zerg player/map maker/mechanics savant) assumptions, but I'd say: If this is new, don't get overly excited about it, because that it would really break the game without any one having introduced it into the meta years ago seems just absolutely improbable to me. (Or maybe this is the ultimate confirmation that Protoss is statistically the weakest race because Protoss players just don't have what it takes )Woah guys watch out we have a 200 iq badass over here. | ||
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Alpha-NP-
United States1242 Posts
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TelecoM
United States10682 Posts
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TelecoM
United States10682 Posts
On May 10 2018 05:47 Alpha-NP- wrote: How do you actually do this trick in game and do you have to be pro to do it? Morph HT in middle of group, then spam click patrol. | ||
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Chef
10810 Posts
On May 10 2018 05:03 Freakling wrote: Hey, guys, you got me seriously perplexed? Why is every one do surprised by this? This is hardly a new discovery. How stacking works and can be forced: Known since forever. How recalls work: Hardly a secret. And it is definitely not an SC:R idiosyncrasy – it's the same engine and I know you can do all kinds of weird stacking in 1.16.1. Maybe my map making mind is way out of touch with how players think about the game again, but this seems just trivial to me. I have done it. Most notably, it is my goto solution for vortex bugs (turning a debilitating bug into an asset). And I only play Protoss for he lulz sometimes. So if it turns out there is really no good reason for players not having constantly been doping it before, that's when I will be surprised. I just always assumed it was deemed to unreliable, APM-inefficient or risky for players to do. After all, normal recalls can do enough horrific damage as it is, but can also fail spectacularly, losing all those units. Maybe these are [i]my[/] naive (Zerg player/map maker/mechanics savant) assumptions, but I'd say: If this is new, don't get overly excited about it, because that it would really break the game without any one having introduced it into the meta years ago seems just absolutely improbable to me. (Or maybe this is the ultimate confirmation that Protoss is statistically the weakest race because Protoss players just don't have what it takes )Please show the replay where you used this technique in a real game before, esp. 1.16 and earlier days. Obviously you did not put these two well known ideas together either. Also, outside of ramps glitching at inconvenient times where it is 100% better to just kill the unit before more get stuck, no, I don't think many people knew you could arbitrarily do this in the middle of and open field. We've seen a few units get stuck in this special collision mode in mineral lines, usually seen as a negative thing for the player's units getting glitched (ie almost always in the context of defence for the player who owns the peons), and very rarely we've seen this happen with archons before in the middle of a field, but no one has had the thought to spam click and actually purposely get your units stuck on each other. tldr: if you had thought of this you'd have 100% done it and made a thread you damn nerd. | ||
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kogeT
Poland2041 Posts
On May 10 2018 05:47 Alpha-NP- wrote: How do you actually do this trick in game and do you have to be pro to do it? I just tried on single players, its super easy with a probe. Units on patrol just form a boll very fast and dont really unstuck that easily. | ||
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A.Alm
Sweden531 Posts
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