On May 10 2018 05:03 Freakling wrote: Hey, guys, you got me seriously perplexed? Why is every one do surprised by this? This is hardly a new discovery. How stacking works and can be forced: Known since forever. How recalls work: Hardly a secret. And it is definitely not an SC:R idiosyncrasy – it's the same engine and I know you can do all kinds of weird stacking in 1.16.1. Maybe my map making mind is way out of touch with how players think about the game again, but this seems just trivial to me. I have done it. Most notably, it is my goto solution for vortex bugs (turning a debilitating bug into an asset). And I only play Protoss for he lulz sometimes.
So if it turns out there is really no good reason for players not having constantly been doping it before, that's when I will be surprised. I just always assumed it was deemed to unreliable, APM-inefficient or risky for players to do. After all, normal recalls can do enough horrific damage as it is, but can also fail spectacularly, losing all those units. Maybe these are [i]my[/] naive (Zerg player/map maker/mechanics savant) assumptions, but I'd say: If this is new, don't get overly excited about it, because that it would really break the game without any one having introduced it into the meta years ago seems just absolutely improbable to me. (Or maybe this is the ultimate confirmation that Protoss is statistically the weakest race because Protoss players just don't have what it takes )
So the Protoss players RECALLED they could use stacking for Recall armies?
On May 10 2018 06:39 GGzerG wrote: I always was under the impression there was a maxed # of units that could be recalled, I guess this thought was always wrong?
This is true. The trick is that by stacking you get closer to the limit or hit it. A normal recall never comes close to that limit.
On May 10 2018 05:03 Freakling wrote: Hey, guys, you got me seriously perplexed? Why is every one do surprised by this? This is hardly a new discovery. How stacking works and can be forced: Known since forever. How recalls work: Hardly a secret. And it is definitely not an SC:R idiosyncrasy – it's the same engine and I know you can do all kinds of weird stacking in 1.16.1. Maybe my map making mind is way out of touch with how players think about the game again, but this seems just trivial to me. I have done it. Most notably, it is my goto solution for vortex bugs (turning a debilitating bug into an asset). And I only play Protoss for he lulz sometimes.
So if it turns out there is really no good reason for players not having constantly been doping it before, that's when I will be surprised. I just always assumed it was deemed to unreliable, APM-inefficient or risky for players to do. After all, normal recalls can do enough horrific damage as it is, but can also fail spectacularly, losing all those units. Maybe these are [i]my[/] naive (Zerg player/map maker/mechanics savant) assumptions, but I'd say: If this is new, don't get overly excited about it, because that it would really break the game without any one having introduced it into the meta years ago seems just absolutely improbable to me. (Or maybe this is the ultimate confirmation that Protoss is statistically the weakest race because Protoss players just don't have what it takes )
Please show the replay where you used this technique in a real game before, esp. 1.16 and earlier days. Obviously you did not put these two well known ideas together either.
Also, outside of ramps glitching at inconvenient times where it is 100% better to just kill the unit before more get stuck, no, I don't think many people knew you could arbitrarily do this in the middle of and open field. We've seen a few units get stuck in this special collision mode in mineral lines, usually seen as a negative thing for the player's units getting glitched (ie almost always in the context of defence for the player who owns the peons), and very rarely we've seen this happen with archons before in the middle of a field, but no one has had the thought to spam click and actually purposely get your units stuck on each other.
tldr: if you had thought of this you'd have 100% done it and made a thread you damn nerd.
No, why? I never systematically explored the possibilities as a Protoss player. I just used it opportunistically. And I cannot remember ever opening a TL thread that was not map or map making related.
On May 10 2018 06:39 GGzerG wrote: I always was under the impression there was a maxed # of units that could be recalled, I guess this thought was always wrong?
This is true. The trick is that by stacking you get closer to the limit or hit it. A normal recall never comes close to that limit.
That is because Arbiters take units from a 5x5 tile area and move them into a 7x7 tile area. (So that's about 25 goons to 49 goons). So effectively you can about double the unit capacity of a recall by stacking the units. I am not quite sure how it works for air units, though. It's too long since I tested those things systematically, and I cannot remember any air recall ever happening in a normal game.
EDIT: Did some quick in-game testing and it seems to be exactly the same for air units. You can only recall about 8 Carriers at a time simply because they have such humongous collision boxes…
I am not sure that putting units on patrol command before the recall has any influence on how fast they fire after the recall because recall resets unit commands anyway (puts them on stop command).
cool and im not entirely sure that it is imba in pvt and ill give my opinion on why, although someone will prob call me a noob idiot ect ect
assuming both players are max upgrades and 200/200 with unlimited resources for arguements sake recalling such a large army on to a single location scattered with mines would be a massively favorable trade for terran, even if lets say half of the units survived, terran could send a small army to help clean up the remaining troops while counter pushing while protoss has many units in gateways not on the battlefield.
in the same scenario where a protoss recalls a large army into a main or an expand but lets say the protoss does not take any damage from mines and has free reign over that particular base, terran can counter push protoss freely knowing they will have the stronger army and potentially kill expands... but its all situational
Actually come to think of it what's the difference between recalling stacked units and just doing 2 recalls? (Have 2 separate armies and recalling another arbiter with your first army).
In the games I've played Protoss seldom recalls 2 armies so you can think of this as Protoss recalling 2 armies and just focus more on defense with mines + turrets + vessels.
Only significant impact I can think of is if the Protoss rushes to recall first, in this case he can recall a much larger army instead of just the normal size for the FIRST recall. Late game think of it as just Protoss sending 2 recalls instead of 1.
EPT
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