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To be honest seeing this makes me feel a little bit weird.
Jaeyun is this kind of personality where you cannot really figure out if he is really true or still playing false.
I remember two or three years ago I was trying to make people forgive him, especially korean players.
Because of that I got the chance to talk to him personally.
And the weirdest thing comes now...... He tried to cell smartphones to me...
That was so weird...... I think no one can even imagine.
That made me think, that he probably is still just after the money.
After this experience I stopped talking to him or to other players about forgiveness......
Besides this weird sh*t, he was an awesome completly unique player.
I dont know if this is good or bad. But after this cellphone stuffs, I do not plan to watch him or contact him again D:
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...you cannot really figure out if he is really true or still playing false.
Note: I'm only quoting 'cause it's a common sentiment. not replying to anyone specific, thus I left out the handle
I don't think it matters. I believe in freedom, and punishment for the purpose of reform. To me, that's what a civilized society is, and more to the point, the one I wish to live in. So that is what I promote.
I've seen passionate arguments about what a horrible person he is/was, some from people I respect greatly and even believe without evidence. (since I have none myself, I don't know the man) So I understand animus fine. But I object to the idea that he will do xxx, thus shouldn't be allowed to stream/play/whatever. I simply do not believe a free society punishes people for stuff they might do. That there is evidence he did so in the past is not relevant, it just makes it more likely in theory.
I don't know why it's so hard to accept that people can make their own decisions about others. Banning someone from anything makes it impossible to collect the data required to make those decisions. In essence, such a ban pushes one perspective onto other people who should be free to decide themselves.
Plus, it sounds like many think (and I tend to agree with) that his stream will be a flop. Ok, great. So what's the issue with that? Let it flop. Let it succeed. Sponsors can make up their own minds too-- they don't need to adhere to some community-given moral ban.
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I hope he streams on Twitch or something, #FreesAviOr
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If he doesn't play Brood War, I don't really care. It is a massive insult to all fans and people who lost their jobs for him to play the game he had a big hand in destroying.
And based on his actions in the past I highly doubt he actually repented for his crimes. I wouldn't mind people like Fake Yellow coming back, as he admitted to his guilt and has lived an honest life for many years afterwards. Savior on the other hand acted as if he did nothing wrong ("I was only a broker"), banned anyone who said anything remotely close to the word '주작' (Korean meme for Savior's manipulation), and made money by selling BW guides while people in the business found themselves jobless. Does this look like a man who can even feel regret?
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On December 31 2017 12:21 RWLabs wrote:
If he doesn't play Brood War, I don't really care. It is a massive insult to all fans and people who lost their jobs for him to play the game he had a big hand in destroying.
And based on his actions in the past I highly doubt he actually repented for his crimes. I wouldn't mind people like Fake Yellow coming back, as he admitted to his guilt and has lived an honest life for many years afterwards. Savior on the other hand acted as if he did nothing wrong ("I was only a broker"), banned anyone who said anything remotely close to the word '주작' (Korean meme for Savior's manipulation), and made money by selling BW guides while people in the business found themselves jobless. Does this look like a man who can even feel regret?
Wait, how did he lose people their jobs?
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On December 31 2017 18:58 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 31 2017 12:21 RWLabs wrote:
If he doesn't play Brood War, I don't really care. It is a massive insult to all fans and people who lost their jobs for him to play the game he had a big hand in destroying.
And based on his actions in the past I highly doubt he actually repented for his crimes. I wouldn't mind people like Fake Yellow coming back, as he admitted to his guilt and has lived an honest life for many years afterwards. Savior on the other hand acted as if he did nothing wrong ("I was only a broker"), banned anyone who said anything remotely close to the word '주작' (Korean meme for Savior's manipulation), and made money by selling BW guides while people in the business found themselves jobless. Does this look like a man who can even feel regret? Wait, how did he lose people their jobs?
People are misrepresenting Blizzard sweeping the rug from under KeSPA with SC2 with the match fixing scandal lowering the legitimacy of competitive BW being the opening that allowed Blizzard to enter the Korean scene with SC2. The former was going to happen regardless since Blizzard always had the option to force an enormous fee to run tournaments for the game they didn't want to push (like they are doing now) but Koreans sure do love putting bologna slices over their eyes when it comes to mindless hatred.
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I'll forgive him.
But I still don't want him playing SC or making money off of the fans he betrayed. There are other things he can do to make money. He'd only hurt BW if he stayed.
Forgive everything. Forget nothing.
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^I don't think that is how forgiveness works. On one hand you forgive him but on the other you still want to punish him. I am sick of this attitude. Maybe I want to watch his stream and donate to him? Who are you really to tell me that I shouldn't? I respect Afreecas decision to ban him - they must have their reasons so I don't try to argue with that. But I am fcking sick of random people, who try to tell others what they should be able to watch.
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I forgive you.
*takes buzzsaw to the neck
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Ok as an update the man stream regularly 4 h:30 min , and he has not a lot of viewers round 700-1000. He is becomming better day by day and his elo is ca 3000 mmr now.
Cheers and have a happy new year
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Forgiveness to me is about the emotional bit. Letting go of anger or hate. It's not about trusting someone again, or forgetting about their actions.
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Alright, so if you don't trust him or you don't forget his actions, then you won't watch and support him. But why people who want to watch him, should not be allowed to? You don't hate him, have no anger, you let go your emotional bit, you forgave him!! So clearly you shouldn't be against him streaming for people that want to follow him, right?
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I just said that I didn't want him playing SC because I feel his fans have gotten exploited enough. I never said that people sould be forbidden from watching him.
Him being banned from tournaments though is good. From a practical standpoint he'd only hurt the reputation of any tournament that he is in.
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You didn't say that people should be forbidden from watching him - but you said that you don't want him to play SC. I don't know what do you mean by it (streaming SC or playing tournaments), but since the topic is about stream, then I assume that u don't want him to play SC on stream. And this way, indirectly, people who want to watch him, are forbidden from watching him. No stream = can't watch. I hope I am clear enough now.
I will quickly respond to "but he can stream something other than SC" argument, which will for sure pop up again soon. Sure, he can, but majority of people who follow him want to see him play some games, so there is simply no point of streaming anything else.
The "fans getting exploited" argument is very silly. People should decide how they want to spend their time and money by themselves. I dare to say that him streaming SC wouldn't affect you in any way at all.
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United States3047 Posts
On December 31 2017 20:05 r33k wrote:Show nested quote +On December 31 2017 18:58 Mohdoo wrote:On December 31 2017 12:21 RWLabs wrote:
If he doesn't play Brood War, I don't really care. It is a massive insult to all fans and people who lost their jobs for him to play the game he had a big hand in destroying.
And based on his actions in the past I highly doubt he actually repented for his crimes. I wouldn't mind people like Fake Yellow coming back, as he admitted to his guilt and has lived an honest life for many years afterwards. Savior on the other hand acted as if he did nothing wrong ("I was only a broker"), banned anyone who said anything remotely close to the word '주작' (Korean meme for Savior's manipulation), and made money by selling BW guides while people in the business found themselves jobless. Does this look like a man who can even feel regret? Wait, how did he lose people their jobs? People are misrepresenting Blizzard sweeping the rug from under KeSPA with SC2 with the match fixing scandal lowering the legitimacy of competitive BW being the opening that allowed Blizzard to enter the Korean scene with SC2. The former was going to happen regardless since Blizzard always had the option to force an enormous fee to run tournaments for the game they didn't want to push (like they are doing now) but Koreans sure do love putting bologna slices over their eyes when it comes to mindless hatred.
BW scene was on decline, as well as e-sports as a whole. But instead of giving these companies a time to transition to transfer over to something else, the match fixing incident put a nail on the coffin and created the downfall of esports infrastructure (4 disbanded teams, 1 studio removed). As well as sponsors pulling out of OSL which forced people to move quicker while some were already losing jobs because corporations decided to pull out of the scene.
So to say 'Koreans being blindeyed by hate' is really an understatement when their friends who worked in the industry exactly knows how huge the impact was at the time, and how it would impact the scene if such things were allowed to happen again and/or associate with those who helped with matchfixing.
On January 01 2018 00:48 Netto. wrote:
The "fans getting exploited" argument is very silly. People should decide how they want to spend their time and money by themselves. I dare to say that him streaming SC wouldn't affect you in any way at all.
It means downfall of anything BW related on the said platform (which is why Afreeca disallowed such things). If that's how fans want to use their money for, then so be it.
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Who cares? Streaming is entertaining, not competing. It's your choice if you watch or not.
Lance Armstrong is part of a pretty great cycling podcast.
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On December 31 2017 20:05 r33k wrote:Show nested quote +On December 31 2017 18:58 Mohdoo wrote:On December 31 2017 12:21 RWLabs wrote:
If he doesn't play Brood War, I don't really care. It is a massive insult to all fans and people who lost their jobs for him to play the game he had a big hand in destroying.
And based on his actions in the past I highly doubt he actually repented for his crimes. I wouldn't mind people like Fake Yellow coming back, as he admitted to his guilt and has lived an honest life for many years afterwards. Savior on the other hand acted as if he did nothing wrong ("I was only a broker"), banned anyone who said anything remotely close to the word '주작' (Korean meme for Savior's manipulation), and made money by selling BW guides while people in the business found themselves jobless. Does this look like a man who can even feel regret? Wait, how did he lose people their jobs? People are misrepresenting Blizzard sweeping the rug from under KeSPA with SC2 with the match fixing scandal lowering the legitimacy of competitive BW being the opening that allowed Blizzard to enter the Korean scene with SC2. The former was going to happen regardless since Blizzard always had the option to force an enormous fee to run tournaments for the game they didn't want to push (like they are doing now) but Koreans sure do love putting bologna slices over their eyes when it comes to mindless hatred.
3 sponsors lost on the spot
4 teams disbanded almost instantly (8 if you count up to 2013)
Lit the fuse for loss of MSL (MBC wanted a reason to replace MBC Game. 2010 got them one.)
Literally begged KAL for sponsorship and planned OSL entirely around them
mmm bologna... right?
Doesn't hurt to do a bit more research before you publicly shame yourself.
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savior must be really amazing guy, if you believe the salt in this thread he almost singlehandedly brought down several organisations and caused widespread destruction, the likes the e-sport world has ever seen. Maybe you should send him to north korea and watch the whole thing crumble from the inside? can anyone stop this man? first the BW scene, next the world ?
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On December 31 2017 21:57 Netto. wrote:
^I don't think that is how forgiveness works. On one hand you forgive him but on the other you still want to punish him. I am sick of this attitude. Maybe I want to watch his stream and donate to him? Who are you really to tell me that I shouldn't? I respect Afreecas decision to ban him - they must have their reasons so I don't try to argue with that. But I am fcking sick of random people, who try to tell others what they should be able to watch.
Then just contact him and give him money, I dont care if He streams, but you with your attitude are disgusting, btw you are a fucking random too.
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EPT
