On February 02 2018 12:14 ggsimida wrote: The real villain of the scene is not savior. its the illegal gambling scene in SK. wake up sheeple. channel your negative emotions there, its the shit that tempting and ruining players lives.
Savior didn't just throw matches for money. He became a part of that scene! Your arguments fall flat on your face, and make it clear that you're backfilling your justifications.
And again, the fact that you think nearly anyone would sell out all their work colleagues for money just shows a lot about your own personality and moral character.
On January 01 2018 13:25 Steelo_Rivers wrote: Why do you have such a strong opinion of someone you don't know? You sound really bitter. You have no idea what the situation was behind the scenes, all you know is what broke out to the media. There's always more to shit like this. If those people were willing to take the fall for him, do you not think they already knew the consequences of their actions? I guess the internet gives everyone a voice though.
You can tell how ridiculous your argument here is by applying it to any other criminal case that comes out in the news.
"Why do you have such a strong opinion about the Columbine shooter? You sound really bitter. You have no idea what the situation was behind the scenes, all you know is what broke out to the media."
Well no, we know that people died in the Columbine shootings. Just like we know that the players Savior pressured were forced out of progaming (note this is not absolving them of blame), and perhaps more importantly, real damage was done to the Brood War scene by his actions.
And Savior has had ample opportunity to give his side of the story. And he did. It's just different every time he tells it, lol
On February 02 2018 12:14 ggsimida wrote: if you are a progamer and a gambler comes along saying that if he will guarantee you USD 50000 to act as their middle man and manipulate and coerce younger gamers with a good chance of not getting caught, would you? how about 100000USD. half a m,illion?
sleazebag or saint, rich or poor ANYONE would immediately be tempted by such an offer don't try to stand on the moral high ground and give me the social justice savior condemnation nonsense rhetoric one has already heard a million trillion times over. the only difference savior was scumbag enough to accept their offer. and just because other gamers have a supposedly clean image doesn't mean they are automatically innocent. maybe they did accept and do similar matchfixing/rigging stuff, but they were smart enough to never get caught?? how would ever know? haha. from what i have seen and heard over the years illegal gambling is still a thing in SK with tons of money on the line and at stake. when the 2010 savior matchfixing incident happened i knew it would not be the last of it and lore and behold, we have the sc2 matchfixing scandal with a new savior in Life.
The real villain of the scene is not savior. its the illegal gambling scene in SK. wake up sheeple. channel your negative emotions there, its the shit that tempting and ruining players lives.
(btw i feel so touched that 2 (different?) people responded to me within ~10 minutes on a beautiful morning with such passionate posts)
Basically this, any amateur BW player, especially probably Foreigners, would throw games for the amount of money sAviOr did, stop acting like you are all perfect and don't suffer from greed lol.
On February 02 2018 12:42 GGzerG wrote:any amateur BW player, especially probably Foreigners, would throw games for the amount of money sAviOr did, stop acting like you are all perfect and don't suffer from greed lol.
"over his entire match-fixing he claims to have made 200000 won (~2000 USD)"
On February 02 2018 12:14 ggsimida wrote: if you are a progamer and a gambler comes along saying that if he will guarantee you USD 50000 to act as their middle man and manipulate and coerce younger gamers with a good chance of not getting caught, would you? how about 100000USD. half a m,illion?
sleazebag or saint, rich or poor ANYONE would immediately be tempted by such an offer don't try to stand on the moral high ground and give me the social justice savior condemnation nonsense rhetoric one has already heard a million trillion times over. the only difference savior was scumbag enough to accept their offer. and just because other gamers have a supposedly clean image doesn't mean they are automatically innocent. maybe they did accept and do similar matchfixing/rigging stuff, but they were smart enough to never get caught?? how would ever know? haha. from what i have seen and heard over the years illegal gambling is still a thing in SK with tons of money on the line and at stake. when the 2010 savior matchfixing incident happened i knew it would not be the last of it and lore and behold, we have the sc2 matchfixing scandal with a new savior in Life.
The real villain of the scene is not savior. its the illegal gambling scene in SK. wake up sheeple. channel your negative emotions there, its the shit that tempting and ruining players lives.
(btw i feel so touched that 2 (different?) people responded to me within ~10 minutes on a beautiful morning with such passionate posts)
real villian is the scene and savior. Savior was in position of authority with him being regarded as the senior and a top progamer. He was the one who propogated this.
Just because other people would fall for that kind of temptation doesnt validate it. You have to remember savior just didn't damage the scene, but made hundreds of other people lose their jobs and future.
and to other korean dude who is trying to vaidate it using terror's video, what savior is saying on stream and amount of money he took according to court document doesnt match up at all. And to trust a guy who already downplayed his crime and denied it on stream.... lol
On February 02 2018 12:14 ggsimida wrote: if you are a progamer and a gambler comes along saying that if he will guarantee you USD 50000 to act as their middle man and manipulate and coerce younger gamers with a good chance of not getting caught, would you? how about 100000USD. half a m,illion?
sleazebag or saint, rich or poor ANYONE would immediately be tempted by such an offer don't try to stand on the moral high ground and give me the social justice savior condemnation nonsense rhetoric one has already heard a million trillion times over. the only difference savior was scumbag enough to accept their offer. and just because other gamers have a supposedly clean image doesn't mean they are automatically innocent. maybe they did accept and do similar matchfixing/rigging stuff, but they were smart enough to never get caught?? how would ever know? haha. from what i have seen and heard over the years illegal gambling is still a thing in SK with tons of money on the line and at stake. when the 2010 savior matchfixing incident happened i knew it would not be the last of it and lore and behold, we have the sc2 matchfixing scandal with a new savior in Life.
The real villain of the scene is not savior. its the illegal gambling scene in SK. wake up sheeple. channel your negative emotions there, its the shit that tempting and ruining players lives.
(btw i feel so touched that 2 (different?) people responded to me within ~10 minutes on a beautiful morning with such passionate posts)
Basically this, any amateur BW player, especially probably Foreigners, would throw games for the amount of money sAviOr did, stop acting like you are all perfect and don't suffer from greed lol.
of course this reply comes from one of the biggest foreign scumbags around. Everyone knows you would do it but not all of us would.
The biggest problem of this scandal was that the people who were established and playing were the one matchfixing, not the ones that are expected: The B-teamers, the people trying to make it in, ones who are trying to impress ect. Matchfixing hit hardest because of who and the positions of those who did it. They were not small time amateurs
but nope, no use convincing someone as blind as you.
On February 02 2018 12:53 jinjin5000 wrote: and to other korean dude who is trying to vaidate it using terror's video, what savior is saying on stream and amount of money he took according to court document doesnt match up at all. And to trust a guy who already downplayed his crime and denied it on stream.... lol
How much is the real figure? I did some looking around and found that the $2000 USD figure is money that Savior pocketed that was supposed to go to the progamers who threw games.
That is to say, not only did he bully others into doing this, he then didn't even pay them their dues when they did it.
I can't believe anyone still defends or respects this shitbag.
On February 02 2018 12:53 jinjin5000 wrote: and to other korean dude who is trying to vaidate it using terror's video, what savior is saying on stream and amount of money he took according to court document doesnt match up at all. And to trust a guy who already downplayed his crime and denied it on stream.... lol
How much is the real figure? I did some looking around and found that the $2000 USD figure is money that Savior pocketed that was supposed to go to the progamers who threw games.
That is to say, not only did he bully others into doing this, he then didn't even pay them their dues when they did it.
I can't believe anyone still defends or respects this shitbag.
I dont know exact figure nor am i expert on this topic, but its widely considered the amount during terror interview he said he took was widely regarded as just fake/low figure in effort to downplay his crimes. Given that his stream often has him flat out denying/avoiding/downplaying his crime, you can't really trust him.
I recall Zeus said (although he is not reliable if you are going by anecdotes, but if that guy is using words from savior himself, I can too) savior took cuts from people he helped to matchfix too. He said theres no way that 2k figure is correct when he was asked that.
and let me take from what he [zeus] said- While savior didn't singlehandedly klil BW himself, since BW was already on downfall when savior did his matchfixing, he did make it go about 32x faster. Thats savior's main contribution, and made people lose their jobs almost overnight. You can't even justify this.
Also, to people arguing over him being able to stream: Him streaming BW itself is a spit on face of other progamers who suffered from his shit. The scene is quite packed and very inclusive with most of streamers being progamers who form their own cliques. Savior joining the afreeca scene does nothing but create toxicity among established people. There may be some who moved on/ignores savior now and try to run around the topic, but a lot of them still hold some kind of resentment.
And support savior to support the "competitiveness" of BW argument: Fuck off. He gets smashed by Britney. Savior isn't anywhere near competitive level as of now.
On February 02 2018 12:14 ggsimida wrote: if you are a progamer and a gambler comes along saying that if he will guarantee you USD 50000 to act as their middle man and manipulate and coerce younger gamers with a good chance of not getting caught, would you? how about 100000USD. half a m,illion?
sleazebag or saint, rich or poor ANYONE would immediately be tempted by such an offer don't try to stand on the moral high ground and give me the social justice savior condemnation nonsense rhetoric one has already heard a million trillion times over. the only difference savior was scumbag enough to accept their offer. and just because other gamers have a supposedly clean image doesn't mean they are automatically innocent. maybe they did accept and do similar matchfixing/rigging stuff, but they were smart enough to never get caught?? how would ever know? haha. from what i have seen and heard over the years illegal gambling is still a thing in SK with tons of money on the line and at stake. when the 2010 savior matchfixing incident happened i knew it would not be the last of it and lore and behold, we have the sc2 matchfixing scandal with a new savior in Life.
The real villain of the scene is not savior. its the illegal gambling scene in SK. wake up sheeple. channel your negative emotions there, its the shit that tempting and ruining players lives.
(btw i feel so touched that 2 (different?) people responded to me within ~10 minutes on a beautiful morning with such passionate posts)
Would you lie to your teammates face and promise him false sums of money just to trick him into match-fixing? Would you act nice and buy dinner to younger players, and try to guilt them into doing illegal activities afterwards? Would you pressure younger players who looked up to you by telling them that they "owe" you a personal favour? Would you purposefully trick your coach into thinking you're still good at the game by cheating during practice games and have the audacity to tell him face-to-face that you would never match-fix and it's just nerves you are suffering from? Would you create false diary entries saying you're trying so hard, and want to do the best for the team but things aren't quite working out, and purposefully display it for everyone to see on your bed? How far would you personally go for some extra cash?
I have no doubt that there were other gamers who match-fixed and were never caught. However, I also have zero doubt that sAviOr took it way further than anybody who escaped unscathed from punishment. sAviOr was not the root cause of all the consequences of the match-fixing scandal, but he knowingly used all of his reach and influence to propagate and spread what was poisoning the scene from the inside, at the cost of personal relationships of those who respected, trusted, and relied on him. You don't see dickheads like Justin trying to make sell a sob story to the Brood War community, and wisely so.
Like I said, go watch his shitty games if you want. Just don't expect too much sympathy when trying to make others feel sorry for the pains sAviOr went through, while at the same time glossing over the more horrifying ramifications of his numerous actions like they were nothing. It may seem like nothing to you, but that's not for you to decide and force down the throats of others.
Make his shitty stream viewer count to eleven for all I care. That's totally your call to make, but don't act like you have the moral high-ground. sAviOr's shitty past actions, his awful gaming skills, and his reliance on past drama may be fascinating to you, but it is all that's left of what was once a superlative player, and I don't feel guilty at all for calling him out for what he is.
On February 02 2018 12:53 jinjin5000 wrote: and to other korean dude who is trying to vaidate it using terror's video, what savior is saying on stream and amount of money he took according to court document doesnt match up at all. And to trust a guy who already downplayed his crime and denied it on stream.... lol
On February 02 2018 11:47 RWLabs wrote: According to his own words he was making over 50000000 won (~45000 USD) at the time and over his entire match-fixing he claims to have made 200000 won (~2000 USD). The numbers are probably bullshit since Savior is pleading for sympathy, but if you have more reliable numbers that can 'feed his family for years' with more than Buddy Burgers from A&W's, you're free to try. Not to mention, Savior had no problem 'feeding his family for years' without resorting to crime.
On February 02 2018 11:47 RWLabs wrote: And let's not act like he was a person who was humble and frugal. Savior was sporting luxury watches worth over 6500 USD. Think he was feeding his family with that? Maybe to better keep track of how long he put the turkey in the oven? Savior also made a killing from championships before Bisu came to play, and then he could've easily transitioned into the increasingly popular Afreeca to make money (which he later tried to do). So it wasn't some noble cause that made Savior break the law, he was a greedy twat who was frustrated that he was a weak player post-Bisu.
Read my post again please. My argument was that by his words he was offered rat shit for matchfixing so he had no magnanimous drive to feed his family. If the numbers are right Savior is a greedy bastard, if the numbers are wrong Savior is a conniving bastard who'd openly lie to thousands of fans after supposedly repenting.
I was Saviors biggest fan when he was playing, i followed him from when he just started up until the painful downfall after being crushed by Bisu. Even during his worst losing streaks i believed.
This being sad, fuck this guy and his stream. Nobody who manipulates lives of others (who were just kids) deserves any recognition or remorse.
On January 02 2018 12:15 paxconsciente wrote: People are way too resentful, the man makes one mistake trying to feed himself because his team had their hand in his wallet his entire career and a surprisingly significant portion of the bw community doesn't even want him to stream. 90% of those idiots would probably do the same thing and probably do it much quicker.
It is common that people with questionable ethics project their own moral deficiencies on others. People who struggle to be ethical aren't able to see that many people really may live significantly more ethical lives. This seems to be where you are struggling. Here's a tip: Good people exist and there are a lot of them. You don't seem to be one, and that's okay, but don't pretend it is normal or acceptable.
That was the nicest stfu I ever read in my life.
I wouldn't throw matches in a game of anything ever or cheat on a test. Its called integrity,
its always easy to say all that whilst sitting in your comfy armchair. If you come from a poor/modest upbringing and suddenly someone offers you crazy wads of cash (that can feed you and your family for years) to betray your principles, how many people would be able to retain their sanity to reject it then and there? 90% may be a gross exaggeration but i still bet a significant amount would fall for the temptation.
In this capitialistic world everyone has a price. even rich people go through all sorts of illegal hoops to maintain and increase their wealth through tax evasion, laundering and the like. the only difference savior and his ilk was unfortunate/stupid enough to not take enough measures to avoid getting caught.
conveniently ignoring the other points about his character i mentioned.
On February 02 2018 12:14 ggsimida wrote: if you are a progamer and a gambler comes along saying that if he will guarantee you USD 50000 to act as their middle man and manipulate and coerce younger gamers with a good chance of not getting caught, would you? how about 100000USD. half a m,illion?
sleazebag or saint, rich or poor ANYONE would immediately be tempted by such an offer don't try to stand on the moral high ground and give me the social justice savior condemnation nonsense rhetoric one has already heard a million trillion times over. the only difference savior was scumbag enough to accept their offer. and just because other gamers have a supposedly clean image doesn't mean they are automatically innocent. maybe they did accept and do similar matchfixing/rigging stuff, but they were smart enough to never get caught?? how would ever know? haha. from what i have seen and heard over the years illegal gambling is still a thing in SK with tons of money on the line and at stake. when the 2010 savior matchfixing incident happened i knew it would not be the last of it and lore and behold, we have the sc2 matchfixing scandal with a new savior in Life.
The real villain of the scene is not savior. its the illegal gambling scene in SK. wake up sheeple. channel your negative emotions there, its the shit that tempting and ruining players lives.
(btw i feel so touched that 2 (different?) people responded to me within ~10 minutes on a beautiful morning with such passionate posts)
Money isn't everything and the point being made about what type of person he is just goes over your head every time. Being tempted and acting on those impulses are what makes a man. Savior is a shitty one. He could match fix but he didnt have to use his star status to manipulate player to go down with him. Would you rob a bank if you were poor? I know i am not rich by a long shot but that doesn't mean i would sink to things just for some easy money. Sure its easy to say in my "comfy armchair" doesn't mean i am wrong though.
EPT
