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On November 13 2017 23:20 Qikz wrote:
One thing I don't get here is do people really have to play ladder? Why not just host custom games like we did on iCCUP. I'm considering doing that just so I can play more maps.
There is a big difference between hosting customs games on ICCUP compared to the offcial servers because they divided the foreign scene by still having 4 servers (+1 for Korea) for whatever reason. So only a fraction of foreign players can even see and join your game, making even matches very unlikely.
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I feel like we as a community could be a better job keeping resources fresh. Seasonal practice partner threads or maybe some division between low/high mmr players would help. Lots of people posting on BW subreddit (which is barely used to begin with) looking for pp that don't post here. I think it's too intimidating posting next to a 2300 multiseason iccup veteran.
BW Is a solved game with a lot of questions sufficiently answered to anyone with that can google search site:TL, and I accept that. Just feels like there isn't much in the way of fresh clan/practice partner resources despite the fact that a new client launched. Need a new player experience remaster from the scene itself.
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On November 13 2017 16:41 ReachTheSky wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2017 14:43 Liquid`Drone wrote:
I participated in WCG 2004, and it was probably my greatest brood war experience. And no, we haven't had anything like it for years. But the italian esports tourney and the Zotac tournament in the US are actually the closest things we've had for a decade - both tournaments throwing more money to the nonkorean community than any WCG cept 2003 ever did (not factoring in travel costs). I'm saying that SC:R has made the nonkorean tournament scene significantly better and indisputably so than it has been since SC2 was released, so since 2009 or whatever. And with the exception of WCG, 2001-2009 were also much worse than it is right now. And both as a player and a spectator, I'd rather have 4 tournaments per week with average prize pools of $100 than 1 tournament per year with $35000 for the top 3 (where koreans won between $20000 the entire prize pool every single year). In addition, it wasn't even possible to really follow the tourneys back then, some players would smuggle out replays, but there was no live broadcast.. You make it seem like the scene is growing, but it's actually the opposite. Here are the latest attendance numbers from the TL opens. This is just numbers from the TL opens, i'm sure other tournaments have taken a huge hit as well. It also only says how many registered, the number of players who attended is more than likely lower. I believe this 66%+ decline is largely due to blizzards inability to address issues with their game. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/bw-tournaments/527355-tl-open-1(Wiki)Team Liquid Open 1 175 registered (Wiki)Notforu http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/bw-tournaments/527585-tl-open-2(Wiki)Team Liquid Open 2 89 registered Ty2 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/bw-tournaments/527829-tl-open-3(Wiki)Team Liquid Open 3 87 registered (Wiki)Bonyth http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/bw-tournaments/527829-tl-open-4(Wiki)Team Liquid Open 4 70 registered (Wiki)TrutaCz http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/bw-tournaments/528466-tl-open-5(Wiki)Team Liquid Open 5 55 registered (Wiki)Bonyth
Less people are going to sign-up if they realize there's no chance of them winning, or even coming close.
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United Kingdom12023 Posts
On November 14 2017 04:19 Cryoc wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2017 23:20 Qikz wrote:
One thing I don't get here is do people really have to play ladder? Why not just host custom games like we did on iCCUP. I'm considering doing that just so I can play more maps. There is a big difference between hosting customs games on ICCUP compared to the offcial servers because they divided the foreign scene by still having 4 servers (+1 for Korea) for whatever reason. So only a fraction of foreign players can even see and join your game, making even matches very unlikely.
That is a very fair point.
Do you think all of us banding together and picking one gateway to go on would help?
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On November 14 2017 04:19 Cryoc wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2017 23:20 Qikz wrote:
One thing I don't get here is do people really have to play ladder? Why not just host custom games like we did on iCCUP. I'm considering doing that just so I can play more maps. There is a big difference between hosting customs games on ICCUP compared to the offcial servers because they divided the foreign scene by still having 4 servers (+1 for Korea) for whatever reason. So only a fraction of foreign players can even see and join your game, making even matches very unlikely.
You`re absolutly right from that perspective, however on the other hand, If ithere was only one server, that would mean that every game apart from 1v1s would be unplayable because of korean and peruvian lag.
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On November 14 2017 05:18 Qikz wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2017 04:19 Cryoc wrote:On November 13 2017 23:20 Qikz wrote:
One thing I don't get here is do people really have to play ladder? Why not just host custom games like we did on iCCUP. I'm considering doing that just so I can play more maps. There is a big difference between hosting customs games on ICCUP compared to the offcial servers because they divided the foreign scene by still having 4 servers (+1 for Korea) for whatever reason. So only a fraction of foreign players can even see and join your game, making even matches very unlikely. That is a very fair point. Do you think all of us banding together and picking one gateway to go on would help?
Probably, it would also help ums players. At the moment at least on the Europe server ums games almost don't seem to exist. But it is hard to reach all players, I don't think the majority of the players read TL or the Blizzard forums.
On November 14 2017 05:26 noname_ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2017 04:19 Cryoc wrote:On November 13 2017 23:20 Qikz wrote:
One thing I don't get here is do people really have to play ladder? Why not just host custom games like we did on iCCUP. I'm considering doing that just so I can play more maps. There is a big difference between hosting customs games on ICCUP compared to the offcial servers because they divided the foreign scene by still having 4 servers (+1 for Korea) for whatever reason. So only a fraction of foreign players can even see and join your game, making even matches very unlikely. You`re absolutly right from that perspective, however on the other hand, If ithere was only one server, that would mean that every game apart from 1v1s would be unplayable because of korean and peruvian lag.
Well Koreans have their own server of course and I would happily live with the occasional laggy game vs a Peruvian but more games in general including ums in return vs only laggy games vs Koreans on a ladder which doesn't seem to check if the connection between the players is good and just reduces the turn rate if it is not instead of searching for an alternative.
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Alright, if I make a SC:R Podcast, who should I have involved?
We'll chat about tournaments, current game-meta, and of course complain about SC:R bugs/problems. Probably weekly for an hour or two each time.
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On November 14 2017 04:40 ninazerg wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2017 16:41 ReachTheSky wrote:On November 13 2017 14:43 Liquid`Drone wrote:
I participated in WCG 2004, and it was probably my greatest brood war experience. And no, we haven't had anything like it for years. But the italian esports tourney and the Zotac tournament in the US are actually the closest things we've had for a decade - both tournaments throwing more money to the nonkorean community than any WCG cept 2003 ever did (not factoring in travel costs). I'm saying that SC:R has made the nonkorean tournament scene significantly better and indisputably so than it has been since SC2 was released, so since 2009 or whatever. And with the exception of WCG, 2001-2009 were also much worse than it is right now. And both as a player and a spectator, I'd rather have 4 tournaments per week with average prize pools of $100 than 1 tournament per year with $35000 for the top 3 (where koreans won between $20000 the entire prize pool every single year). In addition, it wasn't even possible to really follow the tourneys back then, some players would smuggle out replays, but there was no live broadcast.. You make it seem like the scene is growing, but it's actually the opposite. Here are the latest attendance numbers from the TL opens. This is just numbers from the TL opens, i'm sure other tournaments have taken a huge hit as well. It also only says how many registered, the number of players who attended is more than likely lower. I believe this 66%+ decline is largely due to blizzards inability to address issues with their game. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/bw-tournaments/527355-tl-open-1(Wiki)Team Liquid Open 1 175 registered (Wiki)Notforu http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/bw-tournaments/527585-tl-open-2(Wiki)Team Liquid Open 2 89 registered Ty2 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/bw-tournaments/527829-tl-open-3(Wiki)Team Liquid Open 3 87 registered (Wiki)Bonyth http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/bw-tournaments/527829-tl-open-4(Wiki)Team Liquid Open 4 70 registered (Wiki)TrutaCz http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/bw-tournaments/528466-tl-open-5(Wiki)Team Liquid Open 5 55 registered (Wiki)Bonyth Less people are going to sign-up if they realize there's no chance of them winning, or even coming close.
This data + the fact that ladder is unplayable supports my narrative. Your narrative just makes players sound like losers who don't try, it's a competitive game, that's what were here for. I don't think what you are saying is realistic in anyway. It's not like the koreans were allowed to play in them and then the foreigners bounced lol.
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On November 14 2017 07:12 ReachTheSky wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2017 04:40 ninazerg wrote:On November 13 2017 16:41 ReachTheSky wrote:On November 13 2017 14:43 Liquid`Drone wrote:
I participated in WCG 2004, and it was probably my greatest brood war experience. And no, we haven't had anything like it for years. But the italian esports tourney and the Zotac tournament in the US are actually the closest things we've had for a decade - both tournaments throwing more money to the nonkorean community than any WCG cept 2003 ever did (not factoring in travel costs). I'm saying that SC:R has made the nonkorean tournament scene significantly better and indisputably so than it has been since SC2 was released, so since 2009 or whatever. And with the exception of WCG, 2001-2009 were also much worse than it is right now. And both as a player and a spectator, I'd rather have 4 tournaments per week with average prize pools of $100 than 1 tournament per year with $35000 for the top 3 (where koreans won between $20000 the entire prize pool every single year). In addition, it wasn't even possible to really follow the tourneys back then, some players would smuggle out replays, but there was no live broadcast.. You make it seem like the scene is growing, but it's actually the opposite. Here are the latest attendance numbers from the TL opens. This is just numbers from the TL opens, i'm sure other tournaments have taken a huge hit as well. It also only says how many registered, the number of players who attended is more than likely lower. I believe this 66%+ decline is largely due to blizzards inability to address issues with their game. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/bw-tournaments/527355-tl-open-1(Wiki)Team Liquid Open 1 175 registered (Wiki)Notforu http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/bw-tournaments/527585-tl-open-2(Wiki)Team Liquid Open 2 89 registered Ty2 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/bw-tournaments/527829-tl-open-3(Wiki)Team Liquid Open 3 87 registered (Wiki)Bonyth http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/bw-tournaments/527829-tl-open-4(Wiki)Team Liquid Open 4 70 registered (Wiki)TrutaCz http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/bw-tournaments/528466-tl-open-5(Wiki)Team Liquid Open 5 55 registered (Wiki)Bonyth Less people are going to sign-up if they realize there's no chance of them winning, or even coming close. This data + the fact that ladder is unplayable supports my narrative. Your narrative just makes players sound like losers who don't try, it's a competitive game, that's what were here for. I don't think what you are saying is realistic in anyway. It's not like the koreans were allowed to play in them and then the foreigners bounced lol.
Tournaments go through spurts of lots of people signing up and not. Sometimes it's just organic, sometimes it means changes need to be done to the tournament. It's all weird and beyond me. Have At You grew and shrunk a lot in it's 12 runs, same with filthycup
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On November 14 2017 07:16 SchAmToo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2017 07:12 ReachTheSky wrote:On November 14 2017 04:40 ninazerg wrote:On November 13 2017 16:41 ReachTheSky wrote:On November 13 2017 14:43 Liquid`Drone wrote:
I participated in WCG 2004, and it was probably my greatest brood war experience. And no, we haven't had anything like it for years. But the italian esports tourney and the Zotac tournament in the US are actually the closest things we've had for a decade - both tournaments throwing more money to the nonkorean community than any WCG cept 2003 ever did (not factoring in travel costs). I'm saying that SC:R has made the nonkorean tournament scene significantly better and indisputably so than it has been since SC2 was released, so since 2009 or whatever. And with the exception of WCG, 2001-2009 were also much worse than it is right now. And both as a player and a spectator, I'd rather have 4 tournaments per week with average prize pools of $100 than 1 tournament per year with $35000 for the top 3 (where koreans won between $20000 the entire prize pool every single year). In addition, it wasn't even possible to really follow the tourneys back then, some players would smuggle out replays, but there was no live broadcast.. You make it seem like the scene is growing, but it's actually the opposite. Here are the latest attendance numbers from the TL opens. This is just numbers from the TL opens, i'm sure other tournaments have taken a huge hit as well. It also only says how many registered, the number of players who attended is more than likely lower. I believe this 66%+ decline is largely due to blizzards inability to address issues with their game. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/bw-tournaments/527355-tl-open-1(Wiki)Team Liquid Open 1 175 registered (Wiki)Notforu http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/bw-tournaments/527585-tl-open-2(Wiki)Team Liquid Open 2 89 registered Ty2 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/bw-tournaments/527829-tl-open-3(Wiki)Team Liquid Open 3 87 registered (Wiki)Bonyth http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/bw-tournaments/527829-tl-open-4(Wiki)Team Liquid Open 4 70 registered (Wiki)TrutaCz http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/bw-tournaments/528466-tl-open-5(Wiki)Team Liquid Open 5 55 registered (Wiki)Bonyth Less people are going to sign-up if they realize there's no chance of them winning, or even coming close. This data + the fact that ladder is unplayable supports my narrative. Your narrative just makes players sound like losers who don't try, it's a competitive game, that's what were here for. I don't think what you are saying is realistic in anyway. It's not like the koreans were allowed to play in them and then the foreigners bounced lol. Tournaments go through spurts of lots of people signing up and not. Sometimes it's just organic, sometimes it means changes need to be done to the tournament. It's all weird and beyond me. Have At You grew and shrunk a lot in it's 12 runs, same with filthycup
People stopped playing because they can't practice on ladder at the highest levels due to insane lag.
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On November 14 2017 07:51 ReachTheSky wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2017 07:16 SchAmToo wrote:On November 14 2017 07:12 ReachTheSky wrote:On November 14 2017 04:40 ninazerg wrote:On November 13 2017 16:41 ReachTheSky wrote:On November 13 2017 14:43 Liquid`Drone wrote:
I participated in WCG 2004, and it was probably my greatest brood war experience. And no, we haven't had anything like it for years. But the italian esports tourney and the Zotac tournament in the US are actually the closest things we've had for a decade - both tournaments throwing more money to the nonkorean community than any WCG cept 2003 ever did (not factoring in travel costs). I'm saying that SC:R has made the nonkorean tournament scene significantly better and indisputably so than it has been since SC2 was released, so since 2009 or whatever. And with the exception of WCG, 2001-2009 were also much worse than it is right now. And both as a player and a spectator, I'd rather have 4 tournaments per week with average prize pools of $100 than 1 tournament per year with $35000 for the top 3 (where koreans won between $20000 the entire prize pool every single year). In addition, it wasn't even possible to really follow the tourneys back then, some players would smuggle out replays, but there was no live broadcast.. You make it seem like the scene is growing, but it's actually the opposite. Here are the latest attendance numbers from the TL opens. This is just numbers from the TL opens, i'm sure other tournaments have taken a huge hit as well. It also only says how many registered, the number of players who attended is more than likely lower. I believe this 66%+ decline is largely due to blizzards inability to address issues with their game. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/bw-tournaments/527355-tl-open-1(Wiki)Team Liquid Open 1 175 registered (Wiki)Notforu http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/bw-tournaments/527585-tl-open-2(Wiki)Team Liquid Open 2 89 registered Ty2 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/bw-tournaments/527829-tl-open-3(Wiki)Team Liquid Open 3 87 registered (Wiki)Bonyth http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/bw-tournaments/527829-tl-open-4(Wiki)Team Liquid Open 4 70 registered (Wiki)TrutaCz http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/bw-tournaments/528466-tl-open-5(Wiki)Team Liquid Open 5 55 registered (Wiki)Bonyth Less people are going to sign-up if they realize there's no chance of them winning, or even coming close. This data + the fact that ladder is unplayable supports my narrative. Your narrative just makes players sound like losers who don't try, it's a competitive game, that's what were here for. I don't think what you are saying is realistic in anyway. It's not like the koreans were allowed to play in them and then the foreigners bounced lol. Tournaments go through spurts of lots of people signing up and not. Sometimes it's just organic, sometimes it means changes need to be done to the tournament. It's all weird and beyond me. Have At You grew and shrunk a lot in it's 12 runs, same with filthycup People stopped playing because they can't practice on ladder at the highest levels due to insane lag.
How's the lag any different from iCCup/Fish? If you're good enough, it was impossible to find games on iCCup anyway, so players went to Fish and played Koreans. Playing Koreans on ladder feels exactly the same to me as playing with them on Fish. There's some lag, but there always was.
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On November 13 2017 14:06 ReachTheSky wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2017 05:26 404AlphaSquad wrote:On November 13 2017 03:47 ReachTheSky wrote:On November 13 2017 03:32 404AlphaSquad wrote:On November 12 2017 22:42 Dantak wrote:
How "What can we as a community do to improve StarCraft" turned into "What's bad with SC:R" in 3 pages Its the only thing that people do around here. Just whining and bitching about SC:R and blizzards secret agenda to ruin their favorite game. Its what you get after 19 years of inbred jokes and circle-jerking each others importance in a niche RTS forum of an even more niche game on the decline. There is bound to be some illusion of grandeur for most, even though nobody actually cares about them. Every single long time BW player has a right to be pissed off. They effectively killed off all the old servers and released a sub-par product. BW was fine for years and then blizzard had to do their thing and they turned it into a pile of shit. what server did they shut down and what proof do you have of it? Brain server, fish server, all the servers from back in the day... It's no secret at all.
so there is no evidence. great.
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On November 14 2017 09:02 404AlphaSquad wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2017 14:06 ReachTheSky wrote:On November 13 2017 05:26 404AlphaSquad wrote:On November 13 2017 03:47 ReachTheSky wrote:On November 13 2017 03:32 404AlphaSquad wrote:On November 12 2017 22:42 Dantak wrote:
How "What can we as a community do to improve StarCraft" turned into "What's bad with SC:R" in 3 pages Its the only thing that people do around here. Just whining and bitching about SC:R and blizzards secret agenda to ruin their favorite game. Its what you get after 19 years of inbred jokes and circle-jerking each others importance in a niche RTS forum of an even more niche game on the decline. There is bound to be some illusion of grandeur for most, even though nobody actually cares about them. Every single long time BW player has a right to be pissed off. They effectively killed off all the old servers and released a sub-par product. BW was fine for years and then blizzard had to do their thing and they turned it into a pile of shit. what server did they shut down and what proof do you have of it? Brain server, fish server, all the servers from back in the day... It's no secret at all. so there is no evidence. great.
Dude there was a thread within the last 30 days of blizzard shutting down a server lol. If you want to see evidence go look for it, I don't have time to do YOUR research for you. Don't be lazy.
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Norway28707 Posts
On November 14 2017 08:23 Sero wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2017 07:51 ReachTheSky wrote:On November 14 2017 07:16 SchAmToo wrote:On November 14 2017 07:12 ReachTheSky wrote:On November 14 2017 04:40 ninazerg wrote:On November 13 2017 16:41 ReachTheSky wrote:On November 13 2017 14:43 Liquid`Drone wrote:
I participated in WCG 2004, and it was probably my greatest brood war experience. And no, we haven't had anything like it for years. But the italian esports tourney and the Zotac tournament in the US are actually the closest things we've had for a decade - both tournaments throwing more money to the nonkorean community than any WCG cept 2003 ever did (not factoring in travel costs). I'm saying that SC:R has made the nonkorean tournament scene significantly better and indisputably so than it has been since SC2 was released, so since 2009 or whatever. And with the exception of WCG, 2001-2009 were also much worse than it is right now. And both as a player and a spectator, I'd rather have 4 tournaments per week with average prize pools of $100 than 1 tournament per year with $35000 for the top 3 (where koreans won between $20000 the entire prize pool every single year). In addition, it wasn't even possible to really follow the tourneys back then, some players would smuggle out replays, but there was no live broadcast.. You make it seem like the scene is growing, but it's actually the opposite. Here are the latest attendance numbers from the TL opens. This is just numbers from the TL opens, i'm sure other tournaments have taken a huge hit as well. It also only says how many registered, the number of players who attended is more than likely lower. I believe this 66%+ decline is largely due to blizzards inability to address issues with their game. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/bw-tournaments/527355-tl-open-1(Wiki)Team Liquid Open 1 175 registered (Wiki)Notforu http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/bw-tournaments/527585-tl-open-2(Wiki)Team Liquid Open 2 89 registered Ty2 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/bw-tournaments/527829-tl-open-3(Wiki)Team Liquid Open 3 87 registered (Wiki)Bonyth http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/bw-tournaments/527829-tl-open-4(Wiki)Team Liquid Open 4 70 registered (Wiki)TrutaCz http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/bw-tournaments/528466-tl-open-5(Wiki)Team Liquid Open 5 55 registered (Wiki)Bonyth Less people are going to sign-up if they realize there's no chance of them winning, or even coming close. This data + the fact that ladder is unplayable supports my narrative. Your narrative just makes players sound like losers who don't try, it's a competitive game, that's what were here for. I don't think what you are saying is realistic in anyway. It's not like the koreans were allowed to play in them and then the foreigners bounced lol. Tournaments go through spurts of lots of people signing up and not. Sometimes it's just organic, sometimes it means changes need to be done to the tournament. It's all weird and beyond me. Have At You grew and shrunk a lot in it's 12 runs, same with filthycup People stopped playing because they can't practice on ladder at the highest levels due to insane lag. How's the lag any different from iCCup/Fish? If you're good enough, it was impossible to find games on iCCup anyway, so players went to Fish and played Koreans. Playing Koreans on ladder feels exactly the same to me as playing with them on Fish. There's some lag, but there always was.
For me Fish was actually unplayable, I would just immediately get banned from every game, and if the game actually started, my opponent would then just leave. And while there was a period where the ladder was lagging in a way that was also largely unplayable, the few games I've played with koreans recently have been fairly lag and problem-free.
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On November 14 2017 09:17 ReachTheSky wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2017 09:02 404AlphaSquad wrote:On November 13 2017 14:06 ReachTheSky wrote:On November 13 2017 05:26 404AlphaSquad wrote:On November 13 2017 03:47 ReachTheSky wrote:On November 13 2017 03:32 404AlphaSquad wrote:On November 12 2017 22:42 Dantak wrote:
How "What can we as a community do to improve StarCraft" turned into "What's bad with SC:R" in 3 pages Its the only thing that people do around here. Just whining and bitching about SC:R and blizzards secret agenda to ruin their favorite game. Its what you get after 19 years of inbred jokes and circle-jerking each others importance in a niche RTS forum of an even more niche game on the decline. There is bound to be some illusion of grandeur for most, even though nobody actually cares about them. Every single long time BW player has a right to be pissed off. They effectively killed off all the old servers and released a sub-par product. BW was fine for years and then blizzard had to do their thing and they turned it into a pile of shit. what server did they shut down and what proof do you have of it? Brain server, fish server, all the servers from back in the day... It's no secret at all. so there is no evidence. great. Dude there was a thread within the last 30 days of blizzard shutting down a server lol. If you want to see evidence go look for it, I don't have time to do YOUR research for you. Don't be lazy.
The burden of proof if on whoever is making the claim. I saw that thread, it didnt say blizzard did anything:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/brood-war/527956-brain-server-has-shut-down
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On November 14 2017 06:52 SchAmToo wrote:
Alright, if I make a SC:R Podcast, who should I have involved?
We'll chat about tournaments, current game-meta, and of course complain about SC:R bugs/problems. Probably weekly for an hour or two each time.
Tbh I think having other casters on as core members make a lot of sense, since all the big casters in the SC:R community atm are charismatic and good at carrying on conversations. And as for common guests, I would like to see people like Bonyth/Eon/Trutacz/Dandy/Dewalt/Terror/Ty2 etc. but also think it would be super cool to have Scan on also so we can hear about the Korean StarCraft: Remastered community. I feel so unaware and out of the loop with what koreans are doing between ASLs and just how everything is over there.
Also: Bisudagger, FlashFTW, EsportsJohn are people that would be good on the show as well. Teamliquid article writers would be a nice addition as well, so they could talk about their article pieces. They always put a ton of work into the ASL reviews and previews and I think it'd be cool to hear them talk about their opinions since a lot of them are so knowledgeable.
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51497 Posts
On November 14 2017 06:52 SchAmToo wrote:
Alright, if I make a SC:R Podcast, who should I have involved?
We'll chat about tournaments, current game-meta, and of course complain about SC:R bugs/problems. Probably weekly for an hour or two each time.
i was actually thinking of doing something like this after i'm done with my thesis starting next week but if you want to host it then feel free to.
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On November 14 2017 07:12 ReachTheSky wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2017 04:40 ninazerg wrote:On November 13 2017 16:41 ReachTheSky wrote:On November 13 2017 14:43 Liquid`Drone wrote:
I participated in WCG 2004, and it was probably my greatest brood war experience. And no, we haven't had anything like it for years. But the italian esports tourney and the Zotac tournament in the US are actually the closest things we've had for a decade - both tournaments throwing more money to the nonkorean community than any WCG cept 2003 ever did (not factoring in travel costs). I'm saying that SC:R has made the nonkorean tournament scene significantly better and indisputably so than it has been since SC2 was released, so since 2009 or whatever. And with the exception of WCG, 2001-2009 were also much worse than it is right now. And both as a player and a spectator, I'd rather have 4 tournaments per week with average prize pools of $100 than 1 tournament per year with $35000 for the top 3 (where koreans won between $20000 the entire prize pool every single year). In addition, it wasn't even possible to really follow the tourneys back then, some players would smuggle out replays, but there was no live broadcast.. You make it seem like the scene is growing, but it's actually the opposite. Here are the latest attendance numbers from the TL opens. This is just numbers from the TL opens, i'm sure other tournaments have taken a huge hit as well. It also only says how many registered, the number of players who attended is more than likely lower. I believe this 66%+ decline is largely due to blizzards inability to address issues with their game. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/bw-tournaments/527355-tl-open-1(Wiki)Team Liquid Open 1 175 registered (Wiki)Notforu http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/bw-tournaments/527585-tl-open-2(Wiki)Team Liquid Open 2 89 registered Ty2 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/bw-tournaments/527829-tl-open-3(Wiki)Team Liquid Open 3 87 registered (Wiki)Bonyth http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/bw-tournaments/527829-tl-open-4(Wiki)Team Liquid Open 4 70 registered (Wiki)TrutaCz http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/bw-tournaments/528466-tl-open-5(Wiki)Team Liquid Open 5 55 registered (Wiki)Bonyth Less people are going to sign-up if they realize there's no chance of them winning, or even coming close. This data + the fact that ladder is unplayable supports my narrative. Your narrative just makes players sound like losers who don't try, it's a competitive game, that's what were here for. I don't think what you are saying is realistic in anyway. It's not like the koreans were allowed to play in them and then the foreigners bounced lol.
First of all, let's say for the sake of argument, that all the players were huge, insecure losers. Whether they are losers or not does lend or detract to the legitimacy of my argument. If you want to talk about "the facts", you're not even considering things like stream viewers as a metric for 'success'. You're not considering that a lot of players who signed up for the ro258 tour were like D-C rank iCCup. I actually know a bunch of them, so don't talk to me about a narrative. The tournament typically goes on for 6 hours, which is a lot of time to commit. Some good players have even said that they think it goes on too long, and is exhausting.
Second, I'm not calling players 'losers'. You're putting words in my mouth, and if you think I'm suggesting that, you're fucking wrong. I actually signed up to help run the TL Open tours as an admin, and volunteered my time for free because I love the game and I want to help the players. I wouldn't do that if I thought they were a bunch of losers. What's happening is not a sign of anything other than tournament fatigue. If you looked past tournaments, you'd see the trend of a lot of people signing up for the first one, and then a drop-off in sign-ups in later tournaments.
Most people who are around sub-2000 mmr would rather watch and enjoy it that way. Some sign up and then get knocked out of the tour right away by the good players.
On November 14 2017 07:51 ReachTheSky wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2017 07:16 SchAmToo wrote:On November 14 2017 07:12 ReachTheSky wrote:On November 14 2017 04:40 ninazerg wrote:On November 13 2017 16:41 ReachTheSky wrote:On November 13 2017 14:43 Liquid`Drone wrote:
I participated in WCG 2004, and it was probably my greatest brood war experience. And no, we haven't had anything like it for years. But the italian esports tourney and the Zotac tournament in the US are actually the closest things we've had for a decade - both tournaments throwing more money to the nonkorean community than any WCG cept 2003 ever did (not factoring in travel costs). I'm saying that SC:R has made the nonkorean tournament scene significantly better and indisputably so than it has been since SC2 was released, so since 2009 or whatever. And with the exception of WCG, 2001-2009 were also much worse than it is right now. And both as a player and a spectator, I'd rather have 4 tournaments per week with average prize pools of $100 than 1 tournament per year with $35000 for the top 3 (where koreans won between $20000 the entire prize pool every single year). In addition, it wasn't even possible to really follow the tourneys back then, some players would smuggle out replays, but there was no live broadcast.. You make it seem like the scene is growing, but it's actually the opposite. Here are the latest attendance numbers from the TL opens. This is just numbers from the TL opens, i'm sure other tournaments have taken a huge hit as well. It also only says how many registered, the number of players who attended is more than likely lower. I believe this 66%+ decline is largely due to blizzards inability to address issues with their game. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/bw-tournaments/527355-tl-open-1(Wiki)Team Liquid Open 1 175 registered (Wiki)Notforu http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/bw-tournaments/527585-tl-open-2(Wiki)Team Liquid Open 2 89 registered Ty2 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/bw-tournaments/527829-tl-open-3(Wiki)Team Liquid Open 3 87 registered (Wiki)Bonyth http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/bw-tournaments/527829-tl-open-4(Wiki)Team Liquid Open 4 70 registered (Wiki)TrutaCz http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/bw-tournaments/528466-tl-open-5(Wiki)Team Liquid Open 5 55 registered (Wiki)Bonyth Less people are going to sign-up if they realize there's no chance of them winning, or even coming close. This data + the fact that ladder is unplayable supports my narrative. Your narrative just makes players sound like losers who don't try, it's a competitive game, that's what were here for. I don't think what you are saying is realistic in anyway. It's not like the koreans were allowed to play in them and then the foreigners bounced lol. Tournaments go through spurts of lots of people signing up and not. Sometimes it's just organic, sometimes it means changes need to be done to the tournament. It's all weird and beyond me. Have At You grew and shrunk a lot in it's 12 runs, same with filthycup People stopped playing because they can't practice on ladder at the highest levels due to insane lag.
If you play against people from all around the world, you're going to run into lag. Welcome to the miracle of the internet.
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On November 14 2017 08:23 Sero wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2017 07:51 ReachTheSky wrote:On November 14 2017 07:16 SchAmToo wrote:On November 14 2017 07:12 ReachTheSky wrote:On November 14 2017 04:40 ninazerg wrote:On November 13 2017 16:41 ReachTheSky wrote:On November 13 2017 14:43 Liquid`Drone wrote:
I participated in WCG 2004, and it was probably my greatest brood war experience. And no, we haven't had anything like it for years. But the italian esports tourney and the Zotac tournament in the US are actually the closest things we've had for a decade - both tournaments throwing more money to the nonkorean community than any WCG cept 2003 ever did (not factoring in travel costs). I'm saying that SC:R has made the nonkorean tournament scene significantly better and indisputably so than it has been since SC2 was released, so since 2009 or whatever. And with the exception of WCG, 2001-2009 were also much worse than it is right now. And both as a player and a spectator, I'd rather have 4 tournaments per week with average prize pools of $100 than 1 tournament per year with $35000 for the top 3 (where koreans won between $20000 the entire prize pool every single year). In addition, it wasn't even possible to really follow the tourneys back then, some players would smuggle out replays, but there was no live broadcast.. You make it seem like the scene is growing, but it's actually the opposite. Here are the latest attendance numbers from the TL opens. This is just numbers from the TL opens, i'm sure other tournaments have taken a huge hit as well. It also only says how many registered, the number of players who attended is more than likely lower. I believe this 66%+ decline is largely due to blizzards inability to address issues with their game. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/bw-tournaments/527355-tl-open-1(Wiki)Team Liquid Open 1 175 registered (Wiki)Notforu http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/bw-tournaments/527585-tl-open-2(Wiki)Team Liquid Open 2 89 registered Ty2 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/bw-tournaments/527829-tl-open-3(Wiki)Team Liquid Open 3 87 registered (Wiki)Bonyth http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/bw-tournaments/527829-tl-open-4(Wiki)Team Liquid Open 4 70 registered (Wiki)TrutaCz http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/bw-tournaments/528466-tl-open-5(Wiki)Team Liquid Open 5 55 registered (Wiki)Bonyth Less people are going to sign-up if they realize there's no chance of them winning, or even coming close. This data + the fact that ladder is unplayable supports my narrative. Your narrative just makes players sound like losers who don't try, it's a competitive game, that's what were here for. I don't think what you are saying is realistic in anyway. It's not like the koreans were allowed to play in them and then the foreigners bounced lol. Tournaments go through spurts of lots of people signing up and not. Sometimes it's just organic, sometimes it means changes need to be done to the tournament. It's all weird and beyond me. Have At You grew and shrunk a lot in it's 12 runs, same with filthycup People stopped playing because they can't practice on ladder at the highest levels due to insane lag. How's the lag any different from iCCup/Fish? If you're good enough, it was impossible to find games on iCCup anyway, so players went to Fish and played Koreans. Playing Koreans on ladder feels exactly the same to me as playing with them on Fish. There's some lag, but there always was.
It's not the same at all for most people because the system pairs you with any Korean, regardless of whether the game will lag or not. In the old system you can decide to only play games versus Koreans you don't lag with, and finally if the game lags horribly during the first 2 minutes, you had the option to leave.
Most people were blinded by the superficial appeal of a match making algorithm/server. Too bad you lose almost all control, which is something high level players need the most as they are the ones willing to spend some extra time to set games up, and when they find someone suitable, play a series instead of just a single game.
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EPT
