EPTTL recruiting BW writers and TLPDers - Page 3
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Malinor
Germany4758 Posts
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Jealous
10365 Posts
On August 12 2017 23:34 Malinor wrote: 5,6 or 7 years ago I would have happily done this for free. But TL is trying so hard nowadays to be a big eSports-Hub, I cannot agree with all these "applications" for unpaid positions. I would agree with you if these positions somehow furthered the "eSports" side of their profits, but I imagine the only money TeamLiquid makes off of BW is through ad revenue. I could understand a royalties-type payout system, such as a certain fixed % of ad revenue from your written piece (calculated by views * % of non-adblock users, I guess), but thinking that there would be a commission-based or hourly-based payment system for these positions is a far-fetched dream. Besides, there are people who are passionate enough to keep this scene afloat for free - they have been for years. That's what makes the foreign BW scene so beautiful. | ||
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duke91
Germany1458 Posts
On August 13 2017 00:42 Jealous wrote: I would agree with you if these positions somehow furthered the "eSports" side of their profits, but I imagine the only money TeamLiquid makes off of BW is through ad revenue. I could understand a royalties-type payout system, such as a certain fixed % of ad revenue from your written piece (calculated by views * % of non-adblock users, I guess), but thinking that there would be a commission-based or hourly-based payment system for these positions is a far-fetched dream. Besides, there are people who are passionate enough to keep this scene afloat for free - they have been for years. That's what makes the foreign BW scene so beautiful. TL wants passionate people, but only now hires unpaid BW writers? | ||
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GeckoXp
Germany2016 Posts
On August 13 2017 07:27 duke91 wrote: TL wants passionate people, but only now hires unpaid BW writers? I really don't exactly love Teamliquid as a whole as there is plenty of room for criticism, but you have to hand it to most of the Brood War staff: If they're asked to help, they usually listen, give you advice, resources, time and then go the extra mile if you're not a total moron. The point I personally hestitate to "apply" as writer would be the strange timing of it all. There were good writers promoting good events, but for some reason it doesn't seem as if they were asked to do this officially. Things like DRTL, Nina's articles, the AI guys and some of the SBWI content comes to mind. Please take that to heart - it seems like semi leeching off people, as it seems to be the hope that original content is produced cause of passion. | ||
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duke91
Germany1458 Posts
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Jealous
10365 Posts
On August 13 2017 07:27 duke91 wrote: TL wants passionate people, but only now hires unpaid BW writers? Passionate people have always been here. The BW section gained writers throughout the years of relative drought in the scene and as far as I know, they are all unpaid. This to me seems like they are saying "Hey, plenty of people have worked on our BW section and news for years, but in order to keep up with what will likely be a much busier period than BW has seen in years, we are wondering if there are people put there who want to volunteer/replace the staff members who are aging/quitting or add on to our task force of volunteers." As I said, I do agree that perhaps some form of ad revenue sharing system would make sense, but even then I imagine that it would result in pennies. Not a livable wage by any means. Ultimately though, if volunteers exist, then why hire anyone? Simply makes no sense fiscally. As a trade off, some of the articles I read have numerous mistakes in them. That's just the nature of the system. I imagine if TL was making a ton of money off of BW and the associated hype, they would want to further their lot and investment in the market and pay people. Unfortunately, BW is not in such a gravytrain. | ||
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Jealous
10365 Posts
On August 13 2017 07:54 duke91 wrote: Not only leeching. They do it right when remastered is about to be released. Where is the passion of TL for BW? Why didn't they hired writers 1-2 years ago? Because there were not enough BW events for the staff to not be able to handle them? Why seek more volunteers if all existing tournaments are getting adequate coverage? | ||
Epoxide
Magic Woods9326 Posts
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KwarK
United States44288 Posts
On August 12 2017 23:34 Malinor wrote: 5,6 or 7 years ago I would have happily done this for free. But TL is trying so hard nowadays to be a big eSports-Hub, I cannot agree with all these "applications" for unpaid positions. When I write for tl I do it for the love of the game. It's because I have something I feel is worth writing and I want people to read it. So for me there's a mutual exchange taking place. But I only write when I feel like it, if they wanted someone to write on demand for pay then I'd not be a good candidate. | ||
BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
On August 11 2017 19:35 GeckoXp wrote: what ever happened to the ABC stuff? good question, it just stopped one day. I say blame 2pac for that!  On August 11 2017 19:36 onlystar wrote: im really against this if you take a look at what kind of ''content'' sc2 writers put out its a complete joke every tiny event or round that is done in some tourney is posted in an article its non-content. prefer people to write something interesting instead of the obvious So, what method do you think we should take to try and recruit some more staff? Also, I disagree with the rest of your post. Our BW coverage is on par with SCII writers. The only two differences are aesthetics (we have our only gfx expert) and the way we basically group up several groups all together (2 group recaps/2 group preview for example) while they typically split them. On August 11 2017 22:20 KungKras wrote: Does this mean BW news will return to the TL frontpage?  BW news has always been on the frontpage. It also largely varies depending on what is going on in the scene. At one point, we even took over 3/4 slots on the FP lol. On August 12 2017 08:36 opisska wrote: Would you share how successful these calls are? I am curious in particular about the TLPD one, it seems to me a little weird to formulate it as "open position" with a bnuch of requirements instead of a call for help. Do people actually "apply" to do annoying work for free? Don't they need to be actively talked into it? the numbers are gonna remain a secret I don't really see the point in disclosing them, much like they have never been disclosed in the past afaik. On August 12 2017 12:01 Disregard wrote: So how will the VOD archives work now especially for the Korean scene? I'm surprised the TLPD still references BW VODs I uploaded 10 years ago as a little fanboy. Those days when we had to split the VODs after grabbing torrents to upload on YT were quite tedious. Nothing is set in stone atm, still deciding how to approach TLPD with remastered around the corner On August 13 2017 07:54 duke91 wrote: Not only leeching. They do it right when remastered is about to be released. Where is the passion of TL for BW? Why didn't they hired writers 1-2 years ago? What are you talking about? We had more active staff during the Sonic era than we do now from what I recall and TL covered all the SSLs and pretty much most major offline tournaments/events since then. There was no need to hire more writers at the time because much like jealous stated below, there were enough staff to cover the big tournaments. With remastered being released soon, we are looking at the possibility of three offline tournaments (ASL/OSL/SSL). That also doesn't consider that article that got posted a while ago that SKT/KT are looking at potentially creating teams again which could mean something similar to PL. The current BW staff are great guys and have done a fantastic job with coverage but you can't possibly expect them to cover all those tournaments and leagues on top of real life obligations and I wouldn't expect them to either. On August 13 2017 08:09 Jealous wrote: Because there were not enough BW events for the staff to not be able to handle them? Why seek more volunteers if all existing tournaments are getting adequate coverage? On August 13 2017 10:52 KwarK wrote: When I write for tl I do it for the love of the game. It's because I have something I feel is worth writing and I want people to read it. So for me there's a mutual exchange taking place. But I only write when I feel like it, if they wanted someone to write on demand for pay then I'd not be a good candidate. pretty much. Also, seeing as this compensation issue seems to always come up, there have been changes in TL somewhat recently regarding this very topic. Let's just say that the writer positions aren't as 'unpaid' for as they seem. It's just that there is a trial period before someone gets staffed. Anyways, I can't really disclose the details on compensation. | ||
Peeano
Netherlands5899 Posts
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c3rberUs
Japan11776 Posts
If being staff is some subtle leeching operation, then I would have quit a long time ago. I simply won't volunteer for such an unfair activity. But I've enjoyed hanging out here, reading all sorts of craziness and drama unfold and of course I love the game (and to write about it.) To give something back (even if it isn't pretty) is my way of thanking everyone for years of priceless fun and enjoyment. | ||
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Jae Zedong
407 Posts
On August 13 2017 08:08 Jealous wrote: As a trade off, some of the articles I read have numerous mistakes in them. Makes me wonder why the writers don't cross check each other's articles for factual errors and typos. It's pretty much standard procedure in any writing field to have at least one person go over your text before it's published. If the reason is time/effort constraints, I understand. But pride should never be part of the equation. The best writers in the world always have people proofreading/checking their stuff. | ||
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Jealous
10365 Posts
On August 14 2017 00:00 Jae Zedong wrote: Makes me wonder why the writers don't cross check each other's articles for factual errors and typos. It's pretty much standard procedure in any writing field to have at least one person go over your text before it's published. If the reason is time/effort constraints, I understand. But pride should never be part of the equation. The best writers in the world always have people proofreading/checking their stuff. Agreed. That's why I work as an editor lol. It's a whole field. I think the overarching problem is that there aren't many professional writers on the TL staff, and many of the users have international origins and perhaps not the greatest command of the English written language. As a result, even if people proofread each other's articles, it's possible to simply miss mistakes you don't know are mistakes. | ||
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Jae Zedong
407 Posts
On August 14 2017 02:40 Jealous wrote: Agreed. That's why I work as an editor lol. It's a whole field. I think the overarching problem is that there aren't many professional writers on the TL staff, and many of the users have international origins and perhaps not the greatest command of the English written language. As a result, even if people proofread each other's articles, it's possible to simply miss mistakes you don't know are mistakes. For sure. Writing in a second language is friggin hard if you take it seriously. I would never trust my own English skills enough to either write or proofread in any official capacity. Just out of curiosity, are you an editor of the Russian or English language? Both? I noticed on your stream that you speak English very well. | ||
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Jealous
10365 Posts
On August 14 2017 03:39 Jae Zedong wrote: For sure. Writing in a second language is friggin hard if you take it seriously. I would never trust my own English skills enough to either write or proofread in any official capacity. Just out of curiosity, are you an editor of the Russian or English language? Both? I noticed on your stream that you speak English very well. A bit off-topic but I am Russian living in America; I used to do translations but now I mostly work in English in a domestic business, freelance, and internationally. Back on topic, even with that being said, I still make plenty of mistakes in my own writing when I don't proofread. I generally catch most of them after I read through again, but even then I would say my command is far from perfect because I have some poor lingering habits due to English not being my first language. I feel that it is essential for there to be at least one or two people to proofread newsposts. This is a rough visualization - it will definitely vary case-by-case and depending on the origins of all the various components but I wanted to keep it simple: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/TuSdSGJ.png) | ||
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hexhaven
Finland965 Posts
On August 13 2017 23:21 c3rberUs wrote: I'll disclose some compensation info. They give us cookies. Yes, we get cookies. And sometimes a glass of milk. Cookies, you say. You don't happen to have any writing positions available? | ||
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GeckoXp
Germany2016 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES51449 Posts
On August 14 2017 05:47 GeckoXp wrote: I tried writing a PM to BigFan but ended up writing what I would like to see happening to Artanis. Such is life. I thought you were joking but bigfan confirmed it. | ||
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GeckoXp
Germany2016 Posts
On August 14 2017 15:25 BLinD-RawR wrote: I thought you were joking but bigfan confirmed it. Jokes aside, I mentioned in the PM that I would maybe try TLPD again, although I get the creeps just thinking about the last time I tried. I'd try to add some of the foreign events, but for that I would need to know what's acceptable to add and what isn't. I know I've talked to someone (I guess 2pac?) about Defiler and it kind of ran dry after I realized what editing TLPD means. The core question was wether or not to add all rounds or just the top. Where do questions like that go? | ||
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