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On May 20 2017 16:34 arb wrote:
Speaking of random stuff, did anyone notice they finally renamed the Robotics Support to Robotics Support Bay? People have been calling it the wrong name for years
It was always called Robotics Support Bay in the tooltip in the build menu. It's just called Protoss Robotics Support in the main window thing because the word "Bay" doesn't fit.
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Making all movement keys unrebindable would also peserve more of the same type of skill-based mechanics
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Why do people even discuss the remapable hotkeys :D People have been remapping their hotkeys with 3rd party tools forever or by changing language.
This only makes it fair so that all of us play on equal terms.
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I threw away my F1 key, thanks Blizzard
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"To preserve competitive balance, F keys and Control Groups will still not be remappable"
this part makes no sense to me. why do they single out control groups hotkeys? what makes control group hotkeys so much more important to competitive balance than the other hotkeys?
I was hoping to change 7, 8, 9, 0 to Q, W, E, `
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that part makes no sense to you? :D lol
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On May 20 2017 19:19 onlystar wrote:
that part makes no sense to you? :D lol
in what way would remappable control groups upset the competitive balance?
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On May 20 2017 19:17 SHODAN wrote:"To preserve competitive balance, F keys and Control Groups will still not be remappable" this part makes no sense to me. why do they single out control groups hotkeys? what makes control group hotkeys so much more important to competitive balance than the other hotkeys? I was hoping to change 7, 8, 9, 0 to Q, W, E, `
the fact that you wanted to change 7 8 9 0 to closer/more accessible hotkeys doesnt tell you anything? 
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On May 20 2017 19:28 TT1 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2017 19:17 SHODAN wrote:"To preserve competitive balance, F keys and Control Groups will still not be remappable" this part makes no sense to me. why do they single out control groups hotkeys? what makes control group hotkeys so much more important to competitive balance than the other hotkeys? I was hoping to change 7, 8, 9, 0 to Q, W, E, ` the fact that you wanted to change 7 8 9 0 to closer/more accessible hotkeys doesnt tell you anything?
it tells me nothing. if every player has the option to remap control groups, then every player enjoys the same advantage.
but you seem to be under the impression that remappable control groups will favour one player over the other... spell it out for me. how would remappable control groups upset the competitive balance?
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On May 20 2017 19:34 SHODAN wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2017 19:28 TT1 wrote:On May 20 2017 19:17 SHODAN wrote:"To preserve competitive balance, F keys and Control Groups will still not be remappable" this part makes no sense to me. why do they single out control groups hotkeys? what makes control group hotkeys so much more important to competitive balance than the other hotkeys? I was hoping to change 7, 8, 9, 0 to Q, W, E, ` the fact that you wanted to change 7 8 9 0 to closer/more accessible hotkeys doesnt tell you anything? it tells me nothing. if every player has the option to remap control groups, then every player enjoys the same advantage. but you seem to be under the impression that remappable control groups will favour one player over the other... spell it out for me. how would remappable control groups upset the competitive balance?
everyone plays the same game right now as well. so you tell me, whats the problem?
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as said before remapping control roups will benifit one build /matchup MORE than the other having sk terran in mind or zerg who always has many unit groups just you can figure this out yourself the 3 races mechanics differ from each other
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On May 20 2017 19:39 TT1 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2017 19:34 SHODAN wrote:On May 20 2017 19:28 TT1 wrote:On May 20 2017 19:17 SHODAN wrote:"To preserve competitive balance, F keys and Control Groups will still not be remappable" this part makes no sense to me. why do they single out control groups hotkeys? what makes control group hotkeys so much more important to competitive balance than the other hotkeys? I was hoping to change 7, 8, 9, 0 to Q, W, E, ` the fact that you wanted to change 7 8 9 0 to closer/more accessible hotkeys doesnt tell you anything? it tells me nothing. if every player has the option to remap control groups, then every player enjoys the same advantage. but you seem to be under the impression that remappable control groups will favour one player over the other... spell it out for me. how would remappable control groups upset the competitive balance? everyone plays the same game right now as well. so you tell me, whats the problem?
this does not answer my question. the problem is this statement:
"To preserve competitive balance, F keys and Control Groups will still not be remappable"
player 1 uses traditional 'M' hotkey to build marine.
player 2 uses remapped 'A' hotkey to build marine.
player 2 has an advantage, because A is more accessible to the left hand.
player 1 uses traditional '7' hotkey for scan.
player 2 uses remapped 'Q' hotkey for scan.
player 2 has an advantage, because Q is more accessible to the left hand.
why is it OK to remap marine, but not OK to remap a control group? both have the exact same effect on competitive balance.
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edit: no ofcourse not producing a unit or casting a spell does not have the same impact on the game
as having control groups 12345/qwer because this changes how battles are won/lost in a sense races or builds that have alot of control groups get a bigger advantage witch results in upping the winning % of that race/build
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On May 20 2017 19:44 SHODAN wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2017 19:39 TT1 wrote:On May 20 2017 19:34 SHODAN wrote:On May 20 2017 19:28 TT1 wrote:On May 20 2017 19:17 SHODAN wrote:"To preserve competitive balance, F keys and Control Groups will still not be remappable" this part makes no sense to me. why do they single out control groups hotkeys? what makes control group hotkeys so much more important to competitive balance than the other hotkeys? I was hoping to change 7, 8, 9, 0 to Q, W, E, ` the fact that you wanted to change 7 8 9 0 to closer/more accessible hotkeys doesnt tell you anything? it tells me nothing. if every player has the option to remap control groups, then every player enjoys the same advantage. but you seem to be under the impression that remappable control groups will favour one player over the other... spell it out for me. how would remappable control groups upset the competitive balance? everyone plays the same game right now as well. so you tell me, whats the problem? this does not answer my question. the problem is this statement: "To preserve competitive balance, F keys and Control Groups will still not be remappable" player 1 uses traditional 'M' hotkey to build marine. player 2 uses remapped 'A' hotkey to build marine. player 2 has an advantage, because A is more accessible to the left hand. player 1 uses traditional '7' hotkey for scan. player 2 uses remapped 'Q' hotkey for scan. player 2 has an advantage, because Q is more accessible to the left hand. why is it OK to remap marine, but not OK to remap a control group? both have the exact same effect on competitive balance.
Players at the highest lvl of play have no issue producing marines or probes, unit hotkeys have no impact on actual gameplay for them (they only do at lower levels). That said there's a separation between players when it comes to f key and control group usage and that has an impact on how someone macros, micros, moves their army around the map/engages battles etc. Hotkey and Fkeys have an impact on gameplay even at the highest level (and so do hotkeys like Patrol which is why a lot of us are against having it be rebindable), unit hotkeys don't.
Being able to change unit hotkeys lowers the entry barrier for newer players without having an impact on the highest level of play. Changing f keys or control groups will have an impact on the highest level of play tho which shouldn't be allowed to happen.
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On May 20 2017 19:41 onlystar wrote:
as said before remapping control roups will benifit one build /matchup MORE than the other having sk terran in mind or zerg who always has many unit groups just you can figure this out yourself the 3 races mechanics differ from each other
"having sk terran in mind"
"zerg who always has many unit groups"
so? this is a weak argument. is there any test data which indicates that remappable control groups ruins competitive balance?
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lol ... i give up guys people fail to grasp the most simple concept of broodwar
yea totally producing units and changing spell hotkeys is exactly the same as controlling a maxed 200/200 army and wont effect balance thats why blizzard said ''to presurve balance'' thats why they re thinked the hotkey changes for SC:R you are absolutely right
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On May 20 2017 19:50 TT1 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2017 19:44 SHODAN wrote:On May 20 2017 19:39 TT1 wrote:On May 20 2017 19:34 SHODAN wrote:On May 20 2017 19:28 TT1 wrote:On May 20 2017 19:17 SHODAN wrote:"To preserve competitive balance, F keys and Control Groups will still not be remappable" this part makes no sense to me. why do they single out control groups hotkeys? what makes control group hotkeys so much more important to competitive balance than the other hotkeys? I was hoping to change 7, 8, 9, 0 to Q, W, E, ` the fact that you wanted to change 7 8 9 0 to closer/more accessible hotkeys doesnt tell you anything? it tells me nothing. if every player has the option to remap control groups, then every player enjoys the same advantage. but you seem to be under the impression that remappable control groups will favour one player over the other... spell it out for me. how would remappable control groups upset the competitive balance? everyone plays the same game right now as well. so you tell me, whats the problem? this does not answer my question. the problem is this statement: "To preserve competitive balance, F keys and Control Groups will still not be remappable" player 1 uses traditional 'M' hotkey to build marine. player 2 uses remapped 'A' hotkey to build marine. player 2 has an advantage, because A is more accessible to the left hand. player 1 uses traditional '7' hotkey for scan. player 2 uses remapped 'Q' hotkey for scan. player 2 has an advantage, because Q is more accessible to the left hand. why is it OK to remap marine, but not OK to remap a control group? both have the exact same effect on competitive balance. Players at the highest lvl of play have no issue producing marines or probes, unit hotkeys have no impact on the gameplay for them (they only do at lower levels). That said there's a separation between players when it comes to f key and control group usage and that has an impact on how someone macros, micros, engages battles etc. Hotkey and Fkeys have an impact on gameplay even at the highest level (and so do hotkeys like Patrol which is why a lot of us are against having it be rebindable), unit hotkeys don't. Being able to change unit hotkeys lowers the entry barrier for newer players without having an impact on the highest level of play. Changing f keys or control groups will have an impact on the highest level of play tho which shouldn't be allowed to happen.
sure, I understand that control / F keys would have a massive impact at the highest level of play. but impact is not the same as balance. I don't understand how the impact would benefit one race over the other.
"To preserve competitive balance" is not correct.
"To preserve traditional mechanics" is a better way of saying it...
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yea shodan very insightfull! good post
i also want you to have 12345qwer for control groups meh why they wont give u meh super lame of them
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On May 20 2017 19:59 SHODAN wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2017 19:50 TT1 wrote:On May 20 2017 19:44 SHODAN wrote:On May 20 2017 19:39 TT1 wrote:On May 20 2017 19:34 SHODAN wrote:On May 20 2017 19:28 TT1 wrote:On May 20 2017 19:17 SHODAN wrote:"To preserve competitive balance, F keys and Control Groups will still not be remappable" this part makes no sense to me. why do they single out control groups hotkeys? what makes control group hotkeys so much more important to competitive balance than the other hotkeys? I was hoping to change 7, 8, 9, 0 to Q, W, E, ` the fact that you wanted to change 7 8 9 0 to closer/more accessible hotkeys doesnt tell you anything? it tells me nothing. if every player has the option to remap control groups, then every player enjoys the same advantage. but you seem to be under the impression that remappable control groups will favour one player over the other... spell it out for me. how would remappable control groups upset the competitive balance? everyone plays the same game right now as well. so you tell me, whats the problem? this does not answer my question. the problem is this statement: "To preserve competitive balance, F keys and Control Groups will still not be remappable" player 1 uses traditional 'M' hotkey to build marine. player 2 uses remapped 'A' hotkey to build marine. player 2 has an advantage, because A is more accessible to the left hand. player 1 uses traditional '7' hotkey for scan. player 2 uses remapped 'Q' hotkey for scan. player 2 has an advantage, because Q is more accessible to the left hand. why is it OK to remap marine, but not OK to remap a control group? both have the exact same effect on competitive balance. Players at the highest lvl of play have no issue producing marines or probes, unit hotkeys have no impact on the gameplay for them (they only do at lower levels). That said there's a separation between players when it comes to f key and control group usage and that has an impact on how someone macros, micros, engages battles etc. Hotkey and Fkeys have an impact on gameplay even at the highest level (and so do hotkeys like Patrol which is why a lot of us are against having it be rebindable), unit hotkeys don't. Being able to change unit hotkeys lowers the entry barrier for newer players without having an impact on the highest level of play. Changing f keys or control groups will have an impact on the highest level of play tho which shouldn't be allowed to happen. sure, I understand that control / F keys would have a massive impact at the highest level of play. but impact is not the same as balance. I don't understand how the impact would benefit one race over the other. "To preserve competitive balance" is not correct. "To preserve traditional mechanics" is a better way of saying it...
Well now we're arguing over a word but i agree with you, it's basically to maintain the difficulty level of the game (via keyboard mechanics) in order to have separation between players even at the highest level. "To preserve traditional mechanics" is a better way of phrasing it.
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On May 20 2017 19:59 SHODAN wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2017 19:50 TT1 wrote:On May 20 2017 19:44 SHODAN wrote:On May 20 2017 19:39 TT1 wrote:On May 20 2017 19:34 SHODAN wrote:On May 20 2017 19:28 TT1 wrote:On May 20 2017 19:17 SHODAN wrote:"To preserve competitive balance, F keys and Control Groups will still not be remappable" this part makes no sense to me. why do they single out control groups hotkeys? what makes control group hotkeys so much more important to competitive balance than the other hotkeys? I was hoping to change 7, 8, 9, 0 to Q, W, E, ` the fact that you wanted to change 7 8 9 0 to closer/more accessible hotkeys doesnt tell you anything? it tells me nothing. if every player has the option to remap control groups, then every player enjoys the same advantage. but you seem to be under the impression that remappable control groups will favour one player over the other... spell it out for me. how would remappable control groups upset the competitive balance? everyone plays the same game right now as well. so you tell me, whats the problem? this does not answer my question. the problem is this statement: "To preserve competitive balance, F keys and Control Groups will still not be remappable" player 1 uses traditional 'M' hotkey to build marine. player 2 uses remapped 'A' hotkey to build marine. player 2 has an advantage, because A is more accessible to the left hand. player 1 uses traditional '7' hotkey for scan. player 2 uses remapped 'Q' hotkey for scan. player 2 has an advantage, because Q is more accessible to the left hand. why is it OK to remap marine, but not OK to remap a control group? both have the exact same effect on competitive balance. Players at the highest lvl of play have no issue producing marines or probes, unit hotkeys have no impact on the gameplay for them (they only do at lower levels). That said there's a separation between players when it comes to f key and control group usage and that has an impact on how someone macros, micros, engages battles etc. Hotkey and Fkeys have an impact on gameplay even at the highest level (and so do hotkeys like Patrol which is why a lot of us are against having it be rebindable), unit hotkeys don't. Being able to change unit hotkeys lowers the entry barrier for newer players without having an impact on the highest level of play. Changing f keys or control groups will have an impact on the highest level of play tho which shouldn't be allowed to happen. sure, I understand that control / F keys would have a massive impact at the highest level of play. but impact is not the same as balance. I don't understand how the impact would benefit one race over the other. "To preserve competitive balance" is not correct. "To preserve traditional mechanics" is a better way of saying it...
one of the many examples of balance change:
late game maxed zergs have more units that they can hotkey, while protoss has like 6. if zergs are able to rebind them, it'll make fights easier to manage for zergs.
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EPT
