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You need verification on endymions post?
Just use youre brain any bw player who played competitively can understand this
Thx endymion for spitting the truth
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On May 11 2017 17:52 Endymion wrote:
1.18 is already hated enough as is in korea for splitting fish and the ASL drama while being inferior to 1.16, if they add rebindable hotkeys it'll just be even more dead... the thing is, korea doesn't need or want "QOL" adjustments for d- players that think it's hard to hit o for overlord.. they also don't need or want input issues or a new dependency on blizzard for servers/updates when sc2 is still plagued with maphack and bnet .20. 1.18 is a charade given that we have a perfect game already in 1.16, a game that has been available for free for the past like 15+ years..
and yes, hotkeys do affect balance, how can you even argue that decreasing the mechanical difficulty of a game so dependent on mechanical proficiency wouldn't affect balance? maybe a new hotkey setup for terran would make them easy as hell to play? for instance, having all of your control groups on 1234qwert, maybe controlling 9 control groups of bio would be retardedly easy to play, making skterran the dominant build? or zerg, which routinely use all 9 control groups and vision hot keys? it's not a QOL 'improvement', it's a fundamental change to the game which is why it has been banned from ladders for those 15 years+ that 1.16 has been free..
You think rebinding hotkeys is all of a sudden going to make a player macro better? Common man it won't effect balance at all. Timings are going to be the exact same, macro is going to be the exact thing.
Now if they increased selection limit or added MBS you have a good argument. But putting overlord to V or putting a muta to T is not going to change anything at all.
I would bet money that changing hotkeys wouldn't effect the game at all in terms of balance or builds.
On May 11 2017 19:40 onlystar wrote:
You need verification on endymions post?
Just use youre brain any bw player who played competitively can understand this
Thx endymion for spitting the truth
I used to play BW competitively and no you are wrong lol.
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Hitting "o" for m[i]nes and "i" for siege m[o]de happened pretty often with me, just to come up with an example, back in the days I really wished for some workaround, but I got used to it, or at least kind of. 
I`d argue with Endymion`s opinion that remapping keys wouldn`t make current trends topsy-turvy, but It`d surely affect things to a certain degree, I`m pretty positive about that.
As for the 1.18 and Remastered games what direction will take, I couldn`t care less, but it makes me angry that our tiny scene is tearing apart because all of this shit.
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On May 11 2017 22:38 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2017 17:52 Endymion wrote:
1.18 is already hated enough as is in korea for splitting fish and the ASL drama while being inferior to 1.16, if they add rebindable hotkeys it'll just be even more dead... the thing is, korea doesn't need or want "QOL" adjustments for d- players that think it's hard to hit o for overlord.. they also don't need or want input issues or a new dependency on blizzard for servers/updates when sc2 is still plagued with maphack and bnet .20. 1.18 is a charade given that we have a perfect game already in 1.16, a game that has been available for free for the past like 15+ years..
and yes, hotkeys do affect balance, how can you even argue that decreasing the mechanical difficulty of a game so dependent on mechanical proficiency wouldn't affect balance? maybe a new hotkey setup for terran would make them easy as hell to play? for instance, having all of your control groups on 1234qwert, maybe controlling 9 control groups of bio would be retardedly easy to play, making skterran the dominant build? or zerg, which routinely use all 9 control groups and vision hot keys? it's not a QOL 'improvement', it's a fundamental change to the game which is why it has been banned from ladders for those 15 years+ that 1.16 has been free.. You think rebinding hotkeys is all of a sudden going to make a player macro better? Common man it won't effect balance at all. Timings are going to be the exact same, macro is going to be the exact thing. Now if they increased selection limit or added MBS you have a good argument. But putting overlord to V or putting a muta to T is not going to change anything at all. I would bet money that changing hotkeys wouldn't effect the game at all in terms of balance or builds. Show nested quote +On May 11 2017 19:40 onlystar wrote:
You need verification on endymions post?
Just use youre brain any bw player who played competitively can understand this
Thx endymion for spitting the truth I used to play BW competitively and no you are wrong lol.
Facts: Hotkey rebinding is inevitably coming. It reduces the menial task of reaching across keyboard for certain commands. It will help those who are new at the game and those who are poor with typing (albeit marginally).
And to reply to Endymion: the premise that because hotkey remapping been banned for 15+ years therefore it is a fundamental change is incorrect. It was banned because it required manipulation of the game/code. Now they will be implementing it.
Analysis: Hotkey rebinding will not make the game any better or worse. It will not affect balance, because it is an external factor, not within the game. Bads will be bad regardless of this upcoming addition.
In the game of BW, you either know what you're doing, or you don't. It's not a matter of how efficiently you can make press a button to send a command, it's knowing which commands to make. lol @ SK terran style will be dominant if you can remap to 1234qwert. Enough berating - Get some experience with playing games and you will learn that hotkey remapping is strictly for preference, it won't improve in-game skill. Pro's know what they're doing and can execute just fine. Not being good with hotkeys is no excuse for skill barrier.
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It's safe to assume hotkey rebinding makes micro intensive strategies a little more feasible. I wish they'd ban the topic of hotkey rebinding too many people are ignorant about it's unimportance.
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On May 12 2017 01:10 Demurity wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2017 22:38 blade55555 wrote:On May 11 2017 17:52 Endymion wrote:
1.18 is already hated enough as is in korea for splitting fish and the ASL drama while being inferior to 1.16, if they add rebindable hotkeys it'll just be even more dead... the thing is, korea doesn't need or want "QOL" adjustments for d- players that think it's hard to hit o for overlord.. they also don't need or want input issues or a new dependency on blizzard for servers/updates when sc2 is still plagued with maphack and bnet .20. 1.18 is a charade given that we have a perfect game already in 1.16, a game that has been available for free for the past like 15+ years..
and yes, hotkeys do affect balance, how can you even argue that decreasing the mechanical difficulty of a game so dependent on mechanical proficiency wouldn't affect balance? maybe a new hotkey setup for terran would make them easy as hell to play? for instance, having all of your control groups on 1234qwert, maybe controlling 9 control groups of bio would be retardedly easy to play, making skterran the dominant build? or zerg, which routinely use all 9 control groups and vision hot keys? it's not a QOL 'improvement', it's a fundamental change to the game which is why it has been banned from ladders for those 15 years+ that 1.16 has been free.. You think rebinding hotkeys is all of a sudden going to make a player macro better? Common man it won't effect balance at all. Timings are going to be the exact same, macro is going to be the exact thing. Now if they increased selection limit or added MBS you have a good argument. But putting overlord to V or putting a muta to T is not going to change anything at all. I would bet money that changing hotkeys wouldn't effect the game at all in terms of balance or builds. On May 11 2017 19:40 onlystar wrote:
You need verification on endymions post?
Just use youre brain any bw player who played competitively can understand this
Thx endymion for spitting the truth I used to play BW competitively and no you are wrong lol. Facts: Hotkey rebinding is inevitably coming. It reduces the menial task of reaching across keyboard for certain commands. It will help those who are new at the game and those who are poor with typing (albeit marginally). And to reply to Endymion: the premise that because hotkey remapping been banned for 15+ years therefore it is a fundamental change is incorrect. It was banned because it required manipulation of the game/code. Now they will be implementing it. Analysis: Hotkey rebinding will not make the game any better or worse. It will not affect balance, because it is an external factor, not within the game. Bads will be bad regardless of this upcoming addition. In the game of BW, you either know what you're doing, or you don't. It's not a matter of how efficiently you can make press a button to send a command, it's knowing which commands to make. lol @ SK terran style will be dominant if you can remap to 1234qwert. Enough berating - Get some experience with playing games and you will learn that hotkey remapping is strictly for preference, it won't improve in-game skill. Pro's know what they're doing and can execute just fine. Not being good with hotkeys is no excuse for skill barrier.
no, no and no korea will not accept a patch like this you dont get this by now?
the post is contradicting yourself mate, read it again 
edit LOL...mediocore foreigners displaying their ''knowlegde'' about balance hotkeys and gamedynamics in this topic got to love foreigners scene <3
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On May 12 2017 01:40 onlystar wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2017 01:10 Demurity wrote:On May 11 2017 22:38 blade55555 wrote:On May 11 2017 17:52 Endymion wrote:
1.18 is already hated enough as is in korea for splitting fish and the ASL drama while being inferior to 1.16, if they add rebindable hotkeys it'll just be even more dead... the thing is, korea doesn't need or want "QOL" adjustments for d- players that think it's hard to hit o for overlord.. they also don't need or want input issues or a new dependency on blizzard for servers/updates when sc2 is still plagued with maphack and bnet .20. 1.18 is a charade given that we have a perfect game already in 1.16, a game that has been available for free for the past like 15+ years..
and yes, hotkeys do affect balance, how can you even argue that decreasing the mechanical difficulty of a game so dependent on mechanical proficiency wouldn't affect balance? maybe a new hotkey setup for terran would make them easy as hell to play? for instance, having all of your control groups on 1234qwert, maybe controlling 9 control groups of bio would be retardedly easy to play, making skterran the dominant build? or zerg, which routinely use all 9 control groups and vision hot keys? it's not a QOL 'improvement', it's a fundamental change to the game which is why it has been banned from ladders for those 15 years+ that 1.16 has been free.. You think rebinding hotkeys is all of a sudden going to make a player macro better? Common man it won't effect balance at all. Timings are going to be the exact same, macro is going to be the exact thing. Now if they increased selection limit or added MBS you have a good argument. But putting overlord to V or putting a muta to T is not going to change anything at all. I would bet money that changing hotkeys wouldn't effect the game at all in terms of balance or builds. On May 11 2017 19:40 onlystar wrote:
You need verification on endymions post?
Just use youre brain any bw player who played competitively can understand this
Thx endymion for spitting the truth I used to play BW competitively and no you are wrong lol. Facts: Hotkey rebinding is inevitably coming. It reduces the menial task of reaching across keyboard for certain commands. It will help those who are new at the game and those who are poor with typing (albeit marginally). And to reply to Endymion: the premise that because hotkey remapping been banned for 15+ years therefore it is a fundamental change is incorrect. It was banned because it required manipulation of the game/code. Now they will be implementing it. Analysis: Hotkey rebinding will not make the game any better or worse. It will not affect balance, because it is an external factor, not within the game. Bads will be bad regardless of this upcoming addition. In the game of BW, you either know what you're doing, or you don't. It's not a matter of how efficiently you can make press a button to send a command, it's knowing which commands to make. lol @ SK terran style will be dominant if you can remap to 1234qwert. Enough berating - Get some experience with playing games and you will learn that hotkey remapping is strictly for preference, it won't improve in-game skill. Pro's know what they're doing and can execute just fine. Not being good with hotkeys is no excuse for skill barrier. no, no and no korea will not accept a patch like this you dont get this by now? the post is contradicting yourself mate, read it again edit LOL...mediocore foreigners displaying their ''knowlegde'' about balance hotkeys and gamedynamics in this topic got to love foreigners scene <3
Blizz said hotkey remapping is in development, so yes, it is coming. Saying no no no doesn't keep the scary monsters under your bed from coming out at night. Hotkey remapping is a move on mentality. Koreans are prideful of the fact that they grind enough to get good at hotkeys as they are. Foreigners want things to be easier. It's a tug of war.
There is no contradiction. Don't just scoff and be condescending without making a point. There is a distinct differentiation between "these two keys are closer together" and "these two keys being closer together breaks the game". Don't conflate the two.
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ultimately blizzard can devolp something they are bound on acceptance of the korean scene/pro scene that is in place right now (remapping hotkeys will not be accepted in korean pro scene) they know this you did not no big deal now u know
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On May 12 2017 01:10 Demurity wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2017 22:38 blade55555 wrote:On May 11 2017 17:52 Endymion wrote:
1.18 is already hated enough as is in korea for splitting fish and the ASL drama while being inferior to 1.16, if they add rebindable hotkeys it'll just be even more dead... the thing is, korea doesn't need or want "QOL" adjustments for d- players that think it's hard to hit o for overlord.. they also don't need or want input issues or a new dependency on blizzard for servers/updates when sc2 is still plagued with maphack and bnet .20. 1.18 is a charade given that we have a perfect game already in 1.16, a game that has been available for free for the past like 15+ years..
and yes, hotkeys do affect balance, how can you even argue that decreasing the mechanical difficulty of a game so dependent on mechanical proficiency wouldn't affect balance? maybe a new hotkey setup for terran would make them easy as hell to play? for instance, having all of your control groups on 1234qwert, maybe controlling 9 control groups of bio would be retardedly easy to play, making skterran the dominant build? or zerg, which routinely use all 9 control groups and vision hot keys? it's not a QOL 'improvement', it's a fundamental change to the game which is why it has been banned from ladders for those 15 years+ that 1.16 has been free.. You think rebinding hotkeys is all of a sudden going to make a player macro better? Common man it won't effect balance at all. Timings are going to be the exact same, macro is going to be the exact thing. Now if they increased selection limit or added MBS you have a good argument. But putting overlord to V or putting a muta to T is not going to change anything at all. I would bet money that changing hotkeys wouldn't effect the game at all in terms of balance or builds. On May 11 2017 19:40 onlystar wrote:
You need verification on endymions post?
Just use youre brain any bw player who played competitively can understand this
Thx endymion for spitting the truth I used to play BW competitively and no you are wrong lol. Facts: Hotkey rebinding is inevitably coming. I And to reply to Endymion: the premise that because hotkey remapping been banned for 15+ years therefore it is a fundamental change is incorrect. It was banned because it required manipulation of the game/code. Now they will be implementing it. Analysis: Hotkey rebinding will not make the game any better or worse. It will not affect balance, because it is an external factor, not within the game. Bads will be bad regardless of this upcoming addition. In the game of BW, you either know what you're doing, or you don't. It's not a matter of how efficiently you can make press a button to send a command, it's knowing which commands to make. lol @ SK terran style will be dominant if you can remap to 1234qwert. Enough berating - Get some experience with playing games and you will learn that hotkey remapping is strictly for preference, it won't improve in-game skill. Pro's know what they're doing and can execute just fine. Not being good with hotkeys is no excuse for skill barrier.
okay at first your saying ''it reduces the menial task of reaching across keyboard for certain commands. It will help those who are new at the game and those who are poor with typing (albeit marginally).''
than in contradictionairy your saying ''It will not affect balance, because it is an external factor, not within the game. Bads will be bad regardless of this upcoming addition. ''
so.. lol youre saying it will be easier to hotkey stuff for people that are bad at mechanicall play.. there you have it it lowers the skill ceiling for mechanical play keyboard/handspeed. where you get youre logic is beyond me.
as said and ill explain it to you again since you're too ignorant to understand it from endymions post:
if you can hotkey 12345/qwert to unitgroups zerg have an incredible boost in their 200/200 attacks since it is so much easier(and in most cases faster and takes less stamina from the finger/hands)to make a perfect surround/timing with 200/200. same goes for the SKT-terran style it does effect the game DIRECTLY it can not be denied ALL pro-gamers will give you this explanation go ask scan.
again mechanical is almost 50% of the skill in BW are you playing sc2 or something where u get this stuff from?
hotkey remapping will effect how the races perform across the board.
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I fail to understand how key rebinding would not be accepted by pros. Like, I could understand if it meant you get new vision hotkeys or more ctrl groups or something that would actually affect macro, but otherwise wouldn't this help a lot of pros with their RSI / Carpal Tunnel potentially? There is no other competitive game in the world this resistant to interface change of this sort for its own sake. I'm not talking about stuff that obviously doees like MBS, but just key rebinding should probably be allowed.
Like for example, if someone wanted to use an AZERTY keyboard instead of QWERTY is that banned by KeSPA? What if it's technically a QWERTY keyboard but with all the non-useful keys for a given race removed? That's legal, right? Now what if someone manufactured a keyboard like that from the factory? What if they did so but they made all the non-relevant keys really small, so that the important keys are larger and closer together?
The moral of the story is the reasoning and logic for the this stuff is ridiculous or riddled with fallacies and potential for abuse. But the real point is that obviously it doesn't affect the competitive nature of the game because 99.9999% of being good at Brood War is mental and/or involving sequencing of actions.
Frankly there's many good reasons to not like 1.18 in its current form, but eventually Blizzard's devs work will pay off and they will happen upon a stable build that has all the features and performance anyone could want and that is virtually indistinguishable from 1.16.1 in pure gameplay. At that point the question of which non-gameplay features people care about does need to be addressed. Until then I hope they fix the performance and command recognition issues that are plaguing current builds.
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Onlystar, I honestly don't think being able to rebind keys would so significantly change the sped of execution of players at the top level. The only reason we even want this feature is because of people with very small/large hands and for whom reaching across the keys is physically stressful / taxing. Sure you could argue this is part of the game, but then you sound like the idiots who argue that playing American football is just fine and that no brain damage is done from head collisions. This more has to do with the physical stress on the wrist and hands and the potential nerve damage / lack of comfort of some of the stretches necessary to play the game. Somehow I don't think have 1-5 and q-t wouild actually be any faster than than 1-10, it's just more stressful/damaging to the hands for no reason.
And that doesn't even get in to the slippery slope arguments of what kind of keyboards KeSPA accepts. If someone were to design a keyboard with uneven sized keys, or with a slightly different than normal shape for example, specifically for SCBW, would they ban that? What about a smaller-than-normal keyboard? Would that be banned possibly for giving an advantage?
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On May 12 2017 05:10 SirKibbleX wrote:
I fail to understand how key rebinding would not be accepted by pros. Like, I could understand if it meant you get new vision hotkeys or more ctrl groups or something that would actually affect macro, but otherwise wouldn't this help a lot of pros with their RSI / Carpal Tunnel potentially? There is no other competitive game in the world this resistant to interface change of this sort for its own sake. I'm not talking about stuff that obviously doees like MBS, but just key rebinding should probably be allowed.
Like for example, if someone wanted to use an AZERTY keyboard instead of QWERTY is that banned by KeSPA? What if it's technically a QWERTY keyboard but with all the non-useful keys for a given race removed? That's legal, right? Now what if someone manufactured a keyboard like that from the factory? What if they did so but they made all the non-relevant keys really small, so that the important keys are larger and closer together?
The moral of the story is the reasoning and logic for the this stuff is ridiculous or riddled with fallacies and potential for abuse. But the real point is that obviously it doesn't affect the competitive nature of the game because 99.9999% of being good at Brood War is mental and/or involving sequencing of actions.
Frankly there's many good reasons to not like 1.18 in its current form, but eventually Blizzard's devs work will pay off and they will happen upon a stable build that has all the features and performance anyone could want and that is virtually indistinguishable from 1.16.1 in pure gameplay. At that point the question of which non-gameplay features people care about does need to be addressed. Until then I hope they fix the performance and command recognition issues that are plaguing current builds.
''But the real point is that obviously it doesn't affect the competitive nature of the game because 99.9999% of being good at Brood War is mental and/or involving sequencing of actions.''
this is untrue having top tier mechanics will determine for 50% maybe 70% how good you are at terran for example,
along with knowing the right timings factories when to expo right counters knowing what youre opponent is doing game sense etc and as you're saying mental/strategic/swquencing of actions
edit: ill try to explain it more basically lowering the skill ceiling on mechanical play has an effect on one race more than the other, one of the hardest things in BW is to time (hotkey mechanics) a perfect attack with a maxed out zerg (timing in a sense that all the units will arrive/attack/surround at the front of the battlefield at the same time and not like its gets there in smaller chunks of groups if that makes sense. its so apm intensive so mechanically demanding you are changing the requirements for one to have these top tier mechanics and changing the apm/hand/finger intensity the player needs to exacute this.
so obviously this will have an impact on how zergs (maxed out battles) will span out >is a direct effect ingame.
SKT-terran maybe some one else can explain that better its as said one of the highest APM/mechanic intensitive builds
and will be played better across the board because this build is so mechanical demanding and we lowered the skill ceiling for this build. (the build was almost never played ''flawlessly'' on pro-level) it will be played better across all skill levels after allowing hotkey remapping.
so there.. mechanics are an incredibly important part of BW that is why..
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On May 12 2017 04:36 Demurity wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2017 01:40 onlystar wrote:On May 12 2017 01:10 Demurity wrote:On May 11 2017 22:38 blade55555 wrote:On May 11 2017 17:52 Endymion wrote:
1.18 is already hated enough as is in korea for splitting fish and the ASL drama while being inferior to 1.16, if they add rebindable hotkeys it'll just be even more dead... the thing is, korea doesn't need or want "QOL" adjustments for d- players that think it's hard to hit o for overlord.. they also don't need or want input issues or a new dependency on blizzard for servers/updates when sc2 is still plagued with maphack and bnet .20. 1.18 is a charade given that we have a perfect game already in 1.16, a game that has been available for free for the past like 15+ years..
and yes, hotkeys do affect balance, how can you even argue that decreasing the mechanical difficulty of a game so dependent on mechanical proficiency wouldn't affect balance? maybe a new hotkey setup for terran would make them easy as hell to play? for instance, having all of your control groups on 1234qwert, maybe controlling 9 control groups of bio would be retardedly easy to play, making skterran the dominant build? or zerg, which routinely use all 9 control groups and vision hot keys? it's not a QOL 'improvement', it's a fundamental change to the game which is why it has been banned from ladders for those 15 years+ that 1.16 has been free.. You think rebinding hotkeys is all of a sudden going to make a player macro better? Common man it won't effect balance at all. Timings are going to be the exact same, macro is going to be the exact thing. Now if they increased selection limit or added MBS you have a good argument. But putting overlord to V or putting a muta to T is not going to change anything at all. I would bet money that changing hotkeys wouldn't effect the game at all in terms of balance or builds. On May 11 2017 19:40 onlystar wrote:
You need verification on endymions post?
Just use youre brain any bw player who played competitively can understand this
Thx endymion for spitting the truth I used to play BW competitively and no you are wrong lol. Facts: Hotkey rebinding is inevitably coming. It reduces the menial task of reaching across keyboard for certain commands. It will help those who are new at the game and those who are poor with typing (albeit marginally). And to reply to Endymion: the premise that because hotkey remapping been banned for 15+ years therefore it is a fundamental change is incorrect. It was banned because it required manipulation of the game/code. Now they will be implementing it. Analysis: Hotkey rebinding will not make the game any better or worse. It will not affect balance, because it is an external factor, not within the game. Bads will be bad regardless of this upcoming addition. In the game of BW, you either know what you're doing, or you don't. It's not a matter of how efficiently you can make press a button to send a command, it's knowing which commands to make. lol @ SK terran style will be dominant if you can remap to 1234qwert. Enough berating - Get some experience with playing games and you will learn that hotkey remapping is strictly for preference, it won't improve in-game skill. Pro's know what they're doing and can execute just fine. Not being good with hotkeys is no excuse for skill barrier. no, no and no korea will not accept a patch like this you dont get this by now? the post is contradicting yourself mate, read it again edit LOL...mediocore foreigners displaying their ''knowlegde'' about balance hotkeys and gamedynamics in this topic got to love foreigners scene <3 Blizz said hotkey remapping is in development, so yes, it is coming. Saying no no no doesn't keep the scary monsters under your bed from coming out at night. Hotkey remapping is a move on mentality. Koreans are prideful of the fact that they grind enough to get good at hotkeys as they are. Foreigners want things to be easier. It's a tug of war. There is no contradiction. Don't just scoff and be condescending without making a point. There is a distinct differentiation between "these two keys are closer together" and "these two keys being closer together breaks the game". Don't conflate the two.
You asked koreans? I've yet to hear a korean say they dislike the change. Seems to be mostly western elitists who dislike it. I could be wrong though.
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I am really enjoying 1.18++ , the feel of the game is much smoother and feels just better overall, for some reason.
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On May 12 2017 01:40 onlystar wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2017 01:10 Demurity wrote:On May 11 2017 22:38 blade55555 wrote:On May 11 2017 17:52 Endymion wrote:
1.18 is already hated enough as is in korea for splitting fish and the ASL drama while being inferior to 1.16, if they add rebindable hotkeys it'll just be even more dead... the thing is, korea doesn't need or want "QOL" adjustments for d- players that think it's hard to hit o for overlord.. they also don't need or want input issues or a new dependency on blizzard for servers/updates when sc2 is still plagued with maphack and bnet .20. 1.18 is a charade given that we have a perfect game already in 1.16, a game that has been available for free for the past like 15+ years..
and yes, hotkeys do affect balance, how can you even argue that decreasing the mechanical difficulty of a game so dependent on mechanical proficiency wouldn't affect balance? maybe a new hotkey setup for terran would make them easy as hell to play? for instance, having all of your control groups on 1234qwert, maybe controlling 9 control groups of bio would be retardedly easy to play, making skterran the dominant build? or zerg, which routinely use all 9 control groups and vision hot keys? it's not a QOL 'improvement', it's a fundamental change to the game which is why it has been banned from ladders for those 15 years+ that 1.16 has been free.. You think rebinding hotkeys is all of a sudden going to make a player macro better? Common man it won't effect balance at all. Timings are going to be the exact same, macro is going to be the exact thing. Now if they increased selection limit or added MBS you have a good argument. But putting overlord to V or putting a muta to T is not going to change anything at all. I would bet money that changing hotkeys wouldn't effect the game at all in terms of balance or builds. On May 11 2017 19:40 onlystar wrote:
You need verification on endymions post?
Just use youre brain any bw player who played competitively can understand this
Thx endymion for spitting the truth I used to play BW competitively and no you are wrong lol. Facts: Hotkey rebinding is inevitably coming. It reduces the menial task of reaching across keyboard for certain commands. It will help those who are new at the game and those who are poor with typing (albeit marginally). And to reply to Endymion: the premise that because hotkey remapping been banned for 15+ years therefore it is a fundamental change is incorrect. It was banned because it required manipulation of the game/code. Now they will be implementing it. Analysis: Hotkey rebinding will not make the game any better or worse. It will not affect balance, because it is an external factor, not within the game. Bads will be bad regardless of this upcoming addition. In the game of BW, you either know what you're doing, or you don't. It's not a matter of how efficiently you can make press a button to send a command, it's knowing which commands to make. lol @ SK terran style will be dominant if you can remap to 1234qwert. Enough berating - Get some experience with playing games and you will learn that hotkey remapping is strictly for preference, it won't improve in-game skill. Pro's know what they're doing and can execute just fine. Not being good with hotkeys is no excuse for skill barrier. no, no and no korea will not accept a patch like this you dont get this by now? the post is contradicting yourself mate, read it again edit LOL...mediocore foreigners displaying their ''knowlegde'' about balance hotkeys and gamedynamics in this topic got to love foreigners scene <3
Except some pro gamers have said that SC should get with the 21st century already and implement custom hot keys. It's very low on their priority list of desiderata because they think it won't affect them all that much (already too used to current keys and current pool of amateurs are too far behind in skill to narrow the gap), but it will help beginners.
Korea is not some monolithic entity with a single opinion. Also, you are talking about knowledge at a level that no one possesses. Everyone is free to speculate on such things, even "mediocre foreigners". If you're too high and mighty for the opinions of "mediocre foreigners", I invite you to explore the cesspool that is YGosu, where the sagacious Koreans let the shitposts flow as if they were diarrhea.
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On May 12 2017 01:40 onlystar wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2017 01:10 Demurity wrote:On May 11 2017 22:38 blade55555 wrote:On May 11 2017 17:52 Endymion wrote:
1.18 is already hated enough as is in korea for splitting fish and the ASL drama while being inferior to 1.16, if they add rebindable hotkeys it'll just be even more dead... the thing is, korea doesn't need or want "QOL" adjustments for d- players that think it's hard to hit o for overlord.. they also don't need or want input issues or a new dependency on blizzard for servers/updates when sc2 is still plagued with maphack and bnet .20. 1.18 is a charade given that we have a perfect game already in 1.16, a game that has been available for free for the past like 15+ years..
and yes, hotkeys do affect balance, how can you even argue that decreasing the mechanical difficulty of a game so dependent on mechanical proficiency wouldn't affect balance? maybe a new hotkey setup for terran would make them easy as hell to play? for instance, having all of your control groups on 1234qwert, maybe controlling 9 control groups of bio would be retardedly easy to play, making skterran the dominant build? or zerg, which routinely use all 9 control groups and vision hot keys? it's not a QOL 'improvement', it's a fundamental change to the game which is why it has been banned from ladders for those 15 years+ that 1.16 has been free.. You think rebinding hotkeys is all of a sudden going to make a player macro better? Common man it won't effect balance at all. Timings are going to be the exact same, macro is going to be the exact thing. Now if they increased selection limit or added MBS you have a good argument. But putting overlord to V or putting a muta to T is not going to change anything at all. I would bet money that changing hotkeys wouldn't effect the game at all in terms of balance or builds. On May 11 2017 19:40 onlystar wrote:
You need verification on endymions post?
Just use youre brain any bw player who played competitively can understand this
Thx endymion for spitting the truth I used to play BW competitively and no you are wrong lol. Facts: Hotkey rebinding is inevitably coming. It reduces the menial task of reaching across keyboard for certain commands. It will help those who are new at the game and those who are poor with typing (albeit marginally). And to reply to Endymion: the premise that because hotkey remapping been banned for 15+ years therefore it is a fundamental change is incorrect. It was banned because it required manipulation of the game/code. Now they will be implementing it. Analysis: Hotkey rebinding will not make the game any better or worse. It will not affect balance, because it is an external factor, not within the game. Bads will be bad regardless of this upcoming addition. In the game of BW, you either know what you're doing, or you don't. It's not a matter of how efficiently you can make press a button to send a command, it's knowing which commands to make. lol @ SK terran style will be dominant if you can remap to 1234qwert. Enough berating - Get some experience with playing games and you will learn that hotkey remapping is strictly for preference, it won't improve in-game skill. Pro's know what they're doing and can execute just fine. Not being good with hotkeys is no excuse for skill barrier. no, no and no korea will not accept a patch like this you dont get this by now? the post is contradicting yourself mate, read it again edit LOL...mediocore foreigners displaying their ''knowlegde'' about balance hotkeys and gamedynamics in this topic got to love foreigners scene <3 Korea already has accepted the patch, and the notion of hotkey rebinding. Sorry.
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The game "changes" are at the hands of Flash, Bisu and Jaedong. Who are we to even speak when gods are taking charge? :-)
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On May 12 2017 01:40 onlystar wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2017 01:10 Demurity wrote:On May 11 2017 22:38 blade55555 wrote:On May 11 2017 17:52 Endymion wrote:
1.18 is already hated enough as is in korea for splitting fish and the ASL drama while being inferior to 1.16, if they add rebindable hotkeys it'll just be even more dead... the thing is, korea doesn't need or want "QOL" adjustments for d- players that think it's hard to hit o for overlord.. they also don't need or want input issues or a new dependency on blizzard for servers/updates when sc2 is still plagued with maphack and bnet .20. 1.18 is a charade given that we have a perfect game already in 1.16, a game that has been available for free for the past like 15+ years..
and yes, hotkeys do affect balance, how can you even argue that decreasing the mechanical difficulty of a game so dependent on mechanical proficiency wouldn't affect balance? maybe a new hotkey setup for terran would make them easy as hell to play? for instance, having all of your control groups on 1234qwert, maybe controlling 9 control groups of bio would be retardedly easy to play, making skterran the dominant build? or zerg, which routinely use all 9 control groups and vision hot keys? it's not a QOL 'improvement', it's a fundamental change to the game which is why it has been banned from ladders for those 15 years+ that 1.16 has been free.. You think rebinding hotkeys is all of a sudden going to make a player macro better? Common man it won't effect balance at all. Timings are going to be the exact same, macro is going to be the exact thing. Now if they increased selection limit or added MBS you have a good argument. But putting overlord to V or putting a muta to T is not going to change anything at all. I would bet money that changing hotkeys wouldn't effect the game at all in terms of balance or builds. On May 11 2017 19:40 onlystar wrote:
You need verification on endymions post?
Just use youre brain any bw player who played competitively can understand this
Thx endymion for spitting the truth I used to play BW competitively and no you are wrong lol. Facts: Hotkey rebinding is inevitably coming. It reduces the menial task of reaching across keyboard for certain commands. It will help those who are new at the game and those who are poor with typing (albeit marginally). And to reply to Endymion: the premise that because hotkey remapping been banned for 15+ years therefore it is a fundamental change is incorrect. It was banned because it required manipulation of the game/code. Now they will be implementing it. Analysis: Hotkey rebinding will not make the game any better or worse. It will not affect balance, because it is an external factor, not within the game. Bads will be bad regardless of this upcoming addition. In the game of BW, you either know what you're doing, or you don't. It's not a matter of how efficiently you can make press a button to send a command, it's knowing which commands to make. lol @ SK terran style will be dominant if you can remap to 1234qwert. Enough berating - Get some experience with playing games and you will learn that hotkey remapping is strictly for preference, it won't improve in-game skill. Pro's know what they're doing and can execute just fine. Not being good with hotkeys is no excuse for skill barrier. no, no and no korea will not accept a patch like this you dont get this by now? the post is contradicting yourself mate, read it again edit LOL...mediocore foreigners displaying their ''knowlegde'' about balance hotkeys and gamedynamics in this topic got to love foreigners scene <3
Aaaand the most arrogant post in the thread goes to...
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the problem is all you think understanding what korea wants after the one or two koreans said it to you.
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On May 11 2017 06:02 erin[go]bragh wrote:
Can someone explain to me why custom hotkeys would effect balance at all? If you're able to type without looking at your keyboard it seems you're unaffected by this kind of thing. And while things like the 12 unit selection limit were conscious balance decisions, as far as I know this is not how they chose hotkeys. Marine starts with M, so their hotkey is "M." Medic is C because M was taken by Marine. I don't think they made the hotkey for lings "Z" because they thought it would be more balanced to give zergs that kind of hotkey closer to their resting position.
I mean would anyone think they lost a ZvZ because their opponent cheated by pressing V for their Overlords instead of O? It just seems like such an easy way to ease both returning and new players into BW whilst having at most a minuscule effect on balance.
I think it is hard to say exactly how it would affect the overall balance. I know that as an A level terran player, changing the hotkeys for mines and tanks would make it easier to push vs protoss. Even just changing the siege mode hotkey from o to s would make it a lot easier for me to control marine/tank pushes in tvz. They might seem like very minor changes, but they would affect the game play and the skill level required to perform different mechanics would decrease. It is possible that it would create real imbalances by making it possible for some types of micro to be abused.
I also don't really buy the arguments in favor of changing the hotkeys. Brood War will be a very mechanically challenging game regardless of whether or not custom hotkeys are implemented. To play Brood War well you really need 200+ apm and at that level I don't think anyone is concerned with where the hot keys are. This seems like a change that is wanted by newer players, that wouldn't affect low level games, but could destroy the balance at higher levels, where I don't think this change is really wanted.
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EPT
