SC:BW will become a free download SC:R is a paid upgrade from SC:BW, with price TBD Classic Games team (an independent team) is working on this
HD support up to 4k resolution High resolution unit models, buildings, tilesets, doodads Upgraded audio; high fidelity sounds
Gameplay will be “precisely preserved from the original”
Muta stacking
Magic box
Same unit pathfinding
Control group limitations
“And more”
Campaign and Single Player also in HD Enhanced storytelling with comic book style interludes
Advanced matchmaking Enhanced ladder Blizzard Launcher connectivity Friends network through bnet Cloud saving for keybindings and replays Classic functionality for custom games and custom game lobbies Localization in 13 languages
Support for Windows 7, 8, 10 Rebind keys Observer mode Anti-cheat Other bug fixes and new features
StarCraft: Remastered is a reverently crafted modernization of Blizzard Entertainment’s original sci-fi real-time strategy game. StarCraft: Remastered will offer a full graphical overhaul of the original StarCraft and the StarCraft: Brood War expansion, bringing a modern look and feel to the timeless classic with widescreen UHD support for up to 4K resolution.
StarCraft: Remastered will include all of StarCraft’s and Brood War’s campaign missions with enhanced storytelling via new comic-book style interludes. While this rejuvenated version of StarCraft is locked and loaded for the modern era, the gameplay and balance have been precisely preserved, for an experience that will feel identical to veteran players.
StarCraft: Remastered Feature Highlights
Widescreen 4K Ultra HD Resolution
Classic StarCraft Gameplay Remains Untouched
New Illustrations Enhance Original Story
More than 50 Single-Player Missions • Plugged in to Blizzard’s Gaming Network
Cloud Saves for Campaign, Custom Maps, Replays, and Keybinds
Localized in 13 Languages
GORGEOUS ULTRA HD VISUALS
4K Ultra HD Graphics and Upgraded Audio: StarCraft: Remastered will include high-resolution unit models, buildings, doodads, and tilesets, as well as high-fidelity music and sound effects to bring the original game into the modern era, while retaining the classic StarCraft style.
Same Timeless Gameplay: The gameplay balance and idiosyncrasies have been painstakingly preserved from the original game. Mutalisk stacking, magic-boxing, unit pathfinding, control-group limitations, and more will all remain intact, allowing veteran players to enjoy playing and watching high-level competitive matches as before.
UNSURPASSED REAL-TIME STRATEGY GAMEPLAY
Includes Original and Expansion Campaigns: Return to the planetary battlefields of the war-torn Koprulu Sector and command the forces of the terran, zerg, and protoss across more than 50 story-driven single-player missions.
Fall in Love Again: Relive the epic saga of some of gaming’s most memorable and beloved heroes and villains, including Marshal Jim Raynor, Lieutenant Sarah Kerrigan, and Praetor Fenix.
Enhanced Storytelling: Original cinematics will be improved to 1080p resolution, while mission interludes and introductions will feature new comic-book style illustrations.
ROBUST FEATURES BRING THE TIMELESS CLASSIC TO THE MODERN ERA
Blizzard’s Gaming Network Brings a Bevy of Features: In addition to accurate matchmaking and enhanced ladder functionality, players will also be able to stay in touch with and chat with friends playing other Blizzard games. The classic functionality of named custom games and custom game lobbies will be retained, for the familiarity of long-time StarCraft players.
Localized in 13 Languages: English, German, French, Brazilian Portuguese, Spanish (LatAm), Spanish (European), Polish, Italian, Russian, Korean, Simplified Chinese, Traditional Chinese, and Japanese.
Press Release
Evolution Complete! Blizzard Entertainment Announces StarCraft®: Remastered
The groundbreaking sci-fi real-time strategy game remastered in 4K Ultra High Definition, to include all content from the original award-winning game and its renowned expansion, StarCraft: Brood War®.
StarCraft: Remastered maintains the gameplay and balance that set the standard for the RTS genre, while updating graphics and audio, and adding matchmaking, ladder, social features, and more!
IRVINE, California—March 27, 2017—One of the highest rated, most celebrated games of all time has evolved. Blizzard Entertainment today unveiled StarCraft®: Remastered, a reverently crafted modernization of the original award-winning real-time strategy game. StarCraft: Remastered will offer a full graphical overhaul of the original StarCraft and the StarCraft: Brood War® expansion, while preserving the sublime gameplay that captivated millions of gamers around the world and served as the foundation for professional global esports.
“StarCraft is a pure distillation of Blizzard’s DNA—its story, its balance, and all the little details reflect our long-running commitment to epic entertainment, and it’s been a staple in competitive gaming and esports for almost 20 years,” said Mike Morhaime, CEO and cofounder of Blizzard Entertainment. “With StarCraft: Remastered, we’re modernizing the original game’s visuals, audio, and online support to ensure that players can enjoy StarCraft for another 20 years and beyond.”
The remastered graphics and audio will bring a modern look and feel to the timeless classic, with widescreen UHD support for up to 4K resolution. Other updates will include new illustrations to enhance storytelling in the StarCraft and StarCraft: Brood War campaign missions; advanced matchmaking; full connectivity to Blizzard’s gaming network for social features and updates; cloud saving for campaign progress, custom maps, replays, and keybinds; support for eight new languages in addition to the original five; and more. While these improvements will bring StarCraft to the modern era, gameplay and balance have been precisely preserved, for an experience that will feel identical to veteran players.
Blizzard is developing StarCraft: Remastered for release on Windows® and Mac® PCs, with an anticipated release date this summer. Pricing and related information on StarCraft: Remastered will be announced at a later date. Prepare to venture once again onto the planetary battlefields of the war-torn Koprulu Sector; command the forces of the zerg, protoss, and terrans in their struggle for galactic domination; relive the epic saga of Marshal Jim Raynor, Kerrigan, and Praetor Fenix; or just vie for the GG against fellow players in this rejuvenated version of the online competitive RTS that set the bar for an entire genre.
In preparation for StarCraft: Remastered, Blizzard Entertainment will update StarCraft: Brood War later this week to version 1.18. The update will include bug fixes and improvements, including the ability to rebind keys; observer mode; modern anti-cheat measures; compatibility improvements for Windows 7, 8.1, and 10; and more. Once the update is live, StarCraft Anthology, which includes the original game and the Brood War expansion, will be free to download and play.
I'm a huge fan of a lot of things they did for Starcraft remastered but I'm going to be honest, some of the graphic changes are really ugly. You can look at 5 different fight scenarios and scroll to see "before" and "after" and you can clearly see that some are actually HARDER to make out what is happening. The marine/medics vs zergling/muta/lurker in the 5th fight is just... really confusing to watch. Hope you can pick between remastered graphics and normal graphics.
Edit: I always knew this was possible despite all of the nonbelievers thinking that the game would never work with HD assets, but holy cow did I not think Blizz would actually make it this soon.
Does newly made workers gather mineral/gas automatically? Can you select any number of units? or still 12?
Not interested if these mechanisms doesn't change. Maybe there'll be people saying "that is part of the game, it requires more micro, that's what makes it great." Alright, why don't they change the max number of units you can select to 1? That requires even more micro. GLHF.
On March 26 2017 14:37 jy_9876543210 wrote: Does newly made workers gather mineral/gas automatically? Can you select any number of units? or still 12?
Not interested if these mechanisms doesn't change. Maybe there'll be people saying "that is part of the game, it requires more micro, that's what makes it great." Alright, why don't they change the max number of units you can select to 1? That requires even more micro. GLHF.
Maybe if you read the OP you will find the answer .
On March 26 2017 14:37 jy_9876543210 wrote: Does newly made workers gather mineral/gas automatically? Can you select any number of units? or still 12?
Not interested if these mechanisms doesn't change. Maybe there'll be people saying "that is part of the game, it requires more micro, that's what makes it great." Alright, why don't they change the max number of units you can select to 1? That requires even more micro. GLHF.
Stick to simple games that you can manage buddy.
Although there were limitations in what you could originally do in Starcraft, it also at the same time speaks to its balance. This would not be the same game if a Zerg player could select all their units at once.
On March 26 2017 14:34 ZiggyPG wrote: I've got mixed feelings about this whole affair
It's perfect, what are you talking about?
The only slight complaint is being able to change keys, which only matters for competitors really, so I'm curious if ASL and other competitions will ban changing keys.
Other than that this is fucking amazing for Brood War. In every way possible
(Am i the only one who kinda feels like this is like Blizzard acknowledging Sc2 is a failure and will be replaced by BW HD...especially in Korea which is where SC2 is still competitive?)
On March 26 2017 14:43 Psyonic_Reaver wrote: The marines look like the ground.
i kinda have that problem in the classic version. i think a good portion of the blame is the player color.
I mean I don't feel biased here, I think it is commonly agreed upon that brown zealots get the worst of it and blend in pretty hard on certain terrain. But these brown marines are on another level. Like seriously... I know this might not be the final product but how the hell can they put this on the website and think this looks good? For a remastered edition, you don't want to have the same problems as the game you're fucking remastering lol.
On March 26 2017 14:37 jy_9876543210 wrote: Does newly made workers gather mineral/gas automatically? Can you select any number of units? or still 12?
Not interested if these mechanisms doesn't change. Maybe there'll be people saying "that is part of the game, it requires more micro, that's what makes it great." Alright, why don't they change the max number of units you can select to 1? That requires even more micro. GLHF.
Stick to simple games that you can manage buddy.
Although there were limitations in what you could originally do in Starcraft, it also at the same time speaks to its balance. This would not be the same game if a Zerg player could select all their units at once.
Whatever. When I play a strategy game, I don't want action games mixed in it. There are people enjoy repeating the same thing over and over again, but most people are bored by it.
On March 26 2017 14:33 SCC-Faust wrote: I'm a huge fan of a lot of things they did for Starcraft remastered but I'm going to be honest, some of the graphic changes are really ugly. You can look at 5 different fight scenarios and scroll to see "before" and "after" and you can clearly see that some are actually HARDER to make out what is happening. The marine/medics vs zergling/muta/lurker in the 5th fight is just... really confusing to watch. Hope you can pick between remastered graphics and normal graphics.
Yeah, I really don't like the remastered goliaths and tanks. Look too much like generic future walkers/tanks.
On March 26 2017 14:37 jy_9876543210 wrote: Does newly made workers gather mineral/gas automatically? Can you select any number of units? or still 12?
Not interested if these mechanisms doesn't change. Maybe there'll be people saying "that is part of the game, it requires more micro, that's what makes it great." Alright, why don't they change the max number of units you can select to 1? That requires even more micro. GLHF.
Stick to simple games that you can manage buddy.
Although there were limitations in what you could originally do in Starcraft, it also at the same time speaks to its balance. This would not be the same game if a Zerg player could select all their units at once.
Whatever. When I play a strategy game, I don't want action games mixed in it. There are people enjoy repeating the same thing over and over again, but most people are bored by it.
Yup. There exists many strategy games. They differ from each other. Some require less mechanics. Some require more mechanics. Some are really deep strategywise. Some are shallow. They are different. Different people like different games. BW fans like BW. You like something else. Everyone is content, right?
On March 26 2017 14:37 jy_9876543210 wrote: Does newly made workers gather mineral/gas automatically? Can you select any number of units? or still 12?
Not interested if these mechanisms doesn't change. Maybe there'll be people saying "that is part of the game, it requires more micro, that's what makes it great." Alright, why don't they change the max number of units you can select to 1? That requires even more micro. GLHF.
Stick to simple games that you can manage buddy.
Although there were limitations in what you could originally do in Starcraft, it also at the same time speaks to its balance. This would not be the same game if a Zerg player could select all their units at once.
Whatever. When I play a strategy game, I don't want action games mixed in it. There are people enjoy repeating the same thing over and over again, but most people are bored by it.
Cool dude. I am not knocking what you enjoy but you're preaching to deaf ears if you come and complain in a topic about Brood War because most people here aren't bored by it.
On March 26 2017 14:59 xandepope wrote: OMG just shut up and take my money!!!!
what money, its free
Are you sure? I thought it was but people are telling me that Starcraft on patch 1.18 is totally free but it is likely Starcraft remastered may cost money. And will these two games be compatible? Can you play each other on them? Is Starcraft 1.18 going to BE remastered? I'm so fucking confused right now. They did not explain it well or I am literally retarded.
I love Starcraft, I have bought every single version and I will be buying this one, but there's no reason in trying to deny that this looks REALLY ugly. You can pretend it's not all you want, but everyone on TL should be losing their shit right now, yet we're here talking about how ugly it looks 2 pages in already.
I suppose they're keeping animations with the same amount of frames so micro is unaffected, but holy shit, it looks SO bad to have 3D models with barely any frames. The original game has a nostalgic look to it, if you played back then or love the game, you don't mind the graphics, in fact I love me some 2D graphics and the valkyrie shooting still looks badass as hell to this day.
However, the way this looks appeals to no one - it's too ugly for current generation, and lacks the soul of the original. Should've taken a page from the street fighter 3rd strike remastered version for the Xbox Live/PSN and keep the same graphics too, or update the 2D graphics like Street Fighter 2 HD Remix. This... I mean, I'll be buying it, I can't wait to ladder on it, but jesus it's ugly.
On March 26 2017 15:05 Kelberot wrote: I love Starcraft, I have bought every single version and I will be buying this one, but there's no reason in trying to deny that this looks REALLY ugly. You can pretend it's not all you want, but everyone on TL should be losing their shit right now, yet we're here talking about how ugly it looks 2 pages in already.
I suppose they're keeping animations with the same amount of frames so micro is unaffected, but holy shit, it looks SO bad to have 3D models with barely any frames. The original game has a nostalgic look to it, if you played back then or love the game, you don't mind the graphics, in fact I love me some 2D graphics and the valkyrie shooting still looks badass as hell to this day.
However, the way this looks appeals to no one - it's too ugly for current generation, and lacks the soul of the original. Should've taken a page from the street fighter 3rd strike remastered version for the Xbox Live/PSN and keep the same graphics too, or update the 2D graphics like Street Fighter 2 HD Remix. This... I mean, I'll be buying it, I can't wait to ladder on it, but jesus it's ugly.
You seem confused. It's the same graphics engine with the same unit models retextured. There is hardly any other option if you wish to keep the same gameplay with improved graphics.
On March 26 2017 14:37 jy_9876543210 wrote: Does newly made workers gather mineral/gas automatically? Can you select any number of units? or still 12?
Not interested if these mechanisms doesn't change. Maybe there'll be people saying "that is part of the game, it requires more micro, that's what makes it great." Alright, why don't they change the max number of units you can select to 1? That requires even more micro. GLHF.
Stick to simple games that you can manage buddy.
Although there were limitations in what you could originally do in Starcraft, it also at the same time speaks to its balance. This would not be the same game if a Zerg player could select all their units at once.
Whatever. When I play a strategy game, I don't want action games mixed in it. There are people enjoy repeating the same thing over and over again, but most people are bored by it.
Cool dude. I am not knocking what you enjoy but you're preaching to deaf ears if you come and complain in a topic about Brood War because most people here aren't bored by it.
People don't realize that the limited user interface is actually part of the balance of the game. Imagine if you could select more than 12 units... do you know how much this would break muta micro? Or any type of air unit stacking. Having like 50 air units stacked, imagine that.
On March 26 2017 15:05 Kelberot wrote: I love Starcraft, I have bought every single version and I will be buying this one, but there's no reason in trying to deny that this looks REALLY ugly. You can pretend it's not all you want, but everyone on TL should be losing their shit right now, yet we're here talking about how ugly it looks 2 pages in already.
I suppose they're keeping animations with the same amount of frames so micro is unaffected, but holy shit, it looks SO bad to have 3D models with barely any frames. The original game has a nostalgic look to it, if you played back then or love the game, you don't mind the graphics, in fact I love me some 2D graphics and the valkyrie shooting still looks badass as hell to this day.
However, the way this looks appeals to no one - it's too ugly for current generation, and lacks the soul of the original. Should've taken a page from the street fighter 3rd strike remastered version for the Xbox Live/PSN and keep the same graphics too, or update the 2D graphics like Street Fighter 2 HD Remix. This... I mean, I'll be buying it, I can't wait to ladder on it, but jesus it's ugly.
You seem confused. It's the same graphics engine with the same unit models retextured. There is hardly any other option if you wish to keep the same gameplay with improved graphics.
you sure those are the same models? Ghost looks pretty different.
On March 26 2017 14:47 MaestroSC wrote: hype hype hype hype!
OMG!!! SO sick!!
(Am i the only one who kinda feels like this is like Blizzard acknowledging Sc2 is a failure and will be replaced by BW HD...especially in Korea which is where SC2 is still competitive?)
I dont think so? Just because you make a remake or a remaster of something, doesn't mean you're disowning the latest installment of the series.
On March 26 2017 15:05 Kelberot wrote: I love Starcraft, I have bought every single version and I will be buying this one, but there's no reason in trying to deny that this looks REALLY ugly. You can pretend it's not all you want, but everyone on TL should be losing their shit right now, yet we're here talking about how ugly it looks 2 pages in already.
I suppose they're keeping animations with the same amount of frames so micro is unaffected, but holy shit, it looks SO bad to have 3D models with barely any frames. The original game has a nostalgic look to it, if you played back then or love the game, you don't mind the graphics, in fact I love me some 2D graphics and the valkyrie shooting still looks badass as hell to this day.
However, the way this looks appeals to no one - it's too ugly for current generation, and lacks the soul of the original. Should've taken a page from the street fighter 3rd strike remastered version for the Xbox Live/PSN and keep the same graphics too, or update the 2D graphics like Street Fighter 2 HD Remix. This... I mean, I'll be buying it, I can't wait to ladder on it, but jesus it's ugly.
I think it has to be this way. You can't just rebuild the game from scratch and have it have the exact same gameplay, they have to recoat the same stuff.
On March 26 2017 14:59 xandepope wrote: OMG just shut up and take my money!!!!
what money, its free
Are you sure? I thought it was but people are telling me that Starcraft on patch 1.18 is totally free but it is likely Starcraft remastered may cost money. And will these two games be compatible? Can you play each other on them? Is Starcraft 1.18 going to BE remastered? I'm so fucking confused right now. They did not explain it well or I am literally retarded.
On March 26 2017 14:59 xandepope wrote: OMG just shut up and take my money!!!!
what money, its free
Are you sure? I thought it was but people are telling me that Starcraft on patch 1.18 is totally free but it is likely Starcraft remastered may cost money. And will these two games be compatible? Can you play each other on them? Is Starcraft 1.18 going to BE remastered? I'm so fucking confused right now. They did not explain it well or I am literally retarded.
On March 26 2017 14:37 jy_9876543210 wrote: Does newly made workers gather mineral/gas automatically? Can you select any number of units? or still 12?
Not interested if these mechanisms doesn't change. Maybe there'll be people saying "that is part of the game, it requires more micro, that's what makes it great." Alright, why don't they change the max number of units you can select to 1? That requires even more micro. GLHF.
Stick to simple games that you can manage buddy.
Although there were limitations in what you could originally do in Starcraft, it also at the same time speaks to its balance. This would not be the same game if a Zerg player could select all their units at once.
Whatever. When I play a strategy game, I don't want action games mixed in it. There are people enjoy repeating the same thing over and over again, but most people are bored by it.
Cool dude. I am not knocking what you enjoy but you're preaching to deaf ears if you come and complain in a topic about Brood War because most people here aren't bored by it.
Yes, many people here aren't bored by it, but only people here. Sorry, I didn't realize this is a BW alumni meeting. I used to love BW, but in my opinion there are a lot of room for improvements, and now here is a chance, but they didn't do any of it.
On March 26 2017 14:33 SCC-Faust wrote: I'm a huge fan of a lot of things they did for Starcraft remastered but I'm going to be honest, some of the graphic changes are really ugly. You can look at 5 different fight scenarios and scroll to see "before" and "after" and you can clearly see that some are actually HARDER to make out what is happening. The marine/medics vs zergling/muta/lurker in the 5th fight is just... really confusing to watch. Hjavascript:addUBB('img')ope you can pick between remastered graphics and normal graphics.
Yeah, I really don't like the remastered goliaths and tanks. Look too much like generic future walkers/tanks.
I think the Tanks look kinda goofy since they're not exact 1:1 updates of the original. The proportions are a bit off.
The goliath doesn't look that bad. If you compare the new one with the old one, I think the new one doesn't look that different from the old one aside from added details.
While I think it'll be harder to judge the graphics based off of heavily-compressed videos or gifs, I do think they need to accommodate for busier-looking, more detailed models that may blend into the busier-looking, more detailed terrain. They may need to tweak the shadows to make the units and buildings pop out more too.
Otherwise, I think this is the best outcome. It sounds like they intend to make the original 1.18 BW compatible with playing with SC:R clients, so let's hope they follow through with that if the graphics still turn away too many players.
On March 26 2017 14:59 xandepope wrote: OMG just shut up and take my money!!!!
what money, its free
Are you sure? I thought it was but people are telling me that Starcraft on patch 1.18 is totally free but it is likely Starcraft remastered may cost money. And will these two games be compatible? Can you play each other on them? Is Starcraft 1.18 going to BE remastered? I'm so fucking confused right now. They did not explain it well or I am literally retarded.
I'm hearing some conflicting things too.
The TL;DR is correct, straight from Blizzard.
BW is free SC:R is a paid "upgrade"
Ah yeah, I'm dumb. Thank you for the clarification. This is actually great and I feel very happy with how they handled this now. Someone posted this which was in the dev thread I think:
Players will be able to connect and play, watch replays, or share saved games seamlessly between free Brood War, and the SC:R upgrade. It’s all the same client! Each player and observer in the game can opt to play in standard or high def individually, and you can switch instantly and seamlessly at the press of a button right inside the game or while watching a replay.
On March 26 2017 14:37 jy_9876543210 wrote: Does newly made workers gather mineral/gas automatically? Can you select any number of units? or still 12?
Not interested if these mechanisms doesn't change. Maybe there'll be people saying "that is part of the game, it requires more micro, that's what makes it great." Alright, why don't they change the max number of units you can select to 1? That requires even more micro. GLHF.
Stick to simple games that you can manage buddy.
Although there were limitations in what you could originally do in Starcraft, it also at the same time speaks to its balance. This would not be the same game if a Zerg player could select all their units at once.
Whatever. When I play a strategy game, I don't want action games mixed in it. There are people enjoy repeating the same thing over and over again, but most people are bored by it.
Cool dude. I am not knocking what you enjoy but you're preaching to deaf ears if you come and complain in a topic about Brood War because most people here aren't bored by it.
People don't realize that the limited user interface is actually part of the balance of the game. Imagine if you could select more than 12 units... do you know how much this would break muta micro? Or any type of air unit stacking. Having like 50 air units stacked, imagine that.
I'm pretty aware of it. I've seen it in SC2, too. Zerg used to have auto injection for queen, but people complained that it's too strong, it was removed later. Personally I believe it's a really stupid idea to increase necessary mechanical movements to nerf a race. The game mechanism is one thing, balance is another thing. The "action" requirement of the game should be made minimum, because it's a strategy game after all, not an action game. In an action game, of course you can do that. If a character is too strong, you just make it more difficult to use to balance the game.
For unit design differences, look at the graphics comparison thread. I used the uncompressed, full resolution video to make the clips, so they should be more representative of what the game looks like than screencaps or twitch clips. The units look very similar. My only complaint is they all look like they just came from a car wash.
On March 26 2017 14:37 jy_9876543210 wrote: Does newly made workers gather mineral/gas automatically? Can you select any number of units? or still 12?
Not interested if these mechanisms doesn't change. Maybe there'll be people saying "that is part of the game, it requires more micro, that's what makes it great." Alright, why don't they change the max number of units you can select to 1? That requires even more micro. GLHF.
Stick to simple games that you can manage buddy.
Although there were limitations in what you could originally do in Starcraft, it also at the same time speaks to its balance. This would not be the same game if a Zerg player could select all their units at once.
Whatever. When I play a strategy game, I don't want action games mixed in it. There are people enjoy repeating the same thing over and over again, but most people are bored by it.
Cool dude. I am not knocking what you enjoy but you're preaching to deaf ears if you come and complain in a topic about Brood War because most people here aren't bored by it.
People don't realize that the limited user interface is actually part of the balance of the game. Imagine if you could select more than 12 units... do you know how much this would break muta micro? Or any type of air unit stacking. Having like 50 air units stacked, imagine that.
I'm pretty aware of it. I've seen it in SC2, too. Zerg used to have auto injection for queen, but people complained that it's too strong, it was removed later. Personally I believe it's a really stupid idea to increase necessary mechanical movements to nerf a race. The game mechanism is one thing, balance is another thing. The "action" requirement of the game should be made minimum, because it's a strategy game after all, not an action game. In an action game, of course you can do that. If a character is too strong, you just make it more difficult to use to balance the game.
It's a real-time strategy game. The type of game you seem more interested in are turn-based strategy games, like Civlization
On March 26 2017 14:37 jy_9876543210 wrote: Does newly made workers gather mineral/gas automatically? Can you select any number of units? or still 12?
Not interested if these mechanisms doesn't change. Maybe there'll be people saying "that is part of the game, it requires more micro, that's what makes it great." Alright, why don't they change the max number of units you can select to 1? That requires even more micro. GLHF.
Stick to simple games that you can manage buddy.
Although there were limitations in what you could originally do in Starcraft, it also at the same time speaks to its balance. This would not be the same game if a Zerg player could select all their units at once.
Whatever. When I play a strategy game, I don't want action games mixed in it. There are people enjoy repeating the same thing over and over again, but most people are bored by it.
Cool dude. I am not knocking what you enjoy but you're preaching to deaf ears if you come and complain in a topic about Brood War because most people here aren't bored by it.
People don't realize that the limited user interface is actually part of the balance of the game. Imagine if you could select more than 12 units... do you know how much this would break muta micro? Or any type of air unit stacking. Having like 50 air units stacked, imagine that.
I'm pretty aware of it. I've seen it in SC2, too. Zerg used to have auto injection for queen, but people complained that it's too strong, it was removed later. Personally I believe it's a really stupid idea to increase necessary mechanical movements to nerf a race. The game mechanism is one thing, balance is another thing. The "action" requirement of the game should be made minimum, because it's a strategy game after all, not an action game. In an action game, of course you can do that. If a character is too strong, you just make it more difficult to use to balance the game.
It's a real-time strategy game. The type of game you seem more interested in are turn-based strategy games, like Civlization
You don't see what I'm saying. If newly made workers gather mineral/gas automatically, does it become a turn-based game? If you can select more than 12 units, does it become a turn-based game?
It's still a RTS game, just more strategy focused, less action focused, and nothing changes for real-time.
On March 26 2017 14:37 jy_9876543210 wrote: Does newly made workers gather mineral/gas automatically? Can you select any number of units? or still 12?
Not interested if these mechanisms doesn't change. Maybe there'll be people saying "that is part of the game, it requires more micro, that's what makes it great." Alright, why don't they change the max number of units you can select to 1? That requires even more micro. GLHF.
Stick to simple games that you can manage buddy.
Although there were limitations in what you could originally do in Starcraft, it also at the same time speaks to its balance. This would not be the same game if a Zerg player could select all their units at once.
Whatever. When I play a strategy game, I don't want action games mixed in it. There are people enjoy repeating the same thing over and over again, but most people are bored by it.
Cool dude. I am not knocking what you enjoy but you're preaching to deaf ears if you come and complain in a topic about Brood War because most people here aren't bored by it.
People don't realize that the limited user interface is actually part of the balance of the game. Imagine if you could select more than 12 units... do you know how much this would break muta micro? Or any type of air unit stacking. Having like 50 air units stacked, imagine that.
I'm pretty aware of it. I've seen it in SC2, too. Zerg used to have auto injection for queen, but people complained that it's too strong, it was removed later. Personally I believe it's a really stupid idea to increase necessary mechanical movements to nerf a race. The game mechanism is one thing, balance is another thing. The "action" requirement of the game should be made minimum, because it's a strategy game after all, not an action game. In an action game, of course you can do that. If a character is too strong, you just make it more difficult to use to balance the game.
It's a real-time strategy game. The type of game you seem more interested in are turn-based strategy games, like Civlization
You don't see what I'm saying. If newly made workers gather mineral/gas automatically, does it become a turn-based game? If you can select more than 12 units, does it become a turn-based game?
12 unit selection was a Design Decision made way back then not a technical limitation.
On March 26 2017 14:37 jy_9876543210 wrote: Does newly made workers gather mineral/gas automatically? Can you select any number of units? or still 12?
Not interested if these mechanisms doesn't change. Maybe there'll be people saying "that is part of the game, it requires more micro, that's what makes it great." Alright, why don't they change the max number of units you can select to 1? That requires even more micro. GLHF.
Stick to simple games that you can manage buddy.
Although there were limitations in what you could originally do in Starcraft, it also at the same time speaks to its balance. This would not be the same game if a Zerg player could select all their units at once.
Whatever. When I play a strategy game, I don't want action games mixed in it. There are people enjoy repeating the same thing over and over again, but most people are bored by it.
Cool dude. I am not knocking what you enjoy but you're preaching to deaf ears if you come and complain in a topic about Brood War because most people here aren't bored by it.
People don't realize that the limited user interface is actually part of the balance of the game. Imagine if you could select more than 12 units... do you know how much this would break muta micro? Or any type of air unit stacking. Having like 50 air units stacked, imagine that.
I'm pretty aware of it. I've seen it in SC2, too. Zerg used to have auto injection for queen, but people complained that it's too strong, it was removed later. Personally I believe it's a really stupid idea to increase necessary mechanical movements to nerf a race. The game mechanism is one thing, balance is another thing. The "action" requirement of the game should be made minimum, because it's a strategy game after all, not an action game. In an action game, of course you can do that. If a character is too strong, you just make it more difficult to use to balance the game.
It's a real-time strategy game. The type of game you seem more interested in are turn-based strategy games, like Civlization
You don't see what I'm saying. If newly made workers gather mineral/gas automatically, does it become a turn-based game? If you can select more than 12 units, does it become a turn-based game?
12 unit selection was a Design Decision made way back then not a technical limitation.
On March 26 2017 14:37 jy_9876543210 wrote: Does newly made workers gather mineral/gas automatically? Can you select any number of units? or still 12?
Not interested if these mechanisms doesn't change. Maybe there'll be people saying "that is part of the game, it requires more micro, that's what makes it great." Alright, why don't they change the max number of units you can select to 1? That requires even more micro. GLHF.
Stick to simple games that you can manage buddy.
Although there were limitations in what you could originally do in Starcraft, it also at the same time speaks to its balance. This would not be the same game if a Zerg player could select all their units at once.
Whatever. When I play a strategy game, I don't want action games mixed in it. There are people enjoy repeating the same thing over and over again, but most people are bored by it.
Cool dude. I am not knocking what you enjoy but you're preaching to deaf ears if you come and complain in a topic about Brood War because most people here aren't bored by it.
People don't realize that the limited user interface is actually part of the balance of the game. Imagine if you could select more than 12 units... do you know how much this would break muta micro? Or any type of air unit stacking. Having like 50 air units stacked, imagine that.
I'm pretty aware of it. I've seen it in SC2, too. Zerg used to have auto injection for queen, but people complained that it's too strong, it was removed later. Personally I believe it's a really stupid idea to increase necessary mechanical movements to nerf a race. The game mechanism is one thing, balance is another thing. The "action" requirement of the game should be made minimum, because it's a strategy game after all, not an action game. In an action game, of course you can do that. If a character is too strong, you just make it more difficult to use to balance the game.
It's a real-time strategy game. The type of game you seem more interested in are turn-based strategy games, like Civlization
You don't see what I'm saying. If newly made workers gather mineral/gas automatically, does it become a turn-based game? If you can select more than 12 units, does it become a turn-based game?
12 unit selection was a Design Decision made way back then not a technical limitation.
also the Starcraft beta had multiple building selection.
On March 26 2017 15:36 Ravness wrote: So basically what happens to SC2? They pretty much dropped the ball, but are they out right just leave it there?
I'm sure Korea will just go straight back to SC1, but the future of SC2 is looking grim, if not sealed its fate.
We still got the war chest with all its cosmetics, and we also have new co-op missions and commanders. It's pretty casual stuff, but I believe SC:R and SC2 were developed by separate teams so either SC2 gets content or its own team may be working on another release entirely.
On March 26 2017 14:37 jy_9876543210 wrote: Does newly made workers gather mineral/gas automatically? Can you select any number of units? or still 12?
Not interested if these mechanisms doesn't change. Maybe there'll be people saying "that is part of the game, it requires more micro, that's what makes it great." Alright, why don't they change the max number of units you can select to 1? That requires even more micro. GLHF.
Stick to simple games that you can manage buddy.
Although there were limitations in what you could originally do in Starcraft, it also at the same time speaks to its balance. This would not be the same game if a Zerg player could select all their units at once.
Whatever. When I play a strategy game, I don't want action games mixed in it. There are people enjoy repeating the same thing over and over again, but most people are bored by it.
Cool dude. I am not knocking what you enjoy but you're preaching to deaf ears if you come and complain in a topic about Brood War because most people here aren't bored by it.
People don't realize that the limited user interface is actually part of the balance of the game. Imagine if you could select more than 12 units... do you know how much this would break muta micro? Or any type of air unit stacking. Having like 50 air units stacked, imagine that.
I'm pretty aware of it. I've seen it in SC2, too. Zerg used to have auto injection for queen, but people complained that it's too strong, it was removed later. Personally I believe it's a really stupid idea to increase necessary mechanical movements to nerf a race. The game mechanism is one thing, balance is another thing. The "action" requirement of the game should be made minimum, because it's a strategy game after all, not an action game. In an action game, of course you can do that. If a character is too strong, you just make it more difficult to use to balance the game.
It's a real-time strategy game. The type of game you seem more interested in are turn-based strategy games, like Civlization
You don't see what I'm saying. If newly made workers gather mineral/gas automatically, does it become a turn-based game? If you can select more than 12 units, does it become a turn-based game?
12 unit selection was a Design Decision made way back then not a technical limitation.
So they made it a real-time-Action-strategy game deliberately. Alright then, I thought SC was a RTS game. Apparent I was wrong. Anyways...
On March 26 2017 14:37 jy_9876543210 wrote: Does newly made workers gather mineral/gas automatically? Can you select any number of units? or still 12?
Not interested if these mechanisms doesn't change. Maybe there'll be people saying "that is part of the game, it requires more micro, that's what makes it great." Alright, why don't they change the max number of units you can select to 1? That requires even more micro. GLHF.
Stick to simple games that you can manage buddy.
Although there were limitations in what you could originally do in Starcraft, it also at the same time speaks to its balance. This would not be the same game if a Zerg player could select all their units at once.
Whatever. When I play a strategy game, I don't want action games mixed in it. There are people enjoy repeating the same thing over and over again, but most people are bored by it.
Cool dude. I am not knocking what you enjoy but you're preaching to deaf ears if you come and complain in a topic about Brood War because most people here aren't bored by it.
People don't realize that the limited user interface is actually part of the balance of the game. Imagine if you could select more than 12 units... do you know how much this would break muta micro? Or any type of air unit stacking. Having like 50 air units stacked, imagine that.
I'm pretty aware of it. I've seen it in SC2, too. Zerg used to have auto injection for queen, but people complained that it's too strong, it was removed later. Personally I believe it's a really stupid idea to increase necessary mechanical movements to nerf a race. The game mechanism is one thing, balance is another thing. The "action" requirement of the game should be made minimum, because it's a strategy game after all, not an action game. In an action game, of course you can do that. If a character is too strong, you just make it more difficult to use to balance the game.
It's a real-time strategy game. The type of game you seem more interested in are turn-based strategy games, like Civlization
You don't see what I'm saying. If newly made workers gather mineral/gas automatically, does it become a turn-based game? If you can select more than 12 units, does it become a turn-based game?
12 unit selection was a Design Decision made way back then not a technical limitation.
So they made it a real-time-Action-strategy game deliberately. Alright then, I thought SC was a RTS game. Apparent I was wrong. Anyways...
hmm, ok so you can just change the genre to mean whatever you want it to mean.
On March 26 2017 14:37 jy_9876543210 wrote: Does newly made workers gather mineral/gas automatically? Can you select any number of units? or still 12?
Not interested if these mechanisms doesn't change. Maybe there'll be people saying "that is part of the game, it requires more micro, that's what makes it great." Alright, why don't they change the max number of units you can select to 1? That requires even more micro. GLHF.
Stick to simple games that you can manage buddy.
Although there were limitations in what you could originally do in Starcraft, it also at the same time speaks to its balance. This would not be the same game if a Zerg player could select all their units at once.
Whatever. When I play a strategy game, I don't want action games mixed in it. There are people enjoy repeating the same thing over and over again, but most people are bored by it.
Cool dude. I am not knocking what you enjoy but you're preaching to deaf ears if you come and complain in a topic about Brood War because most people here aren't bored by it.
People don't realize that the limited user interface is actually part of the balance of the game. Imagine if you could select more than 12 units... do you know how much this would break muta micro? Or any type of air unit stacking. Having like 50 air units stacked, imagine that.
I'm pretty aware of it. I've seen it in SC2, too. Zerg used to have auto injection for queen, but people complained that it's too strong, it was removed later. Personally I believe it's a really stupid idea to increase necessary mechanical movements to nerf a race. The game mechanism is one thing, balance is another thing. The "action" requirement of the game should be made minimum, because it's a strategy game after all, not an action game. In an action game, of course you can do that. If a character is too strong, you just make it more difficult to use to balance the game.
It's a real-time strategy game. The type of game you seem more interested in are turn-based strategy games, like Civlization
You don't see what I'm saying. If newly made workers gather mineral/gas automatically, does it become a turn-based game? If you can select more than 12 units, does it become a turn-based game?
12 unit selection was a Design Decision made way back then not a technical limitation.
So they made it a real-time-Action-strategy game deliberately. Alright then, I thought SC was a RTS game. Apparent I was wrong. Anyways...
Just learned that "real-time-Action-strategy"=="MOBA". It's so inappropriate, BW is much more action focused.
On March 26 2017 14:37 jy_9876543210 wrote: Does newly made workers gather mineral/gas automatically? Can you select any number of units? or still 12?
Not interested if these mechanisms doesn't change. Maybe there'll be people saying "that is part of the game, it requires more micro, that's what makes it great." Alright, why don't they change the max number of units you can select to 1? That requires even more micro. GLHF.
Stick to simple games that you can manage buddy.
Although there were limitations in what you could originally do in Starcraft, it also at the same time speaks to its balance. This would not be the same game if a Zerg player could select all their units at once.
Whatever. When I play a strategy game, I don't want action games mixed in it. There are people enjoy repeating the same thing over and over again, but most people are bored by it.
Cool dude. I am not knocking what you enjoy but you're preaching to deaf ears if you come and complain in a topic about Brood War because most people here aren't bored by it.
People don't realize that the limited user interface is actually part of the balance of the game. Imagine if you could select more than 12 units... do you know how much this would break muta micro? Or any type of air unit stacking. Having like 50 air units stacked, imagine that.
I'm pretty aware of it. I've seen it in SC2, too. Zerg used to have auto injection for queen, but people complained that it's too strong, it was removed later. Personally I believe it's a really stupid idea to increase necessary mechanical movements to nerf a race. The game mechanism is one thing, balance is another thing. The "action" requirement of the game should be made minimum, because it's a strategy game after all, not an action game. In an action game, of course you can do that. If a character is too strong, you just make it more difficult to use to balance the game.
It's a real-time strategy game. The type of game you seem more interested in are turn-based strategy games, like Civlization
You don't see what I'm saying. If newly made workers gather mineral/gas automatically, does it become a turn-based game? If you can select more than 12 units, does it become a turn-based game?
12 unit selection was a Design Decision made way back then not a technical limitation.
So they made it a real-time-Action-strategy game deliberately. Alright then, I thought SC was a RTS game. Apparent I was wrong. Anyways...
User was warned for this post
This discussion is not appropriate for this thread. Find somewhere else for it (it's been done many times but it isn't an invalid discussion or anything, just the wrong place).
On March 26 2017 15:45 Piste wrote: keybinding will ruin the proscene
I don't think pros that have practiced for a decade with the original binds would swap them now. They also have insane mechanics regardless of how bad the binds are so I don't think they'll see that much improvement with different keys. We'll see though
Maybe it is the animations but holy crap is it quite difficult to see marines/zerglings in comparison.
forget the marines, why'd they get rid of the red lazer outline on the UI
What I find amazing is, they apparently show the original replay between Flash and Jaedong during ASL2 on https://starcraft.com/en-us/ (last example), so it really seems compatible with 1.16. For comparison:
On March 26 2017 15:45 Piste wrote: keybinding will ruin the proscene
I don't think pros that have practiced for a decade with the original binds would swap them now. They also have insane mechanics regardless of how bad the binds are so I don't think they'll see that much improvement with different keys. We'll see though
Of course they will, you understand how much difference it will make when you can clumb all the hotkeys? I think this will make hard times for protoss which is the least mechanical race, since mechanics of z and t will increase
On March 26 2017 15:45 Piste wrote: keybinding will ruin the proscene
I don't think pros that have practiced for a decade with the original binds would swap them now. They also have insane mechanics regardless of how bad the binds are so I don't think they'll see that much improvement with different keys. We'll see though
Of course they will, you understand how much difference it will make when you can clumb all the hotkeys? I think this will make hard times for protoss which is the least mechanical race, since mechanics of z and t will increase
There really isn't much that can be done about keybinds at this point with them coming to patch 1.18 soon for original BW, and it'll be even harder to remain rolled-back to 1.16 with 1.18 making the game F2P and giving Fish official support.
On March 26 2017 15:45 Piste wrote: keybinding will ruin the proscene
I don't think pros that have practiced for a decade with the original binds would swap them now. They also have insane mechanics regardless of how bad the binds are so I don't think they'll see that much improvement with different keys. We'll see though
Of course they will, you understand how much difference it will make when you can clumb all the hotkeys? I think this will make hard times for protoss which is the least mechanical race, since mechanics of z and t will increase
I have 10 years of xp playing BW and I'm not gonna change hotkeys. Im not gonna throw away 10 years worth of muscle memory.
Mmm trying to rope me back into days of chaoslauncher and brain/iccup
I do wonder if this is 1:1, working around stacking/magic box that being said i doubt i'll be as engrossed as I was watching this shit on shitty quality streams in korean that for some reason has emo as shit music at 2am in the morning.
aw I was hoping for the SM to be on the remaster. Still super excited for the HD version! New textures look amazing.
e: did they say anything about multiplayer? Will Blizz host a server/put auto matchmaking? e2: oh they did, fucking amazing. Will start playing BW online when semester ends :DDDD
On March 26 2017 15:45 Piste wrote: keybinding will ruin the proscene
hardly
On March 26 2017 16:33 Muxtar wrote: Aaaaand this will kill SC2. Good job Blizzard, to throw away your 7-years polished game in favor of 20-years old game.
you can't polish a piece of shit thats why they went back to the original
On March 26 2017 15:45 Piste wrote: keybinding will ruin the proscene
I don't think pros that have practiced for a decade with the original binds would swap them now. They also have insane mechanics regardless of how bad the binds are so I don't think they'll see that much improvement with different keys. We'll see though
Of course they will, you understand how much difference it will make when you can clumb all the hotkeys? I think this will make hard times for protoss which is the least mechanical race, since mechanics of z and t will increase
former BW pros still use the BW keybindings for SC2, so your argument falls straight up flat here
On March 26 2017 16:33 Muxtar wrote: Aaaaand this will kill SC2. Good job Blizzard, to throw away your 7-years polished game in favor of 20-years old game.
I don't think this will "kill" anything. People might prefer one over the other. I don't think foreign professional BW is going to get insanely big seeing at the size of it now/historically.
On March 26 2017 16:40 Esp1noza wrote: So what about the outdated network protocol of BW? Will it be like in sc2 where I played alot of 4v4 in the early days, never with lags?
On March 26 2017 16:37 classicyellow83 wrote: whats happens to shield battery?
from the thread
On March 26 2017 14:47 tec27 wrote: Just to give you all an update given the announcements today, work on ShieldBattery will definitely be continuing
We have a bunch of stuff just about ready for another update, but depending on 1.18's timing it may take a bit to get out. 1.18 will require us to re-do a bunch of work to make our interactions with the game work again, but we'll get that done as fast as possible (although we can only start once we've actually received the new patch). We'll get that done ASAP, though, and get a new version out as soon as we can.
man i'm so excited to play and watch broodwar again
On March 26 2017 16:40 Esp1noza wrote: So what about the outdated network protocol of BW? Will it be like in sc2 where I played alot of 4v4 in the early days, never with lags?
It sounds like thats fixed with the 1.18 patch?
I assume so. According to the 1.18 thread:
Improved gameplay responsiveness during multiplayer by increasing turn rate to match LAN speeds over Battle.net
Damn this is a bit surreal....I remember even finding about TL for the first time. I used to play those 3v3 money maps pretty seriously with this one guy and we became good friends. I took a break and came back and he started playing 1v1 ladders and slowly got me into it and told me about TL so I could find out about builds and more about the proscene. That was 10 years ago now.
I'm curious about how ladders will work though once it gets up an running, is Blizzard allowing third-party ladders or are they going to introduce a new revamped ladder themselves? Will be curious to see how popular it is, will it just be a flash in the pan with nostalgia just bringing everyone back for a little while or will it bring about a resurgence of Brood War? Even at it's most popular it still had a very small competitive scene.
Guess I will be following this, hopefully some more information will come out soon.
Hadn't posted on TL in like 6 months, figures something about BW would break the dry spell.
On March 26 2017 16:38 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: Even the most die hard of BW traditionalists must be happy with this outcome.
No longer having to face the rainbow is a good outcome
After all the hyperbole from Jealous and duke91 that this would split the BW scene, to actually find the games are fully compatible with each other.Plus the great changes coming with 1.18.It's going to be a renaissance.
I really hope the pro scene will ban keybindings, its really cool to look at bisu's kb while he plays. Its kinda lame in comparison to look at a player's kb whose hands barely has to move or stretch.
On March 26 2017 17:07 AdelSC123 wrote: I really hope the pro scene will ban keybindings, its really cool to look at bisu's kb while he plays. Its kinda lame in comparison to look at a player's kb whose hands barely has to move or stretch.
Anything other than probe and pylon at P would make protoss imbalance.
Gameplay will be “precisely preserved from the original” Muta stacking Magic box Same unit pathfinding Control group limitations “And more”
Great, that means i'm not gonna play with the multi. Even sc2 is a very hard and demanding game for someone who really doesnt have much time to play, thus improve.
On March 26 2017 17:12 kajtarp wrote: Gameplay will be “precisely preserved from the original” Muta stacking Magic box Same unit pathfinding Control group limitations “And more”
Great, that means i'm not gonna play with the multi. Even sc2 is a very hard and demanding game for someone who really doesnt have much time to play, thus improve.
Wanting to improve at something without doing it - nice talent toi have.
Ok seriously guys. The announced stuff is better than expected. And even if people will cry about the sprite limitation removal, please just acknowledge that Blizzard did an amazing job so far. Maybe valks will be stronger now and it is kind of a balance related update, but keep calm and wait to see how it pans out first, before jumping on the hate train.
I was really scared that Blizzard would screw this up majorly, but if they keep their word they managed to make this as good as possible.
On March 26 2017 15:45 Piste wrote: keybinding will ruin the proscene
I don't think pros that have practiced for a decade with the original binds would swap them now. They also have insane mechanics regardless of how bad the binds are so I don't think they'll see that much improvement with different keys. We'll see though
Of course they will, you understand how much difference it will make when you can clumb all the hotkeys? I think this will make hard times for protoss which is the least mechanical race, since mechanics of z and t will increase
I have 10 years of xp playing BW and I'm not gonna change hotkeys. Im not gonna throw away 10 years worth of muscle memory.
It's fine for new players tho.
I'm glad blizzard introduced that, I've lost so many TvP engagements because i missed the 'o' key.
SlammerSC2 Dec 04, 2016 10:47 Thread: MVP disbands I think the best option at this point is to remake Broodwar in the SC2 engine and use that as the live game. The only reason i dont really watch broodwar streamers is because of the graphics.
On March 26 2017 17:23 wptlzkwjd wrote: "Same unit pathfinding"
So 20 years and a full rework later, my SCVs will STILL wander around the map aimlessly?!
I understand the pain given more modern game engines, but it's not like being an actual general involves absolute ease of control of every soldier... BW provides the most perfect balance between strategic and mechanical skills I have ever seen.
Watching the great players truly felt like observing the great artists or athletes.
On March 26 2017 17:12 kajtarp wrote: Gameplay will be “precisely preserved from the original” Muta stacking Magic box Same unit pathfinding Control group limitations “And more”
Great, that means i'm not gonna play with the multi. Even sc2 is a very hard and demanding game for someone who really doesnt have much time to play, thus improve.
I mean, if you want a game that's exactly that, you have SC2. Now both groups can be happy.
On March 26 2017 17:31 Arceus wrote: Where can I download BroodWar? Havent got the game installed since moving to win 10
Did you ever get it digitally on Battle.net? The game client should be available for download on there if you already own it digitally. However, that digital edition is currently unavailable for purchase since they're preparing to go F2P this coming week, so you can be patient and wait for that.
Pretty awesome from Blizzard to make it free to play. Should give the game some boost at least. I know most versions were pirated already but it's still a nice gesture.
On March 26 2017 17:18 chrisolo wrote: Ok seriously guys. The announced stuff is better than expected. And even if people will cry about the sprite limitation removal, please just acknowledge that Blizzard did an amazing job so far. Maybe valks will be stronger now and it is kind of a balance related update, but keep calm and wait to see how it pans out first, before jumping on the hate train.
I was really scared that Blizzard would screw this up majorly, but if they keep their word they managed to make this as good as possible.
Oh my god. Imagine the change this could have.
TvZ: valks can be used reliably to get air dominance, similar to corsairs in PvZ.
TvP: mass valks will actually be a counter to carriers. Imagine the interceptors all dying to some valks in the blink of an eye.
TvT: mass BCs and mass Wraiths in the late game are basically nerfed. Maybe players will opt for BCs over Wraiths more since Wraiths are more fragile
Doesn't look that bad for me? I just want decent servers and a revitalized pro scene, it can look just like broodwar for all I care as as long as it runs well on new computers.
On March 26 2017 17:18 chrisolo wrote: Ok seriously guys. The announced stuff is better than expected. And even if people will cry about the sprite limitation removal, please just acknowledge that Blizzard did an amazing job so far. Maybe valks will be stronger now and it is kind of a balance related update, but keep calm and wait to see how it pans out first, before jumping on the hate train.
I was really scared that Blizzard would screw this up majorly, but if they keep their word they managed to make this as good as possible.
Oh my god. Imagine the change this could have.
TvZ: valks can be used reliably to get air dominance, similar to corsairs in PvZ.
TvP: mass valks will actually be a counter to carriers. Imagine the interceptors all dying to some valks in the blink of an eye.
TvT: mass BCs and mass Wraiths in the late game are basically nerfed. Maybe players will opt for BCs over Wraiths more since Wraiths are more fragile
Lol you guys don't understand that they only fixed limitation bug, they didn't buffed valkyries which means you need to get like full group of them to feel the change and it's big commitment to get 12 of them. Valkyries suck ass against carriers by the way.
I'm glad this is coming out but I'm going to be honest here..
The BW remastered graphics look/feel like Starcraft beta compared to the original. And that's not a good thing, I watched all the graphics comparisons on the sc website, and every single one made me move the slider back to see the bw in it's old gfx style. The zerglings, tanks and goliaths look especially bad.
That's quite sad. Guess I'll be staying with the free version
Doesn't look that bad for me? I just want decent servers and a revitalized pro scene, it can look just like broodwar for all I care as as long as it runs well on new computers.
We have already decent servers though and the pro scene won't be coming back. Blizzard did one good step preventing that by suing back in the day.
I am disappointed, I expected more. I hope we at least get automining (I didn't see it get mentioned).
For me this is one more run of the campaign, maybe a few games using new matchmaking and it will end up watching BW tournaments if those will be using new graphics and observer modes.
On March 26 2017 18:07 -Archangel- wrote: I am disappointed, I expected more. I hope we at least get automining (I didn't see it get mentioned).
For me this is one more run of the campaign, maybe a few games using new matchmaking and it will end up watching BW tournaments if those will be using new graphics and observer modes.
It was mentioned - as something they for sure won't be implementing (automining). Thank god.
On March 26 2017 17:31 Arceus wrote: Where can I download BroodWar? Havent got the game installed since moving to win 10
Did you ever get it digitally on Battle.net? The game client should be available for download on there if you already own it digitally. However, that digital edition is currently unavailable for purchase since they're preparing to go F2P this coming week, so you can be patient and wait for that.
I'm glad for the BW fans. Will surely get into it a bit, but surely not as much as SC2 :p
Must says i'm a bit afraid for SC2 public,i don't think that will split that much in the end. I don't think ppl who were a bit turned off by graphics gonna enjoy "12 units &1 building ladder" really long, but in korea that's another thing. Although there too ppl might gave SC2 a retry.
But this gave me huge hopes, the hope that War3 is the next on the list =p
On March 26 2017 18:07 -Archangel- wrote: I am disappointed, I expected more. I hope we at least get automining (I didn't see it get mentioned).
For me this is one more run of the campaign, maybe a few games using new matchmaking and it will end up watching BW tournaments if those will be using new graphics and observer modes.
It was mentioned - as something they for sure won't be implementing (automining). Thank god.
It is basically confirmed as otherwise 1.16 replays won't be able to play. Basically nothing gameplay wise is changed!
On March 26 2017 18:07 -Archangel- wrote: I am disappointed, I expected more. I hope we at least get automining (I didn't see it get mentioned).
For me this is one more run of the campaign, maybe a few games using new matchmaking and it will end up watching BW tournaments if those will be using new graphics and observer modes.
On March 26 2017 17:18 chrisolo wrote: Ok seriously guys. The announced stuff is better than expected. And even if people will cry about the sprite limitation removal, please just acknowledge that Blizzard did an amazing job so far. Maybe valks will be stronger now and it is kind of a balance related update, but keep calm and wait to see how it pans out first, before jumping on the hate train.
I was really scared that Blizzard would screw this up majorly, but if they keep their word they managed to make this as good as possible.
Oh my god. Imagine the change this could have.
TvZ: valks can be used reliably to get air dominance, similar to corsairs in PvZ.
TvP: mass valks will actually be a counter to carriers. Imagine the interceptors all dying to some valks in the blink of an eye.
TvT: mass BCs and mass Wraiths in the late game are basically nerfed. Maybe players will opt for BCs over Wraiths more since Wraiths are more fragile
You'll still be able to do BC and Wraith just like usual, it wasnt super uncommon to see 3-4 valks mixed in regardless.
If you mass valks vs carriers you're going to lose lmao, you're suddenly stuck with a lot of supply that does absolutely nothing
TvZ some valks were used at times but not super extensively i think
Honestly I'm a little bit disappointed. I really hoped and thought there would be some kind of 'new player' mode which would make the whole UI less tedious. No one except oldschool BW players wants single building and 24 unit selection per hotkey group and no smartcasting. For (potentionally) new players and casual players a mode where this would have been made easier and more like SC2 would have been a great addition.
On March 26 2017 18:23 Danzo wrote: Anyone imagine the remastered version will have a smooth 60fps feel to it?
They probably can't change the framerate given that it's built on the original BW engine.
That's not even necessary , just intermediate frames. Tend to agree with people expressing underwhelming reaction. It leaves not much to your imagination, it's just terribly flat.
On March 26 2017 18:30 CruelZeratul wrote: Honestly I'm a little bit disappointed. I really hoped and thought there would be some kind of 'new player' mode which would make the whole UI less tedious. No one except oldschool BW players wants single building and 24 unit selection per hotkey group and no smartcasting. For (potentionally) new players and casual players a mode where this would have been made easier and more like SC2 would have been a great addition.
That defeats the entire purpose of the remaster. There's plenty of mods in SC2 that exclusively use BW units and values.
On March 26 2017 18:30 CruelZeratul wrote: No one except oldschool BW players wants single building and 24 unit selection per hotkey group and no smartcasting.
Man just try the game first. You just proved you never played it and you are disappointed that the changes are mostly for ppl who are actually playing the game rather than those who only complain about it.
On March 26 2017 18:30 CruelZeratul wrote: Honestly I'm a little bit disappointed. I really hoped and thought there would be some kind of 'new player' mode which would make the whole UI less tedious. No one except oldschool BW players wants single building and 24 unit selection per hotkey group and no smartcasting. For (potentionally) new players and casual players a mode where this would have been made easier and more like SC2 would have been a great addition.
The game developers deliberately limited the size of control groups for strategic purposes.
Warcraft 3 was released at 2003 with the same concept in mind. that's why this will not be changed.
On March 26 2017 17:18 chrisolo wrote: Ok seriously guys. The announced stuff is better than expected. And even if people will cry about the sprite limitation removal, please just acknowledge that Blizzard did an amazing job so far. Maybe valks will be stronger now and it is kind of a balance related update, but keep calm and wait to see how it pans out first, before jumping on the hate train.
I was really scared that Blizzard would screw this up majorly, but if they keep their word they managed to make this as good as possible.
Oh my god. Imagine the change this could have.
TvZ: valks can be used reliably to get air dominance, similar to corsairs in PvZ.
TvP: mass valks will actually be a counter to carriers. Imagine the interceptors all dying to some valks in the blink of an eye.
TvT: mass BCs and mass Wraiths in the late game are basically nerfed. Maybe players will opt for BCs over Wraiths more since Wraiths are more fragile
You'll still be able to do BC and Wraith just like usual, it wasnt super uncommon to see 3-4 valks mixed in regardless.
If you mass valks vs carriers you're going to lose lmao, you're suddenly stuck with a lot of supply that does absolutely nothing
TvZ some valks were used at times but not super extensively i think
Correct me if i'm wrong here but valks are explosive damage.They're pretty damn lousy against heavily armored capital ships but are good against light units like mutalisks and wraiths.Like i said before they have won me a couple of games in TVT against wraiths but they can still get picked off quick by cloaked wraiths focus firing if you're caught off guard or the opponent has spaced his wraiths out well.
.They're pricey and in TvZ you're better off spending those resources on vessels.The bug fix won't make much difference to how much the valkyrie is used.
Its funny how they promote gorgeous 4k ultra HD graphics, when even retard can see models are drawn lazy, blurred and without details. Blizzard did shitty job again... Maybe they need to stop ruining starcraft 1 once and for all.
On March 26 2017 17:18 chrisolo wrote: Ok seriously guys. The announced stuff is better than expected. And even if people will cry about the sprite limitation removal, please just acknowledge that Blizzard did an amazing job so far. Maybe valks will be stronger now and it is kind of a balance related update, but keep calm and wait to see how it pans out first, before jumping on the hate train.
I was really scared that Blizzard would screw this up majorly, but if they keep their word they managed to make this as good as possible.
Oh my god. Imagine the change this could have.
TvZ: valks can be used reliably to get air dominance, similar to corsairs in PvZ.
TvP: mass valks will actually be a counter to carriers. Imagine the interceptors all dying to some valks in the blink of an eye.
TvT: mass BCs and mass Wraiths in the late game are basically nerfed. Maybe players will opt for BCs over Wraiths more since Wraiths are more fragile
You'll still be able to do BC and Wraith just like usual, it wasnt super uncommon to see 3-4 valks mixed in regardless.
If you mass valks vs carriers you're going to lose lmao, you're suddenly stuck with a lot of supply that does absolutely nothing
TvZ some valks were used at times but not super extensively i think
Correct me if i'm wrong here but valks are explosive damage.They're pretty damn lousy against heavily armored capital ships but are good against light units like mutalisks and wraiths.Like i said before they have won me a couple of games in TVT against wraiths but they can still get picked off quick by cloaked wraiths focus firing if you're caught off guard or the opponent has spaced his wraiths out well.
.They're pricey and in TvZ you're better off spending those resources on vessels.The bug fix won't make much difference to how much the valkyrie is used.
It might make TVT air battles in the late game braindead. in that case, the sprite bug should be reintroduced.
On March 26 2017 18:30 CruelZeratul wrote: No one except oldschool BW players wants single building and 24 unit selection per hotkey group and no smartcasting.
Man just try the game first. You just proved you never played it and you are disappointed that the changes are mostly for ppl who are actually playing the game rather than those who only complain about it.
I played the game 10-15 years ago for the first time and I already didnt't like that.
On March 26 2017 18:30 CruelZeratul wrote: Honestly I'm a little bit disappointed. I really hoped and thought there would be some kind of 'new player' mode which would make the whole UI less tedious. No one except oldschool BW players wants single building and 24 unit selection per hotkey group and no smartcasting. For (potentionally) new players and casual players a mode where this would have been made easier and more like SC2 would have been a great addition.
The game developers deliberately limited the size of control groups for strategic purposes.
Warcraft 3 was released at 2003 with the same concept in mind. that's why this will not be changed.
I know why they want to keep it but I don't see why there shouldn't be an OPTIONAL second mode where only players who are using that mode play against each other with easier UI handling. If people want an influx of new competitive players something needs to be done to make it easier to get into the game because most people already find SC2 too much of a hassle to control.
On March 26 2017 18:40 _Animus_ wrote: Its funny how they promote gorgeous 4k ultra HD graphics, when even retard can see models are drawn lazy, blurred and without details. Blizzard did shitty job again... Maybe they need to stop ruining starcraft 1 once and for all.
The good thing is that we actually don't need to switch if you we don't like it. Because of cross-compability, and free BW we can simply stick to good old BW, but with matchmaking and no lag
I'm actually excited for this! Unpopular opinion probably but I was hoping for sim city adjacent buildings to be considered a wall just cuz it's a hassle to memorize that per map but that says more about my lazy self than anything. Great to see this support for BW (too little too late? better late than never)
On March 26 2017 18:40 _Animus_ wrote: Its funny how they promote gorgeous 4k ultra HD graphics, when even retard can see models are drawn lazy, blurred and without details. Blizzard did shitty job again... Maybe they need to stop ruining starcraft 1 once and for all.
any 4K HD game/movie looks shit on 23" monitor, you already said the reasons, because 23" is too small for 4K HD.
If you still don't believe that. pick any 4k HD picture, use the program "paint", try to make that picture smaller (from 100% to 50%).
On March 26 2017 18:50 Little-Chimp wrote: Matchmaking is sooooooooo welcome. Is this part of the free patch as well?
From what I understood, it is basically the same game. The "HD" graphics update is payed only. So you can play HD vs Non HD or even switch graphics mode within the game with a single button click according to the interview.
Not ready for this, what this game still evokes emotionally within me is just staggering. Been a part of my life for 20+ years now and has dominated my gaming experience throughout.
On March 26 2017 18:40 _Animus_ wrote: Its funny how they promote gorgeous 4k ultra HD graphics, when even retard can see models are drawn lazy, blurred and without details. Blizzard did shitty job again... Maybe they need to stop ruining starcraft 1 once and for all.
any 4K HD game/movie looks shit on 23" monitor, you already said the reasons, because 23" is too small for 4K HD.
If you still don't believe that. pick any 4k HD picture, use the program "paint", try to make that picture smaller (from 100% to 50%).
You mean blizzard made this game only for 23+ monitors and on their screen graphics looks non blurred and unexisting details start to appear? I doubt that. The good thing is as duke91 said its cross compatable so i can enjoy the starcraft that i like.
On March 26 2017 18:57 upro)wraith wrote: Vulture patrol micro with 'W' and siege tank mode with 'E'. that sounds pretty broken to me XD.
Yupp.. Hold micro, m control, patrol control isnt gonna be hard anymore. I dont even need to practice
Proxy fact 2 Starport TvZ is going to be nuts.
i cant literally see any advantage of it after playing this game for almost 10 years.i guess we will need to play and show me,hey eon look now i do what u do in 3 days and it took you 10 years.but i like this challenge.
On March 26 2017 18:57 upro)wraith wrote: Vulture patrol micro with 'W' and siege tank mode with 'E'. that sounds pretty broken to me XD.
Yupp.. Hold micro, m control, patrol control isnt gonna be hard anymore. I dont even need to practice
Proxy fact 2 Starport TvZ is going to be nuts.
i cant literally see any advantage of it after playing this game for almost 10 years.i guess we will need to play and show me,hey eon look now i do what u do in 3 days and it took you 10 years.but i like this challenge.
i also know some players that changed keys with razer keyboard,man we really love complain for complain,u actually dont need a patch to change your bw keys -__-,
If valkyries are bugged on one version and functional on the other, then how is it compatible?
But valkyries are not bugged.. They just cant move when they are launching rockets, they will shoot while stationary and empty their every 6 missiles before they're able to shoot again.
Just popped a game against IA, and the first thing that came out, (fellow BW fans will tell me if they found this ok)
They could make the worker rally point auto-harvest on mineral no? Yes this is a remove of one of the mechanics, but it's the same for all races, so this should be a balanced change.
I mean, even if i don't like it i understand the 12 units selection, i would argue to remove it if there wasn't balance problems, but still even i can understand this would change too much the way the game is played (although i played a bit with the selection hack (solo ofc) & it's still a mess to control & far from "deathball" but this feature? I don't think the removal of this would "break the mechanical pleasure" you guys have on this game, and it could make the game a bit more enjoyable for a bit more of people.
If valkyries are bugged on one version and functional on the other, then how is it compatible?
But valkyries are not bugged.. They just cant move when they are launching rockets, they will shoot while stationary and empty their every 6 missiles before they're able to shoot again.
The mechanic changed was the sprite limit, not anything to do with Valkyrie movement.
On March 26 2017 18:40 _Animus_ wrote: Its funny how they promote gorgeous 4k ultra HD graphics, when even retard can see models are drawn lazy, blurred and without details. Blizzard did shitty job again... Maybe they need to stop ruining starcraft 1 once and for all.
any 4K HD game/movie looks shit on 23" monitor, you already said the reasons, because 23" is too small for 4K HD.
If you still don't believe that. pick any 4k HD picture, use the program "paint", try to make that picture smaller (from 100% to 50%).
You mean blizzard made this game only for 23+ monitors and on their screen graphics looks non blurred and unexisting details start to appear? I doubt that. The good thing is as duke91 said its cross compatable so i can enjoy the starcraft that i like.
It's not blizzard fault. 4K HD resolution just sucks on small monitors. Like 7 people are trying to fit in a 5 seats car. I doubt it's for players. More likely for audience and viewers who are watching (twitch) on 50" TVs/Screens.
On March 26 2017 19:47 Thezzy wrote: Will the pathfinding still be the same? As in Dragoon AI? Hopefully the price won't be silly. Then again I got BW for free from the WoL CE.
the only thing im worried about is that the small foreign community may be divided even more between iccup and blizzard servers... i feel like the blizzard servers are going to be the place to play on initial release but who knows how many people will stick around after the hype wears off.. also to the people complaining that there was no mechanical changes and that the control groups are still limited to 12, please just stop
Is anyone else concerned about the higher resolution. I think the closeness to the battle caused by the low resolution was a major factor why the battles seem so intense. I am afraid that this will be gone :|
So if I already have the original purchased, I'll have to dish out more cash for the Remastered version, while someone who never bought the original game will get it for free and only have to buy the new Remastered version?
On March 26 2017 20:55 l00dak wrote: So if I already have the original purchased, I'll have to dish out more cash for the Remastered version, while someone who never bought the original game will get it for free and only have to buy the new Remastered version?
Yes. Lets be honest - for last 10 years people have been getting the game for free anyways, so it is good move by Blizzard to allow new players to download it legally and without much effort.
Do we know a full list of the "bug fixes" coming with 1.18? Is it anything that affects gameplay? Any ideas on what they're doing with their own anti-cheat or whether it will impact all the known launchers and stuff like that?
On March 26 2017 20:55 l00dak wrote: So if I already have the original purchased, I'll have to dish out more cash for the Remastered version, while someone who never bought the original game will get it for free and only have to buy the new Remastered version?
No. If you have the original purchased, it doesnt matter, it's now a free game next patch.
Remastered version seems to just be completely cosmetic, you can play the same game regardless if you pay for remastered.
On March 26 2017 19:31 Kenny_mk wrote: Just popped a game against IA, and the first thing that came out, (fellow BW fans will tell me if they found this ok)
They could make the worker rally point auto-harvest on mineral no? Yes this is a remove of one of the mechanics, but it's the same for all races, so this should be a balanced change.
I mean, even if i don't like it i understand the 12 units selection, i would argue to remove it if there wasn't balance problems, but still even i can understand this would change too much the way the game is played (although i played a bit with the selection hack (solo ofc) & it's still a mess to control & far from "deathball" but this feature? I don't think the removal of this would "break the mechanical pleasure" you guys have on this game, and it could make the game a bit more enjoyable for a bit more of people.
Mechanics are part of broodwar balance, automining would effect the balance since you need to expand more with different races than other, also macroing while attacking would be too easy and effect the defensive advantage.
Yeah finally a good decision. Hope all mechanics and design decisions will stay the same as in BW only with updated graphics. BW was a very great competitive game, yet highly demanding in mechanical skills.
Back to the roots Blizzard, best decision so far. Korea will love it.
On March 26 2017 15:45 Piste wrote: keybinding will ruin the proscene
I don't think pros that have practiced for a decade with the original binds would swap them now. They also have insane mechanics regardless of how bad the binds are so I don't think they'll see that much improvement with different keys. We'll see though
Of course they will, you understand how much difference it will make when you can clumb all the hotkeys? I think this will make hard times for protoss which is the least mechanical race, since mechanics of z and t will increase
former BW pros still use the BW keybindings for SC2, so your argument falls straight up flat here
I don't understand what your saying. yeah of course BW pros used keybindings for SC2, just like they will use for BW:Remastered. And I think it will effect racial balance.
On March 26 2017 20:55 l00dak wrote: So if I already have the original purchased, I'll have to dish out more cash for the Remastered version, while someone who never bought the original game will get it for free and only have to buy the new Remastered version?
No. If you have the original purchased, it doesnt matter, it's now a free game next patch.
Remastered version seems to just be completely cosmetic, you can play the same game regardless if you pay for remastered.
Having higher resolution and see more of the game on screen is not purely cosmetic.
So to address the elephant in the room ... I kinda think this going to end any interest in SC2 in Korea? I mean competitive-wise, Korea will probably go full-SC:R
On March 26 2017 22:16 Scaramanga wrote: I like the changes to battle net and the ability to switch between the two modes. Really dislike the graphics though.
which is why its awesome that you dont actually HAVE to buy/apply them. Amazing!
On March 26 2017 22:12 fLyiNgDroNe wrote: So to address the elephant in the room ... I kinda think this going to end any interest in SC2 in Korea? I mean competitive-wise, Korea will probably go full-SC:R
In case you haven't noticed, they already have gone full BW. The GSL final today had justs about 6k viewers on afreecatv. Compare that to the 150k+ to 300k ASL had from RO8 onwards.
teamliquid your site will become more popular now! ive always liked TL, ive been on it since the first TSL , but hear me wow i cant wait for this, i really cant.. thank you.. blizzard.. now just d2!
On March 26 2017 22:12 fLyiNgDroNe wrote: So to address the elephant in the room ... I kinda think this going to end any interest in SC2 in Korea? I mean competitive-wise, Korea will probably go full-SC:R
In case you haven't noticed, they already have gone full BW. The GSL final today had justs about 6k viewers on afreecatv. Compare that to the 150k+ to 300k ASL had from RO8 onwards.
i'm following the events closely. But dont say "full BW" when there are still leagues and matches. I meant complete switch, which would also negatively affect the foreign scene obviously.
On March 26 2017 17:18 chrisolo wrote: Ok seriously guys. The announced stuff is better than expected. And even if people will cry about the sprite limitation removal, please just acknowledge that Blizzard did an amazing job so far. Maybe valks will be stronger now and it is kind of a balance related update, but keep calm and wait to see how it pans out first, before jumping on the hate train.
I was really scared that Blizzard would screw this up majorly, but if they keep their word they managed to make this as good as possible.
Oh my god. Imagine the change this could have.
TvZ: valks can be used reliably to get air dominance, similar to corsairs in PvZ.
TvP: mass valks will actually be a counter to carriers. Imagine the interceptors all dying to some valks in the blink of an eye.
TvT: mass BCs and mass Wraiths in the late game are basically nerfed. Maybe players will opt for BCs over Wraiths more since Wraiths are more fragile
The problem was like only there in 4v4 games with mass air. Will not have any effect on 1v1.
On March 26 2017 22:12 fLyiNgDroNe wrote: So to address the elephant in the room ... I kinda think this going to end any interest in SC2 in Korea? I mean competitive-wise, Korea will probably go full-SC:R
In case you haven't noticed, they already have gone full BW. The GSL final today had justs about 6k viewers on afreecatv. Compare that to the 150k+ to 300k ASL had from RO8 onwards.
To be fair afreeca was never the main source of SC2 in Korea as GSL wasn't even streamed there for a long time before afreeca took over.
On March 26 2017 23:02 ArtyK wrote: Welp, time to beat the campaign without cheat codes like when i was 8 years old and coulnd'nt get past the 3rd mission?!!
This is great!
Be funny if for the campaign, they decided to introduce some of the experimental AI some coders have been working on rofl.
Honestly not a fan of the improved graphics. They are ok at best so it wasn't worth the effort imho. Things like zerglings and probes seem to be very exhausting for the eyes in movement in the updated version....
On March 26 2017 22:51 intotheheart wrote: Super hype. Now to get into SCBW and on a massive 40-game loss streak.
Meh I guess most people posting here would have a 40-game win streak since so many new people come.
I haven't played BW in way too long, and it's not like I was any good when I played. :D :D If you ever need someone to prove that watching SC means nothing when it comes to playing SC, I'm your man.
The introduction of matchmaking is great for the newcomers to SC:BW, and the fact that Blizzard is making SC:BW F2P is also great for the newcomers. They really did take the right steps listening to the SC:BW audience. And they kept the same SC:BW engine to remaster it. Wow, just wow.
On 4:3 vs 16by9. Note that you can play BW in widescreen with modifications. SSL casts this way. But they do not allow the players to use this, with the understanding that it affects how the game is played.
I am certain if the high level scene wanted to they can simply choose a 4:3 resolution. As for ladder, well, I guess we'll find out how much of a difference it makes. I won't be so bold as to claim it favours a certain race; I don't know. But clearly it affects something.
On March 27 2017 00:19 Crisium wrote: Hopefully they stay true to the original!
On 4:3 vs 16by9. Note that you can play BW in widescreen with modifications. SSL casts this way. But they do not allow the players to use this, with the understanding that it affects how the game is played.
I am certain if the high level scene wanted to they can simply choose a 4:3 resolution. As for ladder, well, I guess we'll find out how much of a difference it makes. I won't be so bold as to claim it favours a certain race; I don't know. But clearly it affects something.
Anyway, I look forward to this!
It doesn't affect a race as far as I'm aware but it's an adavantage for the one playing on 16 vs another player playing on 4:3.
On March 26 2017 14:37 jy_9876543210 wrote: Does newly made workers gather mineral/gas automatically? Can you select any number of units? or still 12?
Not interested if these mechanisms doesn't change. Maybe there'll be people saying "that is part of the game, it requires more micro, that's what makes it great." Alright, why don't they change the max number of units you can select to 1? That requires even more micro. GLHF.
Stick to simple games that you can manage buddy.
Although there were limitations in what you could originally do in Starcraft, it also at the same time speaks to its balance. This would not be the same game if a Zerg player could select all their units at once.
Whatever. When I play a strategy game, I don't want action games mixed in it. There are people enjoy repeating the same thing over and over again, but most people are bored by it.
Cool dude. I am not knocking what you enjoy but you're preaching to deaf ears if you come and complain in a topic about Brood War because most people here aren't bored by it.
Yes, many people here aren't bored by it, but only people here. Sorry, I didn't realize this is a BW alumni meeting. I used to love BW, but in my opinion there are a lot of room for improvements, and now here is a chance, but they didn't do any of it.
On March 26 2017 20:55 l00dak wrote: So if I already have the original purchased, I'll have to dish out more cash for the Remastered version, while someone who never bought the original game will get it for free and only have to buy the new Remastered version?
Yes. Lets be honest - for last 10 years people have been getting the game for free anyways, so it is good move by Blizzard to allow new players to download it legally and without much effort.
While it would be nice to have the option of downloading it without them, I'm also hoping we can download it withMuchEffOrt, assuming they both decide to play.
On March 26 2017 22:51 intotheheart wrote: Super hype. Now to get into SCBW and on a massive 40-game loss streak.
Meh I guess most people posting here would have a 40-game win streak since so many new people come.
All tl members should commit to losing their first 50 games on throwaway accounts to make newcomers feel like they're good and want to keep playing the game kek
On March 26 2017 14:37 jy_9876543210 wrote: Does newly made workers gather mineral/gas automatically? Can you select any number of units? or still 12?
Not interested if these mechanisms doesn't change. Maybe there'll be people saying "that is part of the game, it requires more micro, that's what makes it great." Alright, why don't they change the max number of units you can select to 1? That requires even more micro. GLHF.
Stick to simple games that you can manage buddy.
Although there were limitations in what you could originally do in Starcraft, it also at the same time speaks to its balance. This would not be the same game if a Zerg player could select all their units at once.
Whatever. When I play a strategy game, I don't want action games mixed in it. There are people enjoy repeating the same thing over and over again, but most people are bored by it.
Cool dude. I am not knocking what you enjoy but you're preaching to deaf ears if you come and complain in a topic about Brood War because most people here aren't bored by it.
Yes, many people here aren't bored by it, but only people here. Sorry, I didn't realize this is a BW alumni meeting. I used to love BW, but in my opinion there are a lot of room for improvements, and now here is a chance, but they didn't do any of it.
GET. OUT.
Im glad to see i wasnt the only one who has read this whole thread :D
I really hope the game actually plays well though. I know that AOE2HD had some issues but I wouldn't know what they would be since I never played that at a high level.
Jesus I just realized they will update everything about the game. The menu's, the UI, models etc. I used to love staring at those post Victory! or Defeat! screens, especially the Hydralisk atop the mound of skulls... I wonder if they will update those too.
I'll be honest im not the biggest fan of their graphical changes, even though I was looking forward to it. I'll probably get used to it. I'm looking forward to this overall, and im happy to see all my paranoia about blizzards intentions were proven to be just that, paranoia.
I guess grats to all bw people who are hyped. Never had a touch of bw and so i dont really care for it. However fun to see bw people happy (except for the "haha sc2 ded" people)
Honestly my view of Blizzivison was low for the last few years but they're handling this one right. Give them a few more months to polish the graphics (they look a bit plasticy as of now) and this would be well worth whatever I have to pay.
I thought the rumor of this was going to be BS, but its actually true. Just having matchmaking alone would make this worth it where it uses MMR and places you against people of equal skill. Just modern matchmaking and updated UI alone would make this easily worth it, so better graphics is just icing on the cake. Its also going to bring in new players to both this and SC 2. its a win win really
really not a fan of the new zergling look. trying to do too much with a small unit just makes it look confusing when it's massed. the rest of the changes look good though.
Happy, finlay devs understood what made SC to be so special. Now, the 2nd most logic step would be to make SCR a F2P with sellable skins, COOP and other features.
On March 27 2017 05:49 AndYouSayHeDoesntHac wrote: Happy, finlay devs understood what made SC to be so special. Now, the 2nd most logic step would be to make SCR a F2P with sellable skins, COOP and other features.
I think it's mostly to generate hype around BW before they sell SC:R.
On March 27 2017 06:20 A.Alm wrote: omg this will be epic. Someting about the shaddows or smth on the new sprites look wierd tho
Yeah I noticed most of the remastered units don't have shadows. Also there is no fog of war terrain in the minimap in most vids. I think they're still working on it!
I had hoped that they could find a way to combine the graphical goodness of SC2, beautiful maps and units, with BW.
I understand keeping the graphics in line with BW, and it does seem to have gone down well with BW fans, but SC2 players may not switch because it still looks dated, and moves in a janky way. It doesn't look as good as Supreme Commander 1 which came out in 2007.
Maybe between now and release they will improve this aspect, if so I will buy and play.
On March 27 2017 06:20 A.Alm wrote: omg this will be epic. Someting about the shaddows or smth on the new sprites look wierd tho
Yeah I noticed most of the remastered units don't have shadows. Also there is no fog of war terrain in the minimap in most vids. I think they're still working on it!
It's clear that the game is still in a state of development. They haven't even done remastered portraits for all the units yet.
The buildings need some shadows or detailing to ground them more and make them look less floaty. Some units need to darken or add shadows to make them pop out against the more detailed but visually busier terrain.
On March 27 2017 06:28 DeadByDawn wrote: I had hoped that they could find a way to combine the graphical goodness of SC2, beautiful maps and units, with BW.
I understand keeping the graphics in line with BW, and it does seem to have gone down well with BW fans, but SC2 players may not switch because it still looks dated, and moves in a janky way. It doesn't look as good as Supreme Commander 1 which came out in 2007.
Maybe between now and release they will improve this aspect, if so I will buy and play.
They'll definitely polish up the graphics between now and release, but it'll still be based on the same engine as the original BW to maintain compatibility with old replays as well as cross-game compatibility between the old BW and SC:R clients. Moving to another engine is out of the question with those goals in mind.
On March 27 2017 06:28 DeadByDawn wrote: I had hoped that they could find a way to combine the graphical goodness of SC2, beautiful maps and units, with BW.
I understand keeping the graphics in line with BW, and it does seem to have gone down well with BW fans, but SC2 players may not switch because it still looks dated, and moves in a janky way. It doesn't look as good as Supreme Commander 1 which came out in 2007.
Maybe between now and release they will improve this aspect, if so I will buy and play.
On March 27 2017 06:45 Waxangel wrote: Question for the people who are excited to comeback for StarCraft: Remastered: Why did you stop playing in the first place?
My old ass computer broke and decided to get a new one for the launch of SC2. Didn't like SC2, couldn't go back to BW cause windows 7 compatibility and all my friends quit by then. The proscene was fading cause of the lawsuit + deal with Blizzard . This might be it though and I'm extremely excited!
On March 27 2017 06:45 Waxangel wrote: Question for the people who are excited to comeback for StarCraft: Remastered: Why did you stop playing in the first place?
Didn't have internet for MP or later connection was not supported (latency issues). Instead i played vs AI. Eventually new generation of games came out and SC:BW was outdated and forgotten. Even then, SC was the cornerstone and most respected game in my gaming history.
SC2 finally and completely died for me since they buffed interceptors (since then I never played SC2) and now I am hyped that SCR will get me back to the franchise.
On March 27 2017 06:45 Waxangel wrote: Question for the people who are excited to comeback for StarCraft: Remastered: Why did you stop playing in the first place?
Lack of players/took too long to get games. I know once I got back to C- (I believe) it would take 5 minutes, sometimes more. I prefer to play games at night and there were 150 people on so sometimes it took longer. After it took 30 minutes I just said fuck it and quit since Fish is too tricky to get working and you have to grind custom games.
Looking forward to playing again with this remastered as a lot more people will be on :D and worst case scenario I can play on the Fish server if for some reason this one becomes as dead on the NA server (which I don't see happening).
On March 27 2017 06:45 Waxangel wrote: Question for the people who are excited to comeback for StarCraft: Remastered: Why did you stop playing in the first place?
Once Starcraft 2 was announced, pretty much all the people I played with moved on to SC2 when it came out. I wasn't very competitive in BW anyways even though I did play some ladders like iccup. I still went back a few times after though because of the UMS maps. All the tower defence and RPG maps I still loved. Would be cool if all of those came back as well. Used to spend hours with friends try to beat those TD and impossible micro maps together.
On March 27 2017 06:20 A.Alm wrote: omg this will be epic. Someting about the shaddows or smth on the new sprites look wierd tho
Yeah I noticed most of the remastered units don't have shadows. Also there is no fog of war terrain in the minimap in most vids. I think they're still working on it!
It's clear that the game is still in a state of development. They haven't even done remastered portraits for all the units yet.
The buildings need some shadows or detailing to ground them more and make them look less floaty. Some units need to darken or add shadows to make them pop out against the more detailed but visually busier terrain.
On March 27 2017 06:28 DeadByDawn wrote: I had hoped that they could find a way to combine the graphical goodness of SC2, beautiful maps and units, with BW.
I understand keeping the graphics in line with BW, and it does seem to have gone down well with BW fans, but SC2 players may not switch because it still looks dated, and moves in a janky way. It doesn't look as good as Supreme Commander 1 which came out in 2007.
Maybe between now and release they will improve this aspect, if so I will buy and play.
They'll definitely polish up the graphics between now and release, but it'll still be based on the same engine as the original BW to maintain compatibility with old replays as well as cross-game compatibility between the old BW and SC:R clients. Moving to another engine is out of the question with those goals in mind.
Ah, nice to hear! Battle.net ladder system will be sick.
On March 27 2017 06:45 Waxangel wrote: Question for the people who are excited to comeback for StarCraft: Remastered: Why did you stop playing in the first place?
Because I only have time to play casually, and the lack of matchmaking hurts the experience of casual multiplayer. I expect that if the leagues are the same as in SC2 (as I remember from WoL), I will end up around gold league. I have been Master's in SC2, I was decent once upon a time in BW ladder matches, but I don't want to put in the time and effort that is necessary to play at any level beyond casual. Finding a game lobby in current BW servers to play a casually is not enjoyable in my experience.
I'll probably play through the campaigns again, play a few seasons casually, and then stop. But I will have paid money to support a game that has been a large part of my life, and a company that has become a driving force behind the growth of a sport that I truly enjoy watching.
On March 27 2017 06:45 Waxangel wrote: Question for the people who are excited to comeback for StarCraft: Remastered: Why did you stop playing in the first place?
On March 27 2017 06:45 Waxangel wrote: Question for the people who are excited to comeback for StarCraft: Remastered: Why did you stop playing in the first place?
On March 27 2017 06:45 Waxangel wrote: Question for the people who are excited to comeback for StarCraft: Remastered: Why did you stop playing in the first place?
I moved overseas and wasn't able to play with my clan pals due to high ping. We also went into work/uni and didn't have time where we can all get together.
On March 27 2017 08:01 Shardex wrote: I wonder if quirks like shown at 27:17 in this video by Day9 will survive into the remastered edition: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWvoMrYCQBU
I guess it won't be a problem as long as collision boxes are untouched or am i wrong?
I am extremely excited by this. It's the best news ever and something I have been dreaming about for a very long time. Besides, my friends who play SC2, and never played SC BW are now thinking about giving it a try regardless of the difficulty of the mecanics. I think it's wonderful that they stayed faithful to the original design and I think they did a wonderful job in improving the overall look of the game. When I compare the current aspect of classic bw with the remastered units and buildings using the - very useful - tool of the website, I think it's wonderful. I have an issue with zerg buildings though, and the creep as well. The creep looks too basic in comparison with the new shiny and HD look of the zerg buildings. Also, when it comes to protoss, I fucking love the details of the buildings (like little drawings on the nexus), but I fear that somehow the new probes will make my eyes tired and that I will have more difficulties to notice them indiviudaly apart from the rest of the map/tileset. Same goes for a couple terran units such as the Tanks, which look great, but I don't know the details of their tracks makes it a bit confusing. Or the goliaths which somehow end up looking less reckognizable. I definitely need to try it out before I can offer a proper judgement. And maybe my eyes are just too used to the appearance of the game from years and years of playing it. I just need time to adjust and then I will probably have a hard time going back to the classic look. I love the improvement of the map features (grass, rocks, buildings, structures, water, and so on). It looks exactly like the original features, but more accurate. Now I already go back to the classic designs and say "no it's impossible it can't be so uggly". It's the first time of my life that I realize that, yes, brood war looks old and full of pixels. First time too that I understand my sc2 friends not being able to play it because it's "too uggly". Don't get me wrong I love the way this game looks, but I can notice how old it looks now for the first time! Awesome job by Blizzard anyways ! Can't wait to have new videos released to see new details!
On March 27 2017 06:45 Waxangel wrote: Question for the people who are excited to comeback for StarCraft: Remastered: Why did you stop playing in the first place?
for me I am excited for a potential reboost of the social/population environment to play starcraft both competitively and not I stopped playing cause ICCup ladder was frustrating for me as I never accepted to play FE vs Z couldnt really progress past B- (I tried it at one point long time ago, I know its stronger/nearly-"required" but I dont like lol) and I guess off ladder environment not that great on ICCup? idk, feel like I would play again even if there were no remaster coming but havent for more than a year. I love experimenting with odd strats^^ but it just makes laddering more frustrating ofc -_- also typically dont like to grind that many games in short time so it makes climbing ladder more difficult. I might have lost interest in climbing this ladder
On March 27 2017 06:45 Waxangel wrote: Question for the people who are excited to comeback for StarCraft: Remastered: Why did you stop playing in the first place?
when korean pro scene died and SC2 was about to be released a lot of people quit BW. main reason i stopped playing was that a lot of others also stopped. speaking of pro scene, i really hope that it flourishes because following the pro scene was almost just as fun as playing for me.
On March 27 2017 06:45 Waxangel wrote: Question for the people who are excited to comeback for StarCraft: Remastered: Why did you stop playing in the first place?
Because Sc2 really hurt/almost killed the foreign scene and everyone followed the hype of sc2 naturally.
This will possibly revive bw back to it's glory days, hence we are back. I even found recent Mongragon and Strelock replays from iccup, what does that tell you. They haven't played in years.
A resurgence is coming. Also I don' think key bindings will "break" the game as others suggested. The idiosyncrasies and pathfinding is what makes broodwar amazing. Removing these elements or expanding control groups would break the beautiful balance. I would not expect any non BW vets to understand that. It's like suggesting we change chess. It's already perfect.
Lets be honest this is going to bring the old school broodwar players back and koreans. Might be some SC2 people dabbling in but they will soon die off and the true fans will remain.
On March 27 2017 08:49 TheDougler wrote: So will this be on Battle.Net 2.0 or 1.0?
It'll arguably be on B.net 2.0 if you consider that to be the current Blizzard launcher with connection to your B.net 2.0 friends list, but looks like they're maintaining core B.net 1.0 aesthetics and features such as chat channels and named custom games and lobbies. And somehow it'll be connected to B.net 1.0 considering they want cross-game compatibility with the original BW.
On March 27 2017 08:49 TheDougler wrote: So will this be on Battle.Net 2.0 or 1.0?
It'll arguably be on B.net 2.0 if you consider that to be the current Blizzard launcher with connection to your B.net 2.0 friends list, but looks like they're maintaining core B.net 1.0 aesthetics and features such as chat channels and named custom games and lobbies. And somehow it'll be connected to B.net 1.0 considering they want cross-game compatibility with the original BW.
I'd consider that 2.0 Stoked for that honestly.
I mostly define 2.0 as being able to see my friends list if I'm on WoW, and 1.0 as being able to see my friends list if on Diablo 2.
On March 27 2017 08:49 TheDougler wrote: So will this be on Battle.Net 2.0 or 1.0?
It'll arguably be on B.net 2.0 if you consider that to be the current Blizzard launcher with connection to your B.net 2.0 friends list, but looks like they're maintaining core B.net 1.0 aesthetics and features such as chat channels and named custom games and lobbies. And somehow it'll be connected to B.net 1.0 considering they want cross-game compatibility with the original BW.
I'd consider that 2.0 Stoked for that honestly.
I mostly define 2.0 as being able to see my friends list if I'm on WoW, and 1.0 as being able to see my friends list if on Diablo 2.
In that case, it's definitely 2.0. Hopefully D2 and WC3 will eventually get their turns to join us in the 2.0 friends list and launcher.
On March 27 2017 06:45 Waxangel wrote: Question for the people who are excited to comeback for StarCraft: Remastered: Why did you stop playing in the first place?
Honestly, I loved BW, but SC2 was the most fun I have ever had in a game to date. I think as with a lot of people, SC2 just stopped being special somewhere around when HotS came out. Since then I've wanted so badly to get back into BW, but there wasn't much incentive. The current ladder system isn't very friendly to new(er) players.
A new game - Blizzard-run ladder? Updated campaign? It's the game I've been longing for, but Blizzard just made it accessible. I can't wait.
Looks very clean. I'll play that. Yeah BW was great, though i liken it to watching old anime or cartoons where the mouths move so incorrectly..i know its great but i just can't do it anymore. My mind has seen better, and to go back i can't not ocd about it.
This makes me far more interested than i thought id be.
Very exciting news. I wonder if this will raise the scene even more in Korea. There was a rumor they would be doing this for D2 as well. I hope is true.
For years I was thinking how this could be possible thinking people would not mind paying for something like this. I hope Blizz finds a way to get some micro transactions going just to get them interested in further promoting this game and even an esports scene abroad. RTS is practically dead to devs since it's really tough to compete with other game's profitability. Millenials will play any game as long as it's marketed the right way
God it is so hard to enjoy Starcraft with worker genocide every game... killing workers is so amazing to watch. David Kim could really do a number on SC1.
On March 27 2017 06:45 Waxangel wrote: Question for the people who are excited to comeback for StarCraft: Remastered: Why did you stop playing in the first place?
1. Life got in the way. I am a busier, less game-playing man than I was in my youth. I was never particularly good at BW, much as I did enjoy it, and I simply didn't have the commitment necessary to keep at a decent level of play. But I did still enjoy streams sometimes, but less so recently - see (2) below. 2. A game is more than just gameplay, and frankly without the pro scene much of the magic of BW is lost. Some people enjoy the Afreeca scene; I do not, because it is a shadow of what these players were in their progaming years. This, perhaps, is a catalyst for a revival. At the least it's a genuine chance since the opening exists and the infrastructure is also mostly there. Sure, LoL and other such absurdly popular games did sideline RTS in general, Starcraft included, but I do not believe that BW needs to be the most popular competitive game in the world to be a wildly successful progaming phenomenon.
I grew up with BW and have good memories of the game. When I was a kid I had all the time to practice a game. Today the hype is nothing more than nostalgia. I think people forget how frustrating it is without mbs, unlimited unit selection etc. I can play 2-3 games per week and just the warm up for a game like BW takes more games.
I love watching BW pros play but just the thought of sending each worker to a mineral patch is exhasuting.
But props to Blizzard for doing this for the community. Not like anyone actually expected this!
It would be really awesome if Blizzard invited a bunch of BW pros to play showmatches on the remastered game at Blizzcon this year, with the following year a full on tournament finals. Too much to hope for?
On March 27 2017 06:45 Waxangel wrote: Question for the people who are excited to comeback for StarCraft: Remastered: Why did you stop playing in the first place?
A combination of blizzard trying hard to kill the game to make space for sc2, death of the pro scene, lack of players and DotA 2.
On March 27 2017 15:42 papaz wrote: I grew up with BW and have good memories of the game. When I was a kid I had all the time to practice a game. Today the hype is nothing more than nostalgia. I think people forget how frustrating it is without mbs, unlimited unit selection etc. I can play 2-3 games per week and just the warm up for a game like BW takes more games.
I love watching BW pros play but just the thought of sending each worker to a mineral patch is exhasuting.
But props to Blizzard for doing this for the community. Not like anyone actually expected this!
Playing Brood War is at least an hour-a-day commitment if you aren't in the mood for just losing and losing. But I'm not a youngun anymore; having a good, productive 1-4 hours of free time for gaming every single day doesn't happen. And while it is for the best, it does mean that playing Starcraft isn't worth it. Watching streams is great for getting much of the experience while not having to have that kind of commitment.
But much of what makes the game tough to play is what makes it a great game to watch, which is a difficult dilemma to reconcile.
On March 27 2017 15:42 papaz wrote: I grew up with BW and have good memories of the game. When I was a kid I had all the time to practice a game. Today the hype is nothing more than nostalgia. I think people forget how frustrating it is without mbs, unlimited unit selection etc. I can play 2-3 games per week and just the warm up for a game like BW takes more games.
I love watching BW pros play but just the thought of sending each worker to a mineral patch is exhasuting.
But props to Blizzard for doing this for the community. Not like anyone actually expected this!
Playing Brood War is at least an hour-a-day commitment if you aren't in the mood for just losing and losing. But I'm not a youngun anymore; having a good, productive 1-4 hours of free time for gaming every single day doesn't happen. And while it is for the best, it does mean that playing Starcraft isn't worth it. Watching streams is great for getting much of the experience while not having to have that kind of commitment.
But much of what makes the game tough to play is what makes it a great game to watch, which is a difficult dilemma to reconcile.
1v1 BW can be really exhausting and stressing experience sometimes, that's why I prefer to play league atm. It would be really cool if they could make a 3v3 hunters matchmaking.
On March 27 2017 15:43 razedbywolves wrote: It would be really awesome if Blizzard invited a bunch of BW pros to play showmatches on the remastered game at Blizzcon this year, with the following year a full on tournament finals. Too much to hope for?
Definitely not, this was actually the conclusion I first came to when I saw they're planning for a Summer release date. Gives it enough time to be out there and have some tournaments starting up in time for November Blizzcon showmatch/tourny!
If this game is just re-textures over the originals, with the same 2D engine intact, it makes me wonder what the tech requirements will be. I wonder if this is something you could run on a laptop or an older rig?
Tnx for that. If that works well and it is not a hassle to find games I might totally go back to BW and forget Sc2 exists. I don't like BW UI and I will be bad because of it, but with good matchmaking I will be playing vs others that are also bad at using old UI.
On March 28 2017 05:07 j2choe wrote: If this game is just re-textures over the originals, with the same 2D engine intact, it makes me wonder what the tech requirements will be. I wonder if this is something you could run on a laptop or an older rig?
"[QnA] "Your PC can easily run StarCraft HD if it can run Hearthstone." Brood War remaster as discussed by the devs."
Probably the smallest budget has been spent for make this HD graphics... hidden behind a giant smog.
Mecanisms are still burried 2 meters under the earth which highly make flash ' players unbeatable.. At least on SC2 i can play zerg for win every match up i wanna.
On March 28 2017 05:07 j2choe wrote: If this game is just re-textures over the originals, with the same 2D engine intact, it makes me wonder what the tech requirements will be. I wonder if this is something you could run on a laptop or an older rig?
My very first blog on TL was an open love letter to the SC2 community, about how much I loved the community and the game. It was 2013.
Many things have changed since then, but my love for SC stayed the same. In fact, it has driven me to reach for new heights and achieve my dreams. I partly owe it to the awesomeness that is TL.net.
Remastered in my personal opinion is like a love letter to the StarCraft community at large and it really warms my heart to see so much hype and enthusiasm around the announcement. Thank you all for being absolutely awesome!
My very first blog on TL was an open love letter to the SC2 community, about how much I loved the community and the game. It was 2013.
Many things have changed since then, but my love for SC stayed the same. In fact, it has driven me to reach for new heights and achieve my dreams. I partly owe it to the awesomeness that is TL.net.
Remastered in my personal opinion is like a love letter to the StarCraft community at large and it really warms my heart to see so much hype and enthusiasm around the announcement. Thank you all for being absolutely awesome!
Just wanted to say that starcraft.com looks awesome!
On March 27 2017 06:45 Waxangel wrote: Question for the people who are excited to comeback for StarCraft: Remastered: Why did you stop playing in the first place?
time and lack of a big community anymore. i hop on iccup and there are at max maybe 15-20 games live at any given time, and maybe 2-3 1v1 games at my skill level. I miss the days when I could hop on at any time and join one of several channels with people I knew I could hang with.
day of the announcement, i got messaged by several former bw buddies right away haha
On March 28 2017 05:07 j2choe wrote: If this game is just re-textures over the originals, with the same 2D engine intact, it makes me wonder what the tech requirements will be. I wonder if this is something you could run on a laptop or an older rig?
On March 28 2017 05:07 j2choe wrote: If this game is just re-textures over the originals, with the same 2D engine intact, it makes me wonder what the tech requirements will be. I wonder if this is something you could run on a laptop or an older rig?
On March 27 2017 06:45 Waxangel wrote: Question for the people who are excited to comeback for StarCraft: Remastered: Why did you stop playing in the first place?
time and lack of a big community anymore. i hop on iccup and there are at max maybe 15-20 games live at any given time, and maybe 2-3 1v1 games at my skill level. I miss the days when I could hop on at any time and join one of several channels with people I knew I could hang with.
day of the announcement, i got messaged by several former bw buddies right away haha
Problem i have with b.net 2.0 is lack of channel bots, nothing quite like filling a downtime in a channel dicking around with stealthbot
On March 28 2017 05:07 j2choe wrote: If this game is just re-textures over the originals, with the same 2D engine intact, it makes me wonder what the tech requirements will be. I wonder if this is something you could run on a laptop or an older rig?
On March 28 2017 05:07 j2choe wrote: If this game is just re-textures over the originals, with the same 2D engine intact, it makes me wonder what the tech requirements will be. I wonder if this is something you could run on a laptop or an older rig?
I can't wait to play friendly games like in the old days! Right now, BW is all about iccup for foreigners and all you can find is ladder games and sometime 3x3 bgh/hunters.
It would be nice to make battle.net great again with similar region like SC2. Count on me to make a lot of Zero Clutter, Fastest, BGH, Race Wars, 2v2v2v2bgh, Zone controls, etc when BW:R will be out!
One last thing, I hope blizzard won't restrict the number of account that we can make.
I think some people forget that widescreen mode means a longer way your mouse needs to travel to get to the edge so that you can scroll. Is that then really beneficial from a pure gameplay perspective?
On March 28 2017 13:44 duke91 wrote: I think some people forget that widescreen mode means a longer way your mouse needs to travel to get to the edge so that you can scroll. Is that then really beneficial from a pure gameplay perspective?
It also means you have to scroll less because you can already see more.
On March 28 2017 13:44 duke91 wrote: I think some people forget that widescreen mode means a longer way your mouse needs to travel to get to the edge so that you can scroll. Is that then really beneficial from a pure gameplay perspective?
Psh real men use arrow keys to scroll and do spells though the minimap.
I'm pumped to bring back 20 minutes no rush games.
On March 28 2017 07:56 Meru wrote: ♥
My very first blog on TL was an open love letter to the SC2 community, about how much I loved the community and the game. It was 2013.
Many things have changed since then, but my love for SC stayed the same. In fact, it has driven me to reach for new heights and achieve my dreams. I partly owe it to the awesomeness that is TL.net.
Remastered in my personal opinion is like a love letter to the StarCraft community at large and it really warms my heart to see so much hype and enthusiasm around the announcement. Thank you all for being absolutely awesome!
Really awesome work on the website. You kept that old charm while making it very fresh, very challenging feat.
On March 28 2017 15:35 Dental Floss wrote: Any word on hotkeys? I fully switched to dvorak and I cannot describe the hell of [S]electing larva in this layout.
WOW Awesome news. Everything BW needed for a revival, those are all perfect adjustments. Hopefully it will attract alot of new players to make it easier to catch a game once again.
On March 28 2017 05:07 j2choe wrote: If this game is just re-textures over the originals, with the same 2D engine intact, it makes me wonder what the tech requirements will be. I wonder if this is something you could run on a laptop or an older rig?
If you have a PC from the last decade you'll be fine at at least 1080p.
I know that BW fans will kill me, but there will be some kind of Grid configuration for hotkeys? I know that's not really popular here, but that's the kind of quality of life improvement that can attract BW noob like me.
On March 28 2017 18:57 Wertheron wrote: I know that BW fans will kill me, but there will be some kind of Grid configuration for hotkeys? I know that's not really popular here, but that's the kind of Quality of Life improvement that can attract BW noob like me.
Nah dude, I think it is a good idea. I am not gonna kill you. It personally wouldn't help me as I have hotkeys streamlined in my memory from playing without grid configuration for years but I don't see why it wouldn't be a nice addition for players who aren't familiar with it. But I am gonna kill you for capitalizing quality of life.
On March 28 2017 18:57 Wertheron wrote: I know that BW fans will kill me, but there will be some kind of Grid configuration for hotkeys? I know that's not really popular here, but that's the kind of Quality of Life improvement that can attract BW noob like me.
Custom hotkeys will indeed be a thing! Really important for people who want to play both starcrafts!
On March 28 2017 18:57 Wertheron wrote: I know that BW fans will kill me, but there will be some kind of Grid configuration for hotkeys? I know that's not really popular here, but that's the kind of Quality of Life improvement that can attract BW noob like me.
Custom hotkeys will indeed be a thing! Really important for people who want to play both starcrafts!
I will definitely use the same setup as in sc2.
I adapted my hotkeys in sc2 the same I have in german bw xD
On March 28 2017 18:57 Wertheron wrote: I know that BW fans will kill me, but there will be some kind of Grid configuration for hotkeys? I know that's not really popular here, but that's the kind of Quality of Life improvement that can attract BW noob like me.
Custom hotkeys will indeed be a thing! Really important for people who want to play both starcrafts!
I will definitely use the same setup as in sc2.
I adapted my hotkeys in sc2 the same I have in german bw xD
Yeah that just makes sense, otherwise your muscle memory will betray you.
On March 28 2017 18:57 Wertheron wrote: I know that BW fans will kill me, but there will be some kind of Grid configuration for hotkeys? I know that's not really popular here, but that's the kind of Quality of Life improvement that can attract BW noob like me.
Nah dude, I think it is a good idea. I am not gonna kill you. It personally wouldn't help me as I have hotkeys streamlined in my memory from playing without grid configuration for years but I don't see why it wouldn't be a nice addition for players who aren't familiar with it. But I am gonna kill you for capitalizing quality of life.
Thanks ^^, I don't want to die, so I edited the capitals (never know when to put capitals in English).
On March 28 2017 18:57 Wertheron wrote: I know that BW fans will kill me, but there will be some kind of Grid configuration for hotkeys? I know that's not really popular here, but that's the kind of Quality of Life improvement that can attract BW noob like me.
Nah dude, I think it is a good idea. I am not gonna kill you. It personally wouldn't help me as I have hotkeys streamlined in my memory from playing without grid configuration for years but I don't see why it wouldn't be a nice addition for players who aren't familiar with it. But I am gonna kill you for capitalizing quality of life.
Thanks ^^, I don't want to die, so I edited the capitals (never know when to put capitals in English).
On March 28 2017 18:57 Wertheron wrote: I know that BW fans will kill me, but there will be some kind of Grid configuration for hotkeys? I know that's not really popular here, but that's the kind of Quality of Life improvement that can attract BW noob like me.
Custom hotkeys will indeed be a thing! Really important for people who want to play both starcrafts!
I will definitely use the same setup as in sc2.
I adapted my hotkeys in sc2 the same I have in german bw xD
Yeah that just makes sense, otherwise your muscle memory will betray you.
I did the same as well, but I struggled as I couldn't put Siege and Unsiege on the same key annoyingly.
On March 28 2017 18:57 Wertheron wrote: I know that BW fans will kill me, but there will be some kind of Grid configuration for hotkeys? I know that's not really popular here, but that's the kind of Quality of Life improvement that can attract BW noob like me.
Custom hotkeys will indeed be a thing! Really important for people who want to play both starcrafts!
I will definitely use the same setup as in sc2.
I adapted my hotkeys in sc2 the same I have in german bw xD
Yeah that just makes sense, otherwise your muscle memory will betray you.
That was exactly the reason. For my first run in WoL campaign I used the grid for hotkeys. But after playing bw again, I was losing every fight because all my units refused to attack when clicking "t" xD
On March 28 2017 18:57 Wertheron wrote: I know that BW fans will kill me, but there will be some kind of Grid configuration for hotkeys? I know that's not really popular here, but that's the kind of Quality of Life improvement that can attract BW noob like me.
Custom hotkeys will indeed be a thing! Really important for people who want to play both starcrafts!
I will definitely use the same setup as in sc2.
I adapted my hotkeys in sc2 the same I have in german bw xD
Yeah that just makes sense, otherwise your muscle memory will betray you.
I did the same as well, but I struggled as I couldn't put Siege and Unsiege on the same key annoyingly.
Yeah, that's so annoying that you can't use the same key twice in sc2. It doesn't even matter, if it's a complete different unit. I remember for Zerg I wanted to use a hotkey but I had to choose because some random Protoss unit wouldn't react anymore to that key O_o I mean, come one. Even bw can use same hotkeys for different units within one race. Otherwise it'd be easy to avoid re-rallying my hatchery by accident when I want to build a defilier but no new larva has spawned xD
Edit (for clarification): "Sammelpunkt festlegen" and "zu Vergifter morphen"
I guess my summer will be occupied with Brood War. Can't wait to play some UMS with old buddies and try my hand at being a bit competitive in ladder, even if I'll be D rank my whole life.
On March 28 2017 22:25 PhoenixVoid wrote: I guess my summer will be occupied with Brood War. Can't wait to play some UMS with old buddies and try my hand at being a bit competitive in ladder, even if I'll be D rank my whole life.
Yeah dude i actually forgot but man UMS games were really fun back in the day. Expect people to make some new games and content as well! More people means more interest and I personally feel the mapmaker is not very hard to use for beginners.
I must admit my hype levels are pretty damn high. Mostly because of a mass return to BW, new players picking the game up and hopefully helping RTS come back to a more popular place within gaming.
The thing I'm happiest about is the SD game working with the HD version. Means I can continue to play the SD version and my friends will be tempted to try out HD and we can play together.
Really impressed how Blizzard is rolling this thing out. About as good as I could have hoped.
On March 29 2017 10:44 vesicular wrote: The thing I'm happiest about is the SD game working with the HD version. Means I can continue to play the SD version and my friends will be tempted to try out HD and we can play together.
Really impressed how Blizzard is rolling this thing out. About as good as I could have hoped.
On March 26 2017 14:22 lichter wrote: With Blizzard keen to improve BW functionality and play experience, what other features, add-ons, or bugs do you think Blizzard should add to the game?
How about an in-game radio station stream for each faction, featuring:
interviews with prominent players
live ladder and tournament updates presented with extreme bias, praising ones own and belittling the success of the other factions
I'm really interested if BW leagues will enforce 4:3 aspect or if they will allow widsecreen. Which site should i bookmark to find out about this asap?
Have I missed any rumour related to deepmind and SC:BW?
Hey guys. What you think about new ladder system. We play iccup, and this platform very usefull to organisation some clanleagues (making brackets, upload replays ant etc). SCBW knowing as improve team-community with personal cites, clanwars, matchlist checking
tbh i rather see new ones instead of remastered games.... so i would have rather had a starcraft 3 wich (i guess) would have alot more people pumped for the game...
On March 26 2017 14:22 lichter wrote: With Blizzard keen to improve BW functionality and play experience, what other features, add-ons, or bugs do you think Blizzard should add to the game?
On March 29 2017 22:55 KOtical wrote: tbh i rather see new ones instead of remastered games.... so i would have rather had a starcraft 3 wich (i guess) would have alot more people pumped for the game...
On March 29 2017 22:55 KOtical wrote: tbh i rather see new ones instead of remastered games.... so i would have rather had a starcraft 3 wich (i guess) would have alot more people pumped for the game...
Regardless Team 1 (the RTS team) and the Classic team are two completely different entities. Even if you wanted a new game, this Remaster didn't take up time and resources that would have spent on a new game.
On March 29 2017 22:55 KOtical wrote: tbh i rather see new ones instead of remastered games.... so i would have rather had a starcraft 3 wich (i guess) would have alot more people pumped for the game...
Regardless Team 1 (the RTS team) and the Classic team are two completely different entities. Even if you wanted a new game, this Remaster didn't take up time and resources that would have spent on a new game.
I'm honestly not ready for them to jump into a new RTS. I love SC2 and I'm so pumped about SC:R and both games still have a lot of life in them. On top of that, as much as I love SC2, I think there are so many lessons that can be learned from that game's progression and development over the years and there are probably more lessons Blizzard can learn by continuing to focus on improving SC2, as long as there is still a viable competitive scene at least.
That said, if they do decide to make another RTS, I think it's only fair Warcraft 4 get's a go.
On March 29 2017 22:55 KOtical wrote: tbh i rather see new ones instead of remastered games.... so i would have rather had a starcraft 3 wich (i guess) would have alot more people pumped for the game...
Regardless Team 1 (the RTS team) and the Classic team are two completely different entities. Even if you wanted a new game, this Remaster didn't take up time and resources that would have spent on a new game.
I'm honestly not ready for them to jump into a new RTS. I love SC2 and I'm so pumped about SC:R and both games still have a lot of life in them. On top of that, as much as I love SC2, I think there are so many lessons that can be learned from that game's progression and development over the years and there are probably more lessons Blizzard can learn by continuing to focus on improving SC2, as long as there is still a viable competitive scene at least.
That said, if they do decide to make another RTS, I think it's only fair Warcraft 4 get's a go.
On March 29 2017 22:55 KOtical wrote: tbh i rather see new ones instead of remastered games.... so i would have rather had a starcraft 3 wich (i guess) would have alot more people pumped for the game...
Regardless Team 1 (the RTS team) and the Classic team are two completely different entities. Even if you wanted a new game, this Remaster didn't take up time and resources that would have spent on a new game.
I'm honestly not ready for them to jump into a new RTS. I love SC2 and I'm so pumped about SC:R and both games still have a lot of life in them. On top of that, as much as I love SC2, I think there are so many lessons that can be learned from that game's progression and development over the years and there are probably more lessons Blizzard can learn by continuing to focus on improving SC2, as long as there is still a viable competitive scene at least.
That said, if they do decide to make another RTS, I think it's only fair Warcraft 4 get's a go.
I mean regardless, its probably still a long way to go. 3 major directors for Blizzard, Dustin Browder, Eric Dodds, and Tom Chilton just left their respective teams.....last October. SC2 took 7 years to develop, so we're not going to see another one for a long time. They said they're going to update and maintain SC2 for years to come..... I hope they keep their word and we dont get D3 treatment. (we have microtransactions so thats doubtful, but the fear still comes to mind)
So I haven't had the time to skim through this forum topic but... had it ever crossed anyone's mind that the remaster of SC1 may lead up to a possible SC1 expansion or perhaps another type of add on to SC1 to bring the original game back to life? Think about it.. perhaps blizzard has finally realized that this was in fact one of theiR better games and decided to remaster the graphics in preparation for a Brood War 2?
Just a thought.. but it seems to make sense in a way given the fact that their even thinking about HD graphics and improved classic bnet.
On March 30 2017 02:49 BunkerPush wrote: So I haven't had the time to skim through this forum topic but... had it ever crossed anyone's mind that the remaster of SC1 may lead up to a possible SC1 expansion or perhaps another type of add on to SC1 to bring the original game back to life? Think about it.. perhaps blizzard has finally realized that this was in fact one of theiR better games and decided to remaster the graphics in preparation for a Brood War 2?
Just a thought.. but it seems to make sense in a way given the fact that their even thinking about HD graphics and improved classic bnet.
What is the point of an expansions when it could not tell the main story as the events of such is known.
If they would want to add more side missions, I would expect more Nova type DLCs for SC2 instead.
On March 30 2017 02:49 BunkerPush wrote: So I haven't had the time to skim through this forum topic but... had it ever crossed anyone's mind that the remaster of SC1 may lead up to a possible SC1 expansion or perhaps another type of add on to SC1 to bring the original game back to life? Think about it.. perhaps blizzard has finally realized that this was in fact one of theiR better games and decided to remaster the graphics in preparation for a Brood War 2?
Just a thought.. but it seems to make sense in a way given the fact that their even thinking about HD graphics and improved classic bnet.
Probably not. It's an RTS with a perfect balance already, doing anything would split the community and ruin the design/balance. It's also held together by spaghetti code so they cant just make a new version of the same game, they'd have to use the same engine so their options would be very limited.
This game isnt going to be like AoE2 where you can just add whatever in an expansion and people will be happy.
If they add things to SC, it's either going to be an update to LOTV or SC3. They're not changing BW because the vast majority of fans don't want it changed. They only changed the attack animation stall and sprite limit bug after they were the only universal things people wanted to change.
On March 30 2017 02:51 onlystar wrote: ^ lol this guy broodwar 2 riiiight thing is nobody wants a broodwar2 because obvious balancing issues ... i mean just take a look at sc2 lol
I guess you're right. But was hoping this could spark a complete revival besides just the graphical update. But who am I kidding.. what I truely want is to go back 15 years ago when BW was at its prime in players and activity. Who wouldn't want that?
Perhaps they could at least still introduce enhanced things such as a better map creator, new bnet ladder system, etc. I know they mentioned something along those lines but hope they take it to another level to attract and bring back the old and new communities.
it will be a very interesting time when SC:R is released
there are big protourneys with ASL in place and OGN has shown interest in running one sponsors are there yet modest untill now, if interest and views keep accumulating and SC:R might bring it to the next level, we might see more players/viewers more/bigger sponsors bigger budgets.. bigger tourneys and so on..
fuck, if this gets the attention it deserves and everything goes smoothly i might just leave my league of legends career for this. Holy shit i'm way too hyped for this
On March 29 2017 22:55 KOtical wrote: tbh i rather see new ones instead of remastered games.... so i would have rather had a starcraft 3 wich (i guess) would have alot more people pumped for the game...
Regardless Team 1 (the RTS team) and the Classic team are two completely different entities. Even if you wanted a new game, this Remaster didn't take up time and resources that would have spent on a new game.
I'm honestly not ready for them to jump into a new RTS. I love SC2 and I'm so pumped about SC:R and both games still have a lot of life in them. On top of that, as much as I love SC2, I think there are so many lessons that can be learned from that game's progression and development over the years and there are probably more lessons Blizzard can learn by continuing to focus on improving SC2, as long as there is still a viable competitive scene at least.
That said, if they do decide to make another RTS, I think it's only fair Warcraft 4 get's a go.
Overwatch RTS it is then
Na, Blizzard buys the rights to the C&C Franchise and makes C&C 5.
On March 30 2017 02:49 BunkerPush wrote: So I haven't had the time to skim through this forum topic but... had it ever crossed anyone's mind that the remaster of SC1 may lead up to a possible SC1 expansion or perhaps another type of add on to SC1 to bring the original game back to life? Think about it.. perhaps blizzard has finally realized that this was in fact one of theiR better games and decided to remaster the graphics in preparation for a Brood War 2?
Just a thought.. but it seems to make sense in a way given the fact that their even thinking about HD graphics and improved classic bnet.
A new sequel to an expansion that was made for a game that already has had a sequel and two expansions.
On March 29 2017 22:55 KOtical wrote: tbh i rather see new ones instead of remastered games.... so i would have rather had a starcraft 3 wich (i guess) would have alot more people pumped for the game...
Regardless Team 1 (the RTS team) and the Classic team are two completely different entities. Even if you wanted a new game, this Remaster didn't take up time and resources that would have spent on a new game.
I'm honestly not ready for them to jump into a new RTS. I love SC2 and I'm so pumped about SC:R and both games still have a lot of life in them. On top of that, as much as I love SC2, I think there are so many lessons that can be learned from that game's progression and development over the years and there are probably more lessons Blizzard can learn by continuing to focus on improving SC2, as long as there is still a viable competitive scene at least.
That said, if they do decide to make another RTS, I think it's only fair Warcraft 4 get's a go.
Overwatch RTS it is then
Na, Blizzard buys the rights to the C&C Franchise and makes C&C 5.
To me this is a much bigger deal than just getting to play Brood War at a higher resolution. I mean that's cool too, but here's a glimmer of hope for the future of games of this type. It doesn't even need to be a huge success, we just need the right people to play it and for it to click that granular control and inefficient pathing AI makes for a style of RTS gameplay that's just as valid as that of more recent RTS games. And in many ways gameplay that's more tactile and engaging, with so much design space that hasn't been explored yet. Imagine a future where indie "BW-likes" explode in the way that action rogue-likes did. Sure it isn't likely, but it's possible.
Any issues with the new art assets aside, I can't give Blizzard enough props for doing this.Their choice to keep the gameplay (almost) exactly the same is a direct refutation of the widely held view that BW is outdated on a fundamental level.
On March 26 2017 14:22 lichter wrote: With Blizzard keen to improve BW functionality and play experience, what other features, add-ons, or bugs do you think Blizzard should add to the game?
On March 26 2017 14:22 lichter wrote: With Blizzard keen to improve BW functionality and play experience, what other features, add-ons, or bugs do you think Blizzard should add to the game?
Improved mapmaking tools.
I cannot second this enough
100%!
hey I think it would also be interesting if blizzard try adding any maps made by themselves? would be interesting, for example I would like new maps that could rival hunters in quality for 2v2/3v3/4v4 stuff?^^ hunters has this irregularity to it^^
The original Starcraft still looks better than the remastered version.
It's looks like Blizzard completely redone all the sprites from scratch instead of taking the old sprites and adding more detail to them + updating them to HD.
Plus, SC: RM looks too cartoony. But too realistic (like Starcraft 2) doesn't look good either.
I liked how the original Starcraft looks half cartoony and half realistic. But SC: RM looks 100% cartoony.
And why is Blizzard remastering the sound? They're probably going to make the badass sounding Protoss Zealot sound like a wimp. And they're probably going to make the Terran Ghost not sound cool anymore. If anything, all the units' voices are going to get downgraded. I wouldn't be surprised if Blizzard made the Terran Siege Tank's 120mm Shock Cannon sound like a BB gun.
On March 31 2017 15:04 Grahf Vollmer wrote: Why does SC: RM look like a cell phone game?
The original Starcraft still looks better than the remastered version.
It's looks like Blizzard completely redone all the sprites from scratch instead of taking the old sprites and adding more detail to them + updating them to HD.
Plus, SC: RM looks too cartoony. But too realistic (like Starcraft 2) doesn't look good either.
I liked how the original Starcraft looks half cartoony and half realistic. But SC: RM looks 100% cartoony.
And why is Blizzard remastering the sound? They're probably going to make the badass sounding Protoss Zealot sound like a wimp. And they're probably going to make the Terran Ghost not sound cool anymore. If anything, all the units' voices are going to get downgraded. I wouldn't be surprised if Blizzard made the Terran Siege Tank's 120mm Shock Cannon sound like a BB gun.
You do know that you can just play with the original client with everything intact?
Korean PC bangs and players won't be happy. A lot of them use XP iirc. ffs koreans/chinese still mostly use Internet Explorer to browse the internet LOL
Korean PC bangs and players won't be happy. A lot of them use XP iirc. ffs koreans/chinese still mostly use Internet Explorer to browse the internet LOL
From reading that, they aren't disabling the OLD non HD BW from working under XP right? That would be somewhat insane... but it isn't entirely clear from the link.
Korean PC bangs and players won't be happy. A lot of them use XP iirc. ffs koreans/chinese still mostly use Internet Explorer to browse the internet LOL
From reading that, they aren't disabling the OLD non HD BW from working under XP right? That would be somewhat insane... but it isn't entirely clear from the link.
I'm using XP and can confirm, cannot connect to the PTR.Single player and LAN work fine. Just on my old computer here, my newer machine has Win 7. BW classic 1.18 will need at least Win 7 to use Bnet.
Korean PC bangs and players won't be happy. A lot of them use XP iirc. ffs koreans/chinese still mostly use Internet Explorer to browse the internet LOL
From reading that, they aren't disabling the OLD non HD BW from working under XP right? That would be somewhat insane... but it isn't entirely clear from the link.
i think this is an old data,i dont remember right now where i did read it but the most popular os in Korea is w7.and i think more and more people are using chrome,but IE still strong.
Korean PC bangs and players won't be happy. A lot of them use XP iirc. ffs koreans/chinese still mostly use Internet Explorer to browse the internet LOL
From reading that, they aren't disabling the OLD non HD BW from working under XP right? That would be somewhat insane... but it isn't entirely clear from the link.
what about windows 98 and windows ME??? lol j/k but XP yeah, I'm sure people still use it
Korean PC bangs and players won't be happy. A lot of them use XP iirc. ffs koreans/chinese still mostly use Internet Explorer to browse the internet LOL
From reading that, they aren't disabling the OLD non HD BW from working under XP right? That would be somewhat insane... but it isn't entirely clear from the link.
I'm using XP and can confirm, cannot connect to the PTR.Single player and LAN work fine. Just on my old computer here, my newer machine has Win 7. BW classic 1.18 will need at least Win 7 to use Bnet.
That's kinda... really shitty. I know XP is ancient but BW is too.
Korean PC bangs and players won't be happy. A lot of them use XP iirc. ffs koreans/chinese still mostly use Internet Explorer to browse the internet LOL
From reading that, they aren't disabling the OLD non HD BW from working under XP right? That would be somewhat insane... but it isn't entirely clear from the link.
I'm using XP and can confirm, cannot connect to the PTR.Single player and LAN work fine. Just on my old computer here, my newer machine has Win 7. BW classic 1.18 will need at least Win 7 to use Bnet.
That's kinda... really shitty. I know XP is ancient but BW is too.
yes it would be nice if we can know why XP can't be supported if it really can't, older machines better run XP than 7 I think
Korean PC bangs and players won't be happy. A lot of them use XP iirc. ffs koreans/chinese still mostly use Internet Explorer to browse the internet LOL
From reading that, they aren't disabling the OLD non HD BW from working under XP right? That would be somewhat insane... but it isn't entirely clear from the link.
I'm using XP and can confirm, cannot connect to the PTR.Single player and LAN work fine. Just on my old computer here, my newer machine has Win 7. BW classic 1.18 will need at least Win 7 to use Bnet.
That's kinda... really shitty. I know XP is ancient but BW is too.
Not really. You cannot compare an operating system with an application. Those people using XP on the internet are a threat not only to their own machines but to others on the internet as well. There are so many vulnarabilities that are not getting patched that allow attackers to take control over your system… Those machines become part of botnets, the bane of the modern internet.
Go to gametrics.com and in the bottom pie chart you can see hardware and software specs of registered pc bangs. Click on the 소프트웨어 tab to see OS. Koreans still use ie because a lot of security measures require IE which is sad but yeah a lot of sites were hard coded to work with and only with ie. source: im korean who lives abroad and is infuriated every time i go to korea and try to do anything made me play a lot of bw whenever i went to korea because no cell phone number to verify stuff RIP
Korean PC bangs and players won't be happy. A lot of them use XP iirc. ffs koreans/chinese still mostly use Internet Explorer to browse the internet LOL
From reading that, they aren't disabling the OLD non HD BW from working under XP right? That would be somewhat insane... but it isn't entirely clear from the link.
I'm using XP and can confirm, cannot connect to the PTR.Single player and LAN work fine. Just on my old computer here, my newer machine has Win 7. BW classic 1.18 will need at least Win 7 to use Bnet.
That's kinda... really shitty. I know XP is ancient but BW is too.
XP no longer is supported by windows. No one should be using XP, it has nothing to protect against latest viruses, exploits etc. Ergo, no company designs with XP in mind. They arent even 0.01% of market share anymore.
Based on what we have seen blizz putting out this past week, is anyone else thinking its a bigger possibility now that remastered might offer a worse online UI than the original?
Korean PC bangs and players won't be happy. A lot of them use XP iirc. ffs koreans/chinese still mostly use Internet Explorer to browse the internet LOL
From reading that, they aren't disabling the OLD non HD BW from working under XP right? That would be somewhat insane... but it isn't entirely clear from the link.
I'm using XP and can confirm, cannot connect to the PTR.Single player and LAN work fine. Just on my old computer here, my newer machine has Win 7. BW classic 1.18 will need at least Win 7 to use Bnet.
That's kinda... really shitty. I know XP is ancient but BW is too.
XP no longer is supported by windows. No one should be using XP, it has nothing to protect against latest viruses, exploits etc. Ergo, no company designs with XP in mind. They arent even 0.01% of market share anymore.
doesn't matter microsoft supporting or not, the latest virus probably not developped for xp either, I havent even been using an antivirus for ages^^ seems the best technique is still dodging, or using systems incompatible with virus^^ people use what operating system they want to use and if they are using BW on XP, new patch breaking it may not be fair, you bought BW it works on XP that said if nobody minds and its necessary for some kind of improvement..
On April 01 2017 01:00 ICanFlyLow wrote: Based on what we have seen blizz putting out this past week, is anyone else thinking its a bigger possibility now that remastered might offer a worse online UI than the original?
Not really. I think a few people are being hysterical and overblown on the UI in general, but either way blizzard seems to be responding to the flaws and working quickly to fix them.
Korean PC bangs and players won't be happy. A lot of them use XP iirc. ffs koreans/chinese still mostly use Internet Explorer to browse the internet LOL
From reading that, they aren't disabling the OLD non HD BW from working under XP right? That would be somewhat insane... but it isn't entirely clear from the link.
I'm using XP and can confirm, cannot connect to the PTR.Single player and LAN work fine. Just on my old computer here, my newer machine has Win 7. BW classic 1.18 will need at least Win 7 to use Bnet.
That's kinda... really shitty. I know XP is ancient but BW is too.
XP no longer is supported by windows. No one should be using XP, it has nothing to protect against latest viruses, exploits etc. Ergo, no company designs with XP in mind. They arent even 0.01% of market share anymore.
doesn't matter microsoft supporting or not, the latest virus probably not developped for xp either, I havent even been using an antivirus for ages^^ seems the best technique is still dodging, or using systems incompatible with virus^^ people use what operating system they want to use and if they are using BW on XP, new patch breaking it may not be fair, you bought BW it works on XP that said if nobody minds and its necessary for some kind of improvement..
Your computer is a security risk for everyone. It is not supported. It will not be supported by any gaming company ever again, you and your 12 remaining xp users are just walking exploits. It would be a waste of blizzards time and money to design anything with you in mind. Upgrade your os.
On April 01 2017 01:00 ICanFlyLow wrote: Based on what we have seen blizz putting out this past week, is anyone else thinking its a bigger possibility now that remastered might offer a worse online UI than the original?
Not really. I think a few people are being hysterical and overblown on the UI in general, but either way blizzard seems to be responding to the flaws and working quickly to fix them.
Korean PC bangs and players won't be happy. A lot of them use XP iirc. ffs koreans/chinese still mostly use Internet Explorer to browse the internet LOL
From reading that, they aren't disabling the OLD non HD BW from working under XP right? That would be somewhat insane... but it isn't entirely clear from the link.
I'm using XP and can confirm, cannot connect to the PTR.Single player and LAN work fine. Just on my old computer here, my newer machine has Win 7. BW classic 1.18 will need at least Win 7 to use Bnet.
That's kinda... really shitty. I know XP is ancient but BW is too.
XP no longer is supported by windows. No one should be using XP, it has nothing to protect against latest viruses, exploits etc. Ergo, no company designs with XP in mind. They arent even 0.01% of market share anymore.
doesn't matter microsoft supporting or not, the latest virus probably not developped for xp either, I havent even been using an antivirus for ages^^ seems the best technique is still dodging, or using systems incompatible with virus^^ people use what operating system they want to use and if they are using BW on XP, new patch breaking it may not be fair, you bought BW it works on XP that said if nobody minds and its necessary for some kind of improvement..
Your computer is a security risk for everyone. It is not supported. It will not be supported by any gaming company ever again, you and your 12 remaining xp users are just walking exploits. It would be a waste of blizzards time and money to design anything with you in mind. Upgrade your os.
XP is on 4.83% of desktops worldwide as of Jan 2017 but this will affect developing countries the most.Peru always had a decent BW userbase, places like that that can't really afford to upgrade.Funny that i kept this old XP machine going because i couldn't get the graphical bugs out of my windows 7 machine while playing brood war.There is nothing unusual about keeping an old computer around for playing a near 20 year old game.Your concerns are hyperbole.
Based on what we have seen blizz putting out this past week, is anyone else thinking its a bigger possibility now that remastered might offer a worse online UI than the original?
Developers sounded pretty receptive to the ideas and bugfixes but i doubt this will drop next week onsidering the amount of work that needs doing.Doubt they have a big team on this.
On April 01 2017 03:39 ProMeTheus112 wrote: I think they said the team is like 20 or 25 people, sounds like a fair size for the project to me!
It's a modest but fair size development team, but it's still far smaller than Blizzard's other teams. I think Hearthstone was even running on over 70 developers.
So excited, hope it won't be too expensive though! Not completely impressed with the new interpretation on some of the classic sprites but looks good overall.
StarCraft: Remastered is a reverently crafted modernization of Blizzard Entertainment’s original sci-fi real-time strategy game. StarCraft: Remastered will offer a full graphical overhaul of the original StarCraft and the StarCraft: Brood War expansion, bringing a modern look and feel to the timeless classic with widescreen UHD support for up to 4K resolution.
StarCraft: Remastered will include all of StarCraft’s and Brood War’s campaign missions with enhanced storytelling via new comic-book style interludes. While this rejuvenated version of StarCraft is locked and loaded for the modern era, the gameplay and balance have been precisely preserved, for an experience that will feel identical to veteran players.
StarCraft: Remastered Feature Highlights
Widescreen 4K Ultra HD Resolution
Classic StarCraft Gameplay Remains Untouched
New Illustrations Enhance Original Story
More than 50 Single-Player Missions • Plugged in to Blizzard’s Gaming Network
Cloud Saves for Campaign, Custom Maps, Replays, and Keybinds
Localized in 13 Languages
GORGEOUS ULTRA HD VISUALS
4K Ultra HD Graphics and Upgraded Audio: StarCraft: Remastered will include high-resolution unit models, buildings, doodads, and tilesets, as well as high-fidelity music and sound effects to bring the original game into the modern era, while retaining the classic StarCraft style.
Same Timeless Gameplay: The gameplay balance and idiosyncrasies have been painstakingly preserved from the original game. Mutalisk stacking, magic-boxing, unit pathfinding, control-group limitations, and more will all remain intact, allowing veteran players to enjoy playing and watching high-level competitive matches as before.
UNSURPASSED REAL-TIME STRATEGY GAMEPLAY
Includes Original and Expansion Campaigns: Return to the planetary battlefields of the war-torn Koprulu Sector and command the forces of the terran, zerg, and protoss across more than 50 story-driven single-player missions.
Fall in Love Again: Relive the epic saga of some of gaming’s most memorable and beloved heroes and villains, including Marshal Jim Raynor, Lieutenant Sarah Kerrigan, and Praetor Fenix.
Enhanced Storytelling: Original cinematics will be improved to 1080p resolution, while mission interludes and introductions will feature new comic-book style illustrations.
ROBUST FEATURES BRING THE TIMELESS CLASSIC TO THE MODERN ERA
Blizzard’s Gaming Network Brings a Bevy of Features: In addition to accurate matchmaking and enhanced ladder functionality, players will also be able to stay in touch with and chat with friends playing other Blizzard games. The classic functionality of named custom games and custom game lobbies will be retained, for the familiarity of long-time StarCraft players.
Localized in 13 Languages: English, German, French, Brazilian Portuguese, Spanish (LatAm), Spanish (European), Polish, Italian, Russian, Korean, Simplified Chinese, Traditional Chinese, and Japanese.
Hold on a second I love what I see only low persistence is missing what gives BLIZZARD.
I Cant see the game being played in 20 some years without something like low persistence, I'm sensing a lack of vision.
EEP SCAN~ SWEEP SCAN~ Not Enough Energy
Cmon guys where do you see this remake in 20 years, besides the history books. This kind of thing could have been a impressive feather in your cap being able to say 1st! competitive video game playable under low persistence.
WELP too late riot and valve are all over it by now [>_<]
Is this lack a vision more about remaking the game on the cheap, cutting corners and saving money instead of flushing the remake out as the sporting game. Things like low persistence not included really makes me think somethings are missing.
Talking about on the cheap SERIOUS question for blizzard. Any past superstars helping with the remake, maybe input from the likes of JULYZERG or NADA or BISU as in real qualified guys from every race with worthy opinions to share who just wont play anymore as not to contaminate the field?
I'm hoping this remake is the start of a esport worldwide supported and ruled by the developer. It scares me that this remake not be allowed to be screwed over by Kespa type influences which aren't always on the same page.
Any news on a release date yet? Summer is almost here. I know this is quite a low key release per Blizz standards, but I would have thought they would give a release date at least at least a month or two before the game drops.
There's some content on the Starcraft website that 'unlocks' on the 12th called "The First War" - could be something in the ways of a release date or something.
On May 11 2017 03:09 WeddingEpisode wrote: So you still have to touch every production facility separately to produce a unit from it?
yes, honestly it's one of those features that balances the game that Blizzard probably never thought about back then.
It is also a bad way to balance the game.
No, you need skill, that's all.
And you need skill in lots of other stupider ways (like lets make it so you cannot just click the building and press a hotkey but need to press another hotkey first or 1000 different bad ways to create bad skill checks). It is just another artificial barrier that does not need to be. Skill can be found in other ways.
On May 11 2017 03:09 WeddingEpisode wrote: So you still have to touch every production facility separately to produce a unit from it?
yes, honestly it's one of those features that balances the game that Blizzard probably never thought about back then.
It is also a bad way to balance the game.
No, you need skill, that's all.
And you need skill in lots of other stupider ways (like lets make it so you cannot just click the building and press a hotkey but need to press another hotkey first or 1000 different bad ways to create bad skill checks). It is just another artificial barrier that does not need to be. Skill can be found in other ways.
And how did that work out for SC2 long term with Blizzard pumping Millions of cash into the pro scene?
On May 11 2017 03:09 WeddingEpisode wrote: So you still have to touch every production facility separately to produce a unit from it?
yes, honestly it's one of those features that balances the game that Blizzard probably never thought about back then.
It is also a bad way to balance the game.
No, you need skill, that's all.
And you need skill in lots of other stupider ways (like lets make it so you cannot just click the building and press a hotkey but need to press another hotkey first or 1000 different bad ways to create bad skill checks). It is just another artificial barrier that does not need to be. Skill can be found in other ways.
Not an artificial barrier, making everything difficult allows for people to come back from behind by drawing attention, when you have to work against the interface it allows for the manipulation of attention. If you dont like the game, go elsewhere.
On May 11 2017 03:09 WeddingEpisode wrote: So you still have to touch every production facility separately to produce a unit from it?
yes, honestly it's one of those features that balances the game that Blizzard probably never thought about back then.
It is also a bad way to balance the game.
No, you need skill, that's all.
And you need skill in lots of other stupider ways (like lets make it so you cannot just click the building and press a hotkey but need to press another hotkey first or 1000 different bad ways to create bad skill checks). It is just another artificial barrier that does not need to be. Skill can be found in other ways.
And how did that work out for SC2 long term with Blizzard pumping Millions of cash into the pro scene?
It is a huge stretch to blame problems of sc2 on a single feature called Multiple building selection.
MBS might not be the only problem with SC2, but it's definitely one of them. Back in 2007 when it was first revealed, this forum freaked out about it. Single Building Selection is a cornerstone of what makes Starcraft, Starcraft. A large fraction of each game's actions are centered around selecting production buildings.
You're right, new players hate it and think it's stupid. That's fine, but it's fundamental to the game design and a part of what makes BW fans love BW. No RTS is ever going to be designed like this again so let us have this.
Edit: I also think that hotkey rebinding should be a part of competitive play. If pros are really going to take the time to re-learn the hotkeys and reprogram their muscle memory, that's their prerogative. I highly doubt it will break the balance if you save a few milliseconds because your fingers only have to travel one inch instead of three.
On May 11 2017 03:09 WeddingEpisode wrote: So you still have to touch every production facility separately to produce a unit from it?
yes, honestly it's one of those features that balances the game that Blizzard probably never thought about back then.
It is also a bad way to balance the game.
No, you need skill, that's all.
And you need skill in lots of other stupider ways (like lets make it so you cannot just click the building and press a hotkey but need to press another hotkey first or 1000 different bad ways to create bad skill checks). It is just another artificial barrier that does not need to be. Skill can be found in other ways.
And how did that work out for SC2 long term with Blizzard pumping Millions of cash into the pro scene?
It is a huge stretch to blame problems of sc2 on a single feature called Multiple building selection.
You're right, custom hotkeys,uncapped unit grouping, and numerous WoW/LoL in game spells also contributed to the failing SC2 pro scene.
On May 11 2017 05:21 GGzerG wrote: MBS would completely break the balance of BW, anyone who thinks otherwise clearly doesn't understand the game well enough...
It would influence balance yes and some other things can be rebalanced to counter it. Maybe limit it to 12 buildings like units are :D
But lack of this feature alone will prevent SC Remastered to become popular in the West. I am really not sure what is the end goal of Blizzard with this Remastered. Is it just doing it because they are so rich and they can?
I think it's possible to design and balance a game around MBS, unlimited unit selection, auto-mine, and smart casting even though SC2 didn't completely succeed in that regard. IMO, most of its problems stemmed from unit design and economy design. However, that's a discussion for another game and not for BW, which should mostly remain as is.
I don't think their goal is to make BW popular in the west. This project is a love letter to the fans. They would never change something so fundamental to the game like the number of buildings that you can select at once to appease a vocal minority of newcomers if it would simultaneously divide and destroy the extant community.
On May 11 2017 05:53 Meta wrote: I don't think their goal is to make BW popular in the west. This project is a love letter to the fans. They would never change something so fundamental to the game like the number of buildings that you can select at once to appease a vocal minority of newcomers if it would simultaneously divide and destroy the extant community.
In that last interview they talk how the custom hotkey addition is to bring in new players. I think not adding MBS or automining is more because they are too small a team to trust themselves to be able to rebalance SC Remastered so they just made smallest possible changes that do make it easier for new players.
Can someone explain to me why custom hotkeys would effect balance at all? If you're able to type without looking at your keyboard it seems you're unaffected by this kind of thing. And while things like the 12 unit selection limit were conscious balance decisions, as far as I know this is not how they chose hotkeys. Marine starts with M, so their hotkey is "M." Medic is C because M was taken by Marine. I don't think they made the hotkey for lings "Z" because they thought it would be more balanced to give zergs that kind of hotkey closer to their resting position.
I mean would anyone think they lost a ZvZ because their opponent cheated by pressing V for their Overlords instead of O? It just seems like such an easy way to ease both returning and new players into BW whilst having at most a minuscule effect on balance.
On May 11 2017 03:09 WeddingEpisode wrote: So you still have to touch every production facility separately to produce a unit from it?
yes, honestly it's one of those features that balances the game that Blizzard probably never thought about back then.
It is also a bad way to balance the game.
No, you need skill, that's all.
And you need skill in lots of other stupider ways (like lets make it so you cannot just click the building and press a hotkey but need to press another hotkey first or 1000 different bad ways to create bad skill checks). It is just another artificial barrier that does not need to be. Skill can be found in other ways.
And how did that work out for SC2 long term with Blizzard pumping Millions of cash into the pro scene?
It is a huge stretch to blame problems of sc2 on a single feature called Multiple building selection.
You're right, custom hotkeys,uncapped unit grouping, and numerous WoW/LoL in game spells also contributed to the failing SC2 pro scene.
I'd say the improved unit pathing (making units clump up way more) and high damage (particularly on AoE) had a bigger detrimental effect on the game. That's not to say all the other factors aren't a part of it all and adds up to big differences but I feel my points are mentioned too rarely.
I say this as someone who has mainly played SC2 and am only really about to start playing BW sometime between now and release of Remastered (meaning my points above might not carry too much weight). It's quite easy for me to see how the lack of MBS and auto-mining and other things make up for a lot of other deficiencies in the game's balance.
I will say that custom hotkeys is probably the smallest part of it and is mostly artificial difficulty. There comes a point where you should probably focus more on making sure new players like me feel more welcome without sacrificing much of the true difficulties in the game.
On May 11 2017 06:02 erin[go]bragh wrote: Can someone explain to me why custom hotkeys would effect balance at all? If you're able to type without looking at your keyboard it seems you're unaffected by this kind of thing. And while things like the 12 unit selection limit were conscious balance decisions, as far as I know this is not how they chose hotkeys. Marine starts with M, so their hotkey is "M." Medic is C because M was taken by Marine. I don't think they made the hotkey for lings "Z" because they thought it would be more balanced to give zergs that kind of hotkey closer to their resting position.
I mean would anyone think they lost a ZvZ because their opponent cheated by pressing V for their Overlords instead of O? It just seems like such an easy way to ease both returning and new players into BW whilst having at most a minuscule effect on balance.
it doesn't. it's all a QoL thing. you aren't going to be able to beat flash overnight if you have superior key bindings to him. anyway, the option is available to all users so i don't see what the problem is.
even when i was playing the PTR, i tried experimenting with E for Probe and E for Pylon and after a few games I just had to switch back to P, it's just way too hard to learn. stuff like v for overlord is obviously useful and not hard to re-learn though.
On May 11 2017 05:21 GGzerG wrote: MBS would completely break the balance of BW, anyone who thinks otherwise clearly doesn't understand the game well enough...
It would influence balance yes and some other things can be rebalanced to counter it. Maybe limit it to 12 buildings like units are :D
But lack of this feature alone will prevent SC Remastered to become popular in the West. I am really not sure what is the end goal of Blizzard with this Remastered. Is it just doing it because they are so rich and they can?
By popular in the West, do you mean : shortlived and played by whining babies always begging blizzard fo patches, before they move on to something else? Then let it not be "popular in the West". But you know what? It will be popular. Because bw is perfect, and every single person who plays it competitively long enough to master it will tell you that it is. Maybe that's what you need to do my friend : go on the battlefield and train your ass off. Multiplayer in bw all comes down to this question : "do you have what it takes?". I say that with kindness, and not aggressiveness. It's about pain and sweat. Victories are deserved, earned. They are made in blood. It's a sport man. A game against yourself before it is against your opponent. If you want it easier, it's totaly fine : enjoy sc2 and glhf my friend.
Custom hotkeys aren't game-changing, maybe for specific situations such manner pylons might be easier to abuse but pro-gamers are so used to the vanilla keys.
On May 11 2017 06:02 erin[go]bragh wrote: Can someone explain to me why custom hotkeys would effect balance at all? If you're able to type without looking at your keyboard it seems you're unaffected by this kind of thing. And while things like the 12 unit selection limit were conscious balance decisions, as far as I know this is not how they chose hotkeys. Marine starts with M, so their hotkey is "M." Medic is C because M was taken by Marine. I don't think they made the hotkey for lings "Z" because they thought it would be more balanced to give zergs that kind of hotkey closer to their resting position.
I mean would anyone think they lost a ZvZ because their opponent cheated by pressing V for their Overlords instead of O? It just seems like such an easy way to ease both returning and new players into BW whilst having at most a minuscule effect on balance.
it doesn't. it's all a QoL thing. you aren't going to be able to beat flash overnight if you have superior key bindings to him. anyway, the option is available to all users so i don't see what the problem is.
even when i was playing the PTR, i tried experimenting with E for Probe and E for Pylon and after a few games I just had to switch back to P, it's just way too hard to learn. stuff like v for overlord is obviously useful and not hard to re-learn though.
That is how you explain it to yourself. I can easily say that BW having MBS is not going to let you beat Flash overnight (or probably ever). Everyone draws that line somewhere else.
I was referring to custom hotkeys,single building selection and 12 units limit are untouchable features,as stated by the devs. For people who have not understand it yet,SCremaster doesn't want to appeal to the western scene,this is 100% made for Koreans.If some foreigners come to BW than it will obviously be better, but if they don't,the remastered will be a success based on KR sales alone.
On May 11 2017 06:02 erin[go]bragh wrote: Can someone explain to me why custom hotkeys would effect balance at all? If you're able to type without looking at your keyboard it seems you're unaffected by this kind of thing. And while things like the 12 unit selection limit were conscious balance decisions, as far as I know this is not how they chose hotkeys. Marine starts with M, so their hotkey is "M." Medic is C because M was taken by Marine. I don't think they made the hotkey for lings "Z" because they thought it would be more balanced to give zergs that kind of hotkey closer to their resting position.
I mean would anyone think they lost a ZvZ because their opponent cheated by pressing V for their Overlords instead of O? It just seems like such an easy way to ease both returning and new players into BW whilst having at most a minuscule effect on balance.
it doesn't. it's all a QoL thing. you aren't going to be able to beat flash overnight if you have superior key bindings to him. anyway, the option is available to all users so i don't see what the problem is.
even when i was playing the PTR, i tried experimenting with E for Probe and E for Pylon and after a few games I just had to switch back to P, it's just way too hard to learn. stuff like v for overlord is obviously useful and not hard to re-learn though.
That is how you explain it to yourself. I can easily say that BW having MBS is not going to let you beat Flash overnight (or probably ever). Everyone draws that line somewhere else.
Custom hotkeys are not a big deal at all. I can never understand why people are so against it lol. It's not going to make one person better and it's not going to make a player win or lose because they changed their hotkeys.
On May 11 2017 06:02 erin[go]bragh wrote: Can someone explain to me why custom hotkeys would effect balance at all? If you're able to type without looking at your keyboard it seems you're unaffected by this kind of thing. And while things like the 12 unit selection limit were conscious balance decisions, as far as I know this is not how they chose hotkeys. Marine starts with M, so their hotkey is "M." Medic is C because M was taken by Marine. I don't think they made the hotkey for lings "Z" because they thought it would be more balanced to give zergs that kind of hotkey closer to their resting position.
I mean would anyone think they lost a ZvZ because their opponent cheated by pressing V for their Overlords instead of O? It just seems like such an easy way to ease both returning and new players into BW whilst having at most a minuscule effect on balance.
it doesn't. it's all a QoL thing. you aren't going to be able to beat flash overnight if you have superior key bindings to him. anyway, the option is available to all users so i don't see what the problem is.
even when i was playing the PTR, i tried experimenting with E for Probe and E for Pylon and after a few games I just had to switch back to P, it's just way too hard to learn. stuff like v for overlord is obviously useful and not hard to re-learn though.
That is how you explain it to yourself. I can easily say that BW having MBS is not going to let you beat Flash overnight (or probably ever). Everyone draws that line somewhere else.
I'm not sure those things are analogous. Changing keybinds would be like switching keys around on a piano. The notes and the mechanism for playing them are the same, all that changes are the locations of the keys that trigger them. Something like MBS would be like adding effects to the piano, at which point it becomes a different instrument entirely. If we were talking about making StarCraft 3 it would be a great discussion, but this is being billed explicitly as a faithful remaster of the original game, so I feel like the devs are rightly being very light-handed with any changes.
On May 11 2017 05:52 eviltomahawk wrote: I think it's possible to design and balance a game around MBS, unlimited unit selection, auto-mine, and smart casting even though SC2 didn't completely succeed in that regard. IMO, most of its problems stemmed from unit design and economy design. However, that's a discussion for another game and not for BW, which should mostly remain as is.
+1 totally agree, SC2 problem is also pathing mechanics, max fluid & concentrated = less tactics
There's tons of evidence from SC2 that optimal hotkey setups deliver minor improvements but do not vastly improve the skill level of the player. The easiest example is TheCore by Jakatak. While I commend him for the long hours of work put into this project, it simply does not greatly improve the skill of the player. No one has gone from Bronze to GM solely due to a better hotkey layout, and no pro except some B tier foreigner Zerg used it (I can't remember exactly who, but he did not improve by much).
The only people who are even remotely affected by custom keybinds are 1) people who disabilities who physically can't jump around the keyboard, and 2) very low level players who are unable to shift positions properly. While there is some debate that a small QoL change raises the skill floor even by a small amount and thus reduces the diversity of skill in the game, we have historically seen that low level SC2 players have benefited only slightly from more optimal hotkey setups; the sheer difficulty of multi-tasking, basic macro, and unit control are far larger barriers than pressing the right buttons accurately every time.
Before I get pounced on for comparing everything to a different game, I personally believe that BW has far greater complexities in the areas of multi-tasking, strategic thinking, and micro and therefore is affected even less by custom hotkeys.
On May 11 2017 05:52 eviltomahawk wrote: I think it's possible to design and balance a game around MBS, unlimited unit selection, auto-mine, and smart casting even though SC2 didn't completely succeed in that regard. IMO, most of its problems stemmed from unit design and economy design. However, that's a discussion for another game and not for BW, which should mostly remain as is.
+1 totally agree, SC2 problem is also pathing mechanics, max fluid & concentrated = less tactics
Yeah, the clumping did cause pretty bad design problems, but I will admit that out of the many RTS games that I've played, SC2's pathing personally felt like one of the most comfortable to use. I wished they could have kept that comfort and convenience while fixing the clumping problem.
Anyone else had a difficult time as a spectator with SC2? I gave up on it quickly because I just couldn't get into it with the clumping design and the heavy color saturation.
On May 11 2017 10:30 EsportsJohn wrote: Before I get pounced on for comparing everything to a different game, I personally believe that BW has far greater complexities in the areas of multi-tasking, strategic thinking, and micro and therefore is affected even less by custom hotkeys.
I believe something along these lines was said by Day[9] when talking about the main differences between StarCraft I and II, and why Brood War was NOT mainly a strategy game. While mechanics are not everything about it, there are so many other things that make the first StarCraft a more complex game than the second, that believing custom hotkeys will mess everything up is a very foolish idea.
The customization of hotkeys helps solving annoying and minor issues in hand positioning, finding comfort and microscopically faster commands. People used to do it all the time in WarCraft III, which already made it possible, and it was very insignificant (aside from maybe skill combos like "Nova coil" who would become much easier that way, but that doesn't apply largely to BW).
On May 11 2017 06:02 erin[go]bragh wrote: Can someone explain to me why custom hotkeys would effect balance at all? If you're able to type without looking at your keyboard it seems you're unaffected by this kind of thing. And while things like the 12 unit selection limit were conscious balance decisions, as far as I know this is not how they chose hotkeys. Marine starts with M, so their hotkey is "M." Medic is C because M was taken by Marine. I don't think they made the hotkey for lings "Z" because they thought it would be more balanced to give zergs that kind of hotkey closer to their resting position.
I mean would anyone think they lost a ZvZ because their opponent cheated by pressing V for their Overlords instead of O? It just seems like such an easy way to ease both returning and new players into BW whilst having at most a minuscule effect on balance.
it doesn't. it's all a QoL thing. you aren't going to be able to beat flash overnight if you have superior key bindings to him. anyway, the option is available to all users so i don't see what the problem is.
even when i was playing the PTR, i tried experimenting with E for Probe and E for Pylon and after a few games I just had to switch back to P, it's just way too hard to learn. stuff like v for overlord is obviously useful and not hard to re-learn though.
That is how you explain it to yourself. I can easily say that BW having MBS is not going to let you beat Flash overnight (or probably ever). Everyone draws that line somewhere else.
I'm not sure those things are analogous. Changing keybinds would be like switching keys around on a piano. The notes and the mechanism for playing them are the same, all that changes are the locations of the keys that trigger them. Something like MBS would be like adding effects to the piano, at which point it becomes a different instrument entirely. If we were talking about making StarCraft 3 it would be a great discussion, but this is being billed explicitly as a faithful remaster of the original game, so I feel like the devs are rightly being very light-handed with any changes.
Both reduce mechanical requirement of the game by different amounts. That is all the difference between them.
1.18 is already hated enough as is in korea for splitting fish and the ASL drama while being inferior to 1.16, if they add rebindable hotkeys it'll just be even more dead... the thing is, korea doesn't need or want "QOL" adjustments for d- players that think it's hard to hit o for overlord.. they also don't need or want input issues or a new dependency on blizzard for servers/updates when sc2 is still plagued with maphack and bnet .20. 1.18 is a charade given that we have a perfect game already in 1.16, a game that has been available for free for the past like 15+ years..
and yes, hotkeys do affect balance, how can you even argue that decreasing the mechanical difficulty of a game so dependent on mechanical proficiency wouldn't affect balance? maybe a new hotkey setup for terran would make them easy as hell to play? for instance, having all of your control groups on 1234qwert, maybe controlling 9 control groups of bio would be retardedly easy to play, making skterran the dominant build? or zerg, which routinely use all 9 control groups and vision hot keys? it's not a QOL 'improvement', it's a fundamental change to the game which is why it has been banned from ladders for those 15 years+ that 1.16 has been free..
On May 11 2017 17:52 Endymion wrote: and yes, hotkeys do affect balance, how can you even argue that decreasing the mechanical difficulty of a game so dependent on mechanical proficiency wouldn't affect balance? maybe a new hotkey setup for terran would make them easy as hell to play? for instance, having all of your control groups on 1234qwert, maybe controlling 9 control groups of bio would be retardedly easy to play, making skterran the dominant build? or zerg, which routinely use all 9 control groups and vision hot keys? it's not a QOL 'improvement', it's a fundamental change to the game which is why it has been banned from ladders for those 15 years+ that 1.16 has been free..
If the initial keybinding menu in the old PTR was an indicator of things to come then control groups and camera location hotkeys will remain the same. you will most likely only be able to remap unit ability and production hotkeys - which is fine by me.
On May 11 2017 17:52 Endymion wrote: 1.18 is already hated enough as is in korea for splitting fish and the ASL drama while being inferior to 1.16, if they add rebindable hotkeys it'll just be even more dead... the thing is, korea doesn't need or want "QOL" adjustments for d- players that think it's hard to hit o for overlord.. they also don't need or want input issues or a new dependency on blizzard for servers/updates when sc2 is still plagued with maphack and bnet .20. 1.18 is a charade given that we have a perfect game already in 1.16, a game that has been available for free for the past like 15+ years..
and yes, hotkeys do affect balance, how can you even argue that decreasing the mechanical difficulty of a game so dependent on mechanical proficiency wouldn't affect balance? maybe a new hotkey setup for terran would make them easy as hell to play? for instance, having all of your control groups on 1234qwert, maybe controlling 9 control groups of bio would be retardedly easy to play, making skterran the dominant build? or zerg, which routinely use all 9 control groups and vision hot keys? it's not a QOL 'improvement', it's a fundamental change to the game which is why it has been banned from ladders for those 15 years+ that 1.16 has been free..
Wasn't the whole korean scene like: WTF where did our rebindable hotkeys go, when they patched them out? They want rebindable hotkeys.
On May 11 2017 17:52 Endymion wrote: 1.18 is already hated enough as is in korea for splitting fish and the ASL drama while being inferior to 1.16, if they add rebindable hotkeys it'll just be even more dead... the thing is, korea doesn't need or want "QOL" adjustments for d- players that think it's hard to hit o for overlord.. they also don't need or want input issues or a new dependency on blizzard for servers/updates when sc2 is still plagued with maphack and bnet .20. 1.18 is a charade given that we have a perfect game already in 1.16, a game that has been available for free for the past like 15+ years..
and yes, hotkeys do affect balance, how can you even argue that decreasing the mechanical difficulty of a game so dependent on mechanical proficiency wouldn't affect balance? maybe a new hotkey setup for terran would make them easy as hell to play? for instance, having all of your control groups on 1234qwert, maybe controlling 9 control groups of bio would be retardedly easy to play, making skterran the dominant build? or zerg, which routinely use all 9 control groups and vision hot keys? it's not a QOL 'improvement', it's a fundamental change to the game which is why it has been banned from ladders for those 15 years+ that 1.16 has been free..
Wasn't the whole korean scene like: WTF where did our rebindable hotkeys go, when they patched them out? They want rebindable hotkeys.
Any source of that? I'm curious to listen to KR feedback
On May 11 2017 17:52 Endymion wrote: 1.18 is already hated enough as is in korea for splitting fish and the ASL drama while being inferior to 1.16, if they add rebindable hotkeys it'll just be even more dead... the thing is, korea doesn't need or want "QOL" adjustments for d- players that think it's hard to hit o for overlord.. they also don't need or want input issues or a new dependency on blizzard for servers/updates when sc2 is still plagued with maphack and bnet .20. 1.18 is a charade given that we have a perfect game already in 1.16, a game that has been available for free for the past like 15+ years..
and yes, hotkeys do affect balance, how can you even argue that decreasing the mechanical difficulty of a game so dependent on mechanical proficiency wouldn't affect balance? maybe a new hotkey setup for terran would make them easy as hell to play? for instance, having all of your control groups on 1234qwert, maybe controlling 9 control groups of bio would be retardedly easy to play, making skterran the dominant build? or zerg, which routinely use all 9 control groups and vision hot keys? it's not a QOL 'improvement', it's a fundamental change to the game which is why it has been banned from ladders for those 15 years+ that 1.16 has been free..
Wasn't the whole korean scene like: WTF where did our rebindable hotkeys go, when they patched them out? They want rebindable hotkeys.
Any source of that? I'm curious to listen to KR feedback
Gonna search for it later. I only read this myself in one of the patch threads here
On May 11 2017 17:52 Endymion wrote: 1.18 is already hated enough as is in korea for splitting fish and the ASL drama while being inferior to 1.16, if they add rebindable hotkeys it'll just be even more dead... the thing is, korea doesn't need or want "QOL" adjustments for d- players that think it's hard to hit o for overlord.. they also don't need or want input issues or a new dependency on blizzard for servers/updates when sc2 is still plagued with maphack and bnet .20. 1.18 is a charade given that we have a perfect game already in 1.16, a game that has been available for free for the past like 15+ years..
and yes, hotkeys do affect balance, how can you even argue that decreasing the mechanical difficulty of a game so dependent on mechanical proficiency wouldn't affect balance? maybe a new hotkey setup for terran would make them easy as hell to play? for instance, having all of your control groups on 1234qwert, maybe controlling 9 control groups of bio would be retardedly easy to play, making skterran the dominant build? or zerg, which routinely use all 9 control groups and vision hot keys? it's not a QOL 'improvement', it's a fundamental change to the game which is why it has been banned from ladders for those 15 years+ that 1.16 has been free..
You think rebinding hotkeys is all of a sudden going to make a player macro better? Common man it won't effect balance at all. Timings are going to be the exact same, macro is going to be the exact thing.
Now if they increased selection limit or added MBS you have a good argument. But putting overlord to V or putting a muta to T is not going to change anything at all.
I would bet money that changing hotkeys wouldn't effect the game at all in terms of balance or builds.
On May 11 2017 19:40 onlystar wrote: You need verification on endymions post? Just use youre brain any bw player who played competitively can understand this
Thx endymion for spitting the truth
I used to play BW competitively and no you are wrong lol.
Hitting "o" for m[i]nes and "i" for siege m[o]de happened pretty often with me, just to come up with an example, back in the days I really wished for some workaround, but I got used to it, or at least kind of. I`d argue with Endymion`s opinion that remapping keys wouldn`t make current trends topsy-turvy, but It`d surely affect things to a certain degree, I`m pretty positive about that. As for the 1.18 and Remastered games what direction will take, I couldn`t care less, but it makes me angry that our tiny scene is tearing apart because all of this shit.
On May 11 2017 17:52 Endymion wrote: 1.18 is already hated enough as is in korea for splitting fish and the ASL drama while being inferior to 1.16, if they add rebindable hotkeys it'll just be even more dead... the thing is, korea doesn't need or want "QOL" adjustments for d- players that think it's hard to hit o for overlord.. they also don't need or want input issues or a new dependency on blizzard for servers/updates when sc2 is still plagued with maphack and bnet .20. 1.18 is a charade given that we have a perfect game already in 1.16, a game that has been available for free for the past like 15+ years..
and yes, hotkeys do affect balance, how can you even argue that decreasing the mechanical difficulty of a game so dependent on mechanical proficiency wouldn't affect balance? maybe a new hotkey setup for terran would make them easy as hell to play? for instance, having all of your control groups on 1234qwert, maybe controlling 9 control groups of bio would be retardedly easy to play, making skterran the dominant build? or zerg, which routinely use all 9 control groups and vision hot keys? it's not a QOL 'improvement', it's a fundamental change to the game which is why it has been banned from ladders for those 15 years+ that 1.16 has been free..
You think rebinding hotkeys is all of a sudden going to make a player macro better? Common man it won't effect balance at all. Timings are going to be the exact same, macro is going to be the exact thing.
Now if they increased selection limit or added MBS you have a good argument. But putting overlord to V or putting a muta to T is not going to change anything at all.
I would bet money that changing hotkeys wouldn't effect the game at all in terms of balance or builds.
On May 11 2017 19:40 onlystar wrote: You need verification on endymions post? Just use youre brain any bw player who played competitively can understand this
Thx endymion for spitting the truth
I used to play BW competitively and no you are wrong lol.
Facts: Hotkey rebinding is inevitably coming. It reduces the menial task of reaching across keyboard for certain commands. It will help those who are new at the game and those who are poor with typing (albeit marginally).
And to reply to Endymion: the premise that because hotkey remapping been banned for 15+ years therefore it is a fundamental change is incorrect. It was banned because it required manipulation of the game/code. Now they will be implementing it.
Analysis: Hotkey rebinding will not make the game any better or worse. It will not affect balance, because it is an external factor, not within the game. Bads will be bad regardless of this upcoming addition.
In the game of BW, you either know what you're doing, or you don't. It's not a matter of how efficiently you can make press a button to send a command, it's knowing which commands to make. lol @ SK terran style will be dominant if you can remap to 1234qwert. Enough berating - Get some experience with playing games and you will learn that hotkey remapping is strictly for preference, it won't improve in-game skill. Pro's know what they're doing and can execute just fine. Not being good with hotkeys is no excuse for skill barrier.
It's safe to assume hotkey rebinding makes micro intensive strategies a little more feasible. I wish they'd ban the topic of hotkey rebinding too many people are ignorant about it's unimportance.
On May 11 2017 17:52 Endymion wrote: 1.18 is already hated enough as is in korea for splitting fish and the ASL drama while being inferior to 1.16, if they add rebindable hotkeys it'll just be even more dead... the thing is, korea doesn't need or want "QOL" adjustments for d- players that think it's hard to hit o for overlord.. they also don't need or want input issues or a new dependency on blizzard for servers/updates when sc2 is still plagued with maphack and bnet .20. 1.18 is a charade given that we have a perfect game already in 1.16, a game that has been available for free for the past like 15+ years..
and yes, hotkeys do affect balance, how can you even argue that decreasing the mechanical difficulty of a game so dependent on mechanical proficiency wouldn't affect balance? maybe a new hotkey setup for terran would make them easy as hell to play? for instance, having all of your control groups on 1234qwert, maybe controlling 9 control groups of bio would be retardedly easy to play, making skterran the dominant build? or zerg, which routinely use all 9 control groups and vision hot keys? it's not a QOL 'improvement', it's a fundamental change to the game which is why it has been banned from ladders for those 15 years+ that 1.16 has been free..
You think rebinding hotkeys is all of a sudden going to make a player macro better? Common man it won't effect balance at all. Timings are going to be the exact same, macro is going to be the exact thing.
Now if they increased selection limit or added MBS you have a good argument. But putting overlord to V or putting a muta to T is not going to change anything at all.
I would bet money that changing hotkeys wouldn't effect the game at all in terms of balance or builds.
On May 11 2017 19:40 onlystar wrote: You need verification on endymions post? Just use youre brain any bw player who played competitively can understand this
Thx endymion for spitting the truth
I used to play BW competitively and no you are wrong lol.
Facts: Hotkey rebinding is inevitably coming. It reduces the menial task of reaching across keyboard for certain commands. It will help those who are new at the game and those who are poor with typing (albeit marginally).
And to reply to Endymion: the premise that because hotkey remapping been banned for 15+ years therefore it is a fundamental change is incorrect. It was banned because it required manipulation of the game/code. Now they will be implementing it.
Analysis: Hotkey rebinding will not make the game any better or worse. It will not affect balance, because it is an external factor, not within the game. Bads will be bad regardless of this upcoming addition.
In the game of BW, you either know what you're doing, or you don't. It's not a matter of how efficiently you can make press a button to send a command, it's knowing which commands to make. lol @ SK terran style will be dominant if you can remap to 1234qwert. Enough berating - Get some experience with playing games and you will learn that hotkey remapping is strictly for preference, it won't improve in-game skill. Pro's know what they're doing and can execute just fine. Not being good with hotkeys is no excuse for skill barrier.
no, no and no korea will not accept a patch like this you dont get this by now?
the post is contradicting yourself mate, read it again
edit LOL...mediocore foreigners displaying their ''knowlegde'' about balance hotkeys and gamedynamics in this topic got to love foreigners scene <3
On May 11 2017 17:52 Endymion wrote: 1.18 is already hated enough as is in korea for splitting fish and the ASL drama while being inferior to 1.16, if they add rebindable hotkeys it'll just be even more dead... the thing is, korea doesn't need or want "QOL" adjustments for d- players that think it's hard to hit o for overlord.. they also don't need or want input issues or a new dependency on blizzard for servers/updates when sc2 is still plagued with maphack and bnet .20. 1.18 is a charade given that we have a perfect game already in 1.16, a game that has been available for free for the past like 15+ years..
and yes, hotkeys do affect balance, how can you even argue that decreasing the mechanical difficulty of a game so dependent on mechanical proficiency wouldn't affect balance? maybe a new hotkey setup for terran would make them easy as hell to play? for instance, having all of your control groups on 1234qwert, maybe controlling 9 control groups of bio would be retardedly easy to play, making skterran the dominant build? or zerg, which routinely use all 9 control groups and vision hot keys? it's not a QOL 'improvement', it's a fundamental change to the game which is why it has been banned from ladders for those 15 years+ that 1.16 has been free..
You think rebinding hotkeys is all of a sudden going to make a player macro better? Common man it won't effect balance at all. Timings are going to be the exact same, macro is going to be the exact thing.
Now if they increased selection limit or added MBS you have a good argument. But putting overlord to V or putting a muta to T is not going to change anything at all.
I would bet money that changing hotkeys wouldn't effect the game at all in terms of balance or builds.
On May 11 2017 19:40 onlystar wrote: You need verification on endymions post? Just use youre brain any bw player who played competitively can understand this
Thx endymion for spitting the truth
I used to play BW competitively and no you are wrong lol.
Facts: Hotkey rebinding is inevitably coming. It reduces the menial task of reaching across keyboard for certain commands. It will help those who are new at the game and those who are poor with typing (albeit marginally).
And to reply to Endymion: the premise that because hotkey remapping been banned for 15+ years therefore it is a fundamental change is incorrect. It was banned because it required manipulation of the game/code. Now they will be implementing it.
Analysis: Hotkey rebinding will not make the game any better or worse. It will not affect balance, because it is an external factor, not within the game. Bads will be bad regardless of this upcoming addition.
In the game of BW, you either know what you're doing, or you don't. It's not a matter of how efficiently you can make press a button to send a command, it's knowing which commands to make. lol @ SK terran style will be dominant if you can remap to 1234qwert. Enough berating - Get some experience with playing games and you will learn that hotkey remapping is strictly for preference, it won't improve in-game skill. Pro's know what they're doing and can execute just fine. Not being good with hotkeys is no excuse for skill barrier.
no, no and no korea will not accept a patch like this you dont get this by now?
the post is contradicting yourself mate, read it again
edit LOL...mediocore foreigners displaying their ''knowlegde'' about balance hotkeys and gamedynamics in this topic got to love foreigners scene <3
Blizz said hotkey remapping is in development, so yes, it is coming. Saying no no no doesn't keep the scary monsters under your bed from coming out at night. Hotkey remapping is a move on mentality. Koreans are prideful of the fact that they grind enough to get good at hotkeys as they are. Foreigners want things to be easier. It's a tug of war.
There is no contradiction. Don't just scoff and be condescending without making a point. There is a distinct differentiation between "these two keys are closer together" and "these two keys being closer together breaks the game". Don't conflate the two.
ultimately blizzard can devolp something they are bound on acceptance of the korean scene/pro scene that is in place right now (remapping hotkeys will not be accepted in korean pro scene) they know this you did not no big deal now u know
On May 11 2017 17:52 Endymion wrote: 1.18 is already hated enough as is in korea for splitting fish and the ASL drama while being inferior to 1.16, if they add rebindable hotkeys it'll just be even more dead... the thing is, korea doesn't need or want "QOL" adjustments for d- players that think it's hard to hit o for overlord.. they also don't need or want input issues or a new dependency on blizzard for servers/updates when sc2 is still plagued with maphack and bnet .20. 1.18 is a charade given that we have a perfect game already in 1.16, a game that has been available for free for the past like 15+ years..
and yes, hotkeys do affect balance, how can you even argue that decreasing the mechanical difficulty of a game so dependent on mechanical proficiency wouldn't affect balance? maybe a new hotkey setup for terran would make them easy as hell to play? for instance, having all of your control groups on 1234qwert, maybe controlling 9 control groups of bio would be retardedly easy to play, making skterran the dominant build? or zerg, which routinely use all 9 control groups and vision hot keys? it's not a QOL 'improvement', it's a fundamental change to the game which is why it has been banned from ladders for those 15 years+ that 1.16 has been free..
You think rebinding hotkeys is all of a sudden going to make a player macro better? Common man it won't effect balance at all. Timings are going to be the exact same, macro is going to be the exact thing.
Now if they increased selection limit or added MBS you have a good argument. But putting overlord to V or putting a muta to T is not going to change anything at all.
I would bet money that changing hotkeys wouldn't effect the game at all in terms of balance or builds.
On May 11 2017 19:40 onlystar wrote: You need verification on endymions post? Just use youre brain any bw player who played competitively can understand this
Thx endymion for spitting the truth
I used to play BW competitively and no you are wrong lol.
Facts: Hotkey rebinding is inevitably coming. I
And to reply to Endymion: the premise that because hotkey remapping been banned for 15+ years therefore it is a fundamental change is incorrect. It was banned because it required manipulation of the game/code. Now they will be implementing it.
Analysis: Hotkey rebinding will not make the game any better or worse. It will not affect balance, because it is an external factor, not within the game. Bads will be bad regardless of this upcoming addition.
In the game of BW, you either know what you're doing, or you don't. It's not a matter of how efficiently you can make press a button to send a command, it's knowing which commands to make. lol @ SK terran style will be dominant if you can remap to 1234qwert. Enough berating - Get some experience with playing games and you will learn that hotkey remapping is strictly for preference, it won't improve in-game skill. Pro's know what they're doing and can execute just fine. Not being good with hotkeys is no excuse for skill barrier.
okay at first your saying ''it reduces the menial task of reaching across keyboard for certain commands. It will help those who are new at the game and those who are poor with typing (albeit marginally).''
than in contradictionairy your saying ''It will not affect balance, because it is an external factor, not within the game. Bads will be bad regardless of this upcoming addition. ''
so.. lol youre saying it will be easier to hotkey stuff for people that are bad at mechanicall play.. there you have it it lowers the skill ceiling for mechanical play keyboard/handspeed. where you get youre logic is beyond me.
as said and ill explain it to you again since you're too ignorant to understand it from endymions post:
if you can hotkey 12345/qwert to unitgroups zerg have an incredible boost in their 200/200 attacks since it is so much easier(and in most cases faster and takes less stamina from the finger/hands)to make a perfect surround/timing with 200/200. same goes for the SKT-terran style it does effect the game DIRECTLY it can not be denied ALL pro-gamers will give you this explanation go ask scan. again mechanical is almost 50% of the skill in BW are you playing sc2 or something where u get this stuff from? hotkey remapping will effect how the races perform across the board.
I fail to understand how key rebinding would not be accepted by pros. Like, I could understand if it meant you get new vision hotkeys or more ctrl groups or something that would actually affect macro, but otherwise wouldn't this help a lot of pros with their RSI / Carpal Tunnel potentially? There is no other competitive game in the world this resistant to interface change of this sort for its own sake. I'm not talking about stuff that obviously doees like MBS, but just key rebinding should probably be allowed.
Like for example, if someone wanted to use an AZERTY keyboard instead of QWERTY is that banned by KeSPA? What if it's technically a QWERTY keyboard but with all the non-useful keys for a given race removed? That's legal, right? Now what if someone manufactured a keyboard like that from the factory? What if they did so but they made all the non-relevant keys really small, so that the important keys are larger and closer together?
The moral of the story is the reasoning and logic for the this stuff is ridiculous or riddled with fallacies and potential for abuse. But the real point is that obviously it doesn't affect the competitive nature of the game because 99.9999% of being good at Brood War is mental and/or involving sequencing of actions.
Frankly there's many good reasons to not like 1.18 in its current form, but eventually Blizzard's devs work will pay off and they will happen upon a stable build that has all the features and performance anyone could want and that is virtually indistinguishable from 1.16.1 in pure gameplay. At that point the question of which non-gameplay features people care about does need to be addressed. Until then I hope they fix the performance and command recognition issues that are plaguing current builds.
Onlystar, I honestly don't think being able to rebind keys would so significantly change the sped of execution of players at the top level. The only reason we even want this feature is because of people with very small/large hands and for whom reaching across the keys is physically stressful / taxing. Sure you could argue this is part of the game, but then you sound like the idiots who argue that playing American football is just fine and that no brain damage is done from head collisions. This more has to do with the physical stress on the wrist and hands and the potential nerve damage / lack of comfort of some of the stretches necessary to play the game. Somehow I don't think have 1-5 and q-t wouild actually be any faster than than 1-10, it's just more stressful/damaging to the hands for no reason.
And that doesn't even get in to the slippery slope arguments of what kind of keyboards KeSPA accepts. If someone were to design a keyboard with uneven sized keys, or with a slightly different than normal shape for example, specifically for SCBW, would they ban that? What about a smaller-than-normal keyboard? Would that be banned possibly for giving an advantage?
On May 12 2017 05:10 SirKibbleX wrote: I fail to understand how key rebinding would not be accepted by pros. Like, I could understand if it meant you get new vision hotkeys or more ctrl groups or something that would actually affect macro, but otherwise wouldn't this help a lot of pros with their RSI / Carpal Tunnel potentially? There is no other competitive game in the world this resistant to interface change of this sort for its own sake. I'm not talking about stuff that obviously doees like MBS, but just key rebinding should probably be allowed.
Like for example, if someone wanted to use an AZERTY keyboard instead of QWERTY is that banned by KeSPA? What if it's technically a QWERTY keyboard but with all the non-useful keys for a given race removed? That's legal, right? Now what if someone manufactured a keyboard like that from the factory? What if they did so but they made all the non-relevant keys really small, so that the important keys are larger and closer together?
The moral of the story is the reasoning and logic for the this stuff is ridiculous or riddled with fallacies and potential for abuse. But the real point is that obviously it doesn't affect the competitive nature of the game because 99.9999% of being good at Brood War is mental and/or involving sequencing of actions.
Frankly there's many good reasons to not like 1.18 in its current form, but eventually Blizzard's devs work will pay off and they will happen upon a stable build that has all the features and performance anyone could want and that is virtually indistinguishable from 1.16.1 in pure gameplay. At that point the question of which non-gameplay features people care about does need to be addressed. Until then I hope they fix the performance and command recognition issues that are plaguing current builds.
''But the real point is that obviously it doesn't affect the competitive nature of the game because 99.9999% of being good at Brood War is mental and/or involving sequencing of actions.''
this is untrue having top tier mechanics will determine for 50% maybe 70% how good you are at terran for example, along with knowing the right timings factories when to expo right counters knowing what youre opponent is doing game sense etc and as you're saying mental/strategic/swquencing of actions
edit: ill try to explain it more basically lowering the skill ceiling on mechanical play has an effect on one race more than the other, one of the hardest things in BW is to time (hotkey mechanics) a perfect attack with a maxed out zerg (timing in a sense that all the units will arrive/attack/surround at the front of the battlefield at the same time and not like its gets there in smaller chunks of groups if that makes sense. its so apm intensive so mechanically demanding you are changing the requirements for one to have these top tier mechanics and changing the apm/hand/finger intensity the player needs to exacute this. so obviously this will have an impact on how zergs (maxed out battles) will span out >is a direct effect ingame. SKT-terran maybe some one else can explain that better its as said one of the highest APM/mechanic intensitive builds and will be played better across the board because this build is so mechanical demanding and we lowered the skill ceiling for this build. (the build was almost never played ''flawlessly'' on pro-level) it will be played better across all skill levels after allowing hotkey remapping.
so there.. mechanics are an incredibly important part of BW that is why..
On May 11 2017 17:52 Endymion wrote: 1.18 is already hated enough as is in korea for splitting fish and the ASL drama while being inferior to 1.16, if they add rebindable hotkeys it'll just be even more dead... the thing is, korea doesn't need or want "QOL" adjustments for d- players that think it's hard to hit o for overlord.. they also don't need or want input issues or a new dependency on blizzard for servers/updates when sc2 is still plagued with maphack and bnet .20. 1.18 is a charade given that we have a perfect game already in 1.16, a game that has been available for free for the past like 15+ years..
and yes, hotkeys do affect balance, how can you even argue that decreasing the mechanical difficulty of a game so dependent on mechanical proficiency wouldn't affect balance? maybe a new hotkey setup for terran would make them easy as hell to play? for instance, having all of your control groups on 1234qwert, maybe controlling 9 control groups of bio would be retardedly easy to play, making skterran the dominant build? or zerg, which routinely use all 9 control groups and vision hot keys? it's not a QOL 'improvement', it's a fundamental change to the game which is why it has been banned from ladders for those 15 years+ that 1.16 has been free..
You think rebinding hotkeys is all of a sudden going to make a player macro better? Common man it won't effect balance at all. Timings are going to be the exact same, macro is going to be the exact thing.
Now if they increased selection limit or added MBS you have a good argument. But putting overlord to V or putting a muta to T is not going to change anything at all.
I would bet money that changing hotkeys wouldn't effect the game at all in terms of balance or builds.
On May 11 2017 19:40 onlystar wrote: You need verification on endymions post? Just use youre brain any bw player who played competitively can understand this
Thx endymion for spitting the truth
I used to play BW competitively and no you are wrong lol.
Facts: Hotkey rebinding is inevitably coming. It reduces the menial task of reaching across keyboard for certain commands. It will help those who are new at the game and those who are poor with typing (albeit marginally).
And to reply to Endymion: the premise that because hotkey remapping been banned for 15+ years therefore it is a fundamental change is incorrect. It was banned because it required manipulation of the game/code. Now they will be implementing it.
Analysis: Hotkey rebinding will not make the game any better or worse. It will not affect balance, because it is an external factor, not within the game. Bads will be bad regardless of this upcoming addition.
In the game of BW, you either know what you're doing, or you don't. It's not a matter of how efficiently you can make press a button to send a command, it's knowing which commands to make. lol @ SK terran style will be dominant if you can remap to 1234qwert. Enough berating - Get some experience with playing games and you will learn that hotkey remapping is strictly for preference, it won't improve in-game skill. Pro's know what they're doing and can execute just fine. Not being good with hotkeys is no excuse for skill barrier.
no, no and no korea will not accept a patch like this you dont get this by now?
the post is contradicting yourself mate, read it again
edit LOL...mediocore foreigners displaying their ''knowlegde'' about balance hotkeys and gamedynamics in this topic got to love foreigners scene <3
Blizz said hotkey remapping is in development, so yes, it is coming. Saying no no no doesn't keep the scary monsters under your bed from coming out at night. Hotkey remapping is a move on mentality. Koreans are prideful of the fact that they grind enough to get good at hotkeys as they are. Foreigners want things to be easier. It's a tug of war.
There is no contradiction. Don't just scoff and be condescending without making a point. There is a distinct differentiation between "these two keys are closer together" and "these two keys being closer together breaks the game". Don't conflate the two.
You asked koreans? I've yet to hear a korean say they dislike the change. Seems to be mostly western elitists who dislike it. I could be wrong though.
On May 11 2017 17:52 Endymion wrote: 1.18 is already hated enough as is in korea for splitting fish and the ASL drama while being inferior to 1.16, if they add rebindable hotkeys it'll just be even more dead... the thing is, korea doesn't need or want "QOL" adjustments for d- players that think it's hard to hit o for overlord.. they also don't need or want input issues or a new dependency on blizzard for servers/updates when sc2 is still plagued with maphack and bnet .20. 1.18 is a charade given that we have a perfect game already in 1.16, a game that has been available for free for the past like 15+ years..
and yes, hotkeys do affect balance, how can you even argue that decreasing the mechanical difficulty of a game so dependent on mechanical proficiency wouldn't affect balance? maybe a new hotkey setup for terran would make them easy as hell to play? for instance, having all of your control groups on 1234qwert, maybe controlling 9 control groups of bio would be retardedly easy to play, making skterran the dominant build? or zerg, which routinely use all 9 control groups and vision hot keys? it's not a QOL 'improvement', it's a fundamental change to the game which is why it has been banned from ladders for those 15 years+ that 1.16 has been free..
You think rebinding hotkeys is all of a sudden going to make a player macro better? Common man it won't effect balance at all. Timings are going to be the exact same, macro is going to be the exact thing.
Now if they increased selection limit or added MBS you have a good argument. But putting overlord to V or putting a muta to T is not going to change anything at all.
I would bet money that changing hotkeys wouldn't effect the game at all in terms of balance or builds.
On May 11 2017 19:40 onlystar wrote: You need verification on endymions post? Just use youre brain any bw player who played competitively can understand this
Thx endymion for spitting the truth
I used to play BW competitively and no you are wrong lol.
Facts: Hotkey rebinding is inevitably coming. It reduces the menial task of reaching across keyboard for certain commands. It will help those who are new at the game and those who are poor with typing (albeit marginally).
And to reply to Endymion: the premise that because hotkey remapping been banned for 15+ years therefore it is a fundamental change is incorrect. It was banned because it required manipulation of the game/code. Now they will be implementing it.
Analysis: Hotkey rebinding will not make the game any better or worse. It will not affect balance, because it is an external factor, not within the game. Bads will be bad regardless of this upcoming addition.
In the game of BW, you either know what you're doing, or you don't. It's not a matter of how efficiently you can make press a button to send a command, it's knowing which commands to make. lol @ SK terran style will be dominant if you can remap to 1234qwert. Enough berating - Get some experience with playing games and you will learn that hotkey remapping is strictly for preference, it won't improve in-game skill. Pro's know what they're doing and can execute just fine. Not being good with hotkeys is no excuse for skill barrier.
no, no and no korea will not accept a patch like this you dont get this by now?
the post is contradicting yourself mate, read it again
edit LOL...mediocore foreigners displaying their ''knowlegde'' about balance hotkeys and gamedynamics in this topic got to love foreigners scene <3
Except some pro gamers have said that SC should get with the 21st century already and implement custom hot keys. It's very low on their priority list of desiderata because they think it won't affect them all that much (already too used to current keys and current pool of amateurs are too far behind in skill to narrow the gap), but it will help beginners.
Korea is not some monolithic entity with a single opinion. Also, you are talking about knowledge at a level that no one possesses. Everyone is free to speculate on such things, even "mediocre foreigners". If you're too high and mighty for the opinions of "mediocre foreigners", I invite you to explore the cesspool that is YGosu, where the sagacious Koreans let the shitposts flow as if they were diarrhea.
On May 11 2017 17:52 Endymion wrote: 1.18 is already hated enough as is in korea for splitting fish and the ASL drama while being inferior to 1.16, if they add rebindable hotkeys it'll just be even more dead... the thing is, korea doesn't need or want "QOL" adjustments for d- players that think it's hard to hit o for overlord.. they also don't need or want input issues or a new dependency on blizzard for servers/updates when sc2 is still plagued with maphack and bnet .20. 1.18 is a charade given that we have a perfect game already in 1.16, a game that has been available for free for the past like 15+ years..
and yes, hotkeys do affect balance, how can you even argue that decreasing the mechanical difficulty of a game so dependent on mechanical proficiency wouldn't affect balance? maybe a new hotkey setup for terran would make them easy as hell to play? for instance, having all of your control groups on 1234qwert, maybe controlling 9 control groups of bio would be retardedly easy to play, making skterran the dominant build? or zerg, which routinely use all 9 control groups and vision hot keys? it's not a QOL 'improvement', it's a fundamental change to the game which is why it has been banned from ladders for those 15 years+ that 1.16 has been free..
You think rebinding hotkeys is all of a sudden going to make a player macro better? Common man it won't effect balance at all. Timings are going to be the exact same, macro is going to be the exact thing.
Now if they increased selection limit or added MBS you have a good argument. But putting overlord to V or putting a muta to T is not going to change anything at all.
I would bet money that changing hotkeys wouldn't effect the game at all in terms of balance or builds.
On May 11 2017 19:40 onlystar wrote: You need verification on endymions post? Just use youre brain any bw player who played competitively can understand this
Thx endymion for spitting the truth
I used to play BW competitively and no you are wrong lol.
Facts: Hotkey rebinding is inevitably coming. It reduces the menial task of reaching across keyboard for certain commands. It will help those who are new at the game and those who are poor with typing (albeit marginally).
And to reply to Endymion: the premise that because hotkey remapping been banned for 15+ years therefore it is a fundamental change is incorrect. It was banned because it required manipulation of the game/code. Now they will be implementing it.
Analysis: Hotkey rebinding will not make the game any better or worse. It will not affect balance, because it is an external factor, not within the game. Bads will be bad regardless of this upcoming addition.
In the game of BW, you either know what you're doing, or you don't. It's not a matter of how efficiently you can make press a button to send a command, it's knowing which commands to make. lol @ SK terran style will be dominant if you can remap to 1234qwert. Enough berating - Get some experience with playing games and you will learn that hotkey remapping is strictly for preference, it won't improve in-game skill. Pro's know what they're doing and can execute just fine. Not being good with hotkeys is no excuse for skill barrier.
no, no and no korea will not accept a patch like this you dont get this by now?
the post is contradicting yourself mate, read it again
edit LOL...mediocore foreigners displaying their ''knowlegde'' about balance hotkeys and gamedynamics in this topic got to love foreigners scene <3
Korea already has accepted the patch, and the notion of hotkey rebinding. Sorry.
On May 11 2017 17:52 Endymion wrote: 1.18 is already hated enough as is in korea for splitting fish and the ASL drama while being inferior to 1.16, if they add rebindable hotkeys it'll just be even more dead... the thing is, korea doesn't need or want "QOL" adjustments for d- players that think it's hard to hit o for overlord.. they also don't need or want input issues or a new dependency on blizzard for servers/updates when sc2 is still plagued with maphack and bnet .20. 1.18 is a charade given that we have a perfect game already in 1.16, a game that has been available for free for the past like 15+ years..
and yes, hotkeys do affect balance, how can you even argue that decreasing the mechanical difficulty of a game so dependent on mechanical proficiency wouldn't affect balance? maybe a new hotkey setup for terran would make them easy as hell to play? for instance, having all of your control groups on 1234qwert, maybe controlling 9 control groups of bio would be retardedly easy to play, making skterran the dominant build? or zerg, which routinely use all 9 control groups and vision hot keys? it's not a QOL 'improvement', it's a fundamental change to the game which is why it has been banned from ladders for those 15 years+ that 1.16 has been free..
You think rebinding hotkeys is all of a sudden going to make a player macro better? Common man it won't effect balance at all. Timings are going to be the exact same, macro is going to be the exact thing.
Now if they increased selection limit or added MBS you have a good argument. But putting overlord to V or putting a muta to T is not going to change anything at all.
I would bet money that changing hotkeys wouldn't effect the game at all in terms of balance or builds.
On May 11 2017 19:40 onlystar wrote: You need verification on endymions post? Just use youre brain any bw player who played competitively can understand this
Thx endymion for spitting the truth
I used to play BW competitively and no you are wrong lol.
Facts: Hotkey rebinding is inevitably coming. It reduces the menial task of reaching across keyboard for certain commands. It will help those who are new at the game and those who are poor with typing (albeit marginally).
And to reply to Endymion: the premise that because hotkey remapping been banned for 15+ years therefore it is a fundamental change is incorrect. It was banned because it required manipulation of the game/code. Now they will be implementing it.
Analysis: Hotkey rebinding will not make the game any better or worse. It will not affect balance, because it is an external factor, not within the game. Bads will be bad regardless of this upcoming addition.
In the game of BW, you either know what you're doing, or you don't. It's not a matter of how efficiently you can make press a button to send a command, it's knowing which commands to make. lol @ SK terran style will be dominant if you can remap to 1234qwert. Enough berating - Get some experience with playing games and you will learn that hotkey remapping is strictly for preference, it won't improve in-game skill. Pro's know what they're doing and can execute just fine. Not being good with hotkeys is no excuse for skill barrier.
no, no and no korea will not accept a patch like this you dont get this by now?
the post is contradicting yourself mate, read it again
edit LOL...mediocore foreigners displaying their ''knowlegde'' about balance hotkeys and gamedynamics in this topic got to love foreigners scene <3
Aaaand the most arrogant post in the thread goes to...
On May 11 2017 06:02 erin[go]bragh wrote: Can someone explain to me why custom hotkeys would effect balance at all? If you're able to type without looking at your keyboard it seems you're unaffected by this kind of thing. And while things like the 12 unit selection limit were conscious balance decisions, as far as I know this is not how they chose hotkeys. Marine starts with M, so their hotkey is "M." Medic is C because M was taken by Marine. I don't think they made the hotkey for lings "Z" because they thought it would be more balanced to give zergs that kind of hotkey closer to their resting position.
I mean would anyone think they lost a ZvZ because their opponent cheated by pressing V for their Overlords instead of O? It just seems like such an easy way to ease both returning and new players into BW whilst having at most a minuscule effect on balance.
I think it is hard to say exactly how it would affect the overall balance. I know that as an A level terran player, changing the hotkeys for mines and tanks would make it easier to push vs protoss. Even just changing the siege mode hotkey from o to s would make it a lot easier for me to control marine/tank pushes in tvz. They might seem like very minor changes, but they would affect the game play and the skill level required to perform different mechanics would decrease. It is possible that it would create real imbalances by making it possible for some types of micro to be abused.
I also don't really buy the arguments in favor of changing the hotkeys. Brood War will be a very mechanically challenging game regardless of whether or not custom hotkeys are implemented. To play Brood War well you really need 200+ apm and at that level I don't think anyone is concerned with where the hot keys are. This seems like a change that is wanted by newer players, that wouldn't affect low level games, but could destroy the balance at higher levels, where I don't think this change is really wanted.
On May 11 2017 06:02 erin[go]bragh wrote: Can someone explain to me why custom hotkeys would effect balance at all? If you're able to type without looking at your keyboard it seems you're unaffected by this kind of thing. And while things like the 12 unit selection limit were conscious balance decisions, as far as I know this is not how they chose hotkeys. Marine starts with M, so their hotkey is "M." Medic is C because M was taken by Marine. I don't think they made the hotkey for lings "Z" because they thought it would be more balanced to give zergs that kind of hotkey closer to their resting position.
I mean would anyone think they lost a ZvZ because their opponent cheated by pressing V for their Overlords instead of O? It just seems like such an easy way to ease both returning and new players into BW whilst having at most a minuscule effect on balance.
I think it is hard to say exactly how it would affect the overall balance. I know that as an A level terran player, changing the hotkeys for mines and tanks would make it easier to push vs protoss. Even just changing the siege mode hotkey from o to s would make it a lot easier for me to control marine/tank pushes in tvz. They might seem like very minor changes, but they would affect the game play and the skill level required to perform different mechanics would decrease. It is possible that it would create real imbalances by making it possible for some types of micro to be abused.
I also don't really buy the arguments in favor of changing the hotkeys. Brood War will be a very mechanically challenging game regardless of whether or not custom hotkeys are implemented. To play Brood War well you really need 200+ apm and at that level I don't think anyone is concerned with where the hot keys are. This seems like a change that is wanted by newer players, that wouldn't affect low level games, but could destroy the balance at higher levels, where I don't think this change is really wanted.
On May 11 2017 06:02 erin[go]bragh wrote: Can someone explain to me why custom hotkeys would effect balance at all? If you're able to type without looking at your keyboard it seems you're unaffected by this kind of thing. And while things like the 12 unit selection limit were conscious balance decisions, as far as I know this is not how they chose hotkeys. Marine starts with M, so their hotkey is "M." Medic is C because M was taken by Marine. I don't think they made the hotkey for lings "Z" because they thought it would be more balanced to give zergs that kind of hotkey closer to their resting position.
I mean would anyone think they lost a ZvZ because their opponent cheated by pressing V for their Overlords instead of O? It just seems like such an easy way to ease both returning and new players into BW whilst having at most a minuscule effect on balance.
I think it is hard to say exactly how it would affect the overall balance. I know that as an A level terran player, changing the hotkeys for mines and tanks would make it easier to push vs protoss. Even just changing the siege mode hotkey from o to s would make it a lot easier for me to control marine/tank pushes in tvz. They might seem like very minor changes, but they would affect the game play and the skill level required to perform different mechanics would decrease. It is possible that it would create real imbalances by making it possible for some types of micro to be abused.
I also don't really buy the arguments in favor of changing the hotkeys. Brood War will be a very mechanically challenging game regardless of whether or not custom hotkeys are implemented. To play Brood War well you really need 200+ apm and at that level I don't think anyone is concerned with where the hot keys are. This seems like a change that is wanted by newer players, that wouldn't affect low level games, but could destroy the balance at higher levels, where I don't think this change is really wanted.
It would affect low level games a lot by making the gameplay smoother. Having hotkeys closer together makes the gameplay for people not having 200+ apm more fun. Without fun people will not stay and play the game.
On May 11 2017 17:52 Endymion wrote: 1.18 is already hated enough as is in korea for splitting fish and the ASL drama while being inferior to 1.16, if they add rebindable hotkeys it'll just be even more dead... the thing is, korea doesn't need or want "QOL" adjustments for d- players that think it's hard to hit o for overlord.. they also don't need or want input issues or a new dependency on blizzard for servers/updates when sc2 is still plagued with maphack and bnet .20. 1.18 is a charade given that we have a perfect game already in 1.16, a game that has been available for free for the past like 15+ years..
and yes, hotkeys do affect balance, how can you even argue that decreasing the mechanical difficulty of a game so dependent on mechanical proficiency wouldn't affect balance? maybe a new hotkey setup for terran would make them easy as hell to play? for instance, having all of your control groups on 1234qwert, maybe controlling 9 control groups of bio would be retardedly easy to play, making skterran the dominant build? or zerg, which routinely use all 9 control groups and vision hot keys? it's not a QOL 'improvement', it's a fundamental change to the game which is why it has been banned from ladders for those 15 years+ that 1.16 has been free..
You think rebinding hotkeys is all of a sudden going to make a player macro better? Common man it won't effect balance at all. Timings are going to be the exact same, macro is going to be the exact thing.
Now if they increased selection limit or added MBS you have a good argument. But putting overlord to V or putting a muta to T is not going to change anything at all.
I would bet money that changing hotkeys wouldn't effect the game at all in terms of balance or builds.
On May 11 2017 19:40 onlystar wrote: You need verification on endymions post? Just use youre brain any bw player who played competitively can understand this
Thx endymion for spitting the truth
I used to play BW competitively and no you are wrong lol.
Facts: Hotkey rebinding is inevitably coming. I
And to reply to Endymion: the premise that because hotkey remapping been banned for 15+ years therefore it is a fundamental change is incorrect. It was banned because it required manipulation of the game/code. Now they will be implementing it.
Analysis: Hotkey rebinding will not make the game any better or worse. It will not affect balance, because it is an external factor, not within the game. Bads will be bad regardless of this upcoming addition.
In the game of BW, you either know what you're doing, or you don't. It's not a matter of how efficiently you can make press a button to send a command, it's knowing which commands to make. lol @ SK terran style will be dominant if you can remap to 1234qwert. Enough berating - Get some experience with playing games and you will learn that hotkey remapping is strictly for preference, it won't improve in-game skill. Pro's know what they're doing and can execute just fine. Not being good with hotkeys is no excuse for skill barrier.
okay at first your saying ''it reduces the menial task of reaching across keyboard for certain commands. It will help those who are new at the game and those who are poor with typing (albeit marginally).''
than in contradictionairy your saying ''It will not affect balance, because it is an external factor, not within the game. Bads will be bad regardless of this upcoming addition. ''
so.. lol youre saying it will be easier to hotkey stuff for people that are bad at mechanicall play.. there you have it it lowers the skill ceiling for mechanical play keyboard/handspeed. where you get youre logic is beyond me.
as said and ill explain it to you again since you're too ignorant to understand it from endymions post:
if you can hotkey 12345/qwert to unitgroups zerg have an incredible boost in their 200/200 attacks since it is so much easier(and in most cases faster and takes less stamina from the finger/hands)to make a perfect surround/timing with 200/200. same goes for the SKT-terran style it does effect the game DIRECTLY it can not be denied ALL pro-gamers will give you this explanation go ask scan. again mechanical is almost 50% of the skill in BW are you playing sc2 or something where u get this stuff from? hotkey remapping will effect how the races perform across the board.
Again, it's not a contradiction. It's a moot point to say that if you are able to choose your hotkeys subject to the preference of each person, it will make desired actions easier. That is of course the case, by definition. Hotkey remapping won't increase skill ceilings. However, you don't want to conflate the obvious point with the idea that the game will break if you implement this.
I believe that we can at least agree that D ranks won't become C just because they can do some wrong action faster. At the middle ranks, there will still be a mix of player skills. At the high ranks, it's currently indeterminable, but it will probably make some changes. Some actions may be faster and easier, but it's hard to say how it will affect the game as a whole. High skilled players are very good at making adjustments, even at the stake of the meta.
If zerg can remap 12345qwert for 200/200, so can terran. Every race and every person can benefit from personalizing hotkeys.
I don't like the ad hominem argument that I'm to ignorant to understand, or that I'm making contradictions. Give me concrete examples/arguments, not theoretical anecdotes, why hotkey remapping is a disastrous change.
For the record, I don't love this change either. Even if/when it does come out, I will still use the default hotkeys, as I've been using for the past 10+ years. I just don't see it as them being wrong for trying to acknowledge the newbies in the scene. It's been too long that BW has gone unnoticed, without any Blizz support. Yet, when they come in and try to help, we reject them. I don't like the idea of this game being stuck in a corner forever. It's 2017.
I guess the Korean scene (mostly the pros) will decide whether custom hotkeys are going to be a mainstay or not. Other regions can have input, but custom hotkeys or not the foreign scene will go go back to a small and barely recognised scene after the initial hype wears down. Everyone might as well chill and go with the flow.
On May 12 2017 23:00 KrOjah wrote: I guess the Korean scene (mostly the pros) will decide whether custom hotkeys are going to be a mainstay or not. Other regions can have input, but custom hotkeys or not the foreign scene will go go back to a small and barely recognised scene after the initial hype wears down. Everyone might as well chill and go with the flow.
That could have been avoided if Blizzard had guts to make Remastered overall a more modern game. I am sure it would have surpassed Sc2 fast even if they only made it half way to sc2 with improvements. The BW elitists could have stayed on BW 1.16 or something.
BW pro scene is not going to miraculously become great again if new people do not start playing BW, having fun with it and then watching BW tournaments.
Blizzard is not going to pump money into BW pro scene too just to give it fake popularity.
On May 12 2017 23:00 KrOjah wrote: I guess the Korean scene (mostly the pros) will decide whether custom hotkeys are going to be a mainstay or not. Other regions can have input, but custom hotkeys or not the foreign scene will go go back to a small and barely recognised scene after the initial hype wears down. Everyone might as well chill and go with the flow.
That could have been avoided if Blizzard had guts to make Remastered overall a more modern game. I am sure it would have surpassed Sc2 fast even if they only made it half way to sc2 with improvements. The BW elitists could have stayed on BW 1.16 or something.
BW pro scene is not going to miraculously become great again if new people do not start playing BW, having fun with it and then watching BW tournaments.
Blizzard is not going to pump money into BW pro scene too just to give it fake popularity.
I don't think so. If they would have done a mixture of BW and SC2 they wouldn't get oldschool BW players to play the game, wouldn't get SC2 players to play it and wouldn't get Newbies to test it because there would be no hype. Now with Remastered oldschool BW players are gonna play it. Alot former Players are at least gonna come and see how the game changed. Alot SC2 only players will want to see what the fuzz is about and Newbies will hear of the hype.
I think that Remastered is the right move to make the scene bigger and get players to play again
On May 12 2017 23:00 KrOjah wrote: I guess the Korean scene (mostly the pros) will decide whether custom hotkeys are going to be a mainstay or not. Other regions can have input, but custom hotkeys or not the foreign scene will go go back to a small and barely recognised scene after the initial hype wears down. Everyone might as well chill and go with the flow.
That could have been avoided if Blizzard had guts to make Remastered overall a more modern game. I am sure it would have surpassed Sc2 fast even if they only made it half way to sc2 with improvements. The BW elitists could have stayed on BW 1.16 or something.
BW pro scene is not going to miraculously become great again if new people do not start playing BW, having fun with it and then watching BW tournaments.
Blizzard is not going to pump money into BW pro scene too just to give it fake popularity.
I don't think thats reasonable. People are always going to want the classic gameplay.
It'd be easier to pull SC2 into some of the designs of BW rather than pushing BW into a weird direction with no audience.
On May 12 2017 23:00 KrOjah wrote: I guess the Korean scene (mostly the pros) will decide whether custom hotkeys are going to be a mainstay or not. Other regions can have input, but custom hotkeys or not the foreign scene will go go back to a small and barely recognised scene after the initial hype wears down. Everyone might as well chill and go with the flow.
That could have been avoided if Blizzard had guts to make Remastered overall a more modern game. I am sure it would have surpassed Sc2 fast even if they only made it half way to sc2 with improvements. The BW elitists could have stayed on BW 1.16 or something.
BW pro scene is not going to miraculously become great again if new people do not start playing BW, having fun with it and then watching BW tournaments.
Blizzard is not going to pump money into BW pro scene too just to give it fake popularity.
Every game doesn't need to appeal to the masses like this. Blizzard has a lot of games that fill that role right now and SC2 and HotS etc. aren't going to go away when SC:R comes out. Right now Blizz has an untapped market when it comes to games like BW. I bought Wings of Liberty and never bought into the next two expansions but I absolutely will put money down for more BW. If BW is too hard for you or something that is okay there are plenty of other games out there for you so you don't need to try and force every game to have the mechanics you enjoy.
On May 12 2017 23:00 KrOjah wrote: I guess the Korean scene (mostly the pros) will decide whether custom hotkeys are going to be a mainstay or not. Other regions can have input, but custom hotkeys or not the foreign scene will go go back to a small and barely recognised scene after the initial hype wears down. Everyone might as well chill and go with the flow.
That could have been avoided if Blizzard had guts to make Remastered overall a more modern game. I am sure it would have surpassed Sc2 fast even if they only made it half way to sc2 with improvements. The BW elitists could have stayed on BW 1.16 or something.
BW pro scene is not going to miraculously become great again if new people do not start playing BW, having fun with it and then watching BW tournaments.
Blizzard is not going to pump money into BW pro scene too just to give it fake popularity.
You really should stop following this project altogether. It's clear you have no idea what you're talking about, and what we've seen from Blizzard's interviews so far, you're not getting what you want. So save yourself a lot of trouble, and us from reading your nonsense, and just stop following this project.
On May 11 2017 17:52 Endymion wrote: 1.18 is already hated enough as is in korea for splitting fish and the ASL drama while being inferior to 1.16, if they add rebindable hotkeys it'll just be even more dead... the thing is, korea doesn't need or want "QOL" adjustments for d- players that think it's hard to hit o for overlord.. they also don't need or want input issues or a new dependency on blizzard for servers/updates when sc2 is still plagued with maphack and bnet .20. 1.18 is a charade given that we have a perfect game already in 1.16, a game that has been available for free for the past like 15+ years..
and yes, hotkeys do affect balance, how can you even argue that decreasing the mechanical difficulty of a game so dependent on mechanical proficiency wouldn't affect balance? maybe a new hotkey setup for terran would make them easy as hell to play? for instance, having all of your control groups on 1234qwert, maybe controlling 9 control groups of bio would be retardedly easy to play, making skterran the dominant build? or zerg, which routinely use all 9 control groups and vision hot keys? it's not a QOL 'improvement', it's a fundamental change to the game which is why it has been banned from ladders for those 15 years+ that 1.16 has been free..
You think rebinding hotkeys is all of a sudden going to make a player macro better? Common man it won't effect balance at all. Timings are going to be the exact same, macro is going to be the exact thing.
Now if they increased selection limit or added MBS you have a good argument. But putting overlord to V or putting a muta to T is not going to change anything at all.
I would bet money that changing hotkeys wouldn't effect the game at all in terms of balance or builds.
On May 11 2017 19:40 onlystar wrote: You need verification on endymions post? Just use youre brain any bw player who played competitively can understand this
Thx endymion for spitting the truth
I used to play BW competitively and no you are wrong lol.
Facts: Hotkey rebinding is inevitably coming. I
And to reply to Endymion: the premise that because hotkey remapping been banned for 15+ years therefore it is a fundamental change is incorrect. It was banned because it required manipulation of the game/code. Now they will be implementing it.
Analysis: Hotkey rebinding will not make the game any better or worse. It will not affect balance, because it is an external factor, not within the game. Bads will be bad regardless of this upcoming addition.
In the game of BW, you either know what you're doing, or you don't. It's not a matter of how efficiently you can make press a button to send a command, it's knowing which commands to make. lol @ SK terran style will be dominant if you can remap to 1234qwert. Enough berating - Get some experience with playing games and you will learn that hotkey remapping is strictly for preference, it won't improve in-game skill. Pro's know what they're doing and can execute just fine. Not being good with hotkeys is no excuse for skill barrier.
okay at first your saying ''it reduces the menial task of reaching across keyboard for certain commands. It will help those who are new at the game and those who are poor with typing (albeit marginally).''
than in contradictionairy your saying ''It will not affect balance, because it is an external factor, not within the game. Bads will be bad regardless of this upcoming addition. ''
so.. lol youre saying it will be easier to hotkey stuff for people that are bad at mechanicall play.. there you have it it lowers the skill ceiling for mechanical play keyboard/handspeed. where you get youre logic is beyond me.
as said and ill explain it to you again since you're too ignorant to understand it from endymions post:
if you can hotkey 12345/qwert to unitgroups zerg have an incredible boost in their 200/200 attacks since it is so much easier(and in most cases faster and takes less stamina from the finger/hands)to make a perfect surround/timing with 200/200. same goes for the SKT-terran style it does effect the game DIRECTLY it can not be denied ALL pro-gamers will give you this explanation go ask scan. again mechanical is almost 50% of the skill in BW are you playing sc2 or something where u get this stuff from? hotkey remapping will effect how the races perform across the board.
Again, it's not a contradiction. It's a moot point to say that if you are able to choose your hotkeys subject to the preference of each person, it will make desired actions easier. That is of course the case, by definition. Hotkey remapping won't increase skill ceilings. However, you don't want to conflate the obvious point with the idea that the game will break if you implement this.
I believe that we can at least agree that D ranks won't become C just because they can do some wrong action faster. At the middle ranks, there will still be a mix of player skills. At the high ranks, it's currently indeterminable, but it will probably make some changes. Some actions may be faster and easier, but it's hard to say how it will affect the game as a whole. High skilled players are very good at making adjustments, even at the stake of the meta.
If zerg can remap 12345qwert for 200/200, so can terran. Every race and every person can benefit from personalizing hotkeys.
I don't like the ad hominem argument that I'm to ignorant to understand, or that I'm making contradictions. Give me concrete examples/arguments, not theoretical anecdotes, why hotkey remapping is a disastrous change.
For the record, I don't love this change either. Even if/when it does come out, I will still use the default hotkeys, as I've been using for the past 10+ years. I just don't see it as them being wrong for trying to acknowledge the newbies in the scene. It's been too long that BW has gone unnoticed, without any Blizz support. Yet, when they come in and try to help, we reject them. I don't like the idea of this game being stuck in a corner forever. It's 2017.
youre in a monolog with your self ignoring arguments made twisting stuff like '''breaks the game''
in the end you cant really ''prove'' these kind of changes up front, that for the expert level/pro level things would tip out of balance it is expected at least.. anyway its what we fear at expert level/pro level for novice level fish F/E/D nobody cares really..
we will have to wait and see if and how hotkey remapping would be received/tested by pro-gamers i am pretty confident how this will go down i can give you that right away we will not see hotkey remapping aloud in pro matches in korea mark my words
arguing against hotkey rebinding in 2017 is the most mind numbingly stupid thing i can imagine in the context of video games. it's really awe inspiring how self important some people can become.
On May 11 2017 17:52 Endymion wrote: 1.18 is already hated enough as is in korea for splitting fish and the ASL drama while being inferior to 1.16, if they add rebindable hotkeys it'll just be even more dead... the thing is, korea doesn't need or want "QOL" adjustments for d- players that think it's hard to hit o for overlord.. they also don't need or want input issues or a new dependency on blizzard for servers/updates when sc2 is still plagued with maphack and bnet .20. 1.18 is a charade given that we have a perfect game already in 1.16, a game that has been available for free for the past like 15+ years..
and yes, hotkeys do affect balance, how can you even argue that decreasing the mechanical difficulty of a game so dependent on mechanical proficiency wouldn't affect balance? maybe a new hotkey setup for terran would make them easy as hell to play? for instance, having all of your control groups on 1234qwert, maybe controlling 9 control groups of bio would be retardedly easy to play, making skterran the dominant build? or zerg, which routinely use all 9 control groups and vision hot keys? it's not a QOL 'improvement', it's a fundamental change to the game which is why it has been banned from ladders for those 15 years+ that 1.16 has been free..
You think rebinding hotkeys is all of a sudden going to make a player macro better? Common man it won't effect balance at all. Timings are going to be the exact same, macro is going to be the exact thing.
Now if they increased selection limit or added MBS you have a good argument. But putting overlord to V or putting a muta to T is not going to change anything at all.
I would bet money that changing hotkeys wouldn't effect the game at all in terms of balance or builds.
On May 11 2017 19:40 onlystar wrote: You need verification on endymions post? Just use youre brain any bw player who played competitively can understand this
Thx endymion for spitting the truth
I used to play BW competitively and no you are wrong lol.
Facts: Hotkey rebinding is inevitably coming. I
And to reply to Endymion: the premise that because hotkey remapping been banned for 15+ years therefore it is a fundamental change is incorrect. It was banned because it required manipulation of the game/code. Now they will be implementing it.
Analysis: Hotkey rebinding will not make the game any better or worse. It will not affect balance, because it is an external factor, not within the game. Bads will be bad regardless of this upcoming addition.
In the game of BW, you either know what you're doing, or you don't. It's not a matter of how efficiently you can make press a button to send a command, it's knowing which commands to make. lol @ SK terran style will be dominant if you can remap to 1234qwert. Enough berating - Get some experience with playing games and you will learn that hotkey remapping is strictly for preference, it won't improve in-game skill. Pro's know what they're doing and can execute just fine. Not being good with hotkeys is no excuse for skill barrier.
okay at first your saying ''it reduces the menial task of reaching across keyboard for certain commands. It will help those who are new at the game and those who are poor with typing (albeit marginally).''
than in contradictionairy your saying ''It will not affect balance, because it is an external factor, not within the game. Bads will be bad regardless of this upcoming addition. ''
so.. lol youre saying it will be easier to hotkey stuff for people that are bad at mechanicall play.. there you have it it lowers the skill ceiling for mechanical play keyboard/handspeed. where you get youre logic is beyond me.
as said and ill explain it to you again since you're too ignorant to understand it from endymions post:
if you can hotkey 12345/qwert to unitgroups zerg have an incredible boost in their 200/200 attacks since it is so much easier(and in most cases faster and takes less stamina from the finger/hands)to make a perfect surround/timing with 200/200. same goes for the SKT-terran style it does effect the game DIRECTLY it can not be denied ALL pro-gamers will give you this explanation go ask scan. again mechanical is almost 50% of the skill in BW are you playing sc2 or something where u get this stuff from? hotkey remapping will effect how the races perform across the board.
Again, it's not a contradiction. It's a moot point to say that if you are able to choose your hotkeys subject to the preference of each person, it will make desired actions easier. That is of course the case, by definition. Hotkey remapping won't increase skill ceilings. However, you don't want to conflate the obvious point with the idea that the game will break if you implement this.
I believe that we can at least agree that D ranks won't become C just because they can do some wrong action faster. At the middle ranks, there will still be a mix of player skills. At the high ranks, it's currently indeterminable, but it will probably make some changes. Some actions may be faster and easier, but it's hard to say how it will affect the game as a whole. High skilled players are very good at making adjustments, even at the stake of the meta.
If zerg can remap 12345qwert for 200/200, so can terran. Every race and every person can benefit from personalizing hotkeys.
I don't like the ad hominem argument that I'm to ignorant to understand, or that I'm making contradictions. Give me concrete examples/arguments, not theoretical anecdotes, why hotkey remapping is a disastrous change.
For the record, I don't love this change either. Even if/when it does come out, I will still use the default hotkeys, as I've been using for the past 10+ years. I just don't see it as them being wrong for trying to acknowledge the newbies in the scene. It's been too long that BW has gone unnoticed, without any Blizz support. Yet, when they come in and try to help, we reject them. I don't like the idea of this game being stuck in a corner forever. It's 2017.
youre in a monolog with your self ignoring arguments made twisting stuff like '''breaks the game''
in the end you cant really ''prove'' these kind of changes up front, that for the expert level/pro level things would tip out of balance it is expected at least.. anyway its what we fear at expert level/pro level for novice level fish F/E/D nobody cares really..
we will have to wait and see if and how hotkey remapping would be received/tested by pro-gamers i am pretty confident how this will go down i can give you that right away we will not see hotkey remapping aloud in pro matches in korea mark my words
-.-
The only thing that you established is that you think you're right and I'm wrong. That doesn't provide any insight as to why you think that way. You failed to give reasons to reject the notion that hotkey remapping is a net positive for the game. I was hoping for some good ideas.
Maybe they will disallow remapping hotkeys in pro matches. Who knows. It doesn't make it a bad thing to implement for 99.9% of the non-pros.
What's going to happen is: SC:R comes out with remapping hotkeys option, pros complain (which you think you will be correct here), but the important step is: they will learn to adapt.
you're doing it again... blindly ignoring valid points i made in this discussion, we agree to disagree while you are trying to minimize my contribution to the subject by saying i established nothing and gave no insight... you are one amazing kind my friend Trumpish style of replying to one's discussion partner.
i am contributing to why and what the effect could be at the highest level of play in this topic. explained to some posters why hotkey remapping has such a huge impact on the game how mechanics in BW are far more important than almost all other e-sports hence the connection with hotkey remapping
On May 13 2017 04:31 onlystar wrote: you're doing it again... blindly ignoring valid points i made in this discussion, we agree to disagree while you are trying to minimize my contribution to the subject by saying i established nothing and gave no insight... you are one amazing kind my friend Trumpish style of replying to one's discussion partner.
i am contributing to why and what the effect could be at the highest level of play in this topic. explained to some posters why hotkey remapping has such a huge impact on the game how mechanics in BW are far more important than almost all other e-sports hence the connection with hotkey remapping
You need to take an entry level debate or logics course. The only thing you've said to me in your last four responses have been: I'm contradicting myself, I'm an mediocre foreigner, I'm ignorant, Trumpish, and blindly ignoring valid points you made.
You were getting close with the 1234qwer argument. If you had presented more points relevant to the discussion, like maybe saying: "hey, terran will become harder to play against as zerg because their hotkeys can now go from "i" (irradiate) to "g", they can kill defiler 2x faster which might be op", then we can go back and forth and maybe you can show me how wrong I maybe am.
Calling me names and saying I'm "ignoring valid points" you made without presenting any to me, is not manner. I enjoy crushing people like you with words.
to each his own, i enjoyed enlightening a couple of posters with some insights besides the OBVIOUS point of that is hotkey remapping = closer hotkeys lols. while you where ''crushing people with words'' on the interwebs
On May 13 2017 01:22 Kevin_Sorbo wrote: Did Blizzard talk about enhancing the observer UI in the remastered version?
They added a few observer UI features to 1.8, but they're being very cautious.
Will there be esports support for SC:R in the future? E.g. observer tools like gameheart, zoom out.
We are adding a few features to improve the experience for viewers at home and Observer slots in game lobbies.
Feedback from the shoutcasters was to temper our enthusiasm for data though. They believe the excitement of Brood War is often in the discovery of what is about to happen. We’ll introduce a few new key features and gauge feedback. As usual, we’ll err on the side of caution with change.
On May 13 2017 05:07 onlystar wrote: to each his own, i enjoyed enlightening a couple of posters with some insights besides the OBVIOUS point of that is hotkey remapping = closer hotkeys lols. while you where ''crushing people with words'' on the interwebs
you're so "enlightening" with your "insights" such a stylish fedora too
Will there be esports support for SC:R in the future? E.g. observer tools like gameheart, zoom out.
We are adding a few features to improve the experience for viewers at home and Observer slots in game lobbies.
Feedback from the shoutcasters was to temper our enthusiasm for data though. They believe the excitement of Brood War is often in the discovery of what is about to happen. We’ll introduce a few new key features and gauge feedback. As usual, we’ll err on the side of caution with change.
That is bullshit. They can just allow these other features to be turned on or off. So people that are excited by nothing knowing anything about what is about to happen can keep them off.
On May 13 2017 01:22 Kevin_Sorbo wrote: Did Blizzard talk about enhancing the observer UI in the remastered version?
They added a few observer UI features to 1.8, but they're being very cautious.
Will there be esports support for SC:R in the future? E.g. observer tools like gameheart, zoom out.
We are adding a few features to improve the experience for viewers at home and Observer slots in game lobbies.
Feedback from the shoutcasters was to temper our enthusiasm for data though. They believe the excitement of Brood War is often in the discovery of what is about to happen. We’ll introduce a few new key features and gauge feedback. As usual, we’ll err on the side of caution with change.
That is bullshit. They can just allow these other features to be turned on or off. So people that are excited by nothing knowing anything about what is about to happen can keep them off.
We already got complaints about some of the 1.8 observer UI features, especially the player view boxes in the minimap. Keeping them toggle-able would be a good compromise. The tools are good, but mostly in the hands of a good observer.
edit: also, looks like they're gonna release a preview article about hotkeys next week, according to the Remastered edition official site. Hold on to your butts.
God I hope they never add a production tab. No worse mistake in SC2 casting than everyone relying on the production tab. It removes so much excitement from the storyline of a game.
sure it may remove excitement for the casual fans, but as a player who likes to study the pros (and when replays aren't always available), having that production tab really clues you in to builds when you can't control the camera yourself and look at what the players are specifically doing to gain an advantage. Less production tab reliance should've been an industry standard among casters, but it's one of the best tools they could have added into the replay/obs system for learning purposes.
There's no way to not talk about it and have it up. It ruins so much of the viewing experience of SC2. People can still, and still do, study builds of pros without it.
On May 13 2017 08:05 SchAmToo wrote: There's no way to not talk about it and have it up. It ruins so much of the viewing experience of SC2. People can still, and still do, study builds of pros without it.
To me, I think it ruins the possibility of being surprised while creating the weight of decisions in StarCraft. It teaches why someone is so good as opposed to making it so apparent via the production tab.
Terran moves out, Zerg queues up a bunch of eggs. With production tab you know it's either drones (Well they're dead now) or a bunch of Zergling/Ultras (They could defend it), without it it's now a big possibility! It builds tension and allows casters to talk over both possibilities, it creates a sense for the spectator to realize the importance of droning at good times.
If a Protoss techs to DTs and Terran just got their machine shop and starts whirring. Is it siege mode? Is it mines? Mines they can defend (possibly) because they cut Acad out early. Again, the viewer now sees the possibility of both arguments immediately to go for x or y in their builds. It allow the caster to say a lot about both before the event comes to fruition. Then its the golden moment of "THEY GOT MINES!" It puts you in the protoss's point of view too. They don't know 100% what the build was either and now they get surprised because they also didn't have that information.
Honestly I love watching progames without supply\production tabs,they are way more interesting than the SC2 ones with those QoL improvements.However I understand people that want these features in the game. It all comes to personal taste imho
On May 13 2017 08:54 SchAmToo wrote: To me, I think it ruins the possibility of being surprised while creating the weight of decisions in StarCraft. It teaches why someone is so good as opposed to making it so apparent via the production tab.
Terran moves out, Zerg queues up a bunch of eggs. With production tab you know it's either drones (Well they're dead now) or a bunch of Zergling/Ultras (They could defend it), without it it's now a big possibility! It builds tension and allows casters to talk over both possibilities, it creates a sense for the spectator to realize the importance of droning at good times.
If a Protoss techs to DTs and Terran just got their machine shop and starts whirring. Is it siege mode? Is it mines? Mines they can defend (possibly) because they cut Acad out early. Again, the viewer now sees the possibility of both arguments immediately to go for x or y in their builds. It allow the caster to say a lot about both before the event comes to fruition. Then its the golden moment of "THEY GOT MINES!" It puts you in the protoss's point of view too. They don't know 100% what the build was either and now they get surprised because they also didn't have that information.
If you look at Dota 2, League of Legends, Magic: the Gathering, Counter Strike, Gears of War, Halo, all of these games have all of the information you could ever know openly available to the casters as well as the viewers during the matches and this is not an issue for any of them. Heck, even in poker the audience knows 100% of the information on the table afaik.
For StarCraft 2 I've always felt that it's just "one of those things" that some people (most of whom came from Brood War or Age of Empires, in my experience) don't like and they attribute their overall feelings about watching the game in larger part to the Production Tab than most do. But, an extremely large portion of the audience wants it there because it makes it more enjoyable for them, and having information like this available to the viewers of other competitive games not being an issue and instead making it better for those viewers leads me to believe that overall it's a good thing for StarCraft 2. It's not bad, it's just different than Brood War and other RTS games through the 00s.
If you don't want it in Brood War, fine. It's understandable because it changes the way that people have been watching matches of the game since the end of the 90s, it's part of the game's identity, and the older, hardcore BW community wants to keep it that way, but I see no other reasons that it "cannot be changed no matter what" or at least have the option there for the players, viewers and organizations that happen to want it. With the Remaster targeting the newer generations of RTS players who barely know anything about the game, the option to use a Production Tab, I believe, would actually be phenomenal and help more people eventually become hardcore fans.
As far as showing where the player cameras are, it adds to the "wow factor" of watching highly skilled professional players, though I don't think that it's nearly as interesting, readable, or as important as the Production Tab, so other than the little bit of clutter it adds to the mini map not being great I'm pretty neutral. I'd personally like the option there just so you could click a button and go "damn, look at how good these players are", but that's about all I think anyone would get out of it.
There's no legitimate reason to want "surprise" other than that it's always been that way. No legitimate sport tries to "surprise" viewers with what happens next. I like that someone else mentioned poker... the hole card camera in poker, removing the element of surprise, revolutionized TV coverage and led to a huge boom in interest and viewership. Like many other things, some people here can't see past the way it's always been...
The problem with supply tab in SC1 is that it will make no sense. Supply means a lot less than technology and strategy in BW whereas in SC2 supply pretty much indicates whos winning across all matchups. In BW everything is OP and one unit can have a ridiculous impact on the game
On May 13 2017 13:01 bduddy wrote: There's no legitimate reason to want "surprise" other than that it's always been that way. No legitimate sport tries to "surprise" viewers with what happens next. I like that someone else mentioned poker... the hole card camera in poker, removing the element of surprise, revolutionized TV coverage and led to a huge boom in interest and viewership. Like many other things, some people here can't see past the way it's always been...
I just gave you tons of legitimate reasons in my post, but i guess you ignored them?
On May 13 2017 08:54 SchAmToo wrote: To me, I think it ruins the possibility of being surprised while creating the weight of decisions in StarCraft. It teaches why someone is so good as opposed to making it so apparent via the production tab.
Terran moves out, Zerg queues up a bunch of eggs. With production tab you know it's either drones (Well they're dead now) or a bunch of Zergling/Ultras (They could defend it), without it it's now a big possibility! It builds tension and allows casters to talk over both possibilities, it creates a sense for the spectator to realize the importance of droning at good times.
If a Protoss techs to DTs and Terran just got their machine shop and starts whirring. Is it siege mode? Is it mines? Mines they can defend (possibly) because they cut Acad out early. Again, the viewer now sees the possibility of both arguments immediately to go for x or y in their builds. It allow the caster to say a lot about both before the event comes to fruition. Then its the golden moment of "THEY GOT MINES!" It puts you in the protoss's point of view too. They don't know 100% what the build was either and now they get surprised because they also didn't have that information.
Personally I find that it's the other way around. I find that the production tab in sc2 gives more depth and allows the viewers to understand more of the what is going on in the game. Some starts teching to banshees or something, and now you look at how the terran is trying to stop the zerg from scouting.
In your example with the drones, the commentary would be like "ohh, he spent all his larva on drones JUST before seeing the push! This will be difficult!", or "he INSTANTLY builds a bunch lings and ultras to answer attack".
I don't know... I guess it's a matter of preference in the end. I myself like to get as close as I can to understand what is going on in the head of the players, and I feel the production tab really helps with that. Others maybe just want to sit back and have the game flow over them, and then maybe the production tab can detract from that experience to some extent.
On May 13 2017 13:01 bduddy wrote: There's no legitimate reason to want "surprise" other than that it's always been that way. No legitimate sport tries to "surprise" viewers with what happens next. I like that someone else mentioned poker... the hole card camera in poker, removing the element of surprise, revolutionized TV coverage and led to a huge boom in interest and viewership. Like many other things, some people here can't see past the way it's always been...
If theres no legitimate reason to prefer surprise, the hidden implication in that is that surprise can not and does not emotionally impact the experience of an event. Which is ridiculous.
On May 13 2017 07:43 SchAmToo wrote: God I hope they never add a production tab. No worse mistake in SC2 casting than everyone relying on the production tab. It removes so much excitement from the storyline of a game.
Dont worry, the Brood War community is gonna add that
On May 13 2017 13:01 bduddy wrote: No legitimate sport tries to "surprise" viewers with what happens next.
Football broadcasts don't show the offensive and defensive plays that have been called for each team. NBA broadcasts don't have a mic on the coach so that viewers know the play coming out of a 4th quarter timeout.
On May 13 2017 13:01 bduddy wrote: No legitimate sport tries to "surprise" viewers with what happens next.
Football broadcasts don't show the offensive and defensive plays that have been called for each team. NBA broadcasts don't have a mic on the coach so that viewers know the play coming out of a 4th quarter timeout.
I feel like there's more to those decisions to limit information in sports broadcasts than just building surprise. They at least tend to show a lot more information in replays, in which case I think it's acceptable to at least have observer tools available in BW: Remastered replays. A good observer doesn't need to rely on observer tools anyways, and since there are so few dedicated observers compared to players and viewers, popular opinion could still sway them to limit use of any observer tools.
On May 13 2017 13:01 bduddy wrote: No legitimate sport tries to "surprise" viewers with what happens next.
Football broadcasts don't show the offensive and defensive plays that have been called for each team. NBA broadcasts don't have a mic on the coach so that viewers know the play coming out of a 4th quarter timeout.
In some cases the do actually stuff a boom mic over the teams strat talk in breaks. I remember they did it in handboll. The reason they don't do it in NBA (not that I watch it) is probably a matter of the team not wanting the strats go live on TV so the other team can hear it.
On May 13 2017 13:01 bduddy wrote: I like that someone else mentioned poker... the hole card camera in poker, removing the element of surprise, revolutionized TV coverage and led to a huge boom in interest and viewership. Like many other things, some people here can't see past the way it's always been...
Actually, poker is a great example of surprise making the sport more interesting for the viewers. While the hole cards are shown to the audience, the community cards are not. Go watch any high tension poker show and imagine how much less exciting it would be if you would know in advance what the flop, turn and river cards were going to be.
Surprises drive excitement, and excitement is key for enjoyment.
On May 13 2017 13:01 bduddy wrote: I like that someone else mentioned poker... the hole card camera in poker, removing the element of surprise, revolutionized TV coverage and led to a huge boom in interest and viewership. Like many other things, some people here can't see past the way it's always been...
Actually, poker is a great example of surprise making the sport more interesting for the viewers. While the hole cards are shown to the audience, the community cards are not. Go watch any high tension poker show and imagine how much less exciting it would be if you would know in advance what the flop, turn and river cards were going to be.
Surprises drive excitement, and excitement is key for enjoyment.
I want to understand how the players think. Why they do what they do. I think that is the role of the commnetators, explaining what is going on in the players head. For that you need to know what cards they have on their hand, I do not need to know what cards are on the board.
I think the production tab shouldn't be available to viewers at all times, but the observer should have the option to show it at certain times just for a moment, to evaluate the state of the game. This has been actually used recently in korean tournaments (for example showing worker counts after harassment, then turning it off)
On May 13 2017 09:35 raff100 wrote: Honestly I love watching progames without supply\production tabs,they are way more interesting than the SC2 ones with those QoL improvements.However I understand people that want these features in the game. It all comes to personal taste imho
I add style of cast to that as well. I really liked the very old casts of games, speaking about the German Giga/WCG Qualifier/BWCL casts done by Grummel and to a lesser extent some of the earliest Day/Tasteless casts. I don't mean their way of doing jokes, but their general thought process. It really was giving an insight of how they approach the game, e.g. how they analyse the scouting patterns, the reactions and then went on trying to get into the player's heads. This way you could actually learn things as lower ranked player, and I really don't mean just getting to know the names of strategies, more like get a glimpse of decision making at higher levels. Sidenote: in this era those casters rarely wrongfully predicted the upcoming strat switches.
I don't mean to offend the current foreign casters, but this is something rarely done in detail anymore. Aside from eOn's nation wars casts and to a lesser extent catspaw's casts nothing comes to mind that is similar to the older style.
It's not bad if a caster either can't or doesn't want to analyse the ongoing game, nor could it be done if really big newbs should be entertained as well, as the audience needs to have a basic level of experience before being able to fully enjoy a more analytical approach.
I agree with the notion that the game is interesting for spectators when they can try to understand what is the thought process of the players. Poker became big on tv because of the 'hole cam'. In the same way, giving spectators access to supply, what units are in production, upgrades, and all the every info that is in the game, makes the game more interesting.
Showing the cards that are going to come to the spectator is not interesting, because no player knows anything about that either. Therefore, it is not relevant to their thought process. Therefore, it holds no interest to the spectator either.
On May 12 2017 23:06 -Archangel- wrote: The BW elitists could have stayed on BW 1.16 or something.
You on the other hand can go back to WoL if you dont like it. What I sincerely advice you. Go ruin the games for someone else. Not for us.
"BW elitists" (Koreans and foreigners) are the ones that kept the game alive, without them there would be no current community,, events or probably a remastered. Blizzard should definitely consider the old community in its decisions since they are the backbone, and probably after the remastered hype and others move on to other games, they will still be playing the game. I understand sometimes these "elitists" go overboard in their demands and expectations, but it's cuz they really love the game. They are super hardcore. And I say "consider" because Blizzard should definitely not bow over to all their suggestions, some of them are bad/controversial.
On May 13 2017 23:26 Aimhreidh wrote: I agree with the notion that the game is interesting for spectators when they can try to understand what is the thought process of the players. Poker became big on tv because of the 'hole cam'. In the same way, giving spectators access to supply, what units are in production, upgrades, and all the every info that is in the game, makes the game more interesting.
Showing the cards that are going to come to the spectator is not interesting, because no player knows anything about that either. Therefore, it is not relevant to their thought process. Therefore, it holds no interest to the spectator either.
Honestly, for me that was the one reason I hated watching SC2. It was never exciting anymore for me.
It makes it too obvious when someone is miles ahead and removes any tension from the game.
On May 13 2017 23:26 Aimhreidh wrote: I agree with the notion that the game is interesting for spectators when they can try to understand what is the thought process of the players. Poker became big on tv because of the 'hole cam'. In the same way, giving spectators access to supply, what units are in production, upgrades, and all the every info that is in the game, makes the game more interesting.
Showing the cards that are going to come to the spectator is not interesting, because no player knows anything about that either. Therefore, it is not relevant to their thought process. Therefore, it holds no interest to the spectator either.
Honestly, for me that was the one reason I hated watching SC2. It was never exciting anymore for me.
It makes it too obvious when someone is miles ahead and removes any tension from the game.
I think it just made it easier for less experienced players to know who has which advantage. You can still tell very comfortably who has which advantage in BW if you pay attention (even if the observer doesn't show certain things. Timings and the mini map are great to gather additional information). But what's really exciting then is to see how the players play these advantages, or on the other hand try to win despite the disadvantage. I think it's easier to appreciate that (and possibly learn from it) as a worse player if you can see the details. If you actually realize he was at a disadvantage and how he played it. Something they might not have noticed as well with less information (although the caster(s) may very well point it out, as they should be experienced enough to know).
Does anyone know if Blizzard plans to go full mode with the hotkey customization i.e making everything customizable or do they plan on keeping f-keys, group keys etc fixed?
On May 15 2017 06:23 ICanFlyLow wrote: Does anyone know if Blizzard plans to go full mode with the hotkey customization i.e making everything customizable or do they plan on keeping f-keys, group keys etc fixed?
I don't think they've said anything that detailed. We are getting a preview article on starcraft.com next Friday about hotkeys https://starcraft.com/en-us/ . Maybe we'll get more info then.
On May 15 2017 07:24 GGzerG wrote: I hope this brings back eSports into BW Foreign scene =)
Eh, I can't see that happening, at least not without heavy Blizzard subsidies. There's so much competition with every game being a big esport now. The community is going to have to rely on grassroot events because an organizer like Dreamhack probably isnt going to pick it up because there are so many other games to choose from.
On May 15 2017 07:24 GGzerG wrote: I hope this brings back eSports into BW Foreign scene =)
Eh, I can't see that happening, at least not without heavy Blizzard subsidies. There's so much competition with every game being a big esport now. The community is going to have to rely on grassroot events because an organizer like Dreamhack probably isnt going to pick it up because there are so many other games to choose from.
On May 15 2017 07:24 GGzerG wrote: I hope this brings back eSports into BW Foreign scene =)
Eh, I can't see that happening, at least not without heavy Blizzard subsidies. There's so much competition with every game being a big esport now. The community is going to have to rely on grassroot events because an organizer like Dreamhack probably isnt going to pick it up because there are so many other games to choose from.
Don't they kind of own MLG now, though? If you can put money into SC 2, a ship on the bottom of the ocean for years, you can surely allocate money to Remastered, even if as a hail mary.
On May 15 2017 07:24 GGzerG wrote: I hope this brings back eSports into BW Foreign scene =)
Eh, I can't see that happening, at least not without heavy Blizzard subsidies. There's so much competition with every game being a big esport now. The community is going to have to rely on grassroot events because an organizer like Dreamhack probably isnt going to pick it up because there are so many other games to choose from.
Don't they kind of own MLG now, though? If you can put money into SC 2, a ship on the bottom of the ocean for years, you can surely allocate money to Remastered, even if as a hail mary.
Activision Blizzard does, not Blizzard proper. The only thing I think MLG does for Blizzard is host the World of Warcraft Blizzcon NA qualifiers, and more recently they're doing the Overwatch League.
More Importantly, MLG doesn't host those big circuit events anymore.
On May 15 2017 07:24 GGzerG wrote: I hope this brings back eSports into BW Foreign scene =)
Eh, I can't see that happening, at least not without heavy Blizzard subsidies. There's so much competition with every game being a big esport now. The community is going to have to rely on grassroot events because an organizer like Dreamhack probably isnt going to pick it up because there are so many other games to choose from.
Don't they kind of own MLG now, though? If you can put money into SC 2, a ship on the bottom of the ocean for years, you can surely allocate money to Remastered, even if as a hail mary.
Activision Blizzard does, not Blizzard proper. The only thing I think MLG does for Blizzard is host the World of Warcraft Blizzcon NA qualifiers, and more recently they're doing the Overwatch League.
More Importantly, MLG doesn't host those big circuit events anymore.
They're using the MLG brand and assets to produce the Overwatch league, but they're still open to using those resources for their other games. Those are probably gonna be mostly backend support, but my fingers are still crossed for a LAN appearance.
It would also be nice if OGN could get in on the Remaster hype and start hosting tournaments again, perhaps even doing them regularly.
On May 15 2017 07:24 GGzerG wrote: I hope this brings back eSports into BW Foreign scene =)
Eh, I can't see that happening, at least not without heavy Blizzard subsidies. There's so much competition with every game being a big esport now. The community is going to have to rely on grassroot events because an organizer like Dreamhack probably isnt going to pick it up because there are so many other games to choose from.
Don't they kind of own MLG now, though? If you can put money into SC 2, a ship on the bottom of the ocean for years, you can surely allocate money to Remastered, even if as a hail mary.
Activision Blizzard does, not Blizzard proper. The only thing I think MLG does for Blizzard is host the World of Warcraft Blizzcon NA qualifiers, and more recently they're doing the Overwatch League.
More Importantly, MLG doesn't host those big circuit events anymore.
They're using the MLG brand and assets to produce the Overwatch league, but they're still open to using those resources for their other games. Those are probably gonna be mostly backend support, but my fingers are still crossed for a LAN appearance.
It would also be nice if OGN could get in on the Remaster hype and start hosting tournaments again, perhaps even doing them regularly.
I mean, certainly OGN is in the running for more tournaments. It'd be cool if you think about if we got THREE Brood War leagues, although I'm uncertain how realistic that is because how many pros dropped out of SSL Classic. Ideally I'd want the hungry pros to be in all 3.
I digress, we're talking about the foreign scene, that's what I'm expressing doubt for.
On May 15 2017 10:51 Neneu wrote: So who thinks it will actually be released this summer? I must say that personally I have my doubts :/
I think it will come out on schedule. With a 300MB day 2 patch or something. They pushed 1.18 out "on schedule" too and thats been a bit of a mess really.
Specific Changes & Improvements Switching between Progressive-IME and standard input will no longer delete standard characters Join's available game list refresh rate slowed from 1 second to 7 Tuned responsiveness when control group commands follow build commands Tuned input handling with Vsync or FPS cap on Fullscreen will now use the monitor's highest refresh rate
Bug Fixes Attack or rally commands sent rapidly to the minimap will no longer switch the camera position Lobby IDs no longer change on refresh - addressing one of the causes of stats only updating properly for the game host Pausing Alt+F4 for 1 second - to address stats not updating when the host uses that method to gg Replays with pauses should no longer cause crashes Invalid maps should no longer cause crashes Space bar functions again have parity with 1.16 - will not affect gameplay, but advances screens in menus
Good fixes for sure but I can't see myself playing much more 1.18 until they fix this lag issue.I didn't touch the game for seven years, came back with 1.18 and the lag is on par with what we put up with back in 98/99.I think this is a big part of why Bnet population and game lobbies are starting to fall again.
On May 17 2017 17:13 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: Good fixes for sure but I can't see myself playing much more 1.18 until they fix this lag issue.I didn't touch the game for seven years, came back with 1.18 and the lag is on par with what we put up with back in 98/99.I think this is a big part of why Bnet population and game lobbies are starting to fall again.
what do you mean? The latency in game? Because it feels just fine to me.
On May 17 2017 17:13 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: Good fixes for sure but I can't see myself playing much more 1.18 until they fix this lag issue.I didn't touch the game for seven years, came back with 1.18 and the lag is on par with what we put up with back in 98/99.I think this is a big part of why Bnet population and game lobbies are starting to fall again.
what do you mean? The latency in game? Because it feels just fine to me.
Yeah I only feel lag if there are a lot of people in game, other than that, 1v1 latency is great
Same here, I've been playing exclusively team games 2:2 and 3:3 and pretty much every single game lag, forced to play on extra high latency which is unplayable.
Does anyone know if they are gonna release a exact date soon? Its basically already summer in a week or so and theres no release date, im gonna have a very busy summer i wanna make some time in advance to play this game when it relases else im gonna have to wait a few months
My guess would be late summer... like Aug/Sept ish. Blizz is on top of the ball when it comes to 1.18, as they are consistently making patches, but updating graphics with that, won't be soon.
On May 22 2017 21:04 ICanFlyLow wrote: [...] Its basically already summer in a week or so [...]
lol? Summer starts on june 21st which is 30 days. I don't think they're talking about june 1st as meteorological start of summer. Even if they do, they still have three more weeks as buffering xD
Just one question, will I be able to use the old files from the original starcraft like the 'Antioch chronicles for starcraft remastered since its on the same engine. Or will they be incompatible and have to be remade?
EPT
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/lichter/SCR/SC_Remastered.jpg)
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![[image loading]](https://i.gyazo.com/38688da3ec7dcf7e0e2cff62e2b1c57b.png)
![[image loading]](https://i.gyazo.com/8d292d06af8ba28014eab15fce449ab8.jpg)
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/2iN4VNS.jpg)
?
![[image loading]](https://www.unseen64.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/sc-game1.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/D9Buf6F.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Qq2Ziec.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/zIUmA6b.png)
![[image loading]](https://static.starcraft.com/images/content/races/terran/terran-bust-e0247dcce167c6840381dbf4e98387fd87634a28df88063be0ad67f9d3a33b388872c52dcba4a9ac66a596d87db77be7babcacce56d63e8ed2a72a43e2369249.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/sc1Hhg9.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/24hAoeI.gif)
![[image loading]](https://imgur.com/a/LXHOB)
