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This is NOT a BW vs SC2 topic thread. Be cautious of what you post. Starting Page 26, warnings/bans will be handed out if this note is ignored. |
On August 08 2016 04:58 maybenexttime wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2016 04:10 ProMeTheus112 wrote:
imo MBS is not dumbing down, its just quality of life, like automine, it doesn't matter to me, it's one of those things that make people say RTS is about being the fastest to click rather than strategy, they're wrong but.. to prove them wrong let them build enough units without clicking twice as many times and kill them with strategy... if it doesn't involve decision making I don't care about these limitations. It's not like the pathing or other things. It does involve decision making. To put it in simple terms: player's attention is a resource in BW - much more so than in SC2. Having more bases results in having to allocate your attention to more places due to the lack of auto-mining and MBS. It works as an inherent come-back facilitating mechanism. It makes people who have more bases to manage more prone to drops or their army getting ambushed. In SC2 it is much easier to macro remotely, while paying most of one's attention to one's army.
I agree with what you said but I think it's minor and there would still be tons to do, in fact I think giving some extra freedom to players in bw in general would be beneficial to anyone even a pro or really fast player cause you can never really do or see everything. It can't really be proven with words though but testing..
SC2 has a lot more differences that makes it easier to pay attention to your army, some of them are that your army is often in just one spot and engagements happen over a shorter time, smaller area, less areas at a time. (Yet the game still revolves highly around attention-traps in part due to the high volatility you need to constantly be careful about.)
So that adding automine / MBS to BW would not nearly place it to the level of SC2 in terms of multitasking and decision making issues. A good player would just be spending more time doing more precise stuff with their units, for example. While a less experienced / slower player would struggle less to make their macro relevant to their tactics & strategy. That's my opinion anyway!
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They are planning on releasing a 1.17 patch, how are they going to cash in on this? Maybe I'm missing something. Or maybe this indicates that they're just interested in supporting one of their legacy games as it is one the games that put blizzard on the map. People have been supporting this game for almost 2 decades (the amount of games with a similar lifespan while still being competitive and having tournaments for it can be counted on 1 hand). As a company this is something you can put some effort in without planning on making a "lot of cash".
So it doesn't make any sense at all for me to try to expand towards casual players. What even is your definition of a casual player? Have you ever talked to an average gamer? Even they think starcraft 2 (!) is way too hard for them and too stressful. Is this your target audience? Or maybe, it makes more sense to keep the gameplay exactly the same and only consider cosmetic changes, and improvements to the platform such as bnet. And by doing this, they could if all goes to plan, profit a lot if the entire korean scene switches over.
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If people wanted SC1 campaigns with SC2 graphics and QoL stuff there probably is already a remake in SC2. If they wanted to cash in with remade campaign in SC2 style it would be easier to remake it in SC2 than remake a game for it and then do it.
If they want BW units with SC2 graphics etc. there's already handful of mods for that in SC2.
There's very little reason to remake the game in very different form, there's more than just a foundation in old tilesets, units, stats.
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Might as well have both available. One is 100% BW mechanics, including 4:3 aspect ratio. The other is SC2 shortcuts. Ladder for both.
Let custom have complete and utter customization so you can only choose the shortcuts you want for you are your buddy to play.
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If this is true they sould (Please Blizzard listen to me):
1)Make the game for free (This is why LoL is so popular): That will put starcraft where it should be, in the top games played.
2)Pay for skins and animations only (Like more or less blood, sounds, voices): Blizzard need to make money of this, small payments is the true call here. Again, like LoL.
3)Dont ever touch the units and try to "Balance" de game: Dont touch the game, leave it as is or you will destroy it.
4)Dont make Match making automatic: 2v2 3v3 games are very good, automatic game search will destroy this.
I dont have time for explain all this, i had been playing sc1 from 1999
Blizzard should hire members of this forum, should hire tasteless, artosis, and fired actual sc2 and sc1 managers, sorry.
Blizzard must not let some young fu-c-ker that just came out of University manage this art game. And please let Koreans elevate Starcraft, they are the executors and masters.
Regards,
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On August 08 2016 03:55 Dental Floss wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2016 03:52 ProMeTheus112 wrote:On August 08 2016 03:50 trutaCz wrote:
I think i need to write it as simply as possible because people dont understand: maintaining UI, selection wrecks the whole balance in the game. breaks all things which were developed for many years. but it's not like another balance doesn't exist if the UI changed. it's a matter of who is interested in that or not, and if the context is good for experimenting with that or not. If the UI gets changed to allow even small changes or something huge like MBS only amateurs will play that version and the pro scene will never use anything except the classic BW client. Seriously, they won't touch it. Flash told mike morhaime that it was the most complete game ever, and that means that it doesnt need that kind of new feature, and I beliewe that this is the view of the entire pro scene.
Just putting this out there but there is far more money in making the game accessible to new players than improving it for pros.I'm betting on blizz following the money.They've already said they will "improve the UI", I'm guessing that means more than a reskin.
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On August 08 2016 11:04 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2016 03:55 Dental Floss wrote:On August 08 2016 03:52 ProMeTheus112 wrote:On August 08 2016 03:50 trutaCz wrote:
I think i need to write it as simply as possible because people dont understand: maintaining UI, selection wrecks the whole balance in the game. breaks all things which were developed for many years. but it's not like another balance doesn't exist if the UI changed. it's a matter of who is interested in that or not, and if the context is good for experimenting with that or not. If the UI gets changed to allow even small changes or something huge like MBS only amateurs will play that version and the pro scene will never use anything except the classic BW client. Seriously, they won't touch it. Flash told mike morhaime that it was the most complete game ever, and that means that it doesnt need that kind of new feature, and I beliewe that this is the view of the entire pro scene. Just putting this out there but there is far more money in making the game accessible to new players than improving it for pros.I'm betting on blizz following the money.They've already said they will "improve the UI", I'm guessing that means more than a reskin.
I really feel like Blizzard's main motivation for this is the fact that Brood War is borderline unplayable for most people. They still have the game for sale on their shop, and when people buy it they can't play it. I actually suspect this work they're doing is motivated by a serious influx of support tickets from angry customers demanding refunds for a game that is hugely popular and widely talked about, which after downloading, couldn't get to work properly. That's pretty embarrassing for Blizzard, and so I think they just want a game that people can reliably download and play legitimately. It's the least they can do.
I don't see them changing things like unit selection limit - can you imagine Jaedong's mutas? Yikes. The mentioned "UI Improvements" could well relate only to in-game lobby and battle.net. I guess we just have to wait and see.
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changing things like 12 selection and single building selection would be like taking out dribbling rules in basketball or no-hands rules in soccer or erasing the lines on a tennis court etc etc. it would make things easier for the pro players and then quality of play will go up right? they're just outdated rules that make it harder for new players to start right? haha
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you forgot to make the hoop bigger
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I don't think this HD remastered version will affect the current scene much. For me this will likely go the same way as it did with Age of Empires 2. They will release an HD version with maybe MBS, automining etc. and use the Battle.net 2.0. The resolution change itself is already a big change in terms of gameplay as you will see half the map on one screen so additional UI changes don't matter much anyway and are more likely.
The remastered version will have a new server and new players will start out there. But I doubt anything will change for the competitive BW scene as well as the private servers like fish and ICCUP. The "worst" that can happen to the current scene is some new players want to play more competitive and switch to the original BW version.
In AoE2 it is like this, the most competitive players use a private platform and play with the old version while the newer players play the HD version over steam.
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France1919 Posts
On August 08 2016 11:16 prOxi.swAMi wrote:
I really feel like Blizzard's main motivation for this is the fact that Brood War is borderline unplayable for most people. They still have the game for sale on their shop, and when people buy it they can't play it. I actually suspect this work they're doing is motivated by a serious influx of support tickets from angry customers demanding refunds for a game that is hugely popular and widely talked about, which after downloading, couldn't get to work properly. That's pretty embarrassing for Blizzard, and so I think they just want a game that people can reliably download and play legitimately. It's the least they can do.
I don't see them changing things like unit selection limit - can you imagine Jaedong's mutas? Yikes. The mentioned "UI Improvements" could well relate only to in-game lobby and battle.net. I guess we just have to wait and see.
Yeah I think you are spot on. People are over reacting, Blizzard won't touch the gameplay at all, they are sometimes dumb but not this dumb.
What might be a problem though is stuff that they would not foresee like improving the graphics causing to change the sprites sizes and therefore affecting gameplay.
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On August 08 2016 21:03 HaN- wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2016 11:16 prOxi.swAMi wrote:
I really feel like Blizzard's main motivation for this is the fact that Brood War is borderline unplayable for most people. They still have the game for sale on their shop, and when people buy it they can't play it. I actually suspect this work they're doing is motivated by a serious influx of support tickets from angry customers demanding refunds for a game that is hugely popular and widely talked about, which after downloading, couldn't get to work properly. That's pretty embarrassing for Blizzard, and so I think they just want a game that people can reliably download and play legitimately. It's the least they can do.
I don't see them changing things like unit selection limit - can you imagine Jaedong's mutas? Yikes. The mentioned "UI Improvements" could well relate only to in-game lobby and battle.net. I guess we just have to wait and see. Yeah I think you are spot on. People are over reacting, Blizzard won't touch the gameplay at all, they are sometimes dumb but not this dumb. What might be a problem though is stuff that they would not foresee like improving the graphics causing to change the sprites sizes and therefore affecting gameplay.
I don't see any change in sprites affecting gameplay other than valkyries won't bug out. Which is something good to fix I guess.
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On August 08 2016 08:12 tumejoramigo wrote:
If this is true they sould (Please Blizzard listen to me):
1)Make the game for free (This is why LoL is so popular): That will put starcraft where it should be, in the top games played.
2)Pay for skins and animations only (Like more or less blood, sounds, voices): Blizzard need to make money of this, small payments is the true call here. Again, like LoL.
3)Dont ever touch the units and try to "Balance" de game: Dont touch the game, leave it as is or you will destroy it.
4)Dont make Match making automatic: 2v2 3v3 games are very good, automatic game search will destroy this.
I dont have time for explain all this, i had been playing sc1 from 1999
Blizzard should hire members of this forum, should hire tasteless, artosis, and fired actual sc2 and sc1 managers, sorry.
Blizzard must not let some young fu-c-ker that just came out of University manage this art game. And please let Koreans elevate Starcraft, they are the executors and masters.
Regards,
1. Pointless as the game is easy to pirate anyway
2. Nope.
3. Yep except for making units not glitch like valkyries and the sprite limit.
4. Don't know.
Yes for people from these forums. No for Artosis and Tasteless
Absolutely fucking no for Koreans to elevate StarCraft. They QQ harder than foreigners but luckily since we don't pay attention due to language differences we don't notice that.
Edit: Is it me or the mod made the note for the wrong thread? Most of the SC2 vs BW is on the BW esport thread.
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On August 08 2016 05:14 B-royal wrote:
They are planning on releasing a 1.17 patch, how are they going to cash in on this? Maybe I'm missing something. Or maybe this indicates that they're just interested in supporting one of their legacy games as it is one the games that put blizzard on the map. People have been supporting this game for almost 2 decades (the amount of games with a similar lifespan while still being competitive and having tournaments for it can be counted on 1 hand). As a company this is something you can put some effort in without planning on making a "lot of cash".
So it doesn't make any sense at all for me to try to expand towards casual players. What even is your definition of a casual player? Have you ever talked to an average gamer? Even they think starcraft 2 (!) is way too hard for them and too stressful. Is this your target audience? Or maybe, it makes more sense to keep the gameplay exactly the same and only consider cosmetic changes, and improvements to the platform such as bnet. And by doing this, they could if all goes to plan, profit a lot if the entire korean scene switches over.
Itp easy. Blizzard is still selling sc bw but you cant run it flawless on modern Windows. They selling bugged software untill 1.17 patch
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On August 08 2016 21:03 HaN- wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2016 11:16 prOxi.swAMi wrote:
Yeah I think you are spot on. People are over reacting, Blizzard won't touch the gameplay at all, they are sometimes dumb but not this dumb.
+ Show Spoiler +
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On August 08 2016 20:08 Cryoc wrote:
I don't think this HD remastered version will affect the current scene much. For me this will likely go the same way as it did with Age of Empires 2. They will release an HD version with maybe MBS, automining etc. and use the Battle.net 2.0. The resolution change itself is already a big change in terms of gameplay as you will see half the map on one screen so additional UI changes don't matter much anyway and are more likely.
The remastered version will have a new server and new players will start out there. But I doubt anything will change for the competitive BW scene as well as the private servers like fish and ICCUP. The "worst" that can happen to the current scene is some new players want to play more competitive and switch to the original BW version.
In AoE2 it is like this, the most competitive players use a private platform and play with the old version while the newer players play the HD version over steam.
yeah it could be that way, but we can't say for sure i guess. It depends a lot on how much the gameplay is affected by the upcoming UI changes. IF the majority of us (hardcore gamers) get the impression, it's to far off from "original BW" it will be likely as you depicted, yes. But IF the gameplay is very very close to "original BW" i can see many people switching over just to have a bigger playerbase. It very much depends on the end product.
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On August 08 2016 21:03 HaN- wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2016 11:16 prOxi.swAMi wrote:
I really feel like Blizzard's main motivation for this is the fact that Brood War is borderline unplayable for most people. They still have the game for sale on their shop, and when people buy it they can't play it. I actually suspect this work they're doing is motivated by a serious influx of support tickets from angry customers demanding refunds for a game that is hugely popular and widely talked about, which after downloading, couldn't get to work properly. That's pretty embarrassing for Blizzard, and so I think they just want a game that people can reliably download and play legitimately. It's the least they can do.
I don't see them changing things like unit selection limit - can you imagine Jaedong's mutas? Yikes. The mentioned "UI Improvements" could well relate only to in-game lobby and battle.net. I guess we just have to wait and see. Yeah I think you are spot on. People are over reacting, Blizzard won't touch the gameplay at all, they are sometimes dumb but not this dumb. What might be a problem though is stuff that they would not foresee like improving the graphics causing to change the sprites sizes and therefore affecting gameplay.
I dunno...they did think having kerrigan consume the essence of good guy cthulu to become flaming angel kerrigan was a good idea.
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I don't think bw needs an HD update.. I think it's graphics look really good the way they are
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Hopeful, that they won't make them cartoonish like all the new blizzard titles. IMO a big part of starcraft 1 is the dark and gloomy atmosphere.
EDIT: To specify i just hope they update texture resolution and that's it.
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EPT
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