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This is NOT a BW vs SC2 topic thread. Be cautious of what you post. Starting Page 26, warnings/bans will be handed out if this note is ignored. | ||
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Thouhastmail
Korea (North)876 Posts
On August 09 2016 16:46 Wrath wrote: The notification on top of the thread made me think... Can we have a mega thread for BW vs SC2? Sounds funny to me, it wont happen tho. | ||
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Wintex
Norway16838 Posts
Brood War doesn't need anything but a few fixes to shit like valks. Change yourself for the game, don't change the game to suit your needs. That's selfish. | ||
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KameZerg
Sweden1769 Posts
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Wrath
3174 Posts
On August 09 2016 17:21 Wintex wrote: Team liquid is literally the only place where people start slinging shit instead of being happy a game developer does something, and there's never any faith in anything called competency. Be happy guys! Brood War doesn't need anything but a few fixes to shit like valks. Change yourself for the game, don't change the game to suit your needs. That's selfish. Where the heck do you see people asking for game to change to suit us here? I don't see them here but mostly on Reddit. | ||
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Wrath
3174 Posts
On August 09 2016 17:20 Thouhastmail wrote: Sounds funny to me, it wont happen tho. Yep, it would be super fun to shit post on each other. I believe it will generate more fun than the ABL thread. | ||
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opisska
Poland8852 Posts
On August 09 2016 17:21 Wintex wrote: Team liquid is literally the only place where people start slinging shit instead of being happy a game developer does something, and there's never any faith in anything called competency. Be happy guys! Brood War doesn't need anything but a few fixes to shit like valks. Change yourself for the game, don't change the game to suit your needs. That's selfish. It's selfish to want a software code to suit my wishes instead of the opposite? Really? Don't you think that this BW worship is getting a little bit ridiculous? It's a piece of software, not a living deity. Not that the first half of your post is any better - the strategy to call any other opinion than yours "slinging shit" is a well-known one used often to stop any discussion that you don't like. It doesn't really give you the high position you are imagining. If you look at the thread, there isn't very much negativity, there are just two main groups of people who have different wishes. That's kind of what you would expect from a society with a plurality of thought, right? Personally, I think that making two versions is what Blizzard actually should do and it would be great. | ||
BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50844 Posts
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Phredxor
New Zealand15076 Posts
On August 09 2016 17:41 BLinD-RawR wrote: nah two versions would be confusing, why not make an actually good product that appeals to everyone.I know its hard but I know devs in blizzard are pretty passionate. I think it's basically impossible is why. You have the die hard BW fans, but if you give them what you want I really don't think the game will attract any new players. And if they try to modernize it at all it will upset all of the old BW players, as shown in this thread. And i'd love to be wrong. I'll be playing it either way, if it's just new graphics or with some other changes. | ||
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Wintex
Norway16838 Posts
On August 09 2016 17:29 opisska wrote: It's selfish to want a software code to suit my wishes instead of the opposite? Really? Don't you think that this BW worship is getting a little bit ridiculous? It's a piece of software, not a living deity. Not that the first half of your post is any better - the strategy to call any other opinion than yours "slinging shit" is a well-known one used often to stop any discussion that you don't like. It doesn't really give you the high position you are imagining. If you look at the thread, there isn't very much negativity, there are just two main groups of people who have different wishes. That's kind of what you would expect from a society with a plurality of thought, right? Personally, I think that making two versions is what Blizzard actually should do and it would be great. Ok dude you need to calm down. It's not about it being a living deity or whatever. BW is history, and the game still has loads of depth that can be poked at. Two versions just divides the community. Better to just create an official custom game then titled BW with supporting wheels. Which I still think serves little purpose. I don't understand why this game needs some of the changes talked about when there are so many games in this day and age. I mean honestly... LOTV, even as the expansion with least focus on macro mechanics, won't pull the masses people want it to pull. BW is known by many and still played by a few, and the risks of changing the good formula you have only risks the relationship people have to the game already. If you really think the stuff you say in the middle part of your post, ok dude. I meant that people really doubt Blizzard unbelievably much, and it harms the good vibe that we might be getting a remaster. | ||
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50844 Posts
On August 09 2016 17:43 Phredxor wrote: I think it's basically impossible is why. You have the die hard BW fans, but if you give them what you want I really don't think the game will attract any new players. And if they try to modernize it at all it will upset all of the old BW players, as shown in this thread. if they're not changing balance(more or less confirmed) then they're not "modernizing" it, limited unit selection and no MBS were intentionally design decisions, changes to that would cause huge ramifications, it'd be nice if people didn't ignore this fact. | ||
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Miragee
8658 Posts
On August 09 2016 17:41 BLinD-RawR wrote: nah two versions would be confusing, why not make an actually good product that appeals to everyone.I know its hard but I know devs in blizzard are pretty passionate. That's something Blizzard and most major companies tried to do over the last decade and failed miserably at. You just can't make a product that appeals to everyone. And if you try to make one it's most likely going to suck badly. No, they need to make a good product for once and not one that appeals to a large audience. Period. | ||
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duke91
Germany1458 Posts
On August 09 2016 17:29 opisska wrote: It's selfish to want a software code to suit my wishes instead of the opposite? Really? Don't you think that this BW worship is getting a little bit ridiculous? It's a piece of software, not a living deity. So people from the SC2 forum come here and say that BW worship is getting ridiculous... It's like an atheist going to a church and saying that this Jesus worship is getting ridiculous Don't you think this is ridiculous? | ||
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Wintex
Norway16838 Posts
On August 09 2016 18:03 Miragee wrote: That's something Blizzard and most major companies tried to do over the last decade and failed miserably at. You just can't make a product that appeals to everyone. And if you try to make one it's most likely going to suck badly. No, they need to make a good product for once and not one that appeals to a large audience. Period. Pretty much this is why I don't want those QoL changes. The game is amazing. It has a following. New nerds from the West will come as long as the graphics are nice. Changes will just make it different and harms what Brood War is. If you don't want the game as it is, maybe you've just outgrown it or whatever. The 12 unit selection cap was archaic ever since it was introduced, but it allowed for a depth not seen again in games, through allowing a lot of the Zerg arsenal to be kept in check from the physical requirements. MBS also reduces the total awe you have for the professionals with amazing macro. Pathfinding and stuff being suboptimal creates a battle where the amount of attention to detail actually matters at the micro level. I mean. Archery in the Olympics is blessed with new tools and the bows are more amazing than ever, but the pure mechanics of the sport are the same. | ||
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duke91
Germany1458 Posts
So what's the point in introducing QoL changes when you don't go allin and change everything else, including SC2 like graphics? Also it would make BW veterans not even consider buying BW HD since as you know, any huge QoL changes would not make it feel like BW at all. It's stupid that somehow Broodwar(!) should change in order to pamper to SC2 people. You have your game. Play SC2 and leave BW alone. | ||
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iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4410 Posts
On August 09 2016 17:25 ICanFlyLow wrote: Yes those ppl asking for mbs and auto will prolly pick up the game and play a max of 1 or 2 weeks then ditch it and forget about it. Not because of the implemented features but cuz most of them are not bw players to begin with. OK, but maybe blizzard doesn't care if they play the game for 1 week or 5 years as long as they actually buy the game. It's about getting people to buy the game, you can bring in far more new players by bringing in new features like MBS. | ||
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Phredxor
New Zealand15076 Posts
On August 09 2016 17:48 BLinD-RawR wrote: if they're not changing balance(more or less confirmed) then they're not "modernizing" it, limited unit selection and no MBS were intentionally design decisions, changes to that would cause huge ramifications, it'd be nice if people didn't ignore this fact. I'm well aware of that. I'm just saying that it's not gonna attract new players or anything with new graphics. | ||
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egrimm
Poland1199 Posts
On August 09 2016 17:43 Phredxor wrote: I think it's basically impossible is why. You have the die hard BW fans, but if you give them what you want I really don't think the game will attract any new players. And if they try to modernize it at all it will upset all of the old BW players, as shown in this thread. And i'd love to be wrong. I'll be playing it either way, if it's just new graphics or with some other changes. Yeah I also feel this way. Any change to actual game will make hc BW fans unhappy, being it changing max resolution to HD, polishing textures, removing some bugs/quirks, improving AI and pathing or updating UI and I didn't even mentioned more controversial stuff like unlimited selection or MBS. On the other hand not changing anything in gameplay will not result in any significant playerbase growth I fear. That's way I also would like to see 2 "versions": 1. "Oldschool" where no gameplay is changed, only added support for new OSes, bn2 ladder/matchmaking and cross game chat, and maybe fixed some obvious bugs (discussed with community) 2. "Newshool" with highly modifiable features like high-res support, new textures, improved AI and pathing, updated and customizable UI or even automining, unlimited selection or MBS. Pros and hardcore fans would play first version. New players, casuals etc would play the second version customized for theirs needs. | ||
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trifecta
United States6795 Posts
There's already a modern role model for a remaster of a game of similar circumstances: Dota 2. Valve's original goal was to replicate Dota1 as faithfully as possible in a new engine and client and for the most part succeeded. The vast majority of the awkward and "annoying" and "quirky" mechanics in Dota 1 were ported over to the "new" game, and while most Dota1 players switched, there are still people who find that it's not exact enough of a port. However, relatively recently, the main developer of Dota stopped updating the Warcraft custom map to maintain parity with Dota2. After that point (Version 6.83 released last year), Dota 2 was no longer just a port but its own game. In contrast to BW, Dota1/2 was in continuous development, and only now, some of those old ported quirks are being ironed out in the "new" post-port game. I argue that these changes are justified in Dota 2 for this reason and it is also the reason why a BW remaster should not change the original design, warts and all (within practical limits). It defeats the whole purpose to release a remaster of a game that never existed (i.e. BW with MBS etc). As for new players etc, these arguments are already pointless. SC2 has modern UI, control, pathfinding etc and new/casual players still find it too difficult and intimidating to play. RTS as a genre needs way more change and innovation if you want to attract and retain those new/casual players similar to how League or HOTS or dozens of alternatives adapted the Dota design without many of the old/difficult/weird mechanics. | ||
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NeonFlare
Finland1307 Posts
On August 09 2016 18:28 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: OK, but maybe blizzard doesn't care if they play the game for 1 week or 5 years as long as they actually buy the game. It's about getting people to buy the game, you can bring in far more new players by bringing in new features like MBS. Surely it would be easier to just cash in with a multiplayer mod/campaign remake (sell as mission pack or something) within SC2 than go on your way to remake BW for the sake of cashing in new players. SC2 already has modern graphics and all the QoL built within, why would they put the effor to fight against ancient game engine or rework everything instead? | ||
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Krieg1
14 Posts
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