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This is NOT a BW vs SC2 topic thread. Be cautious of what you post. Starting Page 26, warnings/bans will be handed out if this note is ignored. |
On August 10 2016 01:07 Cele wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2016 00:51 The_Red_Viper wrote:
I tried to insult all the people who think that "bw is sacred and if you even argue that you could change things you are blasphemous" tbh. If that failed i apologize i didn't want to "insult" only one person, he was just the prime example. Well: People in this thread are Broodwar fans. Some of us have been supporting this game for over a decade. We enjoy the game as it is, thus we wish for no changes. It's actually fairly simple. But if you're here to insult the entirety of the players who feel that way, i guess your on the wrong section.
Being a fan is not the problem. Wanting bw to stay the same as it is now is also not the problem. I respect quite a lot of bw fans here, what i don't respect is this radical religious (!) concept and the effects it has. Quite a clear difference tbh.
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On August 10 2016 01:07 Cele wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2016 00:51 The_Red_Viper wrote:
I tried to insult all the people who think that "bw is sacred and if you even argue that you could change things you are blasphemous" tbh. If that failed i apologize i didn't want to "insult" only one person, he was just the prime example. Well: People in this thread are Broodwar fans. Some of us have been supporting this game for over a decade. We enjoy the game as it is, thus we wish for no changes. It's actually fairly simple. But if you're here to insult the entirety of the players who feel that way, i guess your on the wrong section.
This "section" thing is really interesting. We have the SC2 forum, where people can come day and night and write endless essays about how SC2 sucks balls like nothing else and how it should be immediately changed as close to BW as possible and they can do that freely and even get applause for how smart they are. Then we have the BW forum where merely suggesting that BW could be slightly changed is the worst thing ever. Makes sense.
The whole "BW vs. SC2" ordeal is pretty stupid and I am sorry, but the main problem is the self-proclaimed "BW fans", in particular the tragic remains of a community that lingers in this very subforum. Surely, there are assholes playing SC2, as with anything, but I am pretty sure that the majority of people who watch and play SC2 have no agenda starting any "BW vs SC2" fights, or even separating players into "BW fans" and "SC2 fans". In fact, BW fans are actively welcome in anything SC2 related, so why are all the "TL BW people" so hostile against anyone who likes SC2?
I for one refuse this "world order". I don't agree that the discussion on everything related to BW is the sole property of a group of hostile self-absorbed egomaniacs who have proclaimed them to be the Only True Believers. I don't consider my opinion inferior, just because it doesn't align with the BW fan circlejerk. C'mon people, just read some of the "hardcore BW elitist" (whatever that insane label means) post and try to imagine how absurd they would sound to you if they concerned any other topic in existence. Even the guy who made the parallel with a church, was trying to make a pro-BW-team point ... just thing about how insane that thinking is: that much self-reflection is lacking in this community. (And for the record, yes, I am an aggressive atheist and if I ever found myself caught in a religious debate in a church, I would have no problems talking about how silly the religion in question is.)
User was warned for this post
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On August 10 2016 00:51 The_Red_Viper wrote:
I tried to insult all the people who think that "bw is sacred and if you even argue that you could change things you are blasphemous" tbh. If that failed i apologize i didn't want to "insult" only one person, he was just the prime example.
so you are telling me the only that is stoping people from playing bw its the features your are asking for ?
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On August 10 2016 00:51 The_Red_Viper wrote:
I tried to insult all the people who think that "bw is sacred and if you even argue that you could change things you are blasphemous" tbh. If that failed i apologize i didn't want to "insult" only one person, he was just the prime example.
that's the spirit! Is that your ultimate life goal yet? lmao. Btw what you call "hardcore bw crowd" is the only reason bw is of any relevance. Any change to the game mechanics will reset the pro scene with a decent chance of it never recovering. That's exactly what we do not want. Do you?
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On August 10 2016 01:24 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2016 00:51 The_Red_Viper wrote:
I tried to insult all the people who think that "bw is sacred and if you even argue that you could change things you are blasphemous" tbh. If that failed i apologize i didn't want to "insult" only one person, he was just the prime example. so you are telling me the only that is stoping people from playing bw its the features your are asking for ?
No i also never said that. I merely suggested that discussing these things might actually be interesting. The problem is that as soon as you bring it up there are tons of people who don't even read what you write / don't want to understand it / cannot understand it and it immediately becomes the same old bw vs sc2 topic again where bw is perfect in every sense of the word and everyone who thinks otherwise (or simply tries to reflect on different povs) is defined as not worth talking to.
As opisska already said, try to imagine this attitude on another topic, does that sound reasonable at all? No obviously not.
On August 10 2016 01:24 juvenal wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2016 00:51 The_Red_Viper wrote:
I tried to insult all the people who think that "bw is sacred and if you even argue that you could change things you are blasphemous" tbh. If that failed i apologize i didn't want to "insult" only one person, he was just the prime example. that's the spirit! Is that your ultimate life goal yet? lmao. Btw what you call "hardcore bw crowd" is the only reason bw is of any relevance. Any change to the game mechanics will reset the pro scene with a decent chance of it never recovering. That's exactly what we do not want. Do you?
Nice simplistic view. If we simply state a worst case scenario is the most likely outcome we don't have to actually argue at all, great idea!
If you would have actually read my posts in this thread you would have noticed that that's actually not the intent i have at all ("destroy the scene"). Nice try though!
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On August 10 2016 01:27 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2016 01:24 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:On August 10 2016 00:51 The_Red_Viper wrote:
I tried to insult all the people who think that "bw is sacred and if you even argue that you could change things you are blasphemous" tbh. If that failed i apologize i didn't want to "insult" only one person, he was just the prime example. so you are telling me the only that is stoping people from playing bw its the features your are asking for ? No i also never said that. I merely suggested that discussing these things might actually be interesting. The problem is that as soon as you bring it up there are tons of people who don't even read what you write / don't want to understand it / cannot understand it and it immediately becomes the same old bw vs sc2 topic again where bw is perfect in every sense of the word and everyone who thinks otherwise (or simply tries to reflect on different povs) is defined as not worth talking to. As opisska already said, try to imagine this attitude on another topic, does that sound reasonable at all? No obviously not.
yeah but do you actually play bw or know how bw truly works? I mean would a ping pong player know how tennis works? lol
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On August 10 2016 01:31 Shinokuki wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2016 01:27 The_Red_Viper wrote:On August 10 2016 01:24 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:On August 10 2016 00:51 The_Red_Viper wrote:
I tried to insult all the people who think that "bw is sacred and if you even argue that you could change things you are blasphemous" tbh. If that failed i apologize i didn't want to "insult" only one person, he was just the prime example. so you are telling me the only that is stoping people from playing bw its the features your are asking for ? No i also never said that. I merely suggested that discussing these things might actually be interesting. The problem is that as soon as you bring it up there are tons of people who don't even read what you write / don't want to understand it / cannot understand it and it immediately becomes the same old bw vs sc2 topic again where bw is perfect in every sense of the word and everyone who thinks otherwise (or simply tries to reflect on different povs) is defined as not worth talking to. As opisska already said, try to imagine this attitude on another topic, does that sound reasonable at all? No obviously not. yeah but do you actually play bw or know how bw truly works? I mean would a ping pong player know how tennis works? lol
yoyo! This is not a Tennis vs Table Tennis thread right here! Careful.
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On August 10 2016 01:31 Shinokuki wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2016 01:27 The_Red_Viper wrote:On August 10 2016 01:24 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:On August 10 2016 00:51 The_Red_Viper wrote:
I tried to insult all the people who think that "bw is sacred and if you even argue that you could change things you are blasphemous" tbh. If that failed i apologize i didn't want to "insult" only one person, he was just the prime example. so you are telling me the only that is stoping people from playing bw its the features your are asking for ? No i also never said that. I merely suggested that discussing these things might actually be interesting. The problem is that as soon as you bring it up there are tons of people who don't even read what you write / don't want to understand it / cannot understand it and it immediately becomes the same old bw vs sc2 topic again where bw is perfect in every sense of the word and everyone who thinks otherwise (or simply tries to reflect on different povs) is defined as not worth talking to. As opisska already said, try to imagine this attitude on another topic, does that sound reasonable at all? No obviously not. yeah but do you actually play bw or know how bw truly works? I mean would a ping pong player know how tennis works? lol
Yeah but do you actually read the posts and understand them? I mean would someone who didn't read shakespeare try to discuss it? lol
I don't know how often i actually have to write that i think these mechanics are important for the gameplay and i know that. Only coming from this angle is simply not very interesting at all, there are a lot more things to consider, is it really that hard to understand that?
edit: to answer your question btw: Yes a ping pong player would understand how tennis works if he actually invested time in "researching" it. But sure keep attacking the messenger (ping pong player) and not the message (arguments, reasoning), very intelligent thing to do.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50532 Posts
On August 10 2016 01:22 opisska wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2016 01:07 Cele wrote:On August 10 2016 00:51 The_Red_Viper wrote:
I tried to insult all the people who think that "bw is sacred and if you even argue that you could change things you are blasphemous" tbh. If that failed i apologize i didn't want to "insult" only one person, he was just the prime example. Well: People in this thread are Broodwar fans. Some of us have been supporting this game for over a decade. We enjoy the game as it is, thus we wish for no changes. It's actually fairly simple. But if you're here to insult the entirety of the players who feel that way, i guess your on the wrong section. This "section" thing is really interesting. We have the SC2 forum, where people can come day and night and write endless essays about how SC2 sucks balls like nothing else and how it should be immediately changed as close to BW as possible and they can do that freely and even get applause for how smart they are. Then we have the BW forum where merely suggesting that BW could be slightly changed is the worst thing ever. Makes sense. The whole "BW vs. SC2" ordeal is pretty stupid and I am sorry, but the main problem is the self-proclaimed "BW fans", in particular the tragic remains of a community that lingers in this very subforum. Surely, there are assholes playing SC2, as with anything, but I am pretty sure that the majority of people who watch and play SC2 have no agenda starting any "BW vs SC2" fights, or even separating players into "BW fans" and "SC2 fans". In fact, BW fans are actively welcome in anything SC2 related, so why are all the "TL BW people" so hostile against anyone who likes SC2? I for one refuse this "world order". I don't agree that the discussion on everything related to BW is the sole property of a group of hostile self-absorbed egomaniacs who have proclaimed them to be the Only True Believers. I don't consider my opinion inferior, just because it doesn't align with the BW fan circlejerk. C'mon people, just read some of the "hardcore BW elitist" (whatever that insane label means) post and try to imagine how absurd they would sound to you if they concerned any other topic in existence. Even the guy who made the parallel with a church, was trying to make a pro-BW-team point ... just thing about how insane that thinking is: that much self-reflection is lacking in this community. (And for the record, yes, I am an aggressive atheist and if I ever found myself caught in a religious debate in a church, I would have no problems talking about how silly the religion in question is.)
you need to take a chill pill or something, I understand that you have a problem with the BW community but I'll tell you, you can't change it, its annoying the way it is, but theres a part of the community thats jaded and in most cases justifiably so, their perception might change in the coming months or it won't.
I'll ask you this, have you considered what the BW community is saying rather than how they are saying it?Why they don't want any major changes to the game? Or do you just dismiss it as religious cult-like behavior.
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On August 10 2016 01:41 BLinD-RawR wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2016 01:22 opisska wrote:On August 10 2016 01:07 Cele wrote:On August 10 2016 00:51 The_Red_Viper wrote:
I tried to insult all the people who think that "bw is sacred and if you even argue that you could change things you are blasphemous" tbh. If that failed i apologize i didn't want to "insult" only one person, he was just the prime example. Well: People in this thread are Broodwar fans. Some of us have been supporting this game for over a decade. We enjoy the game as it is, thus we wish for no changes. It's actually fairly simple. But if you're here to insult the entirety of the players who feel that way, i guess your on the wrong section. This "section" thing is really interesting. We have the SC2 forum, where people can come day and night and write endless essays about how SC2 sucks balls like nothing else and how it should be immediately changed as close to BW as possible and they can do that freely and even get applause for how smart they are. Then we have the BW forum where merely suggesting that BW could be slightly changed is the worst thing ever. Makes sense. The whole "BW vs. SC2" ordeal is pretty stupid and I am sorry, but the main problem is the self-proclaimed "BW fans", in particular the tragic remains of a community that lingers in this very subforum. Surely, there are assholes playing SC2, as with anything, but I am pretty sure that the majority of people who watch and play SC2 have no agenda starting any "BW vs SC2" fights, or even separating players into "BW fans" and "SC2 fans". In fact, BW fans are actively welcome in anything SC2 related, so why are all the "TL BW people" so hostile against anyone who likes SC2? I for one refuse this "world order". I don't agree that the discussion on everything related to BW is the sole property of a group of hostile self-absorbed egomaniacs who have proclaimed them to be the Only True Believers. I don't consider my opinion inferior, just because it doesn't align with the BW fan circlejerk. C'mon people, just read some of the "hardcore BW elitist" (whatever that insane label means) post and try to imagine how absurd they would sound to you if they concerned any other topic in existence. Even the guy who made the parallel with a church, was trying to make a pro-BW-team point ... just thing about how insane that thinking is: that much self-reflection is lacking in this community. (And for the record, yes, I am an aggressive atheist and if I ever found myself caught in a religious debate in a church, I would have no problems talking about how silly the religion in question is.) you need to take a chill pill or something, I understand that you have a problem with the BW community but I'll tell you, you can't change it, its annoying the way it is, but theres a part of the community thats jaded and in most cases justifiably so, their perception might change in the coming months or it won't. I'll ask you this, have you considered what the BW community is saying rather than how they are saying it?Why they don't want any major changes to the game? Or do you just dismiss it as religious cult-like behavior.
There is a difference between saying that the gameplay would be changed (everybody acknowledges that btw) and saying that discussion around the subject of change is basically blasphemous. The first idea most people probably agree with, the second one is destructive to any form of discussion because bw is "the word of god".
So no it's not only a wording problem, it's an attitude problem.
It's ignorant, intellectually lazy and destructive and thus cannot be tolerated at all.
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All you do is calling people names, claiming they're opinions are wrong and useless, claiming you've got some interesting points to discuss and all you actually contributed was the question Captain Obvious would've been proud of:
On August 10 2016 00:39 The_Red_Viper wrote:
What can be done to attract these players while also make the hardcore crowd happy?
And you started it off with
On August 10 2016 00:39 The_Red_Viper wrote:
How fucking dense can people actually be in here?
Then you demanded we listen to you. Yeye, go on, we're listening carefully now.
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On August 10 2016 01:47 juvenal wrote:All you do is calling people names, claiming they're opinions are wrong and useless, claiming you've got some interesting points to discuss and all you actually contributed was the question Captain Obvious would've been proud of: Show nested quote +On August 10 2016 00:39 The_Red_Viper wrote:
What can be done to attract these players while also make the hardcore crowd happy? And you started it off with Show nested quote +On August 10 2016 00:39 The_Red_Viper wrote:
How fucking dense can people actually be in here? Then you demanded we listen to you. Yeye, go on, we're listening carefully now.
I never demanded anyone to listen to me, i demanded that people are actually open minded about discussion because that's a reasonable thing to do. Reflect on a subject, argue about it from multiple povs (you don't even have to agree with a pov to see that it has interesting, reasonable arguments to make nonetheless) and come to conclusions based on that. Saying any form of discussion about it is void because bw is already perfect or whatever reason you can come up with is incredibly lazy and destructive.
Maybe i shouldn't have started my second attempt with name calling, but i actually believe that a lot of "hardcore" bw fanatics (not fans) are incredibly dense, so there is that.
edit: i also never claimed that i have all the answers to these important questions (nobody does btw), i merely suggested that it's worth the discussion.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50532 Posts
On August 10 2016 01:57 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2016 01:47 juvenal wrote:All you do is calling people names, claiming they're opinions are wrong and useless, claiming you've got some interesting points to discuss and all you actually contributed was the question Captain Obvious would've been proud of: On August 10 2016 00:39 The_Red_Viper wrote:
What can be done to attract these players while also make the hardcore crowd happy? And you started it off with On August 10 2016 00:39 The_Red_Viper wrote:
How fucking dense can people actually be in here? Then you demanded we listen to you. Yeye, go on, we're listening carefully now. I never demanded anyone to listen to me, i demanded that people are actually open minded about discussion because that's a reasonable thing to do. Reflect on a subject, argue about it from multiple povs (you don't even have to agree with a pov to see that it has interesting, reasonable arguments to make nonetheless) and come to conclusions based on that. Saying any form of discussion about it is void because bw is already perfect or whatever reason you can come up with is incredibly lazy and destructive. Maybe i shouldn't have started my second attempt with name calling, but i actually believe that a lot of "hardcore" bw fanatics (not fans) are incredibly dense, so there is that. edit: i also never claimed that i have all the answers to these important questions (nobody does btw), i merely suggested that it's worth the discussion.
then start said discussion its ideal to have everyone discuss the same thing in the thread but at least it would be nice if someone were to discuss it with you instead of arguing that nobody wants to talk about it.
its silly to argue about arguing so lets not do that.
let me start, I genuinely believe that simple curiosity over how BW has managed to to survive this long might draw out a small number of new audience, obviously not a lot but you have agree its pretty wild that BW has managed to stay relevant after this long even after its pro scene is dead.
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On August 10 2016 01:22 opisska wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2016 01:07 Cele wrote:On August 10 2016 00:51 The_Red_Viper wrote:
I tried to insult all the people who think that "bw is sacred and if you even argue that you could change things you are blasphemous" tbh. If that failed i apologize i didn't want to "insult" only one person, he was just the prime example. Well: People in this thread are Broodwar fans. Some of us have been supporting this game for over a decade. We enjoy the game as it is, thus we wish for no changes. It's actually fairly simple. But if you're here to insult the entirety of the players who feel that way, i guess your on the wrong section. This "section" thing is really interesting. We have the SC2 forum, where people can come day and night and write endless essays about how SC2 sucks balls like nothing else and how it should be immediately changed as close to BW as possible and they can do that freely and even get applause for how smart they are. Then we have the BW forum where merely suggesting that BW could be slightly changed is the worst thing ever. Makes sense. The whole "BW vs. SC2" ordeal is pretty stupid and I am sorry, but the main problem is the self-proclaimed "BW fans", in particular the tragic remains of a community that lingers in this very subforum. Surely, there are assholes playing SC2, as with anything, but I am pretty sure that the majority of people who watch and play SC2 have no agenda starting any "BW vs SC2" fights, or even separating players into "BW fans" and "SC2 fans". In fact, BW fans are actively welcome in anything SC2 related, so why are all the "TL BW people" so hostile against anyone who likes SC2? I for one refuse this "world order". I don't agree that the discussion on everything related to BW is the sole property of a group of hostile self-absorbed egomaniacs who have proclaimed them to be the Only True Believers. I don't consider my opinion inferior, just because it doesn't align with the BW fan circlejerk. C'mon people, just read some of the "hardcore BW elitist" (whatever that insane label means) post and try to imagine how absurd they would sound to you if they concerned any other topic in existence. Even the guy who made the parallel with a church, was trying to make a pro-BW-team point ... just thing about how insane that thinking is: that much self-reflection is lacking in this community. (And for the record, yes, I am an aggressive atheist and if I ever found myself caught in a religious debate in a church, I would have no problems talking about how silly the religion in question is.)
just my 2 cents on the topic. this is something i've said for years, be it comparing BW with SC2, comparing GunZ The Duel to GunZ The Second Duel, comparing Oldschool Runescape to Runescape 3, Vanilla WoW with Retail, and even comparing Super Smash Bros. Melee to Brawl and Smash 4:
They're the same games at their core. People who've never played them before compare them to be "the same" simply because they "have the same name." To the players, that's not how it is. Each person, regardless of which side they belong to, hold their game closely as much as the other side would. And sure, they're grouped together because if their name and they're obviously drastically different.
They might be the same game at their core, and people should be grateful for that. But at the same time, they're drastically different and people shouldn't compare the two as much as they do. who cares if you think one is better than the other? they're so different they may as well be different games, and shouldnt be compared. Who cares if you pick one side or the other? it doesnt matter. Quite frankly, i like SC2 and SCBW for very different reasons
tl;dr the games are very different, dont compare them to each other. they're very different games and the two communities shouldnt be arguing over two very different games. otherwise it boils down to the "CoD vs Battlefield vs Counterstrike" argument.
aaaaaaaaaaaaaanyways, whens the part when i can go pro in brood war?
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The_Red_Viper I like your posts in the song of ice and fire thread, but you're out of your element here. You understand changing pathfinding, multiple building selection and unit selection limits would change brood war for the worse. You understand that the relevancy and continued survival of brood war hinges on it being arguably the most hardcore RTS game in existence. So why would you try to appeal casual gamers? Sc2 has all the things that some people in this thread are arguing for and the average gamer considers Sc2 too harcore and would rather play a MOBA. An attempt at an analogy... It's like trying to make extreme rock climbing more appealing to the less adventurous rock climber, making it essentially not extreme rock climbing anymore.
Finally, the introduction of BW HD could come with a lot of bad ramifications for the current BW players such as the undertaking of legal action against the private servers. If then BW HD is a completely different game from the original, this would be another kick in the face to BW supporters and players that have made this game achieve a legendary status.
People claim there's no monetary incentive to appeal only to the harcore brood war players (which is wrong, considering that an entire switch of Korea to BW HD could be quite rewarding). But why do people think there's a monetary incentive to appeal to the so-called casual gamer? Where's this mythical casual gamer that would love brood war if only it had multiple building selection, better pathfinding and unlimited unit selection? I can see a few dozen of always the same people arguing for these features in anything related to brood war, that's about it.
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On August 10 2016 01:57 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2016 01:47 juvenal wrote:All you do is calling people names, claiming they're opinions are wrong and useless, claiming you've got some interesting points to discuss and all you actually contributed was the question Captain Obvious would've been proud of: On August 10 2016 00:39 The_Red_Viper wrote:
What can be done to attract these players while also make the hardcore crowd happy? And you started it off with On August 10 2016 00:39 The_Red_Viper wrote:
How fucking dense can people actually be in here? Then you demanded we listen to you. Yeye, go on, we're listening carefully now. I never demanded anyone to listen to me, i demanded that people are actually open minded about discussion because that's a reasonable thing to do. Reflect on a subject, argue about it from multiple povs (you don't even have to agree with a pov to see that it has interesting, reasonable arguments to make nonetheless) and come to conclusions based on that. Saying any form of discussion about it is void because bw is already perfect or whatever reason you can come up with is incredibly lazy and destructive. Maybe i shouldn't have started my second attempt with name calling, but i actually believe that a lot of "hardcore" bw fanatics (not fans) are incredibly dense, so there is that. edit: i also never claimed that i have all the answers to these important questions (nobody does btw), i merely suggested that it's worth the discussion.
You seem knowledgeable about this topic. So whats your suggested improvement that bw can look forward to
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On August 10 2016 02:07 BLinD-RawR wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2016 01:57 The_Red_Viper wrote:On August 10 2016 01:47 juvenal wrote:All you do is calling people names, claiming they're opinions are wrong and useless, claiming you've got some interesting points to discuss and all you actually contributed was the question Captain Obvious would've been proud of: On August 10 2016 00:39 The_Red_Viper wrote:
What can be done to attract these players while also make the hardcore crowd happy? And you started it off with On August 10 2016 00:39 The_Red_Viper wrote:
How fucking dense can people actually be in here? Then you demanded we listen to you. Yeye, go on, we're listening carefully now. I never demanded anyone to listen to me, i demanded that people are actually open minded about discussion because that's a reasonable thing to do. Reflect on a subject, argue about it from multiple povs (you don't even have to agree with a pov to see that it has interesting, reasonable arguments to make nonetheless) and come to conclusions based on that. Saying any form of discussion about it is void because bw is already perfect or whatever reason you can come up with is incredibly lazy and destructive. Maybe i shouldn't have started my second attempt with name calling, but i actually believe that a lot of "hardcore" bw fanatics (not fans) are incredibly dense, so there is that. edit: i also never claimed that i have all the answers to these important questions (nobody does btw), i merely suggested that it's worth the discussion. then start said discussion its ideal to have everyone discuss the same thing in the thread but at least it would be nice if someone were to discuss it with you instead of arguing that nobody wants to talk about it. its silly to argue about arguing so lets not do that. let me start, I genuinely believe that simple curiosity over how BW has managed to to survive this long might draw out a small number of new audience, obviously not a lot but you have agree its pretty wild that BW has managed to stay relevant after this long even after its pro scene is dead.
Don't imply that nobody tried to bring these topics up. The reaction to it is the reason i started with this in the first place. As soon as someone tries to start a discussion the usual ignorant statement spawn immediately ("lol you know nothing about bw", "anybody who says something like this should just be ignored", yadayadayada). Let's be real for a moment here.
About your statement, yes sure i don't doubt that this is true to som extent, if it would be f2p a lot of people would surely check it out. The objective then has to keep them playing though or in the case of an upfront cost to make them buy it in the first place. A lot of sc2 people would probably check it out just because they hear tasteless and co talk about bw (and now even see them cast bw), so blizzard will surely make some money here. But ideally as a community you want these people to stay, no?
Personally i don't have a problem with these limitations, which is why it's funny that i get attacked for simply proposing that the average gamer doesn't agree with that pov though.
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This entire thread is just lmao until details get announced.
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TLADT24920 Posts
On August 10 2016 01:57 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2016 01:47 juvenal wrote:All you do is calling people names, claiming they're opinions are wrong and useless, claiming you've got some interesting points to discuss and all you actually contributed was the question Captain Obvious would've been proud of: On August 10 2016 00:39 The_Red_Viper wrote:
What can be done to attract these players while also make the hardcore crowd happy? And you started it off with On August 10 2016 00:39 The_Red_Viper wrote:
How fucking dense can people actually be in here? Then you demanded we listen to you. Yeye, go on, we're listening carefully now. I never demanded anyone to listen to me, i demanded that people are actually open minded about discussion because that's a reasonable thing to do. Reflect on a subject, argue about it from multiple povs (you don't even have to agree with a pov to see that it has interesting, reasonable arguments to make nonetheless) and come to conclusions based on that. Saying any form of discussion about it is void because bw is already perfect or whatever reason you can come up with is incredibly lazy and destructive. Maybe i shouldn't have started my second attempt with name calling, but i actually believe that a lot of "hardcore" bw fanatics (not fans) are incredibly dense, so there is that.edit: i also never claimed that i have all the answers to these important questions (nobody does btw), i merely suggested that it's worth the discussion.
lol. You retracted your statement but then you decided to say it is.
I'm not sure if I'm fitting in your list of dense people for my comment below:
On August 09 2016 15:44 BigFan wrote:
You can't crush interceptors with your cc. Afaik, it was patched out ages ago. Also, no change to balance (even though scouts could use something), no mbs, no smart casting and no change to the 12 units in a group limitation. All these are essential features in BW. The game wouldn't be the same if a single one of these was changed.
I thought the reason for wanting any of these changes was quite obvious to anyone following the scene. BW is known for being a hardcore RTS. I mentioned to a friend that I played brood war (or maybe just starcraft, don't remember 100% tbh), the response? that's pretty hardcore lol. Point is simple, BW has built its reputation around being a hardcore RTS with an unattainable skill ceiling and a high skill floor.
Things like 12 unit selection were a design choice. They weren't due to technological limitations so changing that is basically changing the game. Changing mbs will lower the skill level and a lot of the balance that we currently have in BW is due to control group limitations, lack of smart casting and also AI limitations. Even if Blizzard just left the unit selection as is but changed mbs and smart casting, the game loses its identity.
Heck, even changing the graphics could have unexpected changes. Depending on how they implement the change, they can wreck BW imo (does it change the viewing area? If yes, don't want it!). Basically, BW identity is built upon all those core features and changing them is amount to making a brand new game. Should Blizzard try it? Well, they can but I don't think Korea would get into it and neither will the remaining foreign audience. It might give some new players a chance to try a classic BUT they aren't actually trying the game that started esports in KR. They are playing another version that just has the same units, sounds without all the features that made it what it is. That also doesn't mean anything regarding retain-ment.
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The point of a game being an HD Remaster, and not a remake, is just to make an old game playable on new hardware, right? Since it is really hard to play old games on newer systems. And for people who play BW, that's what they want: to be able to play their game on new computers. But when you start changing gameplay elements, it stops being SCBW and starts being a different game (for better or worse). And then people who play BW still won't be able to play their game on new systems. There is already SC2 for people who want a more "modern" game.
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EPT
