|
|
On May 24 2016 05:34 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2016 04:49 Mojzii1 wrote:On May 24 2016 04:12 Jealous wrote:RoomOfMush On May 24 2016 01:53 Jealous wrote:On May 23 2016 21:57 B-royal wrote:On May 23 2016 05:58 Jealous wrote:On May 23 2016 04:42 B-royal wrote:
I don't think any type of implementation of race picking or arranged matches should be a high priority goal.
Since if your goal is to practice one match-up, I believe you should just play custom games.
I do agree however that when it comes to a game like brood war, allowing people to make detailed choices relating to somewhat trivial preferences such as the types of match-ups they want to play, is the way to go.
It should however be prespecified which match-ups you would like to play, no switching upon seeing someone's race to avoid situations where both players want to switch and can't reach a compromise.
If you want to ladder, you have to abide by its rules. I would hardly say that the types of match-ups you play are "trivial," as they are a core aspect of what this game is lol Depends on how you look at it. Since most people don't care about getting good, there's no real reason for them to let the difficulty of a match-up hinder their ability to get enjoyment from it. This is why I said it would be a trivial choice for them, they switch races as they switch their clothes every other day. Someone who tries to become the best player he can be, doesn't have this option since the absolute elite don't respect race picking as it wasn't allowed by KeSpa. That's actually the opposite of how I see it. Because no one is trying to become pro, why play match-ups you detest? It simply doesn't make sense to do something you don't like. And I would say that "most" people, or at least from the profiles I've seen on ICCup/Fish, have definite race/MU selections with only a few games played with other races on a whim I'm guessing. Almost no one switches races every day, and the people that do are often Random players. Either way, this does not make an argument that picking MU is trivial. By the way, KeSPA definitely did allow race-picking. See: July vs. Chojja, Savior vs. I forget who, etc. That is so much hypocrisy coming from a guy who also doesnt want custom hotkeys. On one topic you talk about principles when arguing your point and then on another topic you suddenly look at what is practical / comfortable. You can either be the hard core guy who says everybody should suffer the same awful BW and stop pussying around because of hotkeys but then you suddenly become the "lets just have fun guys" guy and want people to enjoy themselfs. Make up your mind. This is not hypocrotical because they are completely unrelated issues on both of which I essentially have the same stance: maintaining status quo. Race-picking has always been a part of Brood War, even in KeSPA unlike what this nonsensical Mojzil claims, as have the limitations on what is acceptable for keyboard inputs and macros. When I said "wouldn't be fun" it was an understatement that is still true. The fact of the matter is that for a new server to come out that is more limited in key areas than previous servers that it aims to improve on doesn't make sense. Not allowing keyboard input modifications would be maintaining status quo and eliminate any potential inequities caused by dishonest users as well as the slew of issues that permission would create, which as you mentioned I've already expounded on. Inversely, disallowing race-picking would be a step backwards from ICCup and Fish and would alienate many users who have been playing Brood War with status quo standards for years. @ Mojzil Your arguments have no substance and were rekt by 1 sentence from Drone so I don't have much more to say on this matter besides the fact that you already play race pickers on ICCup and Fish. EDIT: OK since you asked for one reason I will give you multiple: 1. As Drone said you would have no idea that you are playing a person who racepicks. 2. The person who match picks has NO advantage over a person plays that match up normally. In fact it may be more of a hurdle for them to be switching race. 3. Similarly, that person has NO advantage over another person who doesn't racepick. Tell me, what is the advantage of them playing TvZ/TvP/PvT vs a player who plays TvZ/TvP/TvT??? 4. KESPA DID allow racepicking, a point I made previously with examples which you conveniently ignored. 5. Race-picking has always been allowed on all servers and in most tournaments so you are effectively complaining about the way the game has been played for 18 years. .: Your argument has 0 substance. So lets make petition to implement this in moder games please ! For example in sc2. I would be like top 100 gm instead of top masters because instead of TvT i could play PvT as protoss. and instead of TvP i could play ZvP as zerg. You get the point? Skill ranking won't be accurate, and what's the point of ladder which is inacurate. well let's see how it goes but it don't think it's good thing. Let's wait and see EDIT: whether race picking will be a thing or not, shieldbattery is a step-forward if it get big enough community. But i just think that for Competetive ladder race picking will not be a good thing in my opinion. I can't reliably talk about SC2 or how well you'd do if you could play PvT instead of TvT but what I can speak confidently about is the fact that this has been an option in Brood War since the first competitive ladders/tournaments. Comparing it to SC2 is not really applicable because it's like comparing apples and oranges. Perhaps you could petition to have this feature added in other games ^^ I still don't see how you can argue that the ranking would be inaccurate. Firstly, all races are balanced enough overall (according to pro and ICCup statistics) that picking Protoss vs. Terran doesn't automatically hand you a W. You still have to be more proficient with PvT than your opponent is with TvP in order to win. Secondly, the skill ranking will be based on their ability in TvZ/TvP/PvT, whereas yours is based on TvZ/TvP/TvT. There is no numerical difference to make it inaccurate. I definitely agree that ShieldBattery is a step forward overall. I guess we can agree to disagree, but I think I still don't understand the facts behind your argument. Show nested quote +On May 24 2016 04:52 RoomOfMush wrote:On May 24 2016 04:12 Jealous wrote:RoomOfMush On May 24 2016 01:53 Jealous wrote:On May 23 2016 21:57 B-royal wrote:On May 23 2016 05:58 Jealous wrote:On May 23 2016 04:42 B-royal wrote:
I don't think any type of implementation of race picking or arranged matches should be a high priority goal.
Since if your goal is to practice one match-up, I believe you should just play custom games.
I do agree however that when it comes to a game like brood war, allowing people to make detailed choices relating to somewhat trivial preferences such as the types of match-ups they want to play, is the way to go.
It should however be prespecified which match-ups you would like to play, no switching upon seeing someone's race to avoid situations where both players want to switch and can't reach a compromise.
If you want to ladder, you have to abide by its rules. I would hardly say that the types of match-ups you play are "trivial," as they are a core aspect of what this game is lol Depends on how you look at it. Since most people don't care about getting good, there's no real reason for them to let the difficulty of a match-up hinder their ability to get enjoyment from it. This is why I said it would be a trivial choice for them, they switch races as they switch their clothes every other day. Someone who tries to become the best player he can be, doesn't have this option since the absolute elite don't respect race picking as it wasn't allowed by KeSpa. That's actually the opposite of how I see it. Because no one is trying to become pro, why play match-ups you detest? It simply doesn't make sense to do something you don't like. And I would say that "most" people, or at least from the profiles I've seen on ICCup/Fish, have definite race/MU selections with only a few games played with other races on a whim I'm guessing. Almost no one switches races every day, and the people that do are often Random players. Either way, this does not make an argument that picking MU is trivial. By the way, KeSPA definitely did allow race-picking. See: July vs. Chojja, Savior vs. I forget who, etc. That is so much hypocrisy coming from a guy who also doesnt want custom hotkeys. On one topic you talk about principles when arguing your point and then on another topic you suddenly look at what is practical / comfortable. You can either be the hard core guy who says everybody should suffer the same awful BW and stop pussying around because of hotkeys but then you suddenly become the "lets just have fun guys" guy and want people to enjoy themselfs. Make up your mind. This is not hypocrotical because they are completely unrelated issues on both of which I essentially have the same stance: maintaining status quo. Race-picking has always been a part of Brood War, even in KeSPA unlike what this nonsensical Mojzil claims, as have the limitations on what is acceptable for keyboard inputs and macros. When I said "wouldn't be fun" it was an understatement that is still true. The fact of the matter is that for a new server to come out that is more limited in key areas than previous servers that it aims to improve on doesn't make sense. Not allowing keyboard input modifications would be maintaining status quo and eliminate any potential inequities caused by dishonest users as well as the slew of issues that permission would create, which as you mentioned I've already expounded on. Inversely, disallowing race-picking would be a step backwards from ICCup and Fish and would alienate many users who have been playing Brood War with status quo standards for years. You can not say something is "a step backwards" or "a step forwards" without defining what forward and backward is. So what is forward to you? What is a limit and what is a feature? What is a feature and what is a challenge? Do you pick them at random? Do you pick them at your own pleasure and force them upon people? You have to pick a basic principle to argue your point. A central idea. Otherwise what you say is just arbitrary words and your opinion is as valid (and just as unimportant) as what a random number generator would spew out. If you're going to be pedantic about it, I will clarify that I (in my opinion somewhat obviously) meant that "going backwards" would be removing existing options. Removing a player's ability to pick the match-ups he wants would be "going backwards." In fact it would be effectively removing something that has been a part of the game since Day 1, as I mentioned above @Mojzil. It would be removing something that has been allowed by the strictest and most professional organization Brood War has ever known (KeSPA) as well as the vast majority of large tournaments in the foreign scene. It simply doesn't make sense to "move backwards" in this sense. "Moving forward" in this case would be creating new options, which should be reviewed critically. Technically, allowing keyboard macros and etc. would be "moving forward" as it is an addition to the existing gaming experience, but it would also cause many direct and tangential issues and therefore I don't think it would be a positive addition, but a negative one. I pick these based on the established status quo, plain and simple. The Brood War we have now and the competitive standards we have cultivated and grown to accept over the past 18 years should not be violated, in my opinion. That is the basic principle, the central idea. It is only your basic principle and and central idea that I cannot distinguish. In this present conversation so far, it seems to be "post with the aims of debasing Jealous's stance by attacking semantics and making generalized parallels to a discussion from days ago without a stance of my own."
So from what you say I take it your idea is to simply do everything exactly like what Kespa did. You dont want to take anything away from that as that would be "a step backwards" as you describe it. But you also dont want to add anything to that because you fear it would cause issues.
So everything you say. Every post you make can be shortened and simplified into: Make everything like Kespa does it.
Is that it? Is that your opionion?
Because if its not there is no arguing. You can not argue because the outcome is fixed. All you can do is state your opinion and all we can do is decide to agree or disagree. There is no moving the goalposts.
I hope you see that what I say is not just random attacks against you. I am trying to establish a basis for constructive discussion.
The general idea of constructive discussions is the following:
You define your goals; the central idea of discussion. Lets call it (A).
Then you give a certain feature which should be included in the application, lets call it (B).
We can then argue that the feature (B) might result in the situation (C).
If we look at (C) in view of (A) we might find out that it is either in compliance with (A) or it might go against it.
At this point we can make a decision whether (B) is a good idea or not. We do this based on arguments constructed with logic. There are no personal attacks, there are no circles and there is no wasting time.
It really turns out though that defining (A) might sometimes be the most difficult part of this process.
|
Maybe it would be a nice feature to allow people to specify a preferred matchup in matchmaking. So let's say you have a tournament match coming up where you will have to play ZvZ and the matchmaking will then prefer to face you up against another Zerg.
As with anything matchmaking related, this would of course work the better the more people actually play on the server...
Problem is of course to prevent people from laddering up by only (or at least overwhelmingly prevalently) playing one MU. So some kind of diminished return or long-term equalization should also be in place with it.
|
Hmm, so I decided to think a little bit more in depth about this issue.
There's two types of implementation in my opinion:
1. complete control to the user: race picking on a whim
This one is out of the question for me as it can give an advantage to one player. You know your opponent's weakest match up is ZvZ, let's switch from terran to zerg "during the loading screen".
2. specifying preferred match-ups.
This is is acceptable for me, especially in the light of giving a choice to users that are preferring to play a 20 year old game. There's no reason for us to act like elitists and try to drive away people on something that is quite "trivial" (I said it again Jealous :D).
Accepting this system entails a sort of slippery slope situation.
How many match-ups should one person play? (Why are we even forcing people to play 3 match-ups?)
What if someone doesn't want to play versus a random player?
|
On May 24 2016 06:14 B-royal wrote:
Hmm, so I decided to think a little bit more in depth about this issue.
There's two types of implementation in my opinion:
1. complete control to the user: race picking on a whim
This one is out of the question for me as it can give an advantage to one player. You know your opponent's weakest match up is ZvZ, let's switch from terran to zerg "during the loading screen".
rather than "out of the question", its more of a moot point. with matchmaking system you shouldn't be able to do see who your opponent is until the game is loaded
On May 24 2016 06:14 B-royal wrote:
Accepting this system entails a sort of slippery slope situation.
How many match-ups should one person play? (Why are we even forcing people to play 3 match-ups?)
What if someone doesn't want to play versus a random player?
it really depends on how the owners of this server want their ladder to be. (yet to see their official stance/expectations on this). probably they are not really gonna be fine with just having someone who only plays, say TvP climb all the way to the top of the ladder.
however you have to understand with time that the playerbase will eventually settle towards a small number, past the initial spurt of players that occurs from opening of a new server. If at your particular timezone the vast majority of the remaining players are say Protoss and you are zerg and you climb up the ladder primarily on the back of ZvP, are you doing something wrong then? and all those protoss will be playing each other...are the server admins willing to sacrifice server activity for the "purist" stance of "man up, no only playing particular matchups!" then?
random players should not be an issue. because people who actually dare to play random on ladder are 1) weak/cheesy players anyway, since they have to account and prepare for 9 different matchups 2) pros doing it for kicks, so what ever race he choose is a moot point. also many random players (if any) will most likely tell you their race at the start of the game if you ask nicely.
|
Race picking would allow you to practice race specific matchups without having to have a practice partner. It would increase activity on the server which is a good thing.
|
Matchup practice is a good thing to have, but it isn't necessarily true that allowing matchup picking would increase server activity. It's quite possible that it would cause some fragmentation of the community, making it more difficult to find games (and low game-finding rates are what can really drive people away from a server: why play if you can't play?). Sometimes, additional features aren't a great thing, no matter how nice they can seem in our heads. Tossing too much in can result in a jumbled mess instead of a strong, cohesive whole.
I don't claim to know whether this is one or the other for sure, and probably no one should. But we should definitely focus on core features of the server before we start in on auxiliary ones, because a working and imperfect server is better than a perfect and dead one.
|
On May 24 2016 13:24 Acritter wrote:
Matchup practice is a good thing to have, but it isn't necessarily true that allowing matchup picking would increase server activity. It's quite possible that it would cause some fragmentation of the community, making it more difficult to find games (and low game-finding rates are what can really drive people away from a server: why play if you can't play?).
nah
i rather think that after experiencing the initial wow of matchmaking, people who race pick or only prefer to play certain matchups (theres definitely a significant amount of them) may eventually stay at iccup/fish where the lobby system gives the freedom to, thus fragmenting the community.
also people seem to forget that Fish server is still the premier server to find and play against the current best BW players, unless you can attract a significant amount of those players to shield battery, SB will still play second fiddle to Fish in terms of competitive ladder, race picking or not..
|
Iccup was always second to fish too wasn't it?
Koreans have their server. Foreigners have theirs.
|
On May 24 2016 05:47 RoomOfMush wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2016 05:34 Jealous wrote:On May 24 2016 04:49 Mojzii1 wrote:On May 24 2016 04:12 Jealous wrote:RoomOfMush On May 24 2016 01:53 Jealous wrote:On May 23 2016 21:57 B-royal wrote:On May 23 2016 05:58 Jealous wrote:On May 23 2016 04:42 B-royal wrote:
I don't think any type of implementation of race picking or arranged matches should be a high priority goal.
Since if your goal is to practice one match-up, I believe you should just play custom games.
I do agree however that when it comes to a game like brood war, allowing people to make detailed choices relating to somewhat trivial preferences such as the types of match-ups they want to play, is the way to go.
It should however be prespecified which match-ups you would like to play, no switching upon seeing someone's race to avoid situations where both players want to switch and can't reach a compromise.
If you want to ladder, you have to abide by its rules. I would hardly say that the types of match-ups you play are "trivial," as they are a core aspect of what this game is lol Depends on how you look at it. Since most people don't care about getting good, there's no real reason for them to let the difficulty of a match-up hinder their ability to get enjoyment from it. This is why I said it would be a trivial choice for them, they switch races as they switch their clothes every other day. Someone who tries to become the best player he can be, doesn't have this option since the absolute elite don't respect race picking as it wasn't allowed by KeSpa. That's actually the opposite of how I see it. Because no one is trying to become pro, why play match-ups you detest? It simply doesn't make sense to do something you don't like. And I would say that "most" people, or at least from the profiles I've seen on ICCup/Fish, have definite race/MU selections with only a few games played with other races on a whim I'm guessing. Almost no one switches races every day, and the people that do are often Random players. Either way, this does not make an argument that picking MU is trivial. By the way, KeSPA definitely did allow race-picking. See: July vs. Chojja, Savior vs. I forget who, etc. That is so much hypocrisy coming from a guy who also doesnt want custom hotkeys. On one topic you talk about principles when arguing your point and then on another topic you suddenly look at what is practical / comfortable. You can either be the hard core guy who says everybody should suffer the same awful BW and stop pussying around because of hotkeys but then you suddenly become the "lets just have fun guys" guy and want people to enjoy themselfs. Make up your mind. This is not hypocrotical because they are completely unrelated issues on both of which I essentially have the same stance: maintaining status quo. Race-picking has always been a part of Brood War, even in KeSPA unlike what this nonsensical Mojzil claims, as have the limitations on what is acceptable for keyboard inputs and macros. When I said "wouldn't be fun" it was an understatement that is still true. The fact of the matter is that for a new server to come out that is more limited in key areas than previous servers that it aims to improve on doesn't make sense. Not allowing keyboard input modifications would be maintaining status quo and eliminate any potential inequities caused by dishonest users as well as the slew of issues that permission would create, which as you mentioned I've already expounded on. Inversely, disallowing race-picking would be a step backwards from ICCup and Fish and would alienate many users who have been playing Brood War with status quo standards for years. @ Mojzil Your arguments have no substance and were rekt by 1 sentence from Drone so I don't have much more to say on this matter besides the fact that you already play race pickers on ICCup and Fish. EDIT: OK since you asked for one reason I will give you multiple: 1. As Drone said you would have no idea that you are playing a person who racepicks. 2. The person who match picks has NO advantage over a person plays that match up normally. In fact it may be more of a hurdle for them to be switching race. 3. Similarly, that person has NO advantage over another person who doesn't racepick. Tell me, what is the advantage of them playing TvZ/TvP/PvT vs a player who plays TvZ/TvP/TvT??? 4. KESPA DID allow racepicking, a point I made previously with examples which you conveniently ignored. 5. Race-picking has always been allowed on all servers and in most tournaments so you are effectively complaining about the way the game has been played for 18 years. .: Your argument has 0 substance. So lets make petition to implement this in moder games please ! For example in sc2. I would be like top 100 gm instead of top masters because instead of TvT i could play PvT as protoss. and instead of TvP i could play ZvP as zerg. You get the point? Skill ranking won't be accurate, and what's the point of ladder which is inacurate. well let's see how it goes but it don't think it's good thing. Let's wait and see EDIT: whether race picking will be a thing or not, shieldbattery is a step-forward if it get big enough community. But i just think that for Competetive ladder race picking will not be a good thing in my opinion. I can't reliably talk about SC2 or how well you'd do if you could play PvT instead of TvT but what I can speak confidently about is the fact that this has been an option in Brood War since the first competitive ladders/tournaments. Comparing it to SC2 is not really applicable because it's like comparing apples and oranges. Perhaps you could petition to have this feature added in other games ^^ I still don't see how you can argue that the ranking would be inaccurate. Firstly, all races are balanced enough overall (according to pro and ICCup statistics) that picking Protoss vs. Terran doesn't automatically hand you a W. You still have to be more proficient with PvT than your opponent is with TvP in order to win. Secondly, the skill ranking will be based on their ability in TvZ/TvP/PvT, whereas yours is based on TvZ/TvP/TvT. There is no numerical difference to make it inaccurate. I definitely agree that ShieldBattery is a step forward overall. I guess we can agree to disagree, but I think I still don't understand the facts behind your argument. On May 24 2016 04:52 RoomOfMush wrote:On May 24 2016 04:12 Jealous wrote:RoomOfMush On May 24 2016 01:53 Jealous wrote:On May 23 2016 21:57 B-royal wrote:On May 23 2016 05:58 Jealous wrote:On May 23 2016 04:42 B-royal wrote:
I don't think any type of implementation of race picking or arranged matches should be a high priority goal.
Since if your goal is to practice one match-up, I believe you should just play custom games.
I do agree however that when it comes to a game like brood war, allowing people to make detailed choices relating to somewhat trivial preferences such as the types of match-ups they want to play, is the way to go.
It should however be prespecified which match-ups you would like to play, no switching upon seeing someone's race to avoid situations where both players want to switch and can't reach a compromise.
If you want to ladder, you have to abide by its rules. I would hardly say that the types of match-ups you play are "trivial," as they are a core aspect of what this game is lol Depends on how you look at it. Since most people don't care about getting good, there's no real reason for them to let the difficulty of a match-up hinder their ability to get enjoyment from it. This is why I said it would be a trivial choice for them, they switch races as they switch their clothes every other day. Someone who tries to become the best player he can be, doesn't have this option since the absolute elite don't respect race picking as it wasn't allowed by KeSpa. That's actually the opposite of how I see it. Because no one is trying to become pro, why play match-ups you detest? It simply doesn't make sense to do something you don't like. And I would say that "most" people, or at least from the profiles I've seen on ICCup/Fish, have definite race/MU selections with only a few games played with other races on a whim I'm guessing. Almost no one switches races every day, and the people that do are often Random players. Either way, this does not make an argument that picking MU is trivial. By the way, KeSPA definitely did allow race-picking. See: July vs. Chojja, Savior vs. I forget who, etc. That is so much hypocrisy coming from a guy who also doesnt want custom hotkeys. On one topic you talk about principles when arguing your point and then on another topic you suddenly look at what is practical / comfortable. You can either be the hard core guy who says everybody should suffer the same awful BW and stop pussying around because of hotkeys but then you suddenly become the "lets just have fun guys" guy and want people to enjoy themselfs. Make up your mind. This is not hypocrotical because they are completely unrelated issues on both of which I essentially have the same stance: maintaining status quo. Race-picking has always been a part of Brood War, even in KeSPA unlike what this nonsensical Mojzil claims, as have the limitations on what is acceptable for keyboard inputs and macros. When I said "wouldn't be fun" it was an understatement that is still true. The fact of the matter is that for a new server to come out that is more limited in key areas than previous servers that it aims to improve on doesn't make sense. Not allowing keyboard input modifications would be maintaining status quo and eliminate any potential inequities caused by dishonest users as well as the slew of issues that permission would create, which as you mentioned I've already expounded on. Inversely, disallowing race-picking would be a step backwards from ICCup and Fish and would alienate many users who have been playing Brood War with status quo standards for years. You can not say something is "a step backwards" or "a step forwards" without defining what forward and backward is. So what is forward to you? What is a limit and what is a feature? What is a feature and what is a challenge? Do you pick them at random? Do you pick them at your own pleasure and force them upon people? You have to pick a basic principle to argue your point. A central idea. Otherwise what you say is just arbitrary words and your opinion is as valid (and just as unimportant) as what a random number generator would spew out. If you're going to be pedantic about it, I will clarify that I (in my opinion somewhat obviously) meant that "going backwards" would be removing existing options. Removing a player's ability to pick the match-ups he wants would be "going backwards." In fact it would be effectively removing something that has been a part of the game since Day 1, as I mentioned above @Mojzil. It would be removing something that has been allowed by the strictest and most professional organization Brood War has ever known (KeSPA) as well as the vast majority of large tournaments in the foreign scene. It simply doesn't make sense to "move backwards" in this sense. "Moving forward" in this case would be creating new options, which should be reviewed critically. Technically, allowing keyboard macros and etc. would be "moving forward" as it is an addition to the existing gaming experience, but it would also cause many direct and tangential issues and therefore I don't think it would be a positive addition, but a negative one. I pick these based on the established status quo, plain and simple. The Brood War we have now and the competitive standards we have cultivated and grown to accept over the past 18 years should not be violated, in my opinion. That is the basic principle, the central idea. It is only your basic principle and and central idea that I cannot distinguish. In this present conversation so far, it seems to be "post with the aims of debasing Jealous's stance by attacking semantics and making generalized parallels to a discussion from days ago without a stance of my own." So from what you say I take it your idea is to simply do everything exactly like what Kespa did. You dont want to take anything away from that as that would be "a step backwards" as you describe it. But you also dont want to add anything to that because you fear it would cause issues. So everything you say. Every post you make can be shortened and simplified into: Make everything like Kespa does it. Is that it? Is that your opionion? Because if its not there is no arguing. You can not argue because the outcome is fixed. All you can do is state your opinion and all we can do is decide to agree or disagree. There is no moving the goalposts. I hope you see that what I say is not just random attacks against you. I am trying to establish a basis for constructive discussion. The general idea of constructive discussions is the following: You define your goals; the central idea of discussion. Lets call it (A). Then you give a certain feature which should be included in the application, lets call it (B). We can then argue that the feature (B) might result in the situation (C). If we look at (C) in view of (A) we might find out that it is either in compliance with (A) or it might go against it. At this point we can make a decision whether (B) is a good idea or not. We do this based on arguments constructed with logic. There are no personal attacks, there are no circles and there is no wasting time. It really turns out though that defining (A) might sometimes be the most difficult part of this process.
That is a false generalization. I don't want everything to be exactly like what KeSPA did, although the things I would like to avoid are the excessive overregulation like "if you type anything but pp and gg you lose" type shit, or having to announce your race 2 weeks before a match (in this case, you have a limited opportunity to switch your MU preference), etc. It is true that I don't want anything that is more limited than KeSPA's rules ("step backwards"). However, it is not true that I don't want to add anything. I like the addition of auto match-making. I like the compatibility, resolution options, and window flexibility. These are "steps forward" I support.
So no, that is not my opinion. (A) is very simple for me:
Do not change anything about the game or a player's options in it, be it absolute screen size, hotkeys, bug fixes, etc. This is my stance universally, for private projects and Blizzard's own proposed patch (I was involved in a discussion elsewhere that dealt with people thinking "removing bugs" would = fixing Dragoon/Goliath pathing, which I am against). This means that removing a player's option to race-pick would be in violation of this.
This is the main point. My tangential point is:
I support any change that allows more people to play the game, such as OS compatibility, as long as it does not violate (A). Self-assigned hotkeys are in violation of (A).
I didn't take it as a personal attack, you didn't aim to offend. I just don't understand what logical discourse could follow this line of discussion as the entirety of your posts are deconstructing mine and constructing nothing of your own.
|
On May 24 2016 23:40 Psyonic_Reaver wrote:
Iccup was always second to fish too wasn't it?
Koreans have their server. Foreigners have theirs.
I guess so. Though, I want to see how auto match making works. By the way, you forgot about chinese server. Definitely more users than iccup. Lol
|
So.... Can I play random? Is random still going to be an option?
|
Random was an option in the Sayle/GTR previews.
|
On May 25 2016 01:07 LaStScan wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2016 23:40 Psyonic_Reaver wrote:
Iccup was always second to fish too wasn't it?
Koreans have their server. Foreigners have theirs. I guess so. Though, I want to see how auto match making works. By the way, you forgot about chinese server. Definitely more users than iccup. Lol
well ofc. Korea->China->Foreigners in terms of active players and thus, how full our servers are.
|
Wouldn't someone playing random be a bigger concern than someone racepicking?
Assuming it is STILL an option.
|
How about not allowing random? Can't the players make a coin-toss themselve to decide before the game? And can you give a date for the next invite wave?
|
Random is a core multiplayer feature of the game...
why are people getting so worked up over having to play vs randoms?
It all boils down to having the proper strats memorized for vs random and hope you don't get unlucky with last scouting on a 4 player map but even then you would be adjusting and utilizing the proper strat vs any opening cheese that most randoms do regardless.
I dunno. I don't see the hufflepuff over random but I see valid points in the race picking options being implemented after launch of the server whenever the coders get around to it.
For a basic launch. Terran. Protoss. Zerg. Random. Let's get on with it.
|
On May 25 2016 01:07 LaStScan wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2016 23:40 Psyonic_Reaver wrote:
Iccup was always second to fish too wasn't it?
Koreans have their server. Foreigners have theirs. I guess so. Though, I want to see how auto match making works. By the way, you forgot about chinese server. Definitely more users than iccup. Lol
for 2v2/3v3/UMS, yes. for 1v1 its about the same these days.
|
why are people getting so worked up over having to play vs randoms?
because it is cancer. You don't know the race and you don't know the spwan. The unknown variables mutliples themselve and the game is not designed and balance around that. I can revert the question:
why are people getting so worked up over having to play random?
|
I think preselecting what you want to play vs. each race and random is the best solution, but I'd rather play it sooner than waiting for an implementation of that, so if it's sticking to one race at the beginning, that's ok.
One thing that I would like to be added down the road would be rewards for underused races to counteract the "everybody plays P" issue. Maybe points that result in perks like prioritized handling in the queue or the ability to generally decline opponents below a certain ping.
|
I recon that if you have a ladder, the ladder will be most fun and competetive if races are locked after match search.
I feel like a racepicking mechaninc would be good to have for a "casual" playstyle.
So two modes of play should be created when auto matchmaking. The only downside would be the potential for "not enough" players on either mode 
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
