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On May 22 2012 02:00 Lordanubis wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2012 01:33 fabiano wrote:On May 22 2012 00:20 therockmanxx wrote:
GSL players are progammers?
I mean Do they have a license? I am very uninformed, don't quote me on this, but in this huge SC2 horrible mess I don't think they have any sort of organization like KeSPA which requires progaming licenses. Really not sure how they expect to get people to keep following them next season if they're effectively advertising "KeSPA adventures in Bronze League".
They're all pretty much Korean Masters with a couple of GM's at this point after around 2 months or less practice versus players who've got experience from the beta onwards. The game knowledge might not be there yet but the raw mechanics, multitask, reaction times and map awareness promise great things to come.
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On May 21 2012 21:02 inbox24 wrote:
I wonder how long it would take to see a decent set of grudge matches; Kespa players versus GOM players. That would be epic to see and something worth paying to watch rather than single battle GOM SC2 games. They could possibly even do both SC2 and BW in separate sets to determine the better all round players.
VERY interesting concept ! Now that I think about it, what better way to promote korean interest in SC2? Actually thats probably the way things are going to turn out once the BW pros have enough time to adjust fully to SC2.
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On May 22 2012 08:33 Scarecrow wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2012 02:00 Lordanubis wrote:On May 22 2012 01:33 fabiano wrote:On May 22 2012 00:20 therockmanxx wrote:
GSL players are progammers?
I mean Do they have a license? I am very uninformed, don't quote me on this, but in this huge SC2 horrible mess I don't think they have any sort of organization like KeSPA which requires progaming licenses. Really not sure how they expect to get people to keep following them next season if they're effectively advertising "KeSPA adventures in Bronze League". They're all pretty much Korean Masters with a couple of GM's at this point after around 2 months or less practice versus players who've got experience from the beta onwards. The game knowledge might not be there yet but the raw mechanics, multitask, reaction times and map awareness promise great things to come.
The Blizzard ladder isn't ICCUP. High rankings are fairly meaningless. Effort looked decent in SC2, and Motive was legit good, but no one else impressed me. Even their mechanics weren't that impressive (compare Effort's creep spread against Flash to what DRG does when he goes unpressured. It's a fairly notable difference).
I mean, I'm sure playing 10 hours a day in the toughest training conditions on earth will have an effect, but let's stop acting like they're good at SC2 currently.
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On May 22 2012 21:19 Ribbon wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2012 08:33 Scarecrow wrote:On May 22 2012 02:00 Lordanubis wrote:On May 22 2012 01:33 fabiano wrote:On May 22 2012 00:20 therockmanxx wrote:
GSL players are progammers?
I mean Do they have a license? I am very uninformed, don't quote me on this, but in this huge SC2 horrible mess I don't think they have any sort of organization like KeSPA which requires progaming licenses. Really not sure how they expect to get people to keep following them next season if they're effectively advertising "KeSPA adventures in Bronze League". They're all pretty much Korean Masters with a couple of GM's at this point after around 2 months or less practice versus players who've got experience from the beta onwards. The game knowledge might not be there yet but the raw mechanics, multitask, reaction times and map awareness promise great things to come. The Blizzard ladder isn't ICCUP. High rankings are fairly meaningless. Effort looked decent in SC2, and Motive was legit good, but no one else impressed me. Even their mechanics weren't that impressive (compare Effort's creep spread against Flash to what DRG does when he goes unpressured. It's a fairly notable difference). I mean, I'm sure playing 10 hours a day in the toughest training conditions on earth will have an effect, but let's stop acting like they're good at SC2 currently.
I think Jangbi looked really crisp too even if his opponent sucked ass that game on Cloud Kingdom. Anyway, I think effort will have mad creep soon too. Have in mind that DRG has been spreading creep for like 2 years and effort have done it for a month. It's probably the most difficult thing to train into your brain and get a good flow for it coming from BW zerg. Injects are a bit easier since you trade going back to your bases for sending drones and hotkey units to injecting. ^^
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On May 22 2012 21:37 Gosi wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2012 21:19 Ribbon wrote:On May 22 2012 08:33 Scarecrow wrote:On May 22 2012 02:00 Lordanubis wrote:On May 22 2012 01:33 fabiano wrote:On May 22 2012 00:20 therockmanxx wrote:
GSL players are progammers?
I mean Do they have a license? I am very uninformed, don't quote me on this, but in this huge SC2 horrible mess I don't think they have any sort of organization like KeSPA which requires progaming licenses. Really not sure how they expect to get people to keep following them next season if they're effectively advertising "KeSPA adventures in Bronze League". They're all pretty much Korean Masters with a couple of GM's at this point after around 2 months or less practice versus players who've got experience from the beta onwards. The game knowledge might not be there yet but the raw mechanics, multitask, reaction times and map awareness promise great things to come. The Blizzard ladder isn't ICCUP. High rankings are fairly meaningless. Effort looked decent in SC2, and Motive was legit good, but no one else impressed me. Even their mechanics weren't that impressive (compare Effort's creep spread against Flash to what DRG does when he goes unpressured. It's a fairly notable difference). I mean, I'm sure playing 10 hours a day in the toughest training conditions on earth will have an effect, but let's stop acting like they're good at SC2 currently. I think Jangbi looked really crisp too even if his opponent sucked ass that game on Cloud Kingdom. Anyway, I think effort will have mad creep soon too. Have in mind that DRG has been spreading creep for like 2 years and effort have done it for a month. It's probably the most difficult thing to train into your brain and get a good flow for it coming from BW zerg. Injects are a bit easier since you trade going back to your bases for sending drones and hotkey units to injecting. ^^
Oh, I'm sure. Creep spread is just the most visible mechanically difficult thing in SC2, so I harp on it a lot. I'm sure most of the BW players will be great at SC2 by the end of the season, with maybe one or two just not getting it and washing out. I'm just eyerolling at the "Flash is already in MASTER LEAGUE" hype. I mean, I couldn't do it, but the difference between Master League and pros is pretty huge. Sase played a Master league kid in an open tournament, and was able to build literally 17 manner nexuses to wall the opponent in his two bases and it was a bit controversial because people said Sase was being a bully.
BW pros will almost certainly be better than most current SC2 pros before too long, but they're not nearly at that level now, for the most part (Motive might be, he just outclassed BBYong and an impressive one-sided beatdown)
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On May 22 2012 22:17 Ribbon wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2012 21:37 Gosi wrote:On May 22 2012 21:19 Ribbon wrote:On May 22 2012 08:33 Scarecrow wrote:On May 22 2012 02:00 Lordanubis wrote:On May 22 2012 01:33 fabiano wrote:On May 22 2012 00:20 therockmanxx wrote:
GSL players are progammers?
I mean Do they have a license? I am very uninformed, don't quote me on this, but in this huge SC2 horrible mess I don't think they have any sort of organization like KeSPA which requires progaming licenses. Really not sure how they expect to get people to keep following them next season if they're effectively advertising "KeSPA adventures in Bronze League". They're all pretty much Korean Masters with a couple of GM's at this point after around 2 months or less practice versus players who've got experience from the beta onwards. The game knowledge might not be there yet but the raw mechanics, multitask, reaction times and map awareness promise great things to come. The Blizzard ladder isn't ICCUP. High rankings are fairly meaningless. Effort looked decent in SC2, and Motive was legit good, but no one else impressed me. Even their mechanics weren't that impressive (compare Effort's creep spread against Flash to what DRG does when he goes unpressured. It's a fairly notable difference). I mean, I'm sure playing 10 hours a day in the toughest training conditions on earth will have an effect, but let's stop acting like they're good at SC2 currently. I think Jangbi looked really crisp too even if his opponent sucked ass that game on Cloud Kingdom. Anyway, I think effort will have mad creep soon too. Have in mind that DRG has been spreading creep for like 2 years and effort have done it for a month. It's probably the most difficult thing to train into your brain and get a good flow for it coming from BW zerg. Injects are a bit easier since you trade going back to your bases for sending drones and hotkey units to injecting. ^^ Oh, I'm sure. Creep spread is just the most visible mechanically difficult thing in SC2, so I harp on it a lot. I'm sure most of the BW players will be great at SC2 by the end of the season, with maybe one or two just not getting it and washing out. I'm just eyerolling at the "Flash is already in MASTER LEAGUE" hype. I mean, I couldn't do it, but the difference between Master League and pros is pretty huge. Sase played a Master league kid in an open tournament, and was able to build literally 17 manner nexuses to wall the opponent in his two bases and it was a bit controversial because people said Sase was being a bully. BW pros will almost certainly be better than most current SC2 pros before too long, but they're not nearly at that level now, for the most part (Motive might be, he just outclassed BBYong and an impressive one-sided beatdown)
Enlighten me. Why is creep spread hard? I can see how it is marginally harder than manually sending drones to mine in BW (because you have the option to inject or spread right?) Surely that can't be all SC2 has to offer. No idle workers in BW is impressive to me but i don't get excited over it. Why do SC2 fans wet themselves over creep spread?
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On May 22 2012 22:51 ShadeR wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2012 22:17 Ribbon wrote:On May 22 2012 21:37 Gosi wrote:On May 22 2012 21:19 Ribbon wrote:On May 22 2012 08:33 Scarecrow wrote:On May 22 2012 02:00 Lordanubis wrote:On May 22 2012 01:33 fabiano wrote:On May 22 2012 00:20 therockmanxx wrote:
GSL players are progammers?
I mean Do they have a license? I am very uninformed, don't quote me on this, but in this huge SC2 horrible mess I don't think they have any sort of organization like KeSPA which requires progaming licenses. Really not sure how they expect to get people to keep following them next season if they're effectively advertising "KeSPA adventures in Bronze League". They're all pretty much Korean Masters with a couple of GM's at this point after around 2 months or less practice versus players who've got experience from the beta onwards. The game knowledge might not be there yet but the raw mechanics, multitask, reaction times and map awareness promise great things to come. The Blizzard ladder isn't ICCUP. High rankings are fairly meaningless. Effort looked decent in SC2, and Motive was legit good, but no one else impressed me. Even their mechanics weren't that impressive (compare Effort's creep spread against Flash to what DRG does when he goes unpressured. It's a fairly notable difference). I mean, I'm sure playing 10 hours a day in the toughest training conditions on earth will have an effect, but let's stop acting like they're good at SC2 currently. I think Jangbi looked really crisp too even if his opponent sucked ass that game on Cloud Kingdom. Anyway, I think effort will have mad creep soon too. Have in mind that DRG has been spreading creep for like 2 years and effort have done it for a month. It's probably the most difficult thing to train into your brain and get a good flow for it coming from BW zerg. Injects are a bit easier since you trade going back to your bases for sending drones and hotkey units to injecting. ^^ Oh, I'm sure. Creep spread is just the most visible mechanically difficult thing in SC2, so I harp on it a lot. I'm sure most of the BW players will be great at SC2 by the end of the season, with maybe one or two just not getting it and washing out. I'm just eyerolling at the "Flash is already in MASTER LEAGUE" hype. I mean, I couldn't do it, but the difference between Master League and pros is pretty huge. Sase played a Master league kid in an open tournament, and was able to build literally 17 manner nexuses to wall the opponent in his two bases and it was a bit controversial because people said Sase was being a bully. BW pros will almost certainly be better than most current SC2 pros before too long, but they're not nearly at that level now, for the most part (Motive might be, he just outclassed BBYong and an impressive one-sided beatdown) Enlighten me. Why is creep spread hard? I can see how it is marginally harder than manually sending drones to mine in BW (because you have the option to inject or spread right?) Surely that can't be all SC2 has to offer. No idle workers in BW is impressive to me but i don't get excited over it. Why do SC2 fans wet themselves over creep spread?
It's not THAT hard, but it's one of the few ways in SC2 to mechanically differentiate yourself from other players, and it's very visible.
The reason it's hard is because the creep tumors should be all over the map, and you can't use hotkeys at all (well, you could, but a creep tumor that makes a new one dies, and the hotkey stays on the old tumor, so it's more trouble than it's worth). Thus, every 15-20 seconds, you have to go to all the edges of your creep (and good zergs will be pushing creep down every attack lane at once), grab the tumors, and click a bunch to have them all make new tumors. It's like if you had a couple of factories out randomly in the middle of the map in BW, far away from one another, and you were macroing out of them without hotkeys. Not super super hard, but hard enough that even pros (JULY) can fail at it when there's a whole game going on.
The other reason is simply that Terran and Protoss try to kill off the creep, so having good spread against a good opponent is impressive for that reason as well. It's not THAT crazy, but it's a visible representation of mechanical prowess, and SC2 fans are an excitable bunch.
Creep spread is also, IMO, the best mechanic in SC2, because it's hard, but not for the sake of being hard like no automine or the original stupid-ass gas mechanic would have been. SC2 needs more things like it.
Injects and Chrono Boosts can be kinda hard too, just because you need to keep coming back to your base, but it's not as obvious if a guy's got 50+ energy on all his nexuses as it is if there's no purple on the map.
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Ah c'mon, these macro mechanics they put on SC2 are just dumb to no end, and I believe they broken other parts of the game.
imo they just made harass even less important. If losing 3, 4 drones after a harass in BW was a big deal, losing 8-9 in SC2 has less impact once you get your inject larvae running.
Obviously the zerg macro mechanic is way harder than P and T, but it doesn't mean it is good for the game.
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Never mind creep spread is good.
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On May 22 2012 22:51 ShadeR wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2012 22:17 Ribbon wrote:On May 22 2012 21:37 Gosi wrote:On May 22 2012 21:19 Ribbon wrote:On May 22 2012 08:33 Scarecrow wrote:On May 22 2012 02:00 Lordanubis wrote:On May 22 2012 01:33 fabiano wrote:On May 22 2012 00:20 therockmanxx wrote:
GSL players are progammers?
I mean Do they have a license? I am very uninformed, don't quote me on this, but in this huge SC2 horrible mess I don't think they have any sort of organization like KeSPA which requires progaming licenses. Really not sure how they expect to get people to keep following them next season if they're effectively advertising "KeSPA adventures in Bronze League". They're all pretty much Korean Masters with a couple of GM's at this point after around 2 months or less practice versus players who've got experience from the beta onwards. The game knowledge might not be there yet but the raw mechanics, multitask, reaction times and map awareness promise great things to come. The Blizzard ladder isn't ICCUP. High rankings are fairly meaningless. Effort looked decent in SC2, and Motive was legit good, but no one else impressed me. Even their mechanics weren't that impressive (compare Effort's creep spread against Flash to what DRG does when he goes unpressured. It's a fairly notable difference). I mean, I'm sure playing 10 hours a day in the toughest training conditions on earth will have an effect, but let's stop acting like they're good at SC2 currently. I think Jangbi looked really crisp too even if his opponent sucked ass that game on Cloud Kingdom. Anyway, I think effort will have mad creep soon too. Have in mind that DRG has been spreading creep for like 2 years and effort have done it for a month. It's probably the most difficult thing to train into your brain and get a good flow for it coming from BW zerg. Injects are a bit easier since you trade going back to your bases for sending drones and hotkey units to injecting. ^^ Oh, I'm sure. Creep spread is just the most visible mechanically difficult thing in SC2, so I harp on it a lot. I'm sure most of the BW players will be great at SC2 by the end of the season, with maybe one or two just not getting it and washing out. I'm just eyerolling at the "Flash is already in MASTER LEAGUE" hype. I mean, I couldn't do it, but the difference between Master League and pros is pretty huge. Sase played a Master league kid in an open tournament, and was able to build literally 17 manner nexuses to wall the opponent in his two bases and it was a bit controversial because people said Sase was being a bully. BW pros will almost certainly be better than most current SC2 pros before too long, but they're not nearly at that level now, for the most part (Motive might be, he just outclassed BBYong and an impressive one-sided beatdown) Enlighten me. Why is creep spread hard? I can see how it is marginally harder than manually sending drones to mine in BW (because you have the option to inject or spread right?) Surely that can't be all SC2 has to offer. No idle workers in BW is impressive to me but i don't get excited over it. Why do SC2 fans wet themselves over creep spread?
For the first tumour you are right it is the option to spread or inject. But when the first tumours are made, then you have to use your queens at the hatchery to inject in time (for perfect macro you only have a timing window of 0.5 seconds to inject, every delay longer than that will hurt your macro.
After you ahve made a creep tumour you can copy it after a certain time. And this copy you can copy again. So you have to go all over the front of your creep and copy the creep tumours whos cooldown has expired. Each expansion of the creep is the result of a manual action. Many zergs build a queen more than ahtcheries and use it only to assit creep spread. The terran will usually kill the creep tumours and the zerg has to stay active to remake it.
Rallying workers is going back to your base and put them to the mineral lines. Spreading creep is going all over the map and copy idle creep tumours. So basically it is two macro mechanics. Hitting the injects in time and cloning tumours.
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Warning !!
Attemp to start a Flame War
Im just saying...
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On May 22 2012 23:59 therockmanxx wrote:
Warning !!
Attemp to start a Flame War
Im just saying...
Actually, we made it out of that conversation without so much as an exclamation point.
Good job, everyone, I'm proud of all of you 
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On May 22 2012 23:34 fabiano wrote:
Ah c'mon, these macro mechanics they put on SC2 are just dumb to no end, and I believe they broken other parts of the game.
imo they just made harass even less important. If losing 3, 4 drones after a harass in BW was a big deal, losing 8-9 in SC2 has less impact once you get your inject larvae running.
Obviously the zerg macro mechanic is way harder than P and T, but it doesn't mean it is good for the game.
Harass in SC2 is important... But the problem the Kespa players shown that they don't know when to harass.
The sooner you harass in SC2 its better. Send A (not a move but one frigging single) Marine + scv and you already doing dmg cause the opponent would pull drones fearing bunker rush - if he doesn't pull drones. Hell you have a bunker just send in more marines ^^
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On May 22 2012 08:33 Scarecrow wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2012 02:00 Lordanubis wrote:On May 22 2012 01:33 fabiano wrote:On May 22 2012 00:20 therockmanxx wrote:
GSL players are progammers?
I mean Do they have a license? I am very uninformed, don't quote me on this, but in this huge SC2 horrible mess I don't think they have any sort of organization like KeSPA which requires progaming licenses. Really not sure how they expect to get people to keep following them next season if they're effectively advertising "KeSPA adventures in Bronze League". They're all pretty much Korean Masters with a couple of GM's at this point after around 2 months or less practice versus players who've got experience from the beta onwards. The game knowledge might not be there yet but the raw mechanics, multitask, reaction times and map awareness promise great things to come.
Oh I agree. I'm sure that given enough time they'll climb up to at least Code A level, maybe higher (depends on the person and how well they adapt to the game I guess).
My point was more that it doesn't really do much good for them right now. Right now, those games were incredibly poor. And those games are what is being advertised by KeSPA. I would question how many fans would understand/accept the 'potential' as a reason to keep watching.
Collectively, audiences don't tend to be too smart (at least here in the UK anyway) - they judge quickly, are slow to rethink, and quick reactions are often very damaging to shows. If the same is true in Korea, and the incredibly low standard of games causes the PL audience to make a judgement about SC2 as a result, how many of them would tune in next season when all they've been shown of the product has been low quality, and as a result they have made a judgement on the game and the standard the tournament would be at?
I would suggest the audience will shrink significantly. Whilst the KeSPA players will get to a high level eventually, I doubt it will be quick enough to make a difference - in many ways it's too late already. KeSPA should not have introduced SC2 until the next PL at the earliest, when they could be sure that the quality of games would be higher. As is, they've done their brand quite significant damage going forward imo.
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On May 23 2012 01:49 Lordanubis wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2012 08:33 Scarecrow wrote:On May 22 2012 02:00 Lordanubis wrote:On May 22 2012 01:33 fabiano wrote:On May 22 2012 00:20 therockmanxx wrote:
GSL players are progammers?
I mean Do they have a license? I am very uninformed, don't quote me on this, but in this huge SC2 horrible mess I don't think they have any sort of organization like KeSPA which requires progaming licenses. Really not sure how they expect to get people to keep following them next season if they're effectively advertising "KeSPA adventures in Bronze League". They're all pretty much Korean Masters with a couple of GM's at this point after around 2 months or less practice versus players who've got experience from the beta onwards. The game knowledge might not be there yet but the raw mechanics, multitask, reaction times and map awareness promise great things to come. Oh I agree. I'm sure that given enough time they'll climb up to at least Code A level, maybe higher (depends on the person and how well they adapt to the game I guess). My point was more that it doesn't really do much good for them right now. Right now, those games were incredibly poor. And those games are what is being advertised by KeSPA. I would question how many fans would understand/accept the 'potential' as a reason to keep watching.
While normally I'd agree, SC2 fans in particular tend to see the game as a decent-to-good game with a lot of potential (see the common "two more expansions!" and "it's a new game" lines in flamewar threads), so they might be more patient than is normal.
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On May 23 2012 04:26 Ribbon wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2012 01:49 Lordanubis wrote:On May 22 2012 08:33 Scarecrow wrote:On May 22 2012 02:00 Lordanubis wrote:On May 22 2012 01:33 fabiano wrote:On May 22 2012 00:20 therockmanxx wrote:
GSL players are progammers?
I mean Do they have a license? I am very uninformed, don't quote me on this, but in this huge SC2 horrible mess I don't think they have any sort of organization like KeSPA which requires progaming licenses. Really not sure how they expect to get people to keep following them next season if they're effectively advertising "KeSPA adventures in Bronze League". They're all pretty much Korean Masters with a couple of GM's at this point after around 2 months or less practice versus players who've got experience from the beta onwards. The game knowledge might not be there yet but the raw mechanics, multitask, reaction times and map awareness promise great things to come. Oh I agree. I'm sure that given enough time they'll climb up to at least Code A level, maybe higher (depends on the person and how well they adapt to the game I guess). My point was more that it doesn't really do much good for them right now. Right now, those games were incredibly poor. And those games are what is being advertised by KeSPA. I would question how many fans would understand/accept the 'potential' as a reason to keep watching. While normally I'd agree, SC2 fans in particular tend to see the game as a decent-to-good game with a lot of potential (see the common "two more expansions!" and "it's a new game" lines in flamewar threads), so they might be more patient than is normal.
This is very true (and evidenced by myself, as I'll be sticking with PL regardless at least for this season to see how it goes), but I thought the point of this whole thing from KeSPA's point of view was to convert the fans of BW over to SC2 for the coming seasons?
Sure some of the people who are already SC2 fans might stay, but won't this whole thing have been a failure if a significant number of the BW fans (or, those who watch the show on TV and thus generate ratings) just turn off because they judge SC2 or the level of competition to be inadequate?
That's what I fear...
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On May 23 2012 04:36 Lordanubis wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2012 04:26 Ribbon wrote:On May 23 2012 01:49 Lordanubis wrote:On May 22 2012 08:33 Scarecrow wrote:On May 22 2012 02:00 Lordanubis wrote:On May 22 2012 01:33 fabiano wrote:On May 22 2012 00:20 therockmanxx wrote:
GSL players are progammers?
I mean Do they have a license? I am very uninformed, don't quote me on this, but in this huge SC2 horrible mess I don't think they have any sort of organization like KeSPA which requires progaming licenses. Really not sure how they expect to get people to keep following them next season if they're effectively advertising "KeSPA adventures in Bronze League". They're all pretty much Korean Masters with a couple of GM's at this point after around 2 months or less practice versus players who've got experience from the beta onwards. The game knowledge might not be there yet but the raw mechanics, multitask, reaction times and map awareness promise great things to come. Oh I agree. I'm sure that given enough time they'll climb up to at least Code A level, maybe higher (depends on the person and how well they adapt to the game I guess). My point was more that it doesn't really do much good for them right now. Right now, those games were incredibly poor. And those games are what is being advertised by KeSPA. I would question how many fans would understand/accept the 'potential' as a reason to keep watching. While normally I'd agree, SC2 fans in particular tend to see the game as a decent-to-good game with a lot of potential (see the common "two more expansions!" and "it's a new game" lines in flamewar threads), so they might be more patient than is normal. This is very true (and evidenced by myself, as I'll be sticking with PL regardless at least for this season to see how it goes), but I thought the point of this whole thing from KeSPA's point of view was to convert the fans of BW over to SC2 for the coming seasons? Sure some of the people who are already SC2 fans might stay, but won't this whole thing have been a failure if a significant number of the BW fans (or, those who watch the show on TV and thus generate ratings) just turn off because they judge SC2 or the level of competition to be inadequate? That's what I fear...
Hell, even BW fans might turn off during BW given the fall in the quality of the games... I for one don't stay up till 3AM neither wake up 6AM to watch games live.
I find no motivation anymore to endure a fucked up sleeping schedule... all that is good is gone.
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Canada11591 Posts
On May 21 2012 17:04 densha wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2012 15:50 Shrewmy wrote:On May 21 2012 15:38 eeniebear wrote:On May 21 2012 11:17 ninini wrote:On May 21 2012 10:36 coolcor wrote:On May 21 2012 10:27 ninini wrote:On May 21 2012 08:41 Miyoshino wrote:
It wasn't an issue of SC2 being not popular because it wasn't released or barely released. Blizzard made very clear to the Koean scene 'no more rogue tournaments' and they gave Gom both a bag of money and exclusive rights to try to stop OGN and MBC. SC2 is just not popular in Korea. Is that so hard for you to understand? The fans still want BW, and the only reason why they are switching now is because the sponsors have noticed the foreign SC2 scene, and wants to have a piece of the cake. The south korean ppl wants to stay with BW, but the sponsors wants SC2. Without the sponsors, it doesn't matter what the fans wants, so Kespa is forced to switch. I thought one of the big reasons that sc2 was not popular was that it was not on tv. At least that was what this thread said at the time. http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=142288And blizzard made it impossible to get on tv by giving GOM exclusive rights. Was this thread completely mistaken about the reasons sc2 was not popular? The reason why SC2 isn't popular in Korea is because over there most ppl actually knows about BW, so they're sticking to the more spectator-friendly game. Most foreign SC2 fans haven't even played BW, or won't give it a chance. That's why picking SC2 feels so obvious to them. I know BW is old. I know that the graphics aren't the best, but the age of a game is irrelevant, and the SC2 graphics are even worse since it makes it impossible to see what is going on in the game. We understand that the quality of games will eventually become better, but the low quality of play was only a part of the problem. When I saw the games, it just made it more obvious what a nightmare SC2 is by comparison. The graphics, the simplistic unit pathing, etc. I feel offended that they even named that game after Starcraft 1. I hope Kespa stops this farce and just goes on with the switch. The way they are milking the audience to try and turn them into SC2 fans is offending. This, EXACTLY. The graphics in SC2 are a HUGE problem because they are too intricate. I played SC2 for six months before dumping it and going 100% BW again. Kespa should dump BW, completely fail with SC2, and then bring BW back. Just goo 100% SC2 for a while to prove it's a total failure. I don't understand how they're too 'intricate'. Blizzard graphics tend to be very simplistic and I dare-say cartoony. If anything it's an issue of the colours being too washed out. Watching these games, half the time I don't know what's going on or who's winning a battle. Is that really an issue of the game or an issue for yourself not willing to learn the game? I'm sure a lot of SC2 players watching Brood War would feel the same way. I can attest to that. I find the action in SC2 much easier to follow. I'm sure this has to do with playing the game on 1v1 ladder for the last two years and watching every GSL + other tournies since then too. When I watch BW I really don't know how a battle will turn out because I'm not used to watching it. I honestly think BW is more difficult to follow because in certain situations it's hard to tell what's happening. For example, I understand the awesomeness of BW muta micro, but as a spectator it really sucks not knowing how many mutas someone has. I just feel lost until the final battle and it's like "oh, I guess that guy had more mutas after all". Another example is Psi Storm is kind of awkward in it's animation and it's hard to get a feel for it's true AOE range. Another example is, as far as I can tell, observers can't select more than one unit at a time? Therefore the spectator can only see one unit's health bars at any time, which is a step backwards when you're used to seeing multiple units' health bars during an SC2 battle. Finally, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think observers can see what's upgrading during the game which makes me feel really lost not knowing what's happening. Same thing for dropships - it doesn't seem you know what's inside unless you see it load or unload. I'm sure long-time BW fans are really used to those things, but I don't understand how that should be easier for me as a new BW fan when compared to SC2?
See that's funny because I think the exact opposite. I find SC2 incredibly hard to view when they have all the healthbars on because that's all I can see. An entire screen of green/yellow/red lights. All the units get covered up and it's impossible to tell what's happening in the battle. Battle of the Healthbars is what I call it. I guess people like it because they keep demanding for healthbars on, but to me it's just like watching a screen of decreasing numbers which would be about as exciting. Except green lights are a little more flashy.
As for no unit tab. That's probably more a personal thing, but I love the story telling aspect this allows for the commentator. Too little information and you're in the dark- having unit supplies and resources is good. But noticing that the factory shop is spinning then lends itself to predictions whether it will be siege, fast fultures or mines.
There's also incredible tension built when you see the Templar Archive at work so your presume storm is on the way. You see the Protoss retreating, retreating, biding it's time. And you're asking when is storm coming? When's it coming? Is it coming?
Then boom, the screen get's covered it in storms and it's super exciting. I guess I can see why people like the unit tab, but I prefer the middle ground of knowing a bit, but not too much.
The observer also needs to be much more active in story telling. Rather than the a little icon appearing telling you that an armoury is being built and that's all, the observer needs to go to the base to show you. So it forces a little more camera movement to tell the whole story. Same with unit production- to pop back and see zealots and high templar piling out of the gateways or masses of dragoons. Rather than a little icon switch, the observer will show you the huge zealot lines that are crossing the screen to reinforce.
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On May 23 2012 05:27 fabiano wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2012 04:36 Lordanubis wrote:On May 23 2012 04:26 Ribbon wrote:On May 23 2012 01:49 Lordanubis wrote:On May 22 2012 08:33 Scarecrow wrote:On May 22 2012 02:00 Lordanubis wrote:On May 22 2012 01:33 fabiano wrote:On May 22 2012 00:20 therockmanxx wrote:
GSL players are progammers?
I mean Do they have a license? I am very uninformed, don't quote me on this, but in this huge SC2 horrible mess I don't think they have any sort of organization like KeSPA which requires progaming licenses. Really not sure how they expect to get people to keep following them next season if they're effectively advertising "KeSPA adventures in Bronze League". They're all pretty much Korean Masters with a couple of GM's at this point after around 2 months or less practice versus players who've got experience from the beta onwards. The game knowledge might not be there yet but the raw mechanics, multitask, reaction times and map awareness promise great things to come. Oh I agree. I'm sure that given enough time they'll climb up to at least Code A level, maybe higher (depends on the person and how well they adapt to the game I guess). My point was more that it doesn't really do much good for them right now. Right now, those games were incredibly poor. And those games are what is being advertised by KeSPA. I would question how many fans would understand/accept the 'potential' as a reason to keep watching. While normally I'd agree, SC2 fans in particular tend to see the game as a decent-to-good game with a lot of potential (see the common "two more expansions!" and "it's a new game" lines in flamewar threads), so they might be more patient than is normal. This is very true (and evidenced by myself, as I'll be sticking with PL regardless at least for this season to see how it goes), but I thought the point of this whole thing from KeSPA's point of view was to convert the fans of BW over to SC2 for the coming seasons? Sure some of the people who are already SC2 fans might stay, but won't this whole thing have been a failure if a significant number of the BW fans (or, those who watch the show on TV and thus generate ratings) just turn off because they judge SC2 or the level of competition to be inadequate? That's what I fear... Hell, even BW fans might turn off during BW given the fall in the quality of the games... I for one don't stay up till 3AM neither wake up 6AM to watch games live. I find no motivation anymore to endure a fucked up sleeping schedule... all that is good is gone.
Agreed, all gone
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EPT
