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SK Planet PL Season 2 Opening Day Games - Page 26

Forum Index > BW General
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Ribbon
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States5278 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-22 22:54:26
May 22 2012 22:54 GMT
#501
On May 23 2012 06:17 Falling wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 21 2012 17:04 densha wrote:
On May 21 2012 15:50 Shrewmy wrote:
On May 21 2012 15:38 eeniebear wrote:
On May 21 2012 11:17 ninini wrote:
On May 21 2012 10:36 coolcor wrote:
On May 21 2012 10:27 ninini wrote:
On May 21 2012 08:41 Miyoshino wrote:
It wasn't an issue of SC2 being not popular because it wasn't released or barely released. Blizzard made very clear to the Koean scene 'no more rogue tournaments' and they gave Gom both a bag of money and exclusive rights to try to stop OGN and MBC.

SC2 is just not popular in Korea. Is that so hard for you to understand? The fans still want BW, and the only reason why they are switching now is because the sponsors have noticed the foreign SC2 scene, and wants to have a piece of the cake. The south korean ppl wants to stay with BW, but the sponsors wants SC2. Without the sponsors, it doesn't matter what the fans wants, so Kespa is forced to switch.


I thought one of the big reasons that sc2 was not popular was that it was not on tv. At least that was what this thread said at the time.

http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=142288

And blizzard made it impossible to get on tv by giving GOM exclusive rights. Was this thread completely mistaken about the reasons sc2 was not popular?

The reason why SC2 isn't popular in Korea is because over there most ppl actually knows about BW, so they're sticking to the more spectator-friendly game. Most foreign SC2 fans haven't even played BW, or won't give it a chance. That's why picking SC2 feels so obvious to them. I know BW is old. I know that the graphics aren't the best, but the age of a game is irrelevant, and the SC2 graphics are even worse since it makes it impossible to see what is going on in the game. We understand that the quality of games will eventually become better, but the low quality of play was only a part of the problem. When I saw the games, it just made it more obvious what a nightmare SC2 is by comparison. The graphics, the simplistic unit pathing, etc. I feel offended that they even named that game after Starcraft 1. I hope Kespa stops this farce and just goes on with the switch. The way they are milking the audience to try and turn them into SC2 fans is offending.


This, EXACTLY. The graphics in SC2 are a HUGE problem because they are too intricate. I played SC2 for six months before dumping it and going 100% BW again.

Kespa should dump BW, completely fail with SC2, and then bring BW back. Just goo 100% SC2 for a while to prove it's a total failure.


I don't understand how they're too 'intricate'. Blizzard graphics tend to be very simplistic and I dare-say cartoony. If anything it's an issue of the colours being too washed out.

Watching these games, half the time I don't know what's going on or who's winning a battle.


Is that really an issue of the game or an issue for yourself not willing to learn the game? I'm sure a lot of SC2 players watching Brood War would feel the same way.


I can attest to that. I find the action in SC2 much easier to follow. I'm sure this has to do with playing the game on 1v1 ladder for the last two years and watching every GSL + other tournies since then too. When I watch BW I really don't know how a battle will turn out because I'm not used to watching it.

I honestly think BW is more difficult to follow because in certain situations it's hard to tell what's happening. For example, I understand the awesomeness of BW muta micro, but as a spectator it really sucks not knowing how many mutas someone has. I just feel lost until the final battle and it's like "oh, I guess that guy had more mutas after all". Another example is Psi Storm is kind of awkward in it's animation and it's hard to get a feel for it's true AOE range. Another example is, as far as I can tell, observers can't select more than one unit at a time? Therefore the spectator can only see one unit's health bars at any time, which is a step backwards when you're used to seeing multiple units' health bars during an SC2 battle. Finally, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think observers can see what's upgrading during the game which makes me feel really lost not knowing what's happening. Same thing for dropships - it doesn't seem you know what's inside unless you see it load or unload.

I'm sure long-time BW fans are really used to those things, but I don't understand how that should be easier for me as a new BW fan when compared to SC2?

See that's funny because I think the exact opposite. I find SC2 incredibly hard to view when they have all the healthbars on because that's all I can see. An entire screen of green/yellow/red lights. All the units get covered up and it's impossible to tell what's happening in the battle. Battle of the Healthbars is what I call it. I guess people like it because they keep demanding for healthbars on, but to me it's just like watching a screen of decreasing numbers which would be about as exciting. Except green lights are a little more flashy.

As for no unit tab. That's probably more a personal thing, but I love the story telling aspect this allows for the commentator. Too little information and you're in the dark- having unit supplies and resources is good. But noticing that the factory shop is spinning then lends itself to predictions whether it will be siege, fast fultures or mines.

There's also incredible tension built when you see the Templar Archive at work so your presume storm is on the way. You see the Protoss retreating, retreating, biding it's time. And you're asking when is storm coming? When's it coming? Is it coming?
Then boom, the screen get's covered it in storms and it's super exciting. I guess I can see why people like the unit tab, but I prefer the middle ground of knowing a bit, but not too much.

The observer also needs to be much more active in story telling. Rather than the a little icon appearing telling you that an armoury is being built and that's all, the observer needs to go to the base to show you. So it forces a little more camera movement to tell the whole story. Same with unit production- to pop back and see zealots and high templar piling out of the gateways or masses of dragoons. Rather than a little icon switch, the observer will show you the huge zealot lines that are crossing the screen to reinforce.


One advantage of the Proleague is that OGN knows how to put on a show. If anyone can make an SC2 game exciting, they can.

The other thing about the Proleague I find intriguing is that KeSPA is requesting to have their own server for private practice, meaning that KeSPA (and perhaps only KeSPA) would be playing SC2 on a LAN. Tournament servers is something Blizz promised a long time back, and I'm really interested in seeing how that pans out. On things besides LAN, Blizz tends to concede to community pressure if it's hard enough (see: The ladder map pool), so if KeSPA gets Blizzard's ear, it could potentially have a big impact on how Legacy of the Void turns out.

That, I think, is the big potential silver lining in all this, that Blizzard increasingly has a bigger financial interest in keeping the pro scene happy than they doing in selling to casuals. Not that they'll take out automine or anything that extreme, but....we'll see how that goes. Maybe I'm being overly hopeful again, but it's interesting to hear that KeSPA is trying to get Blizzard to give the pro scene things.
Catch]22
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Sweden2683 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-22 23:06:02
May 22 2012 23:02 GMT
#502
I do agree that the OGN observers are really good at, as you say, putting on a show. But the quality and entertainment value of the games played were WORLDS away from the Code S Finals, and if people are judging Sc2 on these proleague games played, I can understand why you'd think its shit.

If i recall correctly, Hot_Bid expressed this in a better way during the livestream (cant remember if its in his blog/livereport)

Edit: This isnt Hot_Bids words, but a way to imagine what I mean is: imagine someone wanting to explain how awesome Proleague is to watch, and you get them to tune in to one random game, but instead of an epic proleague battle between Flash and Bisu they get to watch Perfectman in one of his really horrible games. They then decide that proleague is really shite without watching a single more round .
empty.bottle
Profile Joined July 2009
685 Posts
May 22 2012 23:07 GMT
#503
On May 23 2012 08:02 Catch]22 wrote:
I do agree that the OGN observers are really good at, as you say, putting on a show. But the quality and entertainment value of the games played were WORLDS away from the Code S Finals, and if people are judging Sc2 on these proleague games played, I can understand why you'd think its shit.

If i recall correctly, Hot_Bid expressed this in a better way during the livestream (cant remember if its in his blog/livereport)


The quality of a random OSL match is WORLDS away from a Code "S" Final, if people are judging Sc2 on these games I can understand why you'd think its shit.
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