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On May 12 2012 19:24 coolcor wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 19:05 Stratos wrote:On May 12 2012 18:53 andrea20 wrote:
I'm wondering whether anyone has shown them SC2BW. Do they even know of its existence? It's not an exact replica, of course, but perhaps a facelift would be better than just switching to actual SC2. A facelift? You mean to take SC2BW and change the graphics to BW? You guys sure know how to make things complicated. Aside from that, why do you think Blizzard would ever agree on anyone using a lame replica of BW instead of their new game they want to sell? It's not going to happen, ever. And the game isn't going to get much better either. It's been designed to appease the crowds and it's doing just that. Because the only way to play the lame replica of bw is to buy their new game they want to sell?
So you create a game, spend a bunch of money advertising it and tweeking it, produce expansions and expect people to buy them and suddenly start promoting it by a lame replica of a 1998 game?
"Look dear users, our game is terrible so instead we encourage the proscene to use our older game with worse graphics, you should consider doing that too, since it will cost you a lot of money."
Yeah that sounds legit. Good luck waiting for that to happen.
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On May 12 2012 17:11 Ribbon wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 15:01 TrainSamurai wrote:On May 12 2012 12:50 Bareleon wrote:On May 12 2012 12:48 fabiano wrote:if they broke the game into 3 pieces, each piece should be complete in its own, otherwise we consumers are just fucking dumb to buy half shit for the price of a full shit..
Oh and flash said he enjoys SC2
So... ? Oh uh, did you forget Blizz is a company? And uh, companies need to make money? You are not making a computer game so you do not have to make any decisions for your game. Its always different when it comes to making money and making a game. Thank you for pointing that out captain obvious. I'm sure none of us had thought of that =.= . Btw might wanna read the latest flash interview. Loving the comments about how sc2 flash fans feel betrayed when he said protoss OP considering that Flash has no problem complaining in BW. Flash, by his own admission, is bad at SC2 and would get crushed in Code B, so I don't know why everyone's taking his word as gospel on SC2 balance.
This post is filled with so much irony that any intelligent comebacks by me are being stifled by my laughter.
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I just waded through 40 pages of bitching about SC2 vs BW because all I want to know is can I watch this, and will there be English commentary and easy-to-find videos. But it looks like nobody's really sure... there's gonna be vods, there probably won't be a stream right away, and nobody knows about English commentary but it doesn't seem likely.
So I'm super duper excited about this. I love StarCraft. Brood War, SC2, love it all. Love it love it love it. I love the GSL, I love my favorite English BW commentators, I love Day9, NukeTheStars, Husky, Tastostis, Moletrap, JP McDaniel, on and on and on. I love MVP, DRG, NesTea, MC, Boxer, Nada, Flash, Jaedong, Bisu, Reach, Zero, and STOOOOOORKUUUU!!! I got so into watching Korean VODs that it became my new lunchtime activity at work. I volunteered to feed our baby girl all the time because it meant I had a good half hour in front of the PC to catch another game. I continually subscribe to new GSL seasons and eat it up. I went to MLG and had an absolute blast watching Bomber and Idra and Huk and everyone live and meeting the TL pros and drinking Dr. Peppers for hours and hours with 2000 of my closest friends. All cheering for StarCraft on the big screen.
Look, I'm old as heck - I went to E3 the in 1998. THE year. Blizzard was so hip they had rented out a nearby hotel lobby just for the hell of it, because they wanted a captive audience for their new game's big debut. Loving WC2 like I did, hell yes I went! I met lots of the devs, hung out with a dude in a 10' tall Zealot suit, and got to see the game before anyone else (this is before YouTube... we used two cups and a string... until then you could only see still shots of the game). I was in love. I worked at Best Buy as a young dude and by God it was my mission to stock SC and I made sure to fill as many shelves as humanly possible so everyone would see it when they walked in the door (yeah, I know... we had to use stores to get games!) - of course I pulled my copy before I stocked them. The first boxes were so cool - three different covers, one had a Terran Marine (sans helmet), one had a Hydralisk, and one had a Zealot - all closeup faces. I took the Hydra because that thing was boss as all get out. I knew I had to play me some Zerg. But I wasn't about to play that campaign in anything but the order the designers intended. I sucked at SC online but I played every chance I got. That damn game cost me at least one year in college.
I have never been as excited as when I learned so many years later (marriage, kids, career, house...) that they were making ANOTHER STARCRAFT. It was that announcement that somehow led me to a message board that linked a pro game, and started my hobby. I watch more than I play and I wouldn't have it any other way. And now you're telling me my favorite players' careers aren't over yet? HELL TO THE YEAH! Am I excited to see what happens? Wooooooo!
So anyway. I love the GSL because I can go there and find in an easily indexed format the newest matches and watch them when I have the time. I'll gladly keep paying them the cash. The games come out right on schedule, and the casters are supreme. The production values are top notch, and the site rocks for bandwidth and speed. SC looks incredible on the big screen in HD! I would love love love to see them do this for this new Proleague - I'll watch it in Korean in low res if I have to, but if you can produce something like what they've done for the GSL here and it has Stork (and for the love of god don't take out Carriers yet! Just for him!) and everyone else I love then SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY!
I've seen SC go from an obscure hobby that a lot of the gaming world's forgotten to something where thousands show up at the convention center just to watch. I'm so glad we at least have two more games coming! Knowing Blizzard, I'll be a retiree before SC3 comes out! :D
So yeah. My sig says it all.
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On May 12 2012 20:53 meldonSC wrote:
I just waded through 40 pages of bitching about SC2 vs BW because all I want to know is can I watch this, and will there be English commentary and easy-to-find videos. But it looks like nobody's really sure... there's gonna be vods, there probably won't be a stream right away, and nobody knows about English commentary but it doesn't seem likely.
There will be VODs.
There will be a live Korean stream. An official stream and some TL restreams.
There won't be live English commentary for the first few games but there is a possibility that it will eventually be implemented.
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On May 12 2012 19:31 Stratos wrote:
why do you think Blizzard would ever agree on anyone using a lame replica of BW instead of their new game they want to sell? It's not going to happen, ever. And the game isn't going to get much better either. It's been designed to appease the crowds and it's doing just that.
So you create a game, spend a bunch of money advertising it and tweeking it, produce expansions and expect people to buy them and suddenly start promoting it by a lame replica of a 1998 game?
"Look dear users, our game is terrible so instead we encourage the proscene to use our older game with worse graphics, you should consider doing that too, since it will cost you a lot of money."
Yeah that sounds legit. Good luck waiting for that to happen.
Proleague doesn't have the backing of Blizzard, whereas GSL does. Proleague didn't need Blizzard in all the years it's been doing it. They aren't actually required to play the core game.
SC2BW is as close as you'll get to BW on SC2. It doesn't have all the glitch-crazy stuff like passing through buildings, but at least it's being constantly updated through community feedback.
If DOTA can become a legitimate tournament game even though it's a "Use Map Settings" map, I don't see why SC2BW cannot do the same, either.
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On May 12 2012 22:48 andrea20 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 19:31 Stratos wrote:
why do you think Blizzard would ever agree on anyone using a lame replica of BW instead of their new game they want to sell? It's not going to happen, ever. And the game isn't going to get much better either. It's been designed to appease the crowds and it's doing just that.
So you create a game, spend a bunch of money advertising it and tweeking it, produce expansions and expect people to buy them and suddenly start promoting it by a lame replica of a 1998 game?
"Look dear users, our game is terrible so instead we encourage the proscene to use our older game with worse graphics, you should consider doing that too, since it will cost you a lot of money."
Yeah that sounds legit. Good luck waiting for that to happen. Proleague doesn't have the backing of Blizzard, whereas GSL does. Proleague didn't need Blizzard in all the years it's been doing it. They aren't actually required to play the core game. SC2BW is as close as you'll get to BW on SC2. It doesn't have all the glitch-crazy stuff like passing through buildings, but at least it's being constantly updated through community feedback. If DOTA can become a legitimate tournament game even though it's a "Use Map Settings" map, I don't see why SC2BW cannot do the same, either.
Never going to happen. Blizzard is in the way. As long as they are managed under the current jurisdiction, NO UMS CAN BE USED FOR TOUNAMENTS because you need their permission in order to even be able to run one. Blizzard have total control of this 'esport' shenanigans, or until SC2 gets completely overtaken by League of Legend.
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cause people could play bw instead... sc2bw is ridiculous, there is no point in that
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On May 12 2012 22:55 Ricjames wrote:
cause people could play bw instead... sc2bw is ridiculous, there is no point in that
Believe it or not but graphics has a huge impact these days.
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On May 12 2012 23:12 Darneck wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 22:55 Ricjames wrote:
cause people could play bw instead... sc2bw is ridiculous, there is no point in that Believe it or not but graphics has a huge impact these days.
But the aesthetic of SC2 is actually repulsive to a lot of people. It's extremely dark and difficult to tell what's happening. I think the only people who really like it are people who've gotten used to it after playing 100 or so games, it is that bad.
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On May 12 2012 23:31 Chef wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 23:12 Darneck wrote:On May 12 2012 22:55 Ricjames wrote:
cause people could play bw instead... sc2bw is ridiculous, there is no point in that Believe it or not but graphics has a huge impact these days. But the aesthetic of SC2 is actually repulsive to a lot of people. It's extremely dark and difficult to tell what's happening. I think the only people who really like it are people who've gotten used to it after playing 100 or so games, it is that bad.
Yeah, I'm one of those people.
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Please Flash, don't change race to protoss!
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On May 12 2012 23:12 Darneck wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 22:55 Ricjames wrote:
cause people could play bw instead... sc2bw is ridiculous, there is no point in that Believe it or not but graphics has a huge impact these days.
I'd say the graphics are pretty good and clear. Nothing wrong with it. The only reason people believe graphic are important is because of the media. It's all in the head and low and behold. Gameplay will always seize the day in the end.
On May 12 2012 20:53 meldonSC wrote:
I just waded through 40 pages of bitching about SC2 vs BW because all I want to know is can I watch this, and will there be English commentary and easy-to-find videos. But it looks like nobody's really sure... there's gonna be vods, there probably won't be a stream right away, and nobody knows about English commentary but it doesn't seem likely.
So I'm super duper excited about this. I love StarCraft. Brood War, SC2, love it all. Love it love it love it. I love the GSL, I love my favorite English BW commentators, I love Day9, NukeTheStars, Husky, Tastostis, Moletrap, JP McDaniel, on and on and on. I love MVP, DRG, NesTea, MC, Boxer, Nada, Flash, Jaedong, Bisu, Reach, Zero, and STOOOOOORKUUUU!!! I got so into watching Korean VODs that it became my new lunchtime activity at work. I volunteered to feed our baby girl all the time because it meant I had a good half hour in front of the PC to catch another game. I continually subscribe to new GSL seasons and eat it up. I went to MLG and had an absolute blast watching Bomber and Idra and Huk and everyone live and meeting the TL pros and drinking Dr. Peppers for hours and hours with 2000 of my closest friends. All cheering for StarCraft on the big screen.
Look, I'm old as heck - I went to E3 the in 1998. THE year. Blizzard was so hip they had rented out a nearby hotel lobby just for the hell of it, because they wanted a captive audience for their new game's big debut. Loving WC2 like I did, hell yes I went! I met lots of the devs, hung out with a dude in a 10' tall Zealot suit, and got to see the game before anyone else (this is before YouTube... we used two cups and a string... until then you could only see still shots of the game). I was in love. I worked at Best Buy as a young dude and by God it was my mission to stock SC and I made sure to fill as many shelves as humanly possible so everyone would see it when they walked in the door (yeah, I know... we had to use stores to get games!) - of course I pulled my copy before I stocked them. The first boxes were so cool - three different covers, one had a Terran Marine (sans helmet), one had a Hydralisk, and one had a Zealot - all closeup faces. I took the Hydra because that thing was boss as all get out. I knew I had to play me some Zerg. But I wasn't about to play that campaign in anything but the order the designers intended. I sucked at SC online but I played every chance I got. That damn game cost me at least one year in college.
I have never been as excited as when I learned so many years later (marriage, kids, career, house...) that they were making ANOTHER STARCRAFT. It was that announcement that somehow led me to a message board that linked a pro game, and started my hobby. I watch more than I play and I wouldn't have it any other way. And now you're telling me my favorite players' careers aren't over yet? HELL TO THE YEAH! Am I excited to see what happens? Wooooooo!
So anyway. I love the GSL because I can go there and find in an easily indexed format the newest matches and watch them when I have the time. I'll gladly keep paying them the cash. The games come out right on schedule, and the casters are supreme. The production values are top notch, and the site rocks for bandwidth and speed. SC looks incredible on the big screen in HD! I would love love love to see them do this for this new Proleague - I'll watch it in Korean in low res if I have to, but if you can produce something like what they've done for the GSL here and it has Stork (and for the love of god don't take out Carriers yet! Just for him!) and everyone else I love then SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY!
I've seen SC go from an obscure hobby that a lot of the gaming world's forgotten to something where thousands show up at the convention center just to watch. I'm so glad we at least have two more games coming! Knowing Blizzard, I'll be a retiree before SC3 comes out! :D
So yeah. My sig says it all.
You WILL be able to watch this.
This hasn't changed.
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On May 12 2012 23:57 one-one-one wrote:
Please Flash, don't change race to protoss!
He can do whatever he pleases. REAL Flash fans don't follow merely because of his SC race, they worship him because of his skills.
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Both camps claim the other game has worse graphics.
My theory on why is that: The easily available VODs of important matches for both games are of low quality (~360p). If you haven't played a complex game yourself it's literally impossible to learn it from 360p. So you just end up hating it.
Moreover, there are serious technical difficulties to try the other game for each of the two camps. BW requires special fixes to run on Win7, and SC2 requires decent hardware to run at all. So way too often people just end up only with those ~360p VODs. And of course conclude their game has better graphics, because they actually play it.
To SC2-only fans: Believe it or not BW looks stunning in HD (1080p). Crisp, bright, detailed. It has such small details that I've never even noticed in my life before running the game in 1080p, even though the core engine only renders 640x480.
To BW-only fans: SC2 requires higher definition to look as it's intended to look. The lowest resolution for it is 1024x768; but you won't get that from the free VODs of important matches, or the free GSL stream. So to judge the graphics you need to get some ordinary youtube VOD in really high quality, even if it's just Husky casting some unimportant ladder replay.
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On May 13 2012 00:51 figq wrote:
Both camps claim the other game has worse graphics.
My theory on why is that: The easily available VODs of important matches for both games are of low quality (~360p). If you haven't played a complex game yourself it's literally impossible to learn it from 360p. So you just end up hating it.
Moreover, there are serious technical difficulties to try the other game for each of the two camps. BW requires special fixes to run on Win7, and SC2 requires decent hardware to run at all. So way too often people just end up only with those ~360p VODs. And of course conclude their game has better graphics, because they actually play it.
To SC2-only fans: Believe it or not BW looks stunning in HD (1080p). Crisp, bright, detailed. It has such small details that I've never even noticed in my life before running the game in 1080p, even though the core engine only renders 640x480.
To BW-only fans: SC2 requires higher definition to look as it's intended to look. The lowest resolution for it is 1024x768; but you won't get that from the free VODs of important matches, or the free GSL stream. So to judge the graphics you need to get some ordinary youtube VOD in really high quality, even if it's just Husky casting some unimportant ladder replay.
Do you really believe we (bw fans) judge SC2 from VODS? Do you really think we are that short sighted? I wouldn't dare to judge anything unless i tried it myself and see for myself what it is. I came, i saw, i made a judgement and it didn't pass.
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On May 13 2012 01:09 Ricjames wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2012 00:51 figq wrote:
Both camps claim the other game has worse graphics.
My theory on why is that: The easily available VODs of important matches for both games are of low quality (~360p). If you haven't played a complex game yourself it's literally impossible to learn it from 360p. So you just end up hating it.
Moreover, there are serious technical difficulties to try the other game for each of the two camps. BW requires special fixes to run on Win7, and SC2 requires decent hardware to run at all. So way too often people just end up only with those ~360p VODs. And of course conclude their game has better graphics, because they actually play it.
To SC2-only fans: Believe it or not BW looks stunning in HD (1080p). Crisp, bright, detailed. It has such small details that I've never even noticed in my life before running the game in 1080p, even though the core engine only renders 640x480.
To BW-only fans: SC2 requires higher definition to look as it's intended to look. The lowest resolution for it is 1024x768; but you won't get that from the free VODs of important matches, or the free GSL stream. So to judge the graphics you need to get some ordinary youtube VOD in really high quality, even if it's just Husky casting some unimportant ladder replay. Do you really believe we (bw fans) judge SC2 from VODS? Do you really think we are that short sighted? I wouldn't dare to judge anything unless i tried it myself and see for myself what it is. I came, i saw, i made a judgement and it didn't pass. I'm only talking about graphics here. People who claim the other game doesn't have clear graphics have not played it; I can't see any other explanation. BW is crisper, but both games are clear enough in HD.
Oh, and you don't qualify for my clause "BW-only" then - it means people who have not even played SC2 at all (and there are such people, because of old hardware for example). Just as there are SC2 players who could never try BW even if they wanted, because they couldn't figure out the fixes for Win7.
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Wow I'm sure it'll be a very entertaining season. A lot of anger but admit it's going to be interesting seeing these guys play sc2.
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Uhm does that theory presume I'm the only one who bothered to google high-res images of both games at some point in time?
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On May 12 2012 13:02 Bareleon wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 12:56 miercat wrote:On May 12 2012 12:39 Bareleon wrote:On May 12 2012 12:38 fabiano wrote:On May 12 2012 12:35 Bareleon wrote:
Too many BW trolls bashing on SC2 what a shame. No one is forcing you to play or watch SC2. People still cant take different game is different nor can they take change.
i am glad BW will be dead. Forever SC2!!!!!!! <3 Saddening to see people like you who clearly don't know how much better SC2 can be. Only if you knew how epic BW games are... but it's okay, some people are satisfied enough with little. I am not surprised you would compare a complete game to a non-complete game. People have done it since July 2010. Oh and flash said he enjoys SC2.  Whether the game is complete or not is irrelevant. SCII is fundamentally deficient in many, if not all of the categories that make BW such an entertaining spectator sport. You could throw in all the new units you want, balance the races perfectly, but unless the gameplay/game design is completely rebuilt, SCII will always be lacking in key respects. Could SCII be a lot better? - sure. Can it realistically become as good as BW? - not even close. All this is just opinion. I can say SC2 is far better to watch than BW. That will be my opinion. Guess you never watched any pro sc2 matches. They are epic! I just watched huk vs sleep (pvz) that was an epic match!!
Whether or not someone prefers to watch BW or SCII could be a personal "opinion." However, the fundamental differences between the games, and how these differences impact gameplay, competition, and entertainment, at the highest levels, is fact (essentially SCII is constrained in a number of areas). Whether you prefer it or not, BW at the highest level of competition, just offers "more" of essentially everything that SCII can offer.
I have watched a number of Pro SCII matches, over the course of ~1.5 years. I found them dull, lacking, graphically irritating to watch (looks like cartoon, poor unit design, poor overall race graphic design, spells look really bad(e.g. infested terran looks terrible, fungal growth and neural parasite look terrible), all the units clump, etc..... Just the graphics alone make it psychologically painful for me to watch. In terms of gameplay, it is just as bad.
It's not even really a case of SCII not being as good as BW - or SCII needing time to catch up, it's more like Pro BW is the most entertaining media ever created, and SCII is fundamentally so bad (in terms of graphics and gameplay- and consequently so limited) that I can't stand watching it.
Yes, if you prefer SCII over BW, that is your personal preference, but in that case, you prefer a watered down product, to say the least.
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this discussion makes our community look bad. stop taking yourselves so serious.
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EPT
