The BW board is full of assholes who think they're holier than thou, when the truth is that they're just mad that BW isn't popular anymore and is dying. That's the truth.
BW is still very popular. People are mad that BW has met an unnatural death due to its sequel + IP rights + match fixing, whatever.
Dunno I've been telling everyone this has been happening for a long time but no one believed me~
Nah, as I said before, most people knew it was happening. It's just that the way you packaged the "news" was so annoying that they didn't want to openly side with you. And why are you still hung up about this? Move on.
how do you package news like that, to a group of people who wants to be deluded? or to those people who somehow think that they know everything despite knowing based off a limited amount of information on the scene? no matter how you package it, it's "negative".
Either way it's kind of amusing since the interview has a lot of PR statements. You have no actual idea if any of the BW progamers find SC2 "fun". Because no matter what they have to tell everyone it's fun cause they have to promote the game, etc. There's many things like that laced in the interview so keep that in mind. No one talks "out of line" in Korea.
On April 08 2012 02:49 Milkis wrote: Also, one more thing I'd like to add.
The reason why the BW scene is collapsing is 100% because it's a sponsor based model. There are still a TON of BW fans. Imagine if Koreans paid for subscriptions, paid actual money to go to finals, etc. But the fans balked at this very idea immediately, which basically forced BW into the model it is today... very very sponsor based.
When you're no longer answering to the fans but your sponsors, you get very weird things going on. I mean, every finals is still a full house imagine if 5000 people show up and you charge 10 bucks each -- that's 50K, that's 1/10th of what it costs OSL to sponsor. Imagine if you did events for semi finals too. etc etc. the cost of sponsorships would be much less.
Imagine if PL finals charged 10 bucks. 30K people show up, that's 300K. That's 1/10th of what it costs to sponsor a Proleague (approximinately). Things like that. But Koreans really drove away from this model, which is a very scary thought in the end.
These are numbers that they can get CURRENTLY. But because Koreans fans now have the idea they will never pay for esports... well. There you go.
I am more than glad to pay 10 bucks for BW. Hell I am willing to put as much as 30 bucks to watch one full season of individual league or 20 bucks for PL. By the way I don`t even live in SK, all I want is some official stream and I`ll be already content. Why did the Koreans take this game for granted...
On April 08 2012 02:49 Milkis wrote: Also, one more thing I'd like to add.
The reason why the BW scene is collapsing is 100% because it's a sponsor based model. There are still a TON of BW fans. Imagine if Koreans paid for subscriptions, paid actual money to go to finals, etc. But the fans balked at this very idea immediately, which basically forced BW into the model it is today... very very sponsor based.
When you're no longer answering to the fans but your sponsors, you get very weird things going on. I mean, every finals is still a full house imagine if 5000 people show up and you charge 10 bucks each -- that's 50K, that's 1/10th of what it costs OSL to sponsor. Imagine if you did events for semi finals too. etc etc. the cost of sponsorships would be much less.
Imagine if PL finals charged 10 bucks. 30K people show up, that's 300K. That's 1/10th of what it costs to sponsor a Proleague (approximinately). Things like that. But Koreans really drove away from this model, which is a very scary thought in the end.
These are numbers that they can get CURRENTLY. But because Koreans fans now have the idea they will never pay for esports... well. There you go.
Any chance of the BW scene to pack up and move to the interwebs if OGN drops it? Internet should be a bit more friendly environment for a low cost production of content (can do more with less sponsor money).
Although this might help better expose SC2 as a game to the Korean audience, it will not help expose the SC2 scene since it seems like it will only be incorporating the original KeSPA teams without any of the existing SC2 teams. You have this whole group of great SC2 players and teams that will still be unknown off to the sides if OGN decides to just stick SC2 into SPL with only the original BW teams playing. It's good to expose SC2 as a game, but this implementation will just fracture the scenes and is definitely not optimal
Is Brawl trying to leech from the Melee playerbase? Are there Brawl players coming to the Melee forums and saying "I hope player x is coming to Brawl"? Are there Brawl players saying that Melee should die because Brawl is the new thing?
To you second point, even many SC2 players see that SC2 is boring or stale at the moment. Look at the reaction the FRB thread caused. Look how people, and most of them SC2 players are complaining over the UI two years in.
We BW players know better which potential SC2 could have had, and how Blizz fucked up.
I don't understand why it bothers you so much that SC2 fans want to see Flash, Jaedong, Bisu, Fantasy, etc. playing SC2. We've all seen how great these players are or at least heard about how good they are. Funnily enough I've heard more BW players say SC2 is going to die like BW is because it won't last against League, than I have seen SC2 players saying BW should die because its old.
I don't get what point you're trying to make with the UI thread. Sure, laddering on sc2 is lonely I guess, but that's a problem with Battle.Net 2.0 and not with Starcraft II gameplay. FRB thread? I don't know which one you're talking about, could you link it or give me the full name so I can find it?
Is Brawl trying to leech from the Melee playerbase? Are there Brawl players coming to the Melee forums and saying "I hope player x is coming to Brawl"? Are there Brawl players saying that Melee should die because Brawl is the new thing?
To you second point, even many SC2 players see that SC2 is boring or stale at the moment. Look at the reaction the FRB thread caused. Look how people, and most of them SC2 players are complaining over the UI two years in.
We BW players know better which potential SC2 could have had, and how Blizz fucked up.
I don't understand why it bothers you so much that SC2 fans want to see Flash, Jaedong, Bisu, Fantasy, etc. playing SC2. We've all seen how great these players are or at least heard about how good they are. Funnily enough I've heard more BW players say SC2 is going to die like BW is because it won't last against League, than I have seen SC2 players saying BW should die because its old.
I don't get what point you're trying to make with the UI thread. Sure, laddering on sc2 is lonely I guess, but that's a problem with Battle.Net 2.0 and not with Starcraft II gameplay. FRB thread? I don't know which one you're talking about, could you link it or give me the full name so I can find it?
Anyone with a half of a brain can see the transparency of such distaste. Come on, man.
Is Brawl trying to leech from the Melee playerbase? Are there Brawl players coming to the Melee forums and saying "I hope player x is coming to Brawl"? Are there Brawl players saying that Melee should die because Brawl is the new thing?
To you second point, even many SC2 players see that SC2 is boring or stale at the moment. Look at the reaction the FRB thread caused. Look how people, and most of them SC2 players are complaining over the UI two years in.
We BW players know better which potential SC2 could have had, and how Blizz fucked up.
I don't understand why it bothers you so much that SC2 fans want to see Flash, Jaedong, Bisu, Fantasy, etc. playing SC2. We've all seen how great these players are or at least heard about how good they are. Funnily enough I've heard more BW players say SC2 is going to die like BW is because it won't last against League, than I have seen SC2 players saying BW should die because its old.
I don't get what point you're trying to make with the UI thread. Sure, laddering on sc2 is lonely I guess, but that's a problem with Battle.Net 2.0 and not with Starcraft II gameplay. FRB thread? I don't know which one you're tmalking about, could you link it or give me the full name so I can find it?
I didn't post that. Please credit the post to the proper poster.
On April 08 2012 03:00 Xiphos wrote: I am more than glad to pay 10 bucks for BW. Hell I am willing to put as much as 30 bucks to watch one full season of individual league or 20 bucks for PL. By the way I don`t even live in SK, all I want is some official stream and I`ll be already content. Why did the Koreans take this game for granted...
Mostly because 30 bucks is "a lot". 10 bucks is also probably "a lot". Koreans are working off a much lower GDP. If you're making like 40K a year you're far far above what most koreans make. So I guess it's a bit more painful since you're a lot more tight on money. This was worse a few years ago when they were just recovering from the recession.
They did have official streams. Daum for example had an official stream. They just never charged for it.
On April 08 2012 03:02 Hundisilm wrote: Any chance of the BW scene to pack up and move to the interwebs if OGN drops it? Internet should be a bit more friendly environment for a low cost production of content (can do more with less sponsor money).
Sure. Things are kind of taking off in afreeca nowadays, esp with the old progamers streaming there.
Is Brawl trying to leech from the Melee playerbase? Are there Brawl players coming to the Melee forums and saying "I hope player x is coming to Brawl"? Are there Brawl players saying that Melee should die because Brawl is the new thing?
To you second point, even many SC2 players see that SC2 is boring or stale at the moment. Look at the reaction the FRB thread caused. Look how people, and most of them SC2 players are complaining over the UI two years in.
We BW players know better which potential SC2 could have had, and how Blizz fucked up.
I don't understand why it bothers you so much that SC2 fans want to see Flash, Jaedong, Bisu, Fantasy, etc. playing SC2. We've all seen how great these players are or at least heard about how good they are. Funnily enough I've heard more BW players say SC2 is going to die like BW is because it won't last against League, than I have seen SC2 players saying BW should die because its old.
I don't get what point you're trying to make with the UI thread. Sure, laddering on sc2 is lonely I guess, but that's a problem with Battle.Net 2.0 and not with Starcraft II gameplay. FRB thread? I don't know which one you're talking about, could you link it or give me the full name so I can find it?
Anyone with a half of a brain can see the transparency of such distaste. Come on, man.
Well then I guess we're just going to have to settle for it actually happening then. I mean this is literally like being an NBA fan and being disgusted at seeing Lebron James casually playing softball with friends.
On April 08 2012 02:49 Milkis wrote: Also, one more thing I'd like to add.
The reason why the BW scene is collapsing is 100% because it's a sponsor based model. There are still a TON of BW fans. Imagine if Koreans paid for subscriptions, paid actual money to go to finals, etc. But the fans balked at this very idea immediately, which basically forced BW into the model it is today... very very sponsor based.
When you're no longer answering to the fans but your sponsors, you get very weird things going on. I mean, every finals is still a full house imagine if 5000 people show up and you charge 10 bucks each -- that's 50K, that's 1/10th of what it costs OSL to sponsor. Imagine if you did events for semi finals too. etc etc. the cost of sponsorships would be much less.
Imagine if PL finals charged 10 bucks. 30K people show up, that's 300K. That's 1/10th of what it costs to sponsor a Proleague (approximinately). Things like that. But Koreans really drove away from this model, which is a very scary thought in the end.
These are numbers that they can get CURRENTLY. But because Koreans fans now have the idea they will never pay for esports... well. There you go.
I am more than glad to pay 10 bucks for BW. Hell I am willing to put as much as 30 bucks to watch one full season of individual league or 20 bucks for PL. By the way I don`t even live in SK, all I want is some official stream and I`ll be already content. Why did the Koreans take this game for granted...
I think it's still not late if they are really in a pinch they could have open up a donation box with a title saying " You Love Bw ? We also do, but we need your help too, Please Donate to keep us around ^_^ " . If each person donates let say $10 a day and such I bet that fans are willing to go that far to help keep their scene . Although I don't mind paying to watch pro league .. still the donation method is one way bw scene can use it to fund proleague .
On April 08 2012 02:49 Milkis wrote: Also, one more thing I'd like to add.
The reason why the BW scene is collapsing is 100% because it's a sponsor based model. There are still a TON of BW fans. Imagine if Koreans paid for subscriptions, paid actual money to go to finals, etc. But the fans balked at this very idea immediately, which basically forced BW into the model it is today... very very sponsor based.
When you're no longer answering to the fans but your sponsors, you get very weird things going on. I mean, every finals is still a full house imagine if 5000 people show up and you charge 10 bucks each -- that's 50K, that's 1/10th of what it costs OSL to sponsor. Imagine if you did events for semi finals too. etc etc. the cost of sponsorships would be much less.
Imagine if PL finals charged 10 bucks. 30K people show up, that's 300K. That's 1/10th of what it costs to sponsor a Proleague (approximinately). Things like that. But Koreans really drove away from this model, which is a very scary thought in the end.
These are numbers that they can get CURRENTLY. But because Koreans fans now have the idea they will never pay for esports... well. There you go.
I am more than glad to pay 10 bucks for BW. Hell I am willing to put as much as 30 bucks to watch one full season of individual league or 20 bucks for PL. By the way I don`t even live in SK, all I want is some official stream and I`ll be already content. Why did the Koreans take this game for granted...
I think it's still not late if they are really in a pinch they could have open up a donation box with a title saying " You Love Bw ? We also do, but we need your help too, Please Donate to keep us around ^_^ " . If each person donates let say $10 a day and such I bet that fans are willing to go that far to help keep their scene . Although I don't mind paying to watch pro league .. still the donation method is one way bw scene can use it to fund proleague .
Do you understand how desperate that sounds? The SECOND you do that, you're guaranteeing that you will never get a sponsor again. You just have to find a way to monetize BW, and KeSPA never really looked into it too much. A lot of teams just think of it as "community service" =/ (in fact this is explicit for STX)
On April 08 2012 02:49 Milkis wrote: Also, one more thing I'd like to add.
The reason why the BW scene is collapsing is 100% because it's a sponsor based model. There are still a TON of BW fans. Imagine if Koreans paid for subscriptions, paid actual money to go to finals, etc. But the fans balked at this very idea immediately, which basically forced BW into the model it is today... very very sponsor based.
When you're no longer answering to the fans but your sponsors, you get very weird things going on. I mean, every finals is still a full house imagine if 5000 people show up and you charge 10 bucks each -- that's 50K, that's 1/10th of what it costs OSL to sponsor. Imagine if you did events for semi finals too. etc etc. the cost of sponsorships would be much less.
Imagine if PL finals charged 10 bucks. 30K people show up, that's 300K. That's 1/10th of what it costs to sponsor a Proleague (approximinately). Things like that. But Koreans really drove away from this model, which is a very scary thought in the end.
These are numbers that they can get CURRENTLY. But because Koreans fans now have the idea they will never pay for esports... well. There you go.
I am more than glad to pay 10 bucks for BW. Hell I am willing to put as much as 30 bucks to watch one full season of individual league or 20 bucks for PL. By the way I don`t even live in SK, all I want is some official stream and I`ll be already content. Why did the Koreans take this game for granted...
I think it's still not late if they are really in a pinch they could have open up a donation box with a title saying " You Love Bw ? We also do, but we need your help too, Please Donate to keep us around ^_^ " . If each person donates let say $10 a day and such I bet that fans are willing to go that far to help keep their scene . Although I don't mind paying to watch pro league .. still the donation method is one way bw scene can use it to fund proleague .
Do you think that the BW community could make some sort of petition and send it to Kespa (like saying that you are willing to pay for PL and then signing it)? I suggested this in a different thread, but people said it wouldn't work anyways ._.
Is Brawl trying to leech from the Melee playerbase? Are there Brawl players coming to the Melee forums and saying "I hope player x is coming to Brawl"? Are there Brawl players saying that Melee should die because Brawl is the new thing?
To you second point, even many SC2 players see that SC2 is boring or stale at the moment. Look at the reaction the FRB thread caused. Look how people, and most of them SC2 players are complaining over the UI two years in.
We BW players know better which potential SC2 could have had, and how Blizz fucked up.
I don't understand why it bothers you so much that SC2 fans want to see Flash, Jaedong, Bisu, Fantasy, etc. playing SC2. We've all seen how great these players are or at least heard about how good they are. Funnily enough I've heard more BW players say SC2 is going to die like BW is because it won't last against League, than I have seen SC2 players saying BW should die because its old.
I don't get what point you're trying to make with the UI thread. Sure, laddering on sc2 is lonely I guess, but that's a problem with Battle.Net 2.0 and not with Starcraft II gameplay. FRB thread? I don't know which one you're talking about, could you link it or give me the full name so I can find it?
I don't care if someone says something like "omg jaedong playing sc2", (well I do a bit if they are only saying that because he's famous and not because they've watched or followed his play but w/e) I care if try say crap like " can't wait for bw to die, move on already, etc". Fuck that shit And really? You must not have read a lot of these threads, it's pretty rampant on both sides
On April 08 2012 02:49 Milkis wrote: Also, one more thing I'd like to add.
The reason why the BW scene is collapsing is 100% because it's a sponsor based model. There are still a TON of BW fans. Imagine if Koreans paid for subscriptions, paid actual money to go to finals, etc. But the fans balked at this very idea immediately, which basically forced BW into the model it is today... very very sponsor based.
When you're no longer answering to the fans but your sponsors, you get very weird things going on. I mean, every finals is still a full house imagine if 5000 people show up and you charge 10 bucks each -- that's 50K, that's 1/10th of what it costs OSL to sponsor. Imagine if you did events for semi finals too. etc etc. the cost of sponsorships would be much less.
Imagine if PL finals charged 10 bucks. 30K people show up, that's 300K. That's 1/10th of what it costs to sponsor a Proleague (approximinately). Things like that. But Koreans really drove away from this model, which is a very scary thought in the end.
These are numbers that they can get CURRENTLY. But because Koreans fans now have the idea they will never pay for esports... well. There you go.
I am more than glad to pay 10 bucks for BW. Hell I am willing to put as much as 30 bucks to watch one full season of individual league or 20 bucks for PL. By the way I don`t even live in SK, all I want is some official stream and I`ll be already content. Why did the Koreans take this game for granted...
I think it's still not late if they are really in a pinch they could have open up a donation box with a title saying " You Love Bw ? We also do, but we need your help too, Please Donate to keep us around ^_^ " . If each person donates let say $10 a day and such I bet that fans are willing to go that far to help keep their scene . Although I don't mind paying to watch pro league .. still the donation method is one way bw scene can use it to fund proleague .
Do you understand how desperate that sounds? The SECOND you do that, you're guaranteeing that you will never get a sponsor again. You just have to find a way to monetize BW, and KeSPA never really looked into it too much. A lot of teams just think of it as "community service" =/ (in fact this is explicit for STX)
I think desperate times call for desperate measures and also by doing this it helps give a message to the loyal korean fans saying hey we always give you a good time when you come and watch the game . But a little bit of contribution would help us in the long run for more quality games and improvement of the scene. I don't see why sponsors will start retaliating and stop sponsoring bw .
On April 08 2012 02:49 Milkis wrote: Also, one more thing I'd like to add.
The reason why the BW scene is collapsing is 100% because it's a sponsor based model. There are still a TON of BW fans. Imagine if Koreans paid for subscriptions, paid actual money to go to finals, etc. But the fans balked at this very idea immediately, which basically forced BW into the model it is today... very very sponsor based.
When you're no longer answering to the fans but your sponsors, you get very weird things going on. I mean, every finals is still a full house imagine if 5000 people show up and you charge 10 bucks each -- that's 50K, that's 1/10th of what it costs OSL to sponsor. Imagine if you did events for semi finals too. etc etc. the cost of sponsorships would be much less.
Imagine if PL finals charged 10 bucks. 30K people show up, that's 300K. That's 1/10th of what it costs to sponsor a Proleague (approximinately). Things like that. But Koreans really drove away from this model, which is a very scary thought in the end.
These are numbers that they can get CURRENTLY. But because Koreans fans now have the idea they will never pay for esports... well. There you go.
I am more than glad to pay 10 bucks for BW. Hell I am willing to put as much as 30 bucks to watch one full season of individual league or 20 bucks for PL. By the way I don`t even live in SK, all I want is some official stream and I`ll be already content. Why did the Koreans take this game for granted...
I think it's still not late if they are really in a pinch they could have open up a donation box with a title saying " You Love Bw ? We also do, but we need your help too, Please Donate to keep us around ^_^ " . If each person donates let say $10 a day and such I bet that fans are willing to go that far to help keep their scene . Although I don't mind paying to watch pro league .. still the donation method is one way bw scene can use it to fund proleague .
Do you think that the BW community could make some sort of petition and send it to Kespa (like saying that you are willing to pay for PL and then signing it)? I suggested this in a different thread, but people said it wouldn't work anyways ._.
The last time I sign up for a petition to save mbc game but my efforts were all for nought because it didn't work and didn't even made a impact to stop higher execs from killing mbc game .
Is Brawl trying to leech from the Melee playerbase? Are there Brawl players coming to the Melee forums and saying "I hope player x is coming to Brawl"? Are there Brawl players saying that Melee should die because Brawl is the new thing?
To you second point, even many SC2 players see that SC2 is boring or stale at the moment. Look at the reaction the FRB thread caused. Look how people, and most of them SC2 players are complaining over the UI two years in.
We BW players know better which potential SC2 could have had, and how Blizz fucked up.
I don't understand why it bothers you so much that SC2 fans want to see Flash, Jaedong, Bisu, Fantasy, etc. playing SC2. We've all seen how great these players are or at least heard about how good they are.
"I can't wait until MKP, DRG, and Nestea switch to LoL. Just imagine all the crazy stuff they could do, microing their heroes with their 300 APM. I'm sure the game would look completely different. Sure, the game may not be all that great to watch now, but that's just because it's young and we don't have all of your gosu players. So if we kill SC2 now, cannibalize the corpse of its scene by taking all of its great players, teams, and sponsors, LoL may even some day be almost as fun to watch, possibly. Who cares that they're artisans of some other game that I've never watched or cared about and gets much less viewership anyway, but I heard some guy talk about how good they were this one time so I want to see how good they are in my game. Besides, everyone knows the transition is inevitable. For ESPORTS!"
Is Brawl trying to leech from the Melee playerbase? Are there Brawl players coming to the Melee forums and saying "I hope player x is coming to Brawl"? Are there Brawl players saying that Melee should die because Brawl is the new thing?
To you second point, even many SC2 players see that SC2 is boring or stale at the moment. Look at the reaction the FRB thread caused. Look how people, and most of them SC2 players are complaining over the UI two years in.
We BW players know better which potential SC2 could have had, and how Blizz fucked up.
I don't understand why it bothers you so much that SC2 fans want to see Flash, Jaedong, Bisu, Fantasy, etc. playing SC2. We've all seen how great these players are or at least heard about how good they are.
"I can't wait until MKP, DRG, and Nestea switch to LoL. Just imagine all the crazy stuff they could do, microing their heroes with their 300 APM. I'm sure the game would look completely different. Sure, the game may not be all that great to watch now, but that's just because it's young and we don't have all of your gosu players. So if we kill SC2 now, cannibalize the corpse of its scene by taking all of its great players, teams, and sponsors, LoL may even some day be almost as fun to watch, possibly. Who cares that they're artisans of some other game that I've never watched or cared about and gets much less viewership anyway, but I heard some guy talk about how good they were this one time so I want to see how good they are in my game. Besides, everyone knows the transition is inevitable. For ESPORTS!"
Did you hear anyone cry when Fruitdealer stopped playing SC2 to become a LoL coach? Most BW fans don't even care about the players, it's all about the fact that they play BW. If they don't play BW, fuck them, fuck ForGG, fuck MVP, fuck Zergbong, fuck Clare, fuck Iron, fuck Boxer, fuck Nada, fuck July, fuck B-teamers that started out in BW and are now flourishing in SC2. It doesn't matter that they play SC2 our of their free will because that makes them happy or earns them more money, or more international oppurtunities as a progamer. NO! Anyone that doesn't play BW and chooses to play another game instead is conflicting with my views on life and therefore evil and intent on destroying my beliefs!
On April 07 2012 20:33 Ribbon wrote: The more I read this thread, the angrier I get at Brood War's alleged fans.
This is, quite literally, Brood War's last chance. KeSPA is going to try to sell it to the foreign world. I don't know if it's to try to save BW by leaching off SC2's foreign scene and then re-split, or if this is the status quo, or if it's a transition, or if it's all just rumors and they're going alternating BW/LoL.
Why do I not see any attempt at going "Hey, we need to show our support for BW now".
Why don't I see any BW fans going "We need to use this as an opportunity to resell BW to the foreign world, because our game is superior and there's a bunch of people with money who don't know it".
For the first time ever, the people in charge of BW are looking to the foreign scene as a potential to make money. This is BW's last chance, and KeSPA is putting it in our hands. This is the time for BW fans to get all evangelical. To post about BW on their facebook walls. To talk about it at work (everyone at my job knows I'm the Starcraft guy!). To try to organize little get-togethers. To find a barcraft in their area and convince them to do a BW night. To do, basically, everything the SC2 fans did to make the game big that BW fans attribute to Blizzard's pushing SC2 as an esport in the west, which they fucking didn't. And then write KeSPA incessantly saying "Hey. We exist! Sell BW to us!"
But I don't see any of that.
I see people saying they intend to leave BW? A bunch of Newt Gingritches leaving their cancer-ridden spouses because supporting it now is too hard? I mean, holy shit, KeSPA might want people in the foreign scene to PAY to watch BW. Unthinkable, right?
That's why you're all fair-weather fans. You're leaving the minute things get too haaaaarrrrrd. You never really loved BW, if that's as deep as it goes. You just loved feeling superior. And now you'll abandon BW rather than see it's purity besmirched, as if Savior didn't leave that slut in a Vegas back ally.
(Pictured: the BW community)
For god's sake, Reach up and take some action in your lives. Start campaigning to save BW, start campaigning to spread BW awareness and just accept the 99 morons and keep the one guy you get out of a hundred. For the first time ever someone is making a big effort to attach BW to foreign money, and you are just completely pissing it away and acting smug about it.
1. A lot of potential sponsers probably don't like the sound of thier teams/investments not winning games because of some betting website. Good job sAviOr.
2. We see the writing on the wall, if Kespa gives up then it is over. It isn't even in our hands, remember estro? Yea good job blizzard. Seriously no one wants to sponser a game when the scene is constantly threatened by that stupid shit. Not to mention that a lot of the sponsors seem to only care about Korea.
3. Kespa has had issues with charging money for tickets in the past.
4. The Foriegn BW scene died because they could not compete with korea. Look at sc2, remember that period where MLG was more popular than GSL? Why? O yea because foreign sc2 fans prefer drama. I haven't followed sc2 recently but it is probably still the same. Have you even read crap about foreigners being banned by kespa? Ridiculous.
5. On that note all the "fair weathered fans" have already left and moved onto sc2. Do I really need to name names for you? All thats left are people who just like the game, and once again it doesn't matter how much support we show because of the aforementioned reasons,
6. Western ESPORTS is and has always been one of the biggest jokes ever. A lot tournaments have never paid out in the past and I suspect quite a few don't payout for sc2 either.
7. Have you ever even followed the sc2 community? They're all preaching to the choir, when was the last time you saw growth in sc2? (boost due to players just discovering streams don't count). A ladder anxiety thread is basically a bunch of sc2 players talking about courageous they are and how they are unique snowfalkes with an abnormally huge desire for self improvement. Give me a fkn break.
8.Some will leave because we've tried sc2 and don't like it. What sc2 fans need to understand is that aside from baneling marine all the micro videos they post don't really ellicit anything from someone who has seen BW. For me, the micro and strategic aspect of sc2 just has no beauty. This has been discussed to death already so we will just leave it at that.
The only reason I come here really is to look at the VODs and get links for streams. I really do not like this ESPORTS bullshit, I feel as if Blizzard using it to try and make people feel like they're part of something bigger instead of focusing on making a good game. Bowder is such a petty developer that he probably won't ever listen to any legit critic anyway.
DO YOU REALLY WANT CHAT CHANNELS????? If you want BW go play BW (paraphrased).
O yea you might want to read Sayle's old post re how they try to inject some life back into the scene. People just don't care, NOT because they're inferior/fear the great challenges of the superior RTS, BW just can't attract western fans at this point in time.
I gotta say... the attitude of some of the BW fans towards guys that are new to the game isn't helping the growth of the western scene either. If you just scan the surface of the community and dont go in very deep, you could think that the BW forums is a bunch of backwards, hate filled elitists that try to lock themselves from the reality. I know that it isn't that way (and the people that I'm playing BW with certainly aren't), but some of the posts in this thread are so agressive and hateful that it's just not funny anymore. I've often heard people arguing that they "don't care about SC2", but soon after, they get massively enraged and hate about a game the supposedly don't care about.
If we act everytime like this everytime someone new comes in, then the BW scene surely is doomed.
wow so much anger in that thread.. jesus no wonder all the newcomers get scared away from BW
Are we all reading the same thread? He gets advice, everyone seems just peachy and I don't see any anger here.
Read like the whole thread and you get sc2/bw people flaming each other or how terrible the other game is or how happy the other game is "dying". It's a mad mad thread
Is Brawl trying to leech from the Melee playerbase? Are there Brawl players coming to the Melee forums and saying "I hope player x is coming to Brawl"? Are there Brawl players saying that Melee should die because Brawl is the new thing?
To you second point, even many SC2 players see that SC2 is boring or stale at the moment. Look at the reaction the FRB thread caused. Look how people, and most of them SC2 players are complaining over the UI two years in.
We BW players know better which potential SC2 could have had, and how Blizz fucked up.
I don't understand why it bothers you so much that SC2 fans want to see Flash, Jaedong, Bisu, Fantasy, etc. playing SC2. We've all seen how great these players are or at least heard about how good they are.
"I can't wait until MKP, DRG, and Nestea switch to LoL. Just imagine all the crazy stuff they could do, microing their heroes with their 300 APM. I'm sure the game would look completely different. Sure, the game may not be all that great to watch now, but that's just because it's young and we don't have all of your gosu players. So if we kill SC2 now, cannibalize the corpse of its scene by taking all of its great players, teams, and sponsors, LoL may even some day be almost as fun to watch, possibly. Who cares that they're artisans of some other game that I've never watched or cared about and gets much less viewership anyway, but I heard some guy talk about how good they were this one time so I want to see how good they are in my game. Besides, everyone knows the transition is inevitable. For ESPORTS!"
this, basically. it's like waiting for your grandfather who you barely knew to die so that you can get his inheritance. from the perspective of a bw fan, hearing people wish so enthusiastically for our scene to die for your benefit is like having a mob of vultures hovering around every bw/sc2 thread crying "ESPORTS! ESPORTS!"
also, i always found it amusing that the sc2 scene can simultaneously drool at what bw progamers might do to sc2, and then go and spit at the elephant in the room thread.
EPT
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