On April 07 2012 20:33 Ribbon wrote: The more I read this thread, the angrier I get at Brood War's alleged fans.
This is, quite literally, Brood War's last chance. KeSPA is going to try to sell it to the foreign world. I don't know if it's to try to save BW by leaching off SC2's foreign scene and then re-split, or if this is the status quo, or if it's a transition, or if it's all just rumors and they're going alternating BW/LoL.
Why do I not see any attempt at going "Hey, we need to show our support for BW now".
Why don't I see any BW fans going "We need to use this as an opportunity to resell BW to the foreign world, because our game is superior and there's a bunch of people with money who don't know it".
For the first time ever, the people in charge of BW are looking to the foreign scene as a potential to make money. This is BW's last chance, and KeSPA is putting it in our hands. This is the time for BW fans to get all evangelical. To post about BW on their facebook walls. To talk about it at work (everyone at my job knows I'm the Starcraft guy!). To try to organize little get-togethers. To find a barcraft in their area and convince them to do a BW night. To do, basically, everything the SC2 fans did to make the game big that BW fans attribute to Blizzard's pushing SC2 as an esport in the west, which they fucking didn't. And then write KeSPA incessantly saying "Hey. We exist! Sell BW to us!"
But I don't see any of that.
I see people saying they intend to leave BW? A bunch of Newt Gingritches leaving their cancer-ridden spouses because supporting it now is too hard? I mean, holy shit, KeSPA might want people in the foreign scene to PAY to watch BW. Unthinkable, right?
That's why you're all fair-weather fans. You're leaving the minute things get too haaaaarrrrrd. You never really loved BW, if that's as deep as it goes. You just loved feeling superior. And now you'll abandon BW rather than see it's purity besmirched, as if Savior didn't leave that slut in a Vegas back ally.
(Pictured: the BW community)
For god's sake, Reach up and take some action in your lives. Start campaigning to save BW, start campaigning to spread BW awareness and just accept the 99 morons and keep the one guy you get out of a hundred. For the first time ever someone is making a big effort to attach BW to foreign money, and you are just completely pissing it away and acting smug about it.
1. A lot of potential sponsers probably don't like the sound of thier teams/investments not winning games because of some betting website. Good job sAviOr.
2. We see the writing on the wall, if Kespa gives up then it is over. It isn't even in our hands, remember estro? Yea good job blizzard. Seriously no one wants to sponser a game when the scene is constantly threatened by that stupid shit. Not to mention that a lot of the sponsors seem to only care about Korea.
3. Kespa has had issues with charging money for tickets in the past.
4. The Foriegn BW scene died because they could not compete with korea. Look at sc2, remember that period where MLG was more popular than GSL? Why? O yea because foreign sc2 fans prefer drama. I haven't followed sc2 recently but it is probably still the same. Have you even read crap about foreigners being banned by kespa? Ridiculous.
5. On that note all the "fair weathered fans" have already left and moved onto sc2. Do I really need to name names for you? All thats left are people who just like the game, and once again it doesn't matter how much support we show because of the aforementioned reasons,
6. Western ESPORTS is and has always been one of the biggest jokes ever. A lot tournaments have never paid out in the past and I suspect quite a few don't payout for sc2 either.
7. Have you ever even followed the sc2 community? They're all preaching to the choir, when was the last time you saw growth in sc2? (boost due to players just discovering streams don't count). A ladder anxiety thread is basically a bunch of sc2 players talking about courageous they are and how they are unique snowfalkes with an abnormally huge desire for self improvement. Give me a fkn break.
8.Some will leave because we've tried sc2 and don't like it. What sc2 fans need to understand is that aside from baneling marine all the micro videos they post don't really ellicit anything from someone who has seen BW. For me, the micro and strategic aspect of sc2 just has no beauty. This has been discussed to death already so we will just leave it at that.
The only reason I come here really is to look at the VODs and get links for streams. I really do not like this ESPORTS bullshit, I feel as if Blizzard using it to try and make people feel like they're part of something bigger instead of focusing on making a good game. Bowder is such a petty developer that he probably won't ever listen to any legit critic anyway.
DO YOU REALLY WANT CHAT CHANNELS????? If you want BW go play BW (paraphrased).
O yea you might want to read Sayle's old post re how they try to inject some life back into the scene. People just don't care, NOT because they're inferior/fear the great challenges of the superior RTS, BW just can't attract western fans at this point in time.
I gotta say... the attitude of some of the BW fans towards guys that are new to the game isn't helping the growth of the western scene either. If you just scan the surface of the community and dont go in very deep, you could think that the BW forums is a bunch of backwards, hate filled elitists that try to lock themselves from the reality. I know that it isn't that way (and the people that I'm playing BW with certainly aren't), but some of the posts in this thread are so agressive and hateful that it's just not funny anymore. I've often heard people arguing that they "don't care about SC2", but soon after, they get massively enraged and hate about a game the supposedly don't care about.
If we act everytime like this everytime someone new comes in, then the BW scene surely is doomed.
wow so much anger in that thread.. jesus no wonder all the newcomers get scared away from BW
Are we all reading the same thread? He gets advice, everyone seems just peachy and I don't see any anger here.
A Romanian!
On topic: We get angry because a lot of SC2 people make judgments about BW without really trying the game or knowing what's going on in the scene. Is that a bad thing? Maybe. I'd prefer that more BW fans keep a calm head and try to educate the newer fans more, but when that 1 good guy is followed by 10+ morons who take one look at it and get disgusted because of the graphics, it's kinda hard.
Most BW fans already tried SC2 and followed SC2 for a prolonged period of time (well I did, anyways) and came away utterly disappointed. Even if the game supposedly "improves" now, I don't think that that initial disappointment is going to go away from me.
On April 07 2012 20:33 Ribbon wrote: The more I read this thread, the angrier I get at Brood War's alleged fans.
This is, quite literally, Brood War's last chance. KeSPA is going to try to sell it to the foreign world. I don't know if it's to try to save BW by leaching off SC2's foreign scene and then re-split, or if this is the status quo, or if it's a transition, or if it's all just rumors and they're going alternating BW/LoL.
Why do I not see any attempt at going "Hey, we need to show our support for BW now".
Why don't I see any BW fans going "We need to use this as an opportunity to resell BW to the foreign world, because our game is superior and there's a bunch of people with money who don't know it".
For the first time ever, the people in charge of BW are looking to the foreign scene as a potential to make money. This is BW's last chance, and KeSPA is putting it in our hands. This is the time for BW fans to get all evangelical. To post about BW on their facebook walls. To talk about it at work (everyone at my job knows I'm the Starcraft guy!). To try to organize little get-togethers. To find a barcraft in their area and convince them to do a BW night. To do, basically, everything the SC2 fans did to make the game big that BW fans attribute to Blizzard's pushing SC2 as an esport in the west, which they fucking didn't. And then write KeSPA incessantly saying "Hey. We exist! Sell BW to us!"
But I don't see any of that.
I see people saying they intend to leave BW? A bunch of Newt Gingritches leaving their cancer-ridden spouses because supporting it now is too hard? I mean, holy shit, KeSPA might want people in the foreign scene to PAY to watch BW. Unthinkable, right?
That's why you're all fair-weather fans. You're leaving the minute things get too haaaaarrrrrd. You never really loved BW, if that's as deep as it goes. You just loved feeling superior. And now you'll abandon BW rather than see it's purity besmirched, as if Savior didn't leave that slut in a Vegas back ally.
For god's sake, Reach up and take some action in your lives. Start campaigning to save BW, start campaigning to spread BW awareness and just accept the 99 morons and keep the one guy you get out of a hundred. For the first time ever someone is making a big effort to attach BW to foreign money, and you are just completely pissing it away and acting smug about it.
1. A lot of potential sponsers probably don't like the sound of thier teams/investments not winning games because of some betting website. Good job sAviOr.
2. We see the writing on the wall, if Kespa gives up then it is over. It isn't even in our hands, remember estro? Yea good job blizzard. Seriously no one wants to sponser a game when the scene is constantly threatened by that stupid shit. Not to mention that a lot of the sponsors seem to only care about Korea.
3. Kespa has had issues with charging money for tickets in the past.
4. The Foriegn BW scene died because they could not compete with korea. Look at sc2, remember that period where MLG was more popular than GSL? Why? O yea because foreign sc2 fans prefer drama. I haven't followed sc2 recently but it is probably still the same. Have you even read crap about foreigners being banned by kespa? Ridiculous.
5. On that note all the "fair weathered fans" have already left and moved onto sc2. Do I really need to name names for you? All thats left are people who just like the game, and once again it doesn't matter how much support we show because of the aforementioned reasons,
6. Western ESPORTS is and has always been one of the biggest jokes ever. A lot tournaments have never paid out in the past and I suspect quite a few don't payout for sc2 either.
7. Have you ever even followed the sc2 community? They're all preaching to the choir, when was the last time you saw growth in sc2? (boost due to players just discovering streams don't count). A ladder anxiety thread is basically a bunch of sc2 players talking about courageous they are and how they are unique snowfalkes with an abnormally huge desire for self improvement. Give me a fkn break.
8.Some will leave because we've tried sc2 and don't like it. What sc2 fans need to understand is that aside from baneling marine all the micro videos they post don't really ellicit anything from someone who has seen BW. For me, the micro and strategic aspect of sc2 just has no beauty. This has been discussed to death already so we will just leave it at that.
The only reason I come here really is to look at the VODs and get links for streams. I really do not like this ESPORTS bullshit, I feel as if Blizzard using it to try and make people feel like they're part of something bigger instead of focusing on making a good game. Bowder is such a petty developer that he probably won't ever listen to any legit critic anyway.
DO YOU REALLY WANT CHAT CHANNELS????? If you want BW go play BW (paraphrased).
O yea you might want to read Sayle's old post re how they try to inject some life back into the scene. People just don't care, NOT because they're inferior/fear the great challenges of the superior RTS, BW just can't attract western fans at this point in time.
I gotta say... the attitude of some of the BW fans towards guys that are new to the game isn't helping the growth of the western scene either. If you just scan the surface of the community and dont go in very deep, you could think that the BW forums is a bunch of backwards, hate filled elitists that try to lock themselves from the reality. I know that it isn't that way (and the people that I'm playing BW with certainly aren't), but some of the posts in this thread are so agressive and hateful that it's just not funny anymore. I've often heard people arguing that they "don't care about SC2", but soon after, they get massively enraged and hate about a game the supposedly don't care about.
We wouldn't get pissed off if the shit-chucking apes that are SC2 posters would talk shit about BW in the SC2 forums instead of coming to the BW forum and telling BW fans to "Switch to SC2 or fuck off, that simple." I don't care about SC2, which is why I get pissed off when some asshat comes in here and tells me I'm a racist if I don't switch to SC2. (someone actually implied that a couple pages back.) I'm not mad that SC2 exists. Hell, I played it for five months, thought it was cool for a while, then got bored with it and quit.
I'm actually more turned off to the BW scene by the people here on this board and their attitudes in general than I am by BW's graphics. BW seems like an enjoyable game with alot of depth; on the other hand, the posters here and their phobia of other games reaching a more mainstream success than BW ever did (like sc2) does more to turn me off to the game than graphics ever could.
The BW board is full of assholes who think they're holier than thou, when the truth is that they're just mad that BW isn't popular anymore and is dying. That's the truth.
I don't know whether to laugh or pity the people who are so resistant to change that they point blank REFUSE to accept what's happening here. You people actually think this is being done to expose BW to the foreign scene? Lol no, this is being done to phase Brood War out of PL completely, and put Starcraft II, a game with a humongous worldwide fanbase, bigger playerbase, and more importantly a scene with a future in its place.
On April 08 2012 01:30 Lunareste wrote: I'm actually more turned off to the BW scene by the people here on this board and their attitudes in general than I am by BW's graphics. BW seems like an enjoyable game with alot of depth; on the other hand, the posters here and their phobia of other games reaching a more mainstream success than BW ever did (like sc2) does more to turn me off to the game than graphics ever could.
The BW board is full of assholes who think they're holier than thou, when the truth is that they're just mad that BW isn't popular anymore and is dying. That's the truth.
I don't know whether to laugh or pity the people who are so resistant to change that they point blank REFUSE to accept what's happening here. You people actually think this is being done to expose BW to the foreign scene? Lol no, this is being done to phase Brood War out of PL completely, and put Starcraft II, a game with a humongous worldwide fanbase, bigger playerbase, and more importantly a scene with a future in its place.
On April 08 2012 01:30 Lunareste wrote: I'm actually more turned off to the BW scene by the people here on this board and their attitudes in general than I am by BW's graphics. BW seems like an enjoyable game with alot of depth; on the other hand, the posters here and their phobia of other games reaching a more mainstream success than BW ever did (like sc2) does more to turn me off to the game than graphics ever could.
The BW board is full of assholes who think they're holier than thou, when the truth is that they're just mad that BW isn't popular anymore and is dying. That's the truth.
I don't know whether to laugh or pity the people who are so resistant to change that they point blank REFUSE to accept what's happening here. You people actually think this is being done to expose BW to the foreign scene? Lol no, this is being done to phase Brood War out of PL completely, and put Starcraft II, a game with a humongous worldwide fanbase, bigger playerbase, and more importantly a scene with a future in its place.
Imo its more funny that u Sc2 guys think the decline of BW is because of SC2 :D:D
On April 08 2012 01:30 Lunareste wrote: I'm actually more turned off to the BW scene by the people here on this board and their attitudes in general than I am by BW's graphics. BW seems like an enjoyable game with alot of depth; on the other hand, the posters here and their phobia of other games reaching a more mainstream success than BW ever did (like sc2) does more to turn me off to the game than graphics ever could.
The BW board is full of assholes who think they're holier than thou, when the truth is that they're just mad that BW isn't popular anymore and is dying. That's the truth.
I don't know whether to laugh or pity the people who are so resistant to change that they point blank REFUSE to accept what's happening here. You people actually think this is being done to expose BW to the foreign scene? Lol no, this is being done to phase Brood War out of PL completely, and put Starcraft II, a game with a humongous worldwide fanbase, bigger playerbase, and more importantly a scene with a future in its place.
Speaking as a BW fan:
I only resent one game in particular: SC2. Why? SC2 was supposed to be the spiritual successor to the game that I love and enjoy, BW. Emphasis on spiritual: I didn't want just BW with better graphics. I wanted something better than BW. Instead what I got was a game that was just... good. On an absolute scale, the game was great, but as the spiritual successor to BW, it failed miserably. I almost felt cheated by it. That initial feeling never went away. Even when attending Barcrafts and MLG Providence, I could not get that feeling out of my head. If I met SC2 first, I might have enjoyed it a lot more, but every time that feeling came up it just killed all the fun.\
And I'm not blind to what's happening. BW was slowly declining even before the match-fixing scandal. That scandal just made the process a whole lot faster. I don't care about E-sports or mainstream or anything like that. I just want to watch and play BW and other games that I enjoy playing. If that makes me an elitist and asshole, then so be it.
For the record, I enjoy LoL a lot. Playing and watching LoL made me a little more empathetic towards SC2 fans after seeing all the hate DotA fans pour on that game. At the end of the day, you watch and play the games you enjoy. I just get mad at some SC2 people because they haven't taken that proper time to try BW before bashing it when I have.
On April 08 2012 01:30 Lunareste wrote: I'm actually more turned off to the BW scene by the people here on this board and their attitudes in general than I am by BW's graphics. BW seems like an enjoyable game with alot of depth; on the other hand, the posters here and their phobia of other games reaching a more mainstream success than BW ever did (like sc2) does more to turn me off to the game than graphics ever could.
The BW board is full of assholes who think they're holier than thou, when the truth is that they're just mad that BW isn't popular anymore and is dying. That's the truth.
I don't know whether to laugh or pity the people who are so resistant to change that they point blank REFUSE to accept what's happening here. You people actually think this is being done to expose BW to the foreign scene? Lol no, this is being done to phase Brood War out of PL completely, and put Starcraft II, a game with a humongous worldwide fanbase, bigger playerbase, and more importantly a scene with a future in its place.
On April 08 2012 01:30 Lunareste wrote: I'm actually more turned off to the BW scene by the people here on this board and their attitudes in general than I am by BW's graphics. BW seems like an enjoyable game with alot of depth; on the other hand, the posters here and their phobia of other games reaching a more mainstream success than BW ever did (like sc2) does more to turn me off to the game than graphics ever could.
The BW board is full of assholes who think they're holier than thou, when the truth is that they're just mad that BW isn't popular anymore and is dying. That's the truth.
I don't know whether to laugh or pity the people who are so resistant to change that they point blank REFUSE to accept what's happening here. You people actually think this is being done to expose BW to the foreign scene? Lol no, this is being done to phase Brood War out of PL completely, and put Starcraft II, a game with a humongous worldwide fanbase, bigger playerbase, and more importantly a scene with a future in its place.
Speaking as a BW fan:
I only resent one game in particular: SC2. Why? SC2 was supposed to be the spiritual successor to the game that I love and enjoy, BW. Emphasis on spiritual: I didn't want just BW with better graphics. I wanted something better than BW. Instead what I got was a game that was just... good. On an absolute scale, the game was great, but as the spiritual successor to BW, it failed miserably. I almost felt cheated by it. That initial feeling never went away. Even when attending Barcrafts and MLG Providence, I could not get that feeling out of my head. If I met SC2 first, I might have enjoyed it a lot more, but every time that feeling came up it just killed all the fun.\
And I'm not blind to what's happening. BW was slowly declining even before the match-fixing scandal. That scandal just made the process a whole lot faster. I don't care about E-sports or mainstream or anything like that. I just want to watch and play BW and other games that I enjoy playing. If that makes me an elitist and asshole, then so be it.
For the record, I enjoy LoL a lot. Playing and watching LoL made me a little more empathetic towards SC2 fans after seeing all the hate DotA fans pour on that game. At the end of the day, you watch and play the games you enjoy. I just get mad at some SC2 people because they haven't taken that proper time to try BW before bashing it when I have.
On April 08 2012 01:30 Lunareste wrote: redundant statement
Tell that to Ribbon.
Quite frankly, I can pretty much say the same thing about few people out there who haven't tried SC2 fully and wants to bash the game based on only following the scene and watching few professional games.
On April 07 2012 20:33 Ribbon wrote: The more I read this thread, the angrier I get at Brood War's alleged fans.
This is, quite literally, Brood War's last chance. KeSPA is going to try to sell it to the foreign world. I don't know if it's to try to save BW by leaching off SC2's foreign scene and then re-split, or if this is the status quo, or if it's a transition, or if it's all just rumors and they're going alternating BW/LoL.
Why do I not see any attempt at going "Hey, we need to show our support for BW now".
Why don't I see any BW fans going "We need to use this as an opportunity to resell BW to the foreign world, because our game is superior and there's a bunch of people with money who don't know it".
For the first time ever, the people in charge of BW are looking to the foreign scene as a potential to make money. This is BW's last chance, and KeSPA is putting it in our hands. This is the time for BW fans to get all evangelical. To post about BW on their facebook walls. To talk about it at work (everyone at my job knows I'm the Starcraft guy!). To try to organize little get-togethers. To find a barcraft in their area and convince them to do a BW night. To do, basically, everything the SC2 fans did to make the game big that BW fans attribute to Blizzard's pushing SC2 as an esport in the west, which they fucking didn't. And then write KeSPA incessantly saying "Hey. We exist! Sell BW to us!"
But I don't see any of that.
I see people saying they intend to leave BW? A bunch of Newt Gingritches leaving their cancer-ridden spouses because supporting it now is too hard? I mean, holy shit, KeSPA might want people in the foreign scene to PAY to watch BW. Unthinkable, right?
That's why you're all fair-weather fans. You're leaving the minute things get too haaaaarrrrrd. You never really loved BW, if that's as deep as it goes. You just loved feeling superior. And now you'll abandon BW rather than see it's purity besmirched, as if Savior didn't leave that slut in a Vegas back ally.
For god's sake, Reach up and take some action in your lives. Start campaigning to save BW, start campaigning to spread BW awareness and just accept the 99 morons and keep the one guy you get out of a hundred. For the first time ever someone is making a big effort to attach BW to foreign money, and you are just completely pissing it away and acting smug about it.
1. A lot of potential sponsers probably don't like the sound of thier teams/investments not winning games because of some betting website. Good job sAviOr.
2. We see the writing on the wall, if Kespa gives up then it is over. It isn't even in our hands, remember estro? Yea good job blizzard. Seriously no one wants to sponser a game when the scene is constantly threatened by that stupid shit. Not to mention that a lot of the sponsors seem to only care about Korea.
3. Kespa has had issues with charging money for tickets in the past.
4. The Foriegn BW scene died because they could not compete with korea. Look at sc2, remember that period where MLG was more popular than GSL? Why? O yea because foreign sc2 fans prefer drama. I haven't followed sc2 recently but it is probably still the same. Have you even read crap about foreigners being banned by kespa? Ridiculous.
5. On that note all the "fair weathered fans" have already left and moved onto sc2. Do I really need to name names for you? All thats left are people who just like the game, and once again it doesn't matter how much support we show because of the aforementioned reasons,
6. Western ESPORTS is and has always been one of the biggest jokes ever. A lot tournaments have never paid out in the past and I suspect quite a few don't payout for sc2 either.
7. Have you ever even followed the sc2 community? They're all preaching to the choir, when was the last time you saw growth in sc2? (boost due to players just discovering streams don't count). A ladder anxiety thread is basically a bunch of sc2 players talking about courageous they are and how they are unique snowfalkes with an abnormally huge desire for self improvement. Give me a fkn break.
8.Some will leave because we've tried sc2 and don't like it. What sc2 fans need to understand is that aside from baneling marine all the micro videos they post don't really ellicit anything from someone who has seen BW. For me, the micro and strategic aspect of sc2 just has no beauty. This has been discussed to death already so we will just leave it at that.
The only reason I come here really is to look at the VODs and get links for streams. I really do not like this ESPORTS bullshit, I feel as if Blizzard using it to try and make people feel like they're part of something bigger instead of focusing on making a good game. Bowder is such a petty developer that he probably won't ever listen to any legit critic anyway.
DO YOU REALLY WANT CHAT CHANNELS????? If you want BW go play BW (paraphrased).
O yea you might want to read Sayle's old post re how they try to inject some life back into the scene. People just don't care, NOT because they're inferior/fear the great challenges of the superior RTS, BW just can't attract western fans at this point in time.
I gotta say... the attitude of some of the BW fans towards guys that are new to the game isn't helping the growth of the western scene either. If you just scan the surface of the community and dont go in very deep, you could think that the BW forums is a bunch of backwards, hate filled elitists that try to lock themselves from the reality. I know that it isn't that way (and the people that I'm playing BW with certainly aren't), but some of the posts in this thread are so agressive and hateful that it's just not funny anymore. I've often heard people arguing that they "don't care about SC2", but soon after, they get massively enraged and hate about a game the supposedly don't care about.
We wouldn't get pissed off if the shit-chucking apes that are SC2 posters would talk shit about BW in the SC2 forums instead of coming to the BW forum and telling BW fans to "Switch to SC2 or fuck off, that simple." I don't care about SC2, which is why I get pissed off when some asshat comes in here and tells me I'm a racist if I don't switch to SC2. (someone actually implied that a couple pages back.) I'm not mad that SC2 exists. Hell, I played it for five months, thought it was cool for a while, then got bored with it and quit.
Those people are trolls, and no matter how much they offend you, you shouldn't ever respond to them. It only makes things worse, because more often than not, the enraged person comes across like a total jerk.
On April 08 2012 01:30 Lunareste wrote: I'm actually more turned off to the BW scene by the people here on this board and their attitudes in general than I am by BW's graphics. BW seems like an enjoyable game with alot of depth; on the other hand, the posters here and their phobia of other games reaching a more mainstream success than BW ever did (like sc2) does more to turn me off to the game than graphics ever could.
The BW board is full of assholes who think they're holier than thou, when the truth is that they're just mad that BW isn't popular anymore and is dying. That's the truth.
I don't know whether to laugh or pity the people who are so resistant to change that they point blank REFUSE to accept what's happening here. You people actually think this is being done to expose BW to the foreign scene? Lol no, this is being done to phase Brood War out of PL completely, and put Starcraft II, a game with a humongous worldwide fanbase, bigger playerbase, and more importantly a scene with a future in its place.
Speaking as a BW fan:
I only resent one game in particular: SC2. Why? SC2 was supposed to be the spiritual successor to the game that I love and enjoy, BW. Emphasis on spiritual: I didn't want just BW with better graphics. I wanted something better than BW. Instead what I got was a game that was just... good. On an absolute scale, the game was great, but as the spiritual successor to BW, it failed miserably. I almost felt cheated by it. That initial feeling never went away. Even when attending Barcrafts and MLG Providence, I could not get that feeling out of my head. If I met SC2 first, I might have enjoyed it a lot more, but every time that feeling came up it just killed all the fun.\
And I'm not blind to what's happening. BW was slowly declining even before the match-fixing scandal. That scandal just made the process a whole lot faster. I don't care about E-sports or mainstream or anything like that. I just want to watch and play BW and other games that I enjoy playing. If that makes me an elitist and asshole, then so be it.
For the record, I enjoy LoL a lot. Playing and watching LoL made me a little more empathetic towards SC2 fans after seeing all the hate DotA fans pour on that game. At the end of the day, you watch and play the games you enjoy. I just get mad at some SC2 people because they haven't taken that proper time to try BW before bashing it when I have.
On April 08 2012 01:36 Xiphos wrote:
On April 08 2012 01:30 Lunareste wrote: redundant statement
Tell that to Ribbon.
Quite frankly, I can pretty much say the same thing about few people out there who haven't tried SC2 fully and wants to bash the game based on only following the scene and watching few professional games.
It works both ways, actually.
Which is why I limited the scope of my statement to only myself. Sure, there are those who just bash SC2 based on what they hear.
On April 08 2012 01:30 Lunareste wrote: I'm actually more turned off to the BW scene by the people here on this board and their attitudes in general than I am by BW's graphics. BW seems like an enjoyable game with alot of depth; on the other hand, the posters here and their phobia of other games reaching a more mainstream success than BW ever did (like sc2) does more to turn me off to the game than graphics ever could.
The BW board is full of assholes who think they're holier than thou, when the truth is that they're just mad that BW isn't popular anymore and is dying. That's the truth.
I don't know whether to laugh or pity the people who are so resistant to change that they point blank REFUSE to accept what's happening here. You people actually think this is being done to expose BW to the foreign scene? Lol no, this is being done to phase Brood War out of PL completely, and put Starcraft II, a game with a humongous worldwide fanbase, bigger playerbase, and more importantly a scene with a future in its place.
Imo its more funny that u Sc2 guys think the decline of BW is because of SC2 :D:D
You're right in a way, SC2 has nothing to do with BW's downfall. It's not because of SC2, match fixing, kespa, sponsors. It's because people don't watch anymore. BW is 12 years old and can't entertain the casual audiences (aka most viewers) any longer.
Hardcore BW fans are just using SC2 as a scapegoat because of their frustration with BW dying, but in reality it would be in the same position if SC2 was never released at all. In fact, SC2 might be the only thing that is helping BW at the moment with it's extra viewership and increased Proleague/ team sponsorship incentive.
BW hasn't become worse as a game but it simply isn't marketable.
On April 08 2012 01:30 Lunareste wrote: I'm actually more turned off to the BW scene by the people here on this board and their attitudes in general than I am by BW's graphics. BW seems like an enjoyable game with alot of depth; on the other hand, the posters here and their phobia of other games reaching a more mainstream success than BW ever did (like sc2) does more to turn me off to the game than graphics ever could.
The BW board is full of assholes who think they're holier than thou, when the truth is that they're just mad that BW isn't popular anymore and is dying. That's the truth.
I don't know whether to laugh or pity the people who are so resistant to change that they point blank REFUSE to accept what's happening here. You people actually think this is being done to expose BW to the foreign scene? Lol no, this is being done to phase Brood War out of PL completely, and put Starcraft II, a game with a humongous worldwide fanbase, bigger playerbase, and more importantly a scene with a future in its place.
Speaking as a BW fan:
I only resent one game in particular: SC2. Why? SC2 was supposed to be the spiritual successor to the game that I love and enjoy, BW. Emphasis on spiritual: I didn't want just BW with better graphics. I wanted something better than BW. Instead what I got was a game that was just... good. On an absolute scale, the game was great, but as the spiritual successor to BW, it failed miserably. I almost felt cheated by it. That initial feeling never went away. Even when attending Barcrafts and MLG Providence, I could not get that feeling out of my head. If I met SC2 first, I might have enjoyed it a lot more, but every time that feeling came up it just killed all the fun.\
And I'm not blind to what's happening. BW was slowly declining even before the match-fixing scandal. That scandal just made the process a whole lot faster. I don't care about E-sports or mainstream or anything like that. I just want to watch and play BW and other games that I enjoy playing. If that makes me an elitist and asshole, then so be it.
For the record, I enjoy LoL a lot. Playing and watching LoL made me a little more empathetic towards SC2 fans after seeing all the hate DotA fans pour on that game. At the end of the day, you watch and play the games you enjoy. I just get mad at some SC2 people because they haven't taken that proper time to try BW before bashing it when I have.
On April 08 2012 01:30 Lunareste wrote: redundant statement
Tell that to Ribbon.
I can definitely understand what you mean. I used to play Super Smash Bros. Melee REALLY competitively, used to travel inter-state just to attend different tournaments and I loved the game, its competitiveness, its culture, and everything about it.
We all had high hopes for Smash Bros. Brawl and it was, in the main, a humongous disappointment for me. Most of the things that made the game what it was competitively had been completely removed, pushback cancels removed, movement limited, directional influence and character weight drastically shifted, the game slowed down to such an extreme level that I actually felt disappointed at Nintendo for making such a "casual" game.
That does not mean, however, that I sat around and bashed the game all day and proclaim Melee to be superior in every aspect to people who really enjoy Brawl. I understand that they're both "Super Smash Bros." games and they will certainly have similarities, but in the end they are different games. From my understanding Brawl has gone on to maintaining an extreme popularity with some of my old Melee peers and a completely new generation of gamers who enjoy playing it competitively and casually.
Now, to my point. I get that you don't like SC2 for whatever reason, I get that it's not what you were looking for. Enjoying and playing your game (BW) is great, and that doesn't make you an asshole or an elitist.
What DOES make a person an asshole or elitist though, is sitting around and acting like SC2 is going to die like BW is. Sitting around and bashing SC2 all day is EXACTLY what I think makes the BW community assholes.
The worst part though, is that so many BW players judged SC2 by what it was when the game debuted. I've seen some people refusing to acknowledge that the game is developing and becoming far more complex than it was a year and a half ago, going so far as to say that it has no depth. I went back and rewatched the first GOM sc2 tournaments and the gameplay really was laughably bad, but that isn't to say that it is now. I mean, if I took that ridiculous point of view and backward logic I could sit around and say that BW is far worse than any other competitive online game by refusing to acknowledge that the gameplay, skill of the players, and overall knowledge of the game has not evolved from the time Boxer reigned to now, in the middle of Flash's reign.
The BW board is full of assholes who think they're holier than thou, when the truth is that they're just mad that BW isn't popular anymore and is dying. That's the truth.
BW is still very popular. People are mad that BW has met an unnatural death due to its sequel + IP rights + match fixing, whatever.
Dunno I've been telling everyone this has been happening for a long time but no one believed me~
On April 08 2012 01:30 Lunareste wrote: I'm actually more turned off to the BW scene by the people here on this board and their attitudes in general than I am by BW's graphics. BW seems like an enjoyable game with alot of depth; on the other hand, the posters here and their phobia of other games reaching a more mainstream success than BW ever did (like sc2) does more to turn me off to the game than graphics ever could.
The BW board is full of assholes who think they're holier than thou, when the truth is that they're just mad that BW isn't popular anymore and is dying. That's the truth.
I don't know whether to laugh or pity the people who are so resistant to change that they point blank REFUSE to accept what's happening here. You people actually think this is being done to expose BW to the foreign scene? Lol no, this is being done to phase Brood War out of PL completely, and put Starcraft II, a game with a humongous worldwide fanbase, bigger playerbase, and more importantly a scene with a future in its place.
Speaking as a BW fan:
I only resent one game in particular: SC2. Why? SC2 was supposed to be the spiritual successor to the game that I love and enjoy, BW. Emphasis on spiritual: I didn't want just BW with better graphics. I wanted something better than BW. Instead what I got was a game that was just... good. On an absolute scale, the game was great, but as the spiritual successor to BW, it failed miserably. I almost felt cheated by it. That initial feeling never went away. Even when attending Barcrafts and MLG Providence, I could not get that feeling out of my head. If I met SC2 first, I might have enjoyed it a lot more, but every time that feeling came up it just killed all the fun.\
And I'm not blind to what's happening. BW was slowly declining even before the match-fixing scandal. That scandal just made the process a whole lot faster. I don't care about E-sports or mainstream or anything like that. I just want to watch and play BW and other games that I enjoy playing. If that makes me an elitist and asshole, then so be it.
For the record, I enjoy LoL a lot. Playing and watching LoL made me a little more empathetic towards SC2 fans after seeing all the hate DotA fans pour on that game. At the end of the day, you watch and play the games you enjoy. I just get mad at some SC2 people because they haven't taken that proper time to try BW before bashing it when I have.
On April 08 2012 01:36 Xiphos wrote:
On April 08 2012 01:30 Lunareste wrote: redundant statement
Tell that to Ribbon.
I can definitely understand what you mean. I used to play Super Smash Bros. Melee REALLY competitively, used to travel inter-state just to attend different tournaments and I loved the game, its competitiveness, its culture, and everything about it.
We all had high hopes for Smash Bros. Brawl and it was, in the main, a humongous disappointment for me. Most of the things that made the game what it was competitively had been completely removed, pushback cancels removed, movement limited, directional influence and character weight drastically shifted, the game slowed down to such an extreme level that I actually felt disappointed at Nintendo for making such a "casual" game.
That does not mean, however, that I sat around and bashed the game all day and proclaim Melee to be superior in every aspect to people who really enjoy Brawl. I understand that they're both "Super Smash Bros." games and they will certainly have similarities, but in the end they are different games. From my understanding Brawl has gone on to maintaining an extreme popularity with some of my old Melee peers and a completely new generation of gamers who enjoy playing it competitively and casually.
Now, to my point. I get that you don't like SC2 for whatever reason, I get that it's not what you were looking for. Enjoying and playing your game (BW) is great, and that doesn't make you an asshole or an elitist.
What DOES make a person an asshole or elitist though, is sitting around and acting like SC2 is going to die like BW is. Sitting around and bashing SC2 all day is EXACTLY what I think makes the BW community assholes.
The worst part though, is that so many BW players judged SC2 by what it was when the game debuted. I've seen some people refusing to acknowledge that the game is developing and becoming far more complex than it was a year and a half ago, going so far as to say that it has no depth. I went back and rewatched the first GOM sc2 tournaments and the gameplay really was laughably bad, but that isn't to say that it is now. I mean, if I took that ridiculous point of view and backward logic I could sit around and say that BW is far worse than any other competitive online game by refusing to acknowledge that the gameplay, skill of the players, and overall knowledge of the game has not evolved from the time Boxer reigned to now, in the middle of Flash's reign.
Is Brawl trying to leech from the Melee playerbase? Are there Brawl players coming to the Melee forums and saying "I hope player x is coming to Brawl"? Are there Brawl players saying that Melee should die because Brawl is the new thing?
To you second point, even many SC2 players see that SC2 is boring or stale at the moment. Look at the reaction the FRB thread caused. Look how people, and most of them SC2 players are complaining over the UI two years in.
We BW players know better which potential SC2 could have had, and how Blizz fucked up.
Yeah. This is the first time that people have played an RTS for as long as BW and gotten so good and then switched to another game. We can't say based on anything in the past that the level of play should be higher in SC2 than it is, because of how good players were at BW before switching, so we can't say if the game or the players are to blame for any lack of good play. Skills have been set back more than people expected, but I'm not sure if that's because SC2 is bad or because it's just more different than BW (also WC3 or whatever other game,) so players really started out pretty bad at it.
What I mean is, it seems impossible to predict how good or bad SC2 will be in the future at this time, because it may still be very much in it's infancy, and players are taking longer to get good than expected. Also maps and game design is taking longer to get good than expected, perhaps. Blizzard has proven to be super slow at doing things, so maybe with enough time they the game could end up as good as people hoped.
It's sad if BW dies when SC2 is as lacking as it is, whether or not it will get better in the future, by the means of players or designers. I have faith SC2 will get better, and I'm willing to stick out the wait, or even do my part to make it happen, but I don't expect everyone to agree. It's faith, not really based in anything solid, and I can't convince people to believe the same. But I like SC2, and I'm having a good time complaining about how bad it is, and will continue to do so until it gets fixed. And I'll gladly watch BW sometimes as long as it's around, as well, and I hope it stays for as long as possible.
The BW board is full of assholes who think they're holier than thou, when the truth is that they're just mad that BW isn't popular anymore and is dying. That's the truth.
BW is still very popular. People are mad that BW has met an unnatural death due to its sequel + IP rights + match fixing, whatever.
Dunno I've been telling everyone this has been happening for a long time but no one believed me~
People knew that it was going to happen/has been happening.
The BW board is full of assholes who think they're holier than thou, when the truth is that they're just mad that BW isn't popular anymore and is dying. That's the truth.
BW is still very popular. People are mad that BW has met an unnatural death due to its sequel + IP rights + match fixing, whatever.
Dunno I've been telling everyone this has been happening for a long time but no one believed me~
I believed. It's just so hard to say good bye T_T.
The reason why the BW scene is collapsing is 100% because it's a sponsor based model. There are still a TON of BW fans. Imagine if Koreans paid for subscriptions, paid actual money to go to finals, etc. But the fans balked at this very idea immediately, which basically forced BW into the model it is today... very very sponsor based.
When you're no longer answering to the fans but your sponsors, you get very weird things going on. I mean, every finals is still a full house imagine if 5000 people show up and you charge 10 bucks each -- that's 50K, that's 1/10th of what it costs OSL to sponsor. Imagine if you did events for semi finals too. etc etc. the cost of sponsorships would be much less.
Imagine if PL finals charged 10 bucks. 30K people show up, that's 300K. That's 1/10th of what it costs to sponsor a Proleague (approximinately). Things like that. But Koreans really drove away from this model, which is a very scary thought in the end.
These are numbers that they can get CURRENTLY. But because Koreans fans now have the idea they will never pay for esports... well. There you go.
The BW board is full of assholes who think they're holier than thou, when the truth is that they're just mad that BW isn't popular anymore and is dying. That's the truth.
BW is still very popular. People are mad that BW has met an unnatural death due to its sequel + IP rights + match fixing, whatever.
Dunno I've been telling everyone this has been happening for a long time but no one believed me~
Nah, as I said before, most people knew it was happening. It's just that the way you packaged the "news" was so annoying that they didn't want to openly side with you. And why are you still hung up about this? Move on.
EPT
