EPTAI script - Page 3
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Rekrul
Korea (South)17174 Posts
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hasuwar
7365 Posts
 my dreams of AI are shattered | ||
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Ion)Positive
Morocco1389 Posts
I'd say I have um.. well.. I'm 'experianced' in C++ I guess. Havn't made much game wise, however.. Lots of MUD's, but nothing really great. I know Java.. Do you have msn/icq? That'd simplify things.. | ||
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x[ReaPeR]x
United States3447 Posts
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hasuwar
7365 Posts
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hasuwar
7365 Posts
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Bill307
Canada9103 Posts
So realistically, unless you hack Starcraft.exe, it is impossible to make a challenging AI opponent for 1v1. | ||
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hasuwar
7365 Posts
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Excalibur_Z
United States12240 Posts
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x[ReaPeR]x
United States3447 Posts
T(comp) vs T : Impossible, period. Tvt is all about positioning and super micro, things the computer cannot do. T(comp) vs Z : This, I belive can acctually be done. Building placement for TvZ is part of the equation but not completely necessary. And the kind of micro needed for TvZ, which is mainly kepping armies together and placing Irradiate right, are things the computer can do perfectly. T(comp) vs P : Like TvT, this impossible, comps cannot push, period. And alternative would be to make it use m&m but it's too much of a specialty stratgy. And it's almost never used. Z(comp) vs T : This can mostly be done. A couple key manuvers, like Muta harras can't be done by a computer. But the masses of units the comp needs to use late game and basic hatch placement can all be done by the comp. One of the neat bonuses is that the comps Defiler micro is VERY GOOD. Z(comp) vs Z : I don't honestly know about this. The units builds and what not a pretty basic but when it comes to using the same amount of units as your opponent and winning I'm pretty sure the computer doesn't have the micro to do it. Z(comp) vs P : I THINK this can be done. But I don't know this matchup very well. In theory unless this needs drops to work this matchup can be done with a comp. P(comp) vs T : This mainly comes down to masses of units attacking a push. Something the comp does and doesn't excell at. It can control the whole group collectivly but can't micro it very well. However its storm wouldn't be that bad. P(comp) vs Z : Not sure, I never play this (being a Terran player), so I am not sure if it can be done. P(comp) vs P : The comps overall units control is almost sutible for this. But it can't carry Reavers in shuttles, for example. Overall heres how I would divide the matches in feasibility. T(comp)@T: No T(comp)@Z: Probably T(comp)@P: No Z(comp)@T: Yes Z(comp)@Z: Unprobable Z(comp)@P: Maybe P(comp)@T: Probably P(comp)@Z: Maybe P(comp)@P: Unprobable Overall I think it can be worth it depending on ur situation and race u play. For instance Blackman's internet connection was a peice of shit, he was an excellent programmer, and all the matchups involving Zerg (his race) were at the very least feasible with a computer. You can decide wther or not it is worth it. What I am hoping for is that a group of people who are really into it will make what can be done and post it on the internet for all to download. Peace Out. | ||
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Holorin
France227 Posts
ai are quite adaptatives, or at least they wont do everything the same way for exemple the 6 zergling rush Funny to notice that T will choose between nuke or BC but not both (never) Ai can be very effective, just note how a godly reflex of feedback clears 3 templars to see what being a computer means ^_^ Get a massively casting protoss ai and it will a pain to counter -get templars -get dark archons -get sairs -get arbiters -get obs as for exemple the mass queen strat the computer uses sometimes (F**ucking anoyance when all your scv die .. no ?) | ||
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paper
13196 Posts
On April 13 2003 05:00 Casper... wrote: bw is about 1/100000th the game chess is. I doubt it. Chess has 6 pieces. Starcraft has 15 units per race. Chess is limited to a 8x8 board, whereas SC's map ranges from 64x64 to 256x256, and even though some units take up more space than others, that's still a huge map. Chess is turn-based. SC is real time strat. SC has many, many more factors than chess has; more factors = more complex ;s | ||
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pirate cod
810 Posts
On April 18 2005 16:07 ryuGie wrote: I doubt it. Chess has 6 pieces. Starcraft has 15 units per race. Chess is limited to a 8x8 board, whereas SC's map ranges from 64x64 to 256x256, and even though some units take up more space than others, that's still a huge map. Chess is turn-based. SC is real time strat. SC has many, many more factors than chess has; more factors = more complex ;s And yet, in BW there are only a limited amount of VIABLE strategies at a professional level, while in Chess it's virtually infinite. | ||
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hasuwar
7365 Posts
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Wizzra
Netherlands514 Posts
Nearly all the posts above are total nonsense. Especially the comparisons between BW and chess. The most important difference that everyone seems to overlook is that in chess each situation can be computed from the start, because the whole situation is known to both players, whereas in broodwar there is always some randomness. The Deep Blue computers have huge databases with played games and situations, which would be useless for starcraft because you don't know the situation you're in. Secondly, the way AI works in current games is by cheating. So imitating a players behaviour is extremely hard, or else the programmers would've created it differently in the first place. Another problem, is that players will in time always (ab)use aspects of the game that the programmers hadn't thought, resulting in superiour tactics. Then you also have the real-time aspect. Deep Blue has lots of times to see through its database and compute the 'best' move for a given situation. Which it doesn't have in Broodwar. Many decisions need to be made in a second. | ||
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Wizzra
Netherlands514 Posts
This would require loads of time, but it would improve the level of gaming ;D Kinda like an aimbot for a FPS. | ||
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Schnake
Germany2819 Posts
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superpenguin
France199 Posts
On April 11 2003 23:27 Ion)Positive wrote: Acutally, its far from impossible.. Deep Blue is MUCH more complexe then AI in Star Craft.. Deep Blue is for chess, and chess players converted to star craft would own boxer with 2 fingers.. Chess master's have been playing for like 40 years.. Star Craft AI WAS written by Black Man to be nearly at Boxer's level. The micro was not up to par with boxer, but it did do basic mavourvers. And storming, cloning units, spliting workers, expanding only when safe, ect. This infos cant be accurate technicaly. There are 2 possible way to program some ai for SC : AI scripts Change the ai by using a particular editor, you put some commands in a text file, and after they are processed, bw can use them - easy to learn, easy to start geting something working, you can start with blizzard AI scripts so you have by default the same level than blizzard - like what is done in the bwai project, you can do much better than blizzard. - you can define BO (+ order expand) and what units are produced depending on : the timing, the closest enemy race, the fact the map is island or not, your mineral count, the fact the enemy has at least 1 unit/building of a particular type - you can use the give_money command to cheat and pretend that the computer has a "god" eco. - you cant do anything else on the output : you cant give any specific commands to the units, you give hints to the ai about what you want him to do and the ai do whatever he wants with that. The list of hints you can give him is very very limited - you cant get anything else on the input : you cant "see" anything for the game, if the enemy is making 50 vultures and 1 goliath or 1 vulture and 50 goliath, you cant know that, it's the most frustrating, you cant counter the enemy build. - as a result of the 2 previous : you cant change the micro, you cant change the strategy except randomly or based on incomplete knowledge - it will allways maphack - It will never act like a real player - It will never be become as good as the average C6 player on wgtour/tlt/pgtour (except by abusing the give_money and making 4 baracks at the first second of the game or any thing else with give_money), just because it cant be anything except simple. modifying starcraft.exe in memory It would works like any 3rd party program - you could give the same command as the player, the actions you see in bwchart, but you have to give them 1 by 1 - you could read anything that a normal player would read, and even more (by default, all the map, but if you are good you could make a non maphacking IA) - you could control anything, and i could imagine crazy micro, like the 3 marines that are kicking lurckers without loosing 1 hp in the Pimpest Plays 2004, or everytime a reaver fire on a zerg unit, the computer burrow instantly only the targeted unit (would be too cheatingly good) - it could have any APM you want him to have... it could move 200 zerglings at the same time without hotkeys, lock 20 BC with 20 ghosts, and no need to clone, it can clic all at the same time, it could detect any nuke red dot at the first second it apears on the screen... while still having perfect timings on it's bo & the rest of the eco - there is no public project about that, it doesnt exists - input / output is illimited but you have to program everything yoruself - it's very hard just to make a program to move the drones to the mineral patchs... anything else would be 3x to 100x harder to program - if you do a programming mistake, the game crash either instantly, randomly, or in any way that could be hard to detect - while microing you as an human have some "fleelings" about what to do, you can guess if a zerg is going for muta or lurcker on some particular conditions that are hard to describe and almost impossible to write in a computer program - if it existed, it will never be as good as a C6 player, just because it would be too complicated i can sum up that by saying : - ai scripts are like programming a chess game without beeing able to move your king and knowing where the enemy one is. - ai memory programming is like programming a chess game played by a robot that must maniplate the pawns of random and different size with an electric arm. | ||
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rel
Guam3521 Posts
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dronebabo
10866 Posts
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