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On October 20 2011 11:22 Masil wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 10:10 Philo wrote:On October 20 2011 09:54 Ribbon wrote:On October 20 2011 09:49 Philo wrote:On October 20 2011 09:42 Ribbon wrote:On October 20 2011 09:41 jidolboy wrote:On October 20 2011 09:37 PraetorialGamer wrote:
I have no idea why this is being made into a SC2 vs BW thread. BW and SC2 should be afforded equal respect, they have both assissted in the growth of ESPORTS, and neither is better or more watchable or popular. Unfortunately it happens when BW related news gets posted on community news -.- This isn't BW news at all. It's KeSPA trying to cannibalize the SC2 scene. It's KeSPA trying to keep ESPORTS alive in the future. The SC2 Koreans have been wishing for this since release. If KeSPA can make it happen more power to them. If BW teams will support their players in SC2 and KeSPA will get it broadcast, then the ideal situation for Korean players is reached. Even if Koreans end up not being able to go to tourneys not sponsored by Blizzard or maybe GOM. Dealing a huge blow to IPL, MLG, NASL (kinda) and the foreign SC2 scene in general is not what the Koreans want, and it's not good for "e-sports". GOM has been way way better for foreign AND Korean SC2 than KeSPA would ever be. If KeSPA takes over Korean SC2, what happens to Liquid'Hero? FnaticRain? Do they not get to play in Korea because they're not on a "licensed" team? GSL's not going anywhere. GOMTV's not suddenly going to roll over and be KeSPA's bitch when they've got such a firm history with Blizzard and Its not fucking likely that a foreign team or its players would ever be allowed (or able) to play in Proleague anyways. Fact is that Korean SC2 players still don't make shit and what little betterment of their situation they've had is mostly due to GOM not foreign tournaments. As long as MLG and other foreign tournaments continue to talk to GOM, Koreans will make it to those events. Meanwhile, KeSPA events will give them sponsorship opportunities, so teams like ZeNEX can afford to hold onto their players. That's what I really hope so too. But I don't think it's positive news for both side BW and SC2. Because regarding to the history of KeSPA, what they did against GomTV Classic, etc. They would not like to share any profits with any other competitors, especially like GOM. This news is the hint that KeSPA may try to absorb Korean SC2 scene what GOM and other teams created and change into their own way. According to some rumors in South Korea e-sports community, KeSPA will introduce SC2 at the middle of the 2011-2012 season, the match would be like 1set in BW, 2set in SC2, etc. And KeSPA will not allow players who plays GSL as long as they didn't join KeSPA-based pro team. And they've been thinking that BW players will eventually play SC2 at the higher level than GSL players overall. When that time comes, KeSPA will shut down GSL and kick GOM out of the Korean e-sports scene. Believe or not, I'm just making a point that there is a super-bad blood between those two. I can mention a clear fact that you could see this at IeSF 2011 recently, they didn't even contact GOM or any SC2 teams for requesting the Korean representative of SC2, even if there are some players who are available to play competitively. Also, about some of the Article about Korea e-sports, you could see that some media spoke Korean SC2 scene as "failed business" and it is said that KeSPA will make SC2 successfully not like GSL. Even though, Blizzard and KeSPA are having a good mood recently. That doesn't mean, KeSPA and GOM will have the same. We should think and watch carefully. And I'm still wondering about the 8th Pro-team (they called it "Dream-team") what they mentioned last month more than this.
not 2 flame u but can u look up stuff before u post about it? "what they did to GomTV Classic"
y Kespa evil did so much wrong there fuck them.
User was temp banned for this post.
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No thanks, I'd just like Broodwar for proleauge
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Dont really like the direction this is going but thats just my opinion on this.
Historically kespa has shown that it wants to monopolize the esports industry in korea like what happened to GOM during that gom classic debacle. The only reason it didn't do this when SC2 came about was because of its legal battle with blizzard. And to me GOM has been doing a way better job in appealing to foreign fans than kespa. Getting tasteless to commentate in english during the GOM classic years, and now in SC2 they're fostering good relationships with the foreign community through the MLG exchange program, and getting foreign teams to compete in the GSTL. This is certainly how I believe the SC scene should be and i don't believe this is how kespa/ogn/mbc (if theyre still around) will do things once they incorporate SC2. they just don't seem to want/need to engage foreign fans as much as GOM.
But of course I might be wrong and they'll follow the same business strategy as GOM's, but till then i'm skeptical.
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On October 20 2011 11:26 rasers wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 11:22 Masil wrote:On October 20 2011 10:10 Philo wrote:On October 20 2011 09:54 Ribbon wrote:On October 20 2011 09:49 Philo wrote:On October 20 2011 09:42 Ribbon wrote:On October 20 2011 09:41 jidolboy wrote:On October 20 2011 09:37 PraetorialGamer wrote:
I have no idea why this is being made into a SC2 vs BW thread. BW and SC2 should be afforded equal respect, they have both assissted in the growth of ESPORTS, and neither is better or more watchable or popular. Unfortunately it happens when BW related news gets posted on community news -.- This isn't BW news at all. It's KeSPA trying to cannibalize the SC2 scene. It's KeSPA trying to keep ESPORTS alive in the future. The SC2 Koreans have been wishing for this since release. If KeSPA can make it happen more power to them. If BW teams will support their players in SC2 and KeSPA will get it broadcast, then the ideal situation for Korean players is reached. Even if Koreans end up not being able to go to tourneys not sponsored by Blizzard or maybe GOM. Dealing a huge blow to IPL, MLG, NASL (kinda) and the foreign SC2 scene in general is not what the Koreans want, and it's not good for "e-sports". GOM has been way way better for foreign AND Korean SC2 than KeSPA would ever be. If KeSPA takes over Korean SC2, what happens to Liquid'Hero? FnaticRain? Do they not get to play in Korea because they're not on a "licensed" team? GSL's not going anywhere. GOMTV's not suddenly going to roll over and be KeSPA's bitch when they've got such a firm history with Blizzard and Its not fucking likely that a foreign team or its players would ever be allowed (or able) to play in Proleague anyways. Fact is that Korean SC2 players still don't make shit and what little betterment of their situation they've had is mostly due to GOM not foreign tournaments. As long as MLG and other foreign tournaments continue to talk to GOM, Koreans will make it to those events. Meanwhile, KeSPA events will give them sponsorship opportunities, so teams like ZeNEX can afford to hold onto their players. That's what I really hope so too. But I don't think it's positive news for both side BW and SC2. Because regarding to the history of KeSPA, what they did against GomTV Classic, etc. They would not like to share any profits with any other competitors, especially like GOM. This news is the hint that KeSPA may try to absorb Korean SC2 scene what GOM and other teams created and change into their own way. According to some rumors in South Korea e-sports community, KeSPA will introduce SC2 at the middle of the 2011-2012 season, the match would be like 1set in BW, 2set in SC2, etc. And KeSPA will not allow players who plays GSL as long as they didn't join KeSPA-based pro team. And they've been thinking that BW players will eventually play SC2 at the higher level than GSL players overall. When that time comes, KeSPA will shut down GSL and kick GOM out of the Korean e-sports scene. Believe or not, I'm just making a point that there is a super-bad blood between those two. I can mention a clear fact that you could see this at IeSF 2011 recently, they didn't even contact GOM or any SC2 teams for requesting the Korean representative of SC2, even if there are some players who are available to play competitively. Also, about some of the Article about Korea e-sports, you could see that some media spoke Korean SC2 scene as "failed business" and it is said that KeSPA will make SC2 successfully not like GSL. Even though, Blizzard and KeSPA are having a good mood recently. That doesn't mean, KeSPA and GOM will have the same. We should think and watch carefully. And I'm still wondering about the 8th Pro-team (they called it "Dream-team") what they mentioned last month more than this. not 2 flame u but can u look up stuff before u post about it? "what they did to GomTV Classic" y Kespa evil did so much wrong there fuck them.
What do you mean? I did look up before I post this.
Here is the one of them.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=101934
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On October 20 2011 11:19 Probulous wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 11:09 NeVeR wrote:
KeSPA...... why? x__x
I really think this will affect BW negatively if it were to happen. It can't do anything but divert more attention and fans from BW to SC2. I just hope that its affect on the BW scene will be minimal if it goes through. Why is that? Why does the flow have to be from BW to SC2? If people only like SC2 because it is new and shiny then surely you don't want them as BW fans? On the flipside if BW is such an amazing game (which I believe it is), why won't smart SC2 fans enjoy BW as well? To me there is massive opportunity to spread BW to those recently engaged with Starcraft through SC2. Sure it probably won't happen in Korea but foreigners learning about Proleague through SC2 is certainly a good thing.
This. People say that the complexity and depth of Brood War is what makes it superior to StarCraft II, but those won't be apparent to new viewers. Without an influx of fans, the scene will inevitably die out, but perhaps StarCraft II's quick paced action and pretty visuals can serve as a gateway game for Brood War, once they've become acclimatised to the basics.
As for myself, I've felt that Brood War was more extreme than StarCraft II - I've never seen an SC2 game that could compare to the greatest games of Brood War, but on the other hand at least the terrible games of StarCraft II have the credit of being short. Bad Brood War games stretch on forever (I couldn't find the video, but I seem to recall a ridiculously boring TvT involving Canata that ended in a draw because the referees were falling asleep.)
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Got back home and saw this, jaw immediately drops on the floor.
This is HUGE. The fact that proleague is even considering adding SC2 illustrates that there definitely is some slow progression. Sad news for BW? I don't think so, I'd say it still majorly favors BW and its viewers, and it'd almost be like a slow introduction into those who are indifferent to SC2.
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Is it a coincidence that this is mentioned around the same time as Blizzcon? The Blizzcon that a lot of Korean Brood War pros were invited to? Hrm.....
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Wow, so much immaturity. Neither game is going to "die", and even if that happens it's not something to celebrate.
As a fan of both games, I welcome Kespa allowing SC2 to develop, but I do hope this doesn't come at the detriment of BW. I do welcome the addition of another team league in Korea though, more chance to see the up-and-coming and specialist players this way. I bet players like Inca will be invaluable to a team as a PvP sniper in the Proleague format.
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On October 20 2011 12:20 Mobius_1 wrote:
Wow, so much immaturity. Neither game is going to "die", and even if that happens it's not something to celebrate.
As a fan of both games, I welcome Kespa allowing SC2 to develop, but I do hope this doesn't come at the detriment of BW. I do welcome the addition of another team league in Korea though, more chance to see the up-and-coming and specialist players this way. I bet players like Inca will be invaluable to a team as a PvP sniper in the Proleague format.
This. I don't get why either both can't be happy about it or not care but why hate on the other game? Both are awesome and epic in their own rights.
I for one am excited because I am sick of winners league format and if kespa does do it and its like their actual proleague 4 1v1's and possible ace I will want to tune in more to the sc2 team leagues  .
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What I don't understand is why this is still in the BW forums. I think it's much more suitable in the SC2 forums. I don't know why this has something to do with BW if the news bit itself says that it will form a different league.
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Canada13389 Posts
Wait, if KeSPA becomes involved what will happen to the current SC2 teams? Join KeSPA or don't play in the PL? Hmm from what I've heard KeSPA is a mixed bag in terms of how they treat players so idk if this is truly good or just kind of OK when you consider everyone involved.
Good for the spectator scene I am sure but it could have ramifications of splitting the scene into KeSPA teams and non-KeSPA teams. Unless PL is open to teams that aren't a part of KeSPA.
I'm a BW noob so forgive me for my lack of understanding here.
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On October 20 2011 12:26 ZeromuS wrote:
Wait, if KeSPA becomes involved what will happen to the current SC2 teams? Join KeSPA or don't play in the PL? Hmm from what I've heard KeSPA is a mixed bag in terms of how they treat players so idk if this is truly good or just kind of OK when you consider everyone involved.
Good for the spectator scene I am sure but it could have ramifications of splitting the scene into KeSPA teams and non-KeSPA teams. Unless PL is open to teams that aren't a part of KeSPA.
I'm a BW noob so forgive me for my lack of understanding here.
They won't be open to teams that aren't part of KeSPA, I assure you. KeSPA is the borg, and the current SC2 teams will be assimilated.
Of course, they could refuse and stick with Gretech. If that happens nothing will come of this and everything will continue on as normal.
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My big worry is that if this happens, kespa's rules and structure could further segregate korean versus western starcraft 2, and then starcraft 2 could die outside of korea like broodwar did.
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Canada13389 Posts
On October 20 2011 12:29 Gann1 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 12:26 ZeromuS wrote:
Wait, if KeSPA becomes involved what will happen to the current SC2 teams? Join KeSPA or don't play in the PL? Hmm from what I've heard KeSPA is a mixed bag in terms of how they treat players so idk if this is truly good or just kind of OK when you consider everyone involved.
Good for the spectator scene I am sure but it could have ramifications of splitting the scene into KeSPA teams and non-KeSPA teams. Unless PL is open to teams that aren't a part of KeSPA.
I'm a BW noob so forgive me for my lack of understanding here. They won't be open to teams that aren't part of KeSPA, I assure you. KeSPA is the borg, and the current SC2 teams will be assimilated. Of course, they could refuse and stick with Gretech. If that happens nothing will come of this and everything will continue on as normal.
Thats what I was thinking. I'm having mixed reactions personally. I'm sure if I knew more about BW I would feel different but didn't KeSPA have a lot of problems regarding their treatment of players?
Also, assimilation of teams and preventing competition seems like its really bad for improving what could come in the future. Without competition what is the drive to improve one event over another?
Then again when we look at some professional sports leagues you can see one governing body (i.e. NFL, NHL) and it creates solid competition within itself. But the difference here is that the broadcasters are different and they differentiate their coverage which allows for some people to prefer CBC Hockey over something like TSN Hockey.
I just don't want stagnation. Competition for the GSL is welcome IMO but I don't want to see GOM die completely :/
On October 20 2011 12:32 strongandbig wrote:
My big worry is that if this happens, kespa's rules and structure could further segregate korean versus western starcraft 2, and then starcraft 2 could die outside of korea like broodwar did.
This is another worry of mine as well.
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This seems to be a smart move by KeSPA and let me explaing myself before getting to flamed. The reason that this is a smart move by KeSPA is that it allows for sponsors to get their brand out to a larger audiance without the need to pick between SC:BW and SC2 it just smart business by KeSPA here. They can help ensure the healthy continuation of BW by allowing the BW teams to create their own SC2 teams. It gives an outlet for B-teamers to switch to SC2 earlier if they so choose without having to wait for their contract to end or decide to take the risk to move after SC2 has been out for over a year.
The thing I'm worried about by this move is that KeSPA will have to much control over SC2 and stifle worldwide growth and competition by limiting what Korean progamers will be able to do in terms of events. Hopefully this is a win win for everyone.
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konadora
Singapore66356 Posts
On October 20 2011 12:32 strongandbig wrote:
My big worry is that if this happens, kespa's rules and structure could further segregate korean versus western starcraft 2, and then starcraft 2 could die outside of korea like broodwar did.
SC2 outside korea is way too established to be affected by kespa's ruling (if it happens anyway)
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On October 20 2011 12:08 ayaz2810 wrote:
Is it a coincidence that this is mentioned around the same time as Blizzcon? The Blizzcon that a lot of Korean Brood War pros were invited to? Hrm.....
You mean like they always are? every year?
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Canada13389 Posts
On October 20 2011 12:39 konadora wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 12:32 strongandbig wrote:
My big worry is that if this happens, kespa's rules and structure could further segregate korean versus western starcraft 2, and then starcraft 2 could die outside of korea like broodwar did. SC2 outside korea is way too established to be affected by kespa's ruling (if it happens anyway)
I think he means having korean competition in the foreign scene. Eventually if the skill levels become too different I don't think people will watch non koreans or non korean trained players play.
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On October 20 2011 12:39 konadora wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 12:32 strongandbig wrote:
My big worry is that if this happens, kespa's rules and structure could further segregate korean versus western starcraft 2, and then starcraft 2 could die outside of korea like broodwar did. SC2 outside korea is way too established to be affected by kespa's ruling (if it happens anyway)
Could it not affect foreigners playing in Korea? I am not sure how things worked in BW but GOM has certainly tried to get outsiders into the local scene. My understaking is KESPA is much stricter on eligibility to play. Would be a real shame if it became harder for foreigners to improve by going to Korea.
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EPT
