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I have a half-suggestion, half-inquiry.
It seems at this point in time, people won't simply go to to the store, see Brood War on the store shelves, and be curious enough to purchase a 10 year old game and play. Therefore, I think it falls on the shoulders of the Brood War community to take an active role in spreading the word that people should still play the game. One of the easiest ways to do this is by advertising a convenience factor to try it out.
It appears that you can download Brood War for free on the ICCUP website. I'm sure this is illegal, as is hosting a private server for Brood War. However, I would think that providing the game for free is more severe than hosting a private server. Nevertheless, it's there, relatively easy to find on a pretty reputable website. What I'm unsure of is why Blizzard allows this to continue. Why don't they intervene and prevent ICCUP from making their game available at no cost? Do they just not care anymore?
Anyway, if this free handout is acceptable, it makes getting Brood War to play very convenient. If you have friends who are reluctant to get Brood War, direct them to that website so that they can be playing in 10 minutes. A little accessibility goes a long way, I believe. However, if this strategy is considered shady, illegal, and just plain wrong, then feel free to ignore it. I would normally discard the idea myself as petty piracy, that is, if it wasn't on the ICCUP website...
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Has there ever been a "noob" tournament?
Like, E- through D...maybe D+?
That would be fun to do and watch
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On September 29 2011 17:48 AroundTweed wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2011 17:07 Otolia wrote:
Though your initiative is admirable, I fear it might not be as useful as you think it is. SC:BW may have a huge history and many forum veterans may be emotionally linked to this game, but it is an understatement to say that SC:BW is overshadowed by his little brother.
You speak about helping new players. That's always a great idea, but who is going to start BW now that SC 2 is out. I'm not speaking about gameplay but about opportunity, most high-level BW foreign players have switched over to SC 2. Why would a brand new player chooser BW over SC 2 when his favorite players are playing SC 2? Who is going to learn about Flash greatness when this guy never appears on streams ? You will certainly have some SC 2 players who will try out BW in order to improve drastically their mechanics/APM, and that should be your public not brand new players. I'll try not to be too antagonistic (and spark a 45 page long argument about BW and SC2), but I feel that there is a large majority of people who don't care about "opportunity" but think that the BW experience is superior (for them), and thus will play BW over SC2. I myself don't really plan on going anywhere with Starcraft (and that is my own choice), but it's a fun experience, and I think you may be generalising the entire community with your own opinions (which I'm not saying are wrong). How was that for being neutal?
Adding to this, I actually quit SC2 about 6 months ago because it just wasnt as good as BW. Wanted to go back to bw but not many people play anymore. Many players are in the same situation, some still play sc2 because they can't go back to BW because there are no tourneys and no tmany people outside korea are playing.
I see BW's future to be similar to what happened with Quake 1 & 3, people will eventually go back there because it's just never-ending fun.
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I think it's more important to get people spectating than it is to find new players. Watching a stream or a vod takes far less effort and time investment than actually playing, and people interested in playing will end up transitioning from spectators to players anyway.
Also on the subject of BW vs SC2 I think it's kind of inevitable for that kind of conflict to come up, mainly because Blizzard wants it to happen. It's not like Starcraft vs Warcraft where they weren't really competing, or 1.6 vs source where Valve didn't actually care which one people played. Blizzard has thrown BW under the bus in favor of SC2 and trying to get people interested in the older game means constantly struggling against that.
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On October 01 2011 10:18 TheGlassface wrote:
Has there ever been a "noob" tournament?
Like, E- through D...maybe D+?
That would be fun to do and watch
No it wouldn't. There'd be smurfs everywhere.
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On October 01 2011 11:21 Ribbon wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2011 10:18 TheGlassface wrote:
Has there ever been a "noob" tournament?
Like, E- through D...maybe D+?
That would be fun to do and watch No it wouldn't. There'd be smurfs everywhere.
The D rank tournaments on iCCup had A ranks smurfing. =(
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I think thanks to fold's justin.tv guide, alot more people are streaming BW.
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On October 01 2011 11:28 Magus wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2011 11:21 Ribbon wrote:On October 01 2011 10:18 TheGlassface wrote:
Has there ever been a "noob" tournament?
Like, E- through D...maybe D+?
That would be fun to do and watch No it wouldn't. There'd be smurfs everywhere. The D rank tournaments on iCCup had A ranks smurfing. =(
http://www.iccup.com/starcraft/tourney/grid/6004.html
I was on "JoeKim".
45.Caliber is A.P[PaiN]. I forgot his other akas, he was in vSt. and is a B rank Zerg.
Manner]Silent is (was) SneazeL. He is an A- Protoss. You may know him, he's in the top 4 of the Kaal's International StarLeague right now - the biggest foreign starleague since SC2's release. He's also considered to be in the top 10 outside of Korea.
There are a few other smurfs there, but, well, just going by that, you should understand.
P.S I was (stopped playing actively to manage and organize) an A rank Terran, so there you have 3 players in a 16 man tournament whom should absolutely not be there.
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I remember casting some of our "D" and "C" rank tours when I had nothing else to cast. Needless to say, I was casting on people who were at least B in potential most of the time.
Sometimes we sit there and just guess who all the smurfs are. Its rather amusing to see. Keep tight everyone, this is a well-organized movement already. Several of us have already been discussing things like this for a while now. If I had a stronger internet, I'd be broadcasting a lot more often (basically what happened to elegant happened to me).
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Canada2055 Posts
On October 01 2011 08:29 Psyonic_Reaver wrote:I would love to see another CPL.
this is a good idea, i had fun coaching the last one
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On October 01 2011 08:29 Psyonic_Reaver wrote:I would love to see another CPL.
Yes, I think this would be great too.
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i keep on trying to learn, but on iccup every player just 1bases me or cheeses literally everygame. 4 pool, 5 pool, double gate, etc etc literally everytime. i like to macro and don't cheese ever... any suggestions?
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On October 01 2011 14:52 Silidons wrote:
i keep on trying to learn, but on iccup every player just 1bases me or cheeses literally everygame. 4 pool, 5 pool, double gate, etc etc literally everytime. i like to macro and don't cheese ever... any suggestions?
Keep working on your build so you can stop 1 base play and cheese and collect free wins and hopefully play against better opponents who goes for macro games. It's not like you can force your opponent to go macro just because you get 1 based and cheesed every game. 
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I'm downloading brood war right now!!!!
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On October 01 2011 14:52 Silidons wrote:
i keep on trying to learn, but on iccup every player just 1bases me or cheeses literally everygame. 4 pool, 5 pool, double gate, etc etc literally everytime. i like to macro and don't cheese ever... any suggestions?
I don't know where people have gotten this attitude of NR20mins. That's not how you get better. In my experience, koreans play batshit insane aggression. And that's the basis of how you get better. If you can't micro/macro off 1 base, how are you going to do it off 3? The way I've seen progression is (using ZvT as an example)
1. You 4 pool every game. You're forced to ling micro to the extreme every game if you ever want to win against your practice partners who will quickly catch on to your constant 4pool.
2. You realize you need more econ so you 9 pool every game instead. Once people get good enough to where you can't kill them outright with a 9pool, you start to expand after the initial attack.
3. Same as above but with a 12 pool.
4. Your opponents are now so good at dealing with ling aggression that you throw down a fast lair after expand. Cut down on lings and instead make a spire. Learn to muta micro.
5. You constant do the 12pool variation of 2 hatch muta. Attain jaedong like muta micro. Then, as your opponents get better, you vary your build here and there, maybe 4 more zerglings this game, maybe 2 less lings this game. Maybe you go in with your first 6 mutas, or maybe you wait one more round and do a muta/ling attack.
That alone can get you to like B rank. A strong 2 hatch muta with excellent ling micro, muta micro, and macro will roll basically everyone. Even if they know it's coming. And it really only has 1-2 holes in it where you can get cheesed so you learn to watch for those and know exactly how to react. Then, when you finally start to use 12 hatch, you're so much harder to cheese because you have godly ling micro, early game game-sense(since that was the majority of your games), and once your 3 hatch mutas come out, it's basically gg. Since you're used to having to end the game with your mutas, you'll learn to find any hole in the enemy and just finish the game outright with harass.
The alternative is mass gaming doing standard 3 hatch muta over and over again, where you have to ling harass, muta harass, 2 base saturated macro, expand to 3rd base, tech to lurkers, etc. Not to mention that there are dozens of different cheeses and variations that are designed specifically to hit like 10 different timing windows. BBS, proxy 8rax, bunker rush, sparks terran, ayumi, 1 base valkonic, 2 rax expand, standard 3 tank push, any kind of vulture/wraith opening...
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On October 01 2011 17:16 Xenocide_Knight wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2011 14:52 Silidons wrote:
i keep on trying to learn, but on iccup every player just 1bases me or cheeses literally everygame. 4 pool, 5 pool, double gate, etc etc literally everytime. i like to macro and don't cheese ever... any suggestions? I don't know where people have gotten this attitude of NR20mins. That's not how you get better. In my experience, koreans play batshit insane aggression. And that's the basis of how you get better. If you can't micro/macro off 1 base, how are you going to do it off 3? The way I've seen progression is (using ZvT as an example) 1. You 4 pool every game. You're forced to ling micro to the extreme every game if you ever want to win against your practice partners who will quickly catch on to your constant 4pool. 2. You realize you need more econ so you 9 pool every game instead. Once people get good enough to where you can't kill them outright with a 9pool, you start to expand after the initial attack. 3. Same as above but with a 12 pool. 4. Your opponents are now so good at dealing with ling aggression that you throw down a fast lair after expand. Cut down on lings and instead make a spire. Learn to muta micro. 5. You constant do the 12pool variation of 2 hatch muta. Attain jaedong like muta micro. Then, as your opponents get better, you vary your build here and there, maybe 4 more zerglings this game, maybe 2 less lings this game. Maybe you go in with your first 6 mutas, or maybe you wait one more round and do a muta/ling attack. That alone can get you to like B rank. A strong 2 hatch muta with excellent ling micro, muta micro, and macro will roll basically everyone. Even if they know it's coming. And it really only has 1-2 holes in it where you can get cheesed so you learn to watch for those and know exactly how to react. Then, when you finally start to use 12 hatch, you're so much harder to cheese because you have godly ling micro, early game game-sense(since that was the majority of your games), and once your 3 hatch mutas come out, it's basically gg. Since you're used to having to end the game with your mutas, you'll learn to find any hole in the enemy and just finish the game outright with harass. The alternative is mass gaming doing standard 3 hatch muta over and over again, where you have to ling harass, muta harass, 2 base saturated macro, expand to 3rd base, tech to lurkers, etc. Not to mention that there are dozens of different cheeses and variations that are designed specifically to hit like 10 different timing windows. BBS, proxy 8rax, bunker rush, sparks terran, ayumi, 1 base valkonic, 2 rax expand, standard 3 tank push, any kind of vulture/wraith opening...
I personally prefer boxer's 1 base TvZ style especially versus zergs who like to hive fast on 3 bases , Flash 1 rax fe is quite weak versus these kind of play because 1) you give zerg to get high end tech despite you having upgrades 2) weak game sense and inability to compensate loses only warrants a gg from you . 3) Army controla and science vessel is imperative 4) failing to take out the zerg's third in a 1 rax fe build means ultralisk with +5 armour and 1 attack with lings , you can say good bye to your mnm and siege tank .
Boxer's build I can buy time and drop an mnm in his base while I try to expand on 2 bases after dropping my units in his base and If he tries to counter attack me , I could just put a bunker and a turret on top of my ramp .I think people under estimate how tough broodwar is on the laddering level ,people on d level are random crazy people , 4pooling ,5pooling 1 base hydra in tvz , 2 base hydra tvz . You name it and because of that some people who play macro and standard games will be pulling out their hair most of the time . They will be What the hell , Why am i dying to these kind of rushes . You have got to learn to live with it and become a better player to adapt to these agressive builds .
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On October 01 2011 10:05 beamer159 wrote:I have a half-suggestion, half-inquiry. It seems at this point in time, people won't simply go to to the store, see Brood War on the store shelves, and be curious enough to purchase a 10 year old game and play. Therefore, I think it falls on the shoulders of the Brood War community to take an active role in spreading the word that people should still play the game. One of the easiest ways to do this is by advertising a convenience factor to try it out. It appears that you can download Brood War for free on the ICCUP website. I'm sure this is illegal, as is hosting a private server for Brood War. However, I would think that providing the game for free is more severe than hosting a private server. Nevertheless, it's there, relatively easy to find on a pretty reputable website. What I'm unsure of is why Blizzard allows this to continue. Why don't they intervene and prevent ICCUP from making their game available at no cost? Do they just not care anymore? (...)
Part of why blizzard allows it is because the version iccup hosts has no single player version. Running servers costs money, so maybe blizzer see's it as a good point that iccup runs their own? And of course BW is still awesome advertising for SC2: "You see Bruce Lee kicking like a boss? You want that feeling too but without spending 10 000 hours training? We've got the the right thing for you!"
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On October 01 2011 14:52 Silidons wrote:
i keep on trying to learn, but on iccup every player just 1bases me or cheeses literally everygame. 4 pool, 5 pool, double gate, etc etc literally everytime. i like to macro and don't cheese ever... any suggestions?
This is strange, I almost never face cheese. Perhaps its to do with your opening build order?
Also 1 base Sair/DT / 2 gate is not cheese 
If you go builds like 12 nexus you almost get followed up by a heap of 1 base or 2 base cheese.
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On October 01 2011 15:59 StormSnarlX wrote:
I'm downloading brood war right now!!!!
Welcome to the best game ever
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EPT
