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On September 30 2011 15:36 FyRe_DragOn wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2011 15:24 Voidsoul wrote:On September 30 2011 15:17 FyRe_DragOn wrote:On September 30 2011 14:44 Voidsoul wrote:On September 30 2011 06:02 ArvickHero wrote:
ahhhh hmmmm I guess I should start getting to work on some of those Protoss guides/builds I've been planning to write .. Great! I like the ones you've put out on TL so far (the Neo-Bisu-Build one and the "How to react to scouting info in PvZ" one; been awhile though T.T) On September 30 2011 10:48 FyRe_DragOn wrote:
I cant really play bw atm either because of a shoulder injury but Id like to share my strategical knowledge in some way. In particular I should have plenty of free time coming up this weekend so id be up for spending some time doing whatever is needed/possible to help out. any suggestions? Apart from coaching/workshops if you like to spend time with no people around you could do a strategic cast of interesting games. You know, like the ones Day[9] used to do. Explaining the different approaches to the MU and/or possible thought processes behind that. Possibly combined with some general advice of sorts And get well soon ofc ~.~ that would be great but requires a decent computer afaik..? Hmmm... kinda depends on how shitty your gear really is. I managed just fine to do repcast VoDs off of a 1.6 Ghz processor, a laptop shared graphics chip and 2 GB RAM i dont know how bad those specs are but ive been told my video card is the weak link in my system. you think it would b taxed less if i wasnt doing bw at the same time? This would mean I cant do any replays, which would blow, but its better than nothing 
Well, if you own a desktop and have a dedicated graphics card, it should be better than the one i used (pretty likely that its miles better ^^°); if you're using onboard, it should be almost the same. It runs camtasia + audacity + BW no problem. It even runs camtasia + audacity + live games on iCCup 
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On September 30 2011 15:39 Game wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2011 15:37 L_Master wrote:On September 30 2011 15:18 Game wrote:On September 29 2011 19:41 Djagulingu wrote:+ Show Spoiler + Even with all new guys going along with little brother, BW still has tournaments with nice prize pool and ~700 live viewers. What I mean is, $1500 prize pool, sayle being the only guy streaming and we still have ~700 live viewers. There would be a lot more if more initiative was taken by more people and not just Game/Sayle/a small bunch of other people.
Except for the streams, ISL has Starleague level organizational structure. Sayle is great, awesome, all that good jazz, but a single guy streaming and casting all of these with some broadcasts taking 13ish hours with no break means streaming needs help. I also feel that I need to congratulate Sayle here because of the 13 hour solo broadcast. I wish someone else also stepped up for that. Elegant did this for quite a while but I don't see him under ISL any more.
So, you guys must be wondering why I took a paragraph to talk about ISL, let me connect it to the topic and continue with my seemingly tryhard motivational great wall of text. With TL as a brand pulling out of BW completely, we still have an exceptionally good tourney which is organized by literally some guys.
Speaking of "some guys", that is officially what we are (no offense to any of us, but TL BW community, which is some forum goers that play and watch BW together in a forum despite that forum being TL makes us some guys in the eyes of someone who is looking from outside).
Also, "some guys" is the form of anything, any organizational structure, any company when it's just founded. What I mean is, BW may be dying in the eyes of some, but it is reincarnating in my eyes. So, what I mean is that this is not a "last hurrah". This is an opportunity. To start a tradition. Just like TSL. We may expand this and eventually turn this into something big. But that is in our hands.
Enough with the motivational part, I think there can be another low level clan that can be founded initially. One means monopoly, 2 means competition, right? Other than that, well... Nothing that is not written by L_Master comes in my mind. I spoilered your wall of text so people can see my post. Thanks for the credit there to me and Sayle, but more importantly are things that follow. The people who have worked on the ISL's are extremely dedicated, and you seem to think there are fewer staff than actually exist. To be honest, ISL1 and ISL2 both independently had 10+ as staff, with 5-6 of them being entirely dedicated. Me and Sayle are just the people that are visible publicly. Granted I put in a lot of effort in retrospect, and Sayle puts in a lot of time, just saying don't sell the other guys short please  Honestly though, there are plenty of BW lovers out there willing to sponsor tournaments. I in fact haven't been able to personally keep up with them all, which might come as a surprise. Unfortunately, most want to be an independent sponsor and name tournaments after themselves, which is not a great thing for a communal starleague or large tournament. To be fair though, Eywa ran Gambit Cup season 1 nearly without flaw, and is investing a lot of time into future projects. More people like Eywa would be great. Also, as far as the lack of casters is concerned... I've basically researched every BW caster and came to a very simple conclusion: "They all suck." I'm not talking about NukeTheStars and people like that, who respectfully declined to cast the first ISL, but the people who will work for free. I'd love to help build names, but Sayle and EleGant were really the only capable at the time. EleGant lost his internet connection, and well, the rest is history. As of right now, the only person I can personally enjoy as a caster is hacklebeast. He's very entertaining, and his lisp of the letter "s" literally makes me laugh out loud because it reminds me of Jeff Gallagher (radio personality). I wish he had more BW knowledge, then he'd be perfect. Not trying to rip anyone, but needed to bring some clarity to your post of that issue. Can't really say I disagree, but it doesn't hurt to have the option available AND if people are dedicated and work on it they can probably improve a significant. Having english casts of proleague/OSL/MSL available if someone wants them can't be a bad thing. I'm under the impression in life that it's best to have things done right. The last thing I would, and I'm sure most can agree, ever watch is someone with no knowledge or source of entertainment casting the most highly skilled games of BW in existence. That's my feelings on it anyhow.
While I personally agree wholeheartdely, I wonder how the newer crowd with no BW background that is used to having everything in english and explained would react being told to just watch the KR commentators.
My followup question would be where do/how do new casters wanting to improve casting and eventually provide a solid service get there start? Maybe it just starts with people doing casts of games on youtube and if enough people start saying "hey this guy is doing a good job" then we have him step it up and cast on a regular basis.
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Would there be an interest in something like nooby tuesdays for bw?
Like, someone could cast some low ranked games (d / c) and not only commentate but give criticism?
This way people could watch games and learn for their own game, i feel like these types of people are a large part of the tl:bw community .
Sound good??
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On September 30 2011 15:49 L_Master wrote:
Maybe it just starts with people doing casts of games on youtube and if enough people start saying "hey this guy is doing a good job" then we have him step it up and cast on a regular basis.
That's a great idea imho and would also solve some of the time constraints/issues potential casters might have
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On September 30 2011 15:57 TheNessman wrote:
Would there be an interest in something like nooby tuesdays for bw?
Like, someone could cast some low ranked games (d / c) and not only commentate but give criticism?
This way people could watch games and learn for their own game, i feel like these types of people are a large part of the tl:bw community .
Sound good??
The KaSpra show was a good idea, but it failed faster than it grew. Look it up for ideas on that imo.
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On September 30 2011 15:40 Voidsoul wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2011 15:36 FyRe_DragOn wrote:On September 30 2011 15:24 Voidsoul wrote:On September 30 2011 15:17 FyRe_DragOn wrote:On September 30 2011 14:44 Voidsoul wrote:On September 30 2011 06:02 ArvickHero wrote:
ahhhh hmmmm I guess I should start getting to work on some of those Protoss guides/builds I've been planning to write .. Great! I like the ones you've put out on TL so far (the Neo-Bisu-Build one and the "How to react to scouting info in PvZ" one; been awhile though T.T) On September 30 2011 10:48 FyRe_DragOn wrote:
I cant really play bw atm either because of a shoulder injury but Id like to share my strategical knowledge in some way. In particular I should have plenty of free time coming up this weekend so id be up for spending some time doing whatever is needed/possible to help out. any suggestions? Apart from coaching/workshops if you like to spend time with no people around you could do a strategic cast of interesting games. You know, like the ones Day[9] used to do. Explaining the different approaches to the MU and/or possible thought processes behind that. Possibly combined with some general advice of sorts And get well soon ofc ~.~ that would be great but requires a decent computer afaik..? Hmmm... kinda depends on how shitty your gear really is. I managed just fine to do repcast VoDs off of a 1.6 Ghz processor, a laptop shared graphics chip and 2 GB RAM i dont know how bad those specs are but ive been told my video card is the weak link in my system. you think it would b taxed less if i wasnt doing bw at the same time? This would mean I cant do any replays, which would blow, but its better than nothing Well, if you own a desktop and have a dedicated graphics card, it should be better than the one i used (pretty likely that its miles better ^^°); if you're using onboard, it should be almost the same. It runs camtasia + audacity + BW no problem. It even runs camtasia + audacity + live games on iCCup
i dont know what half of these things are, but it sounds promising. would u mind helping me set something up over the weekend? I can compensate u in the form of strategical advice if it works for u lol
also @ the person who said "newb tuesdays" or w/e, i wouldnt mind doing something liek taht if i could possibly get some kind of set up, we shall see.
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On September 30 2011 16:04 Game wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2011 15:57 TheNessman wrote:
Would there be an interest in something like nooby tuesdays for bw?
Like, someone could cast some low ranked games (d / c) and not only commentate but give criticism?
This way people could watch games and learn for their own game, i feel like these types of people are a large part of the tl:bw community .
Sound good?? The KaSpra show was a good idea, but it failed faster than it grew. Look it up for ideas on that imo.
watching this right now! cool!!!
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Russian Federation3329 Posts
OH my, I like this idea so much... There were some good casters that moktira had linked on his profiles (ranshinda and XIJABERWALKIX; i could never remember his id so i never got to watching his videos~  )... but now i just went there and it says they're also retired.... but
http://www.youtube.com/user/deducter
seems like a new, up and coming caster... Everyone support him!!!!
On September 29 2011 16:40 AroundTweed wrote:
As one of the last surviving members of the old sGs I'd love to see some new faces, the clan is pretty barren right now. And the whole idea of getting more of the foreign community just playing BW on a regular basis really appeals to me, and as a (barely) D player I'd like to help - maybe providing some insight into how to make the game more accessible for players starting out.
is sGs on Iccup? I'd like to join, but i'm busy most of the time, only on duringt eh weekends... does sGs like require a lot of commitment? Cause i would like friends that I can consistently play even if for a little bit...
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On September 30 2011 15:18 Game wrote:
Unfortunately, most want to be an independent sponsor and name tournaments after themselves, which is not a great thing for a communal starleague or large tournament.
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I can help with any 2;2 questions/rep analysis. Maybe 1;1 also, but I'm not that good. :D
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On September 30 2011 16:18 Ribbon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2011 15:18 Game wrote:
Unfortunately, most want to be an independent sponsor and name tournaments after themselves, which is not a great thing for a communal starleague or large tournament.
Ironically not hitting you there. Can't really go into details, but the (3) people I'm referring to were just looking for some type of e-glory. I'm typically fine with that if they're not overbearing, but that wasn't the case.
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On September 30 2011 16:27 Game wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2011 16:18 Ribbon wrote:On September 30 2011 15:18 Game wrote:
Unfortunately, most want to be an independent sponsor and name tournaments after themselves, which is not a great thing for a communal starleague or large tournament. Ironically not hitting you there. Can't really go into details, but the (3) people I'm referring to were just looking for some type of e-glory. I'm typically fine with that if they're not overbearing, but that wasn't the case.
Considering how egotistical and overbearing I am, I shudder to think at the kind of people you turn away.
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Is there a mod or something to fix SC:BW on my computer? The resolutions and colors are all messed up we it loads up. Diablo had windowed mode by inserting -w into properties, but I don't think BW has it.
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On September 30 2011 16:50 Torpedo.Vegas wrote:
Is there a mod or something to fix SC:BW on my computer? The resolutions and colors are all messed up we it loads up. Diablo had windowed mode by inserting -w into properties, but I don't think BW has it.
There are different third party launchers out for BW (Chaoslauncher, iCCup Launcher, Mini Launcher) that enable windowed mode. Other than that most of the times colors are only messed in menu and are totally fine ingame, so you could try that out before trying windowed
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This is what fixed the colors in my broodwar: (Note: I'm using Windows 7 32bit)
Download and install the iCCup launcher
Go into your starcraft install directory and right click starcraft.exe > properties > compatibility > check everything except "compatibility mode" (so, 256 colors/640x480 res/disable vis themes/disable desktop comp/disable display scaling/run as admin should ALL be CHECKED)
Now, open up the iCCup launcher, but don't start sc yet! before you do this, right click desktop and just hit "Screen Resolution" > KEEP THIS WINDOW OPEN!
Start starcraft! Colors should be fine now!
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I've tried to get a couple people to watch BW games and these are the issues that come up the most:
1) "the graphics suck"
2) "I can't understand what's going on because it's all in korean"
3) "I can't enjoy it because the game is outdated and the players have to fight the game to win"
You can't really do anything about 1 but I think 2 and 3 can be addressed. 3 in particular seems stupid to me since none of the people I talked to actually play the game and you would never know just by watching pros play. Clearly there are people out there promoting the idea that BW is outdated and bad.
Also I don't want to criticize but I think it's really hurting that pretty much all of the high-profile foreign community has adopted an "I don't publicly care about BW anymore" stance. I know both Day[9] and Moletrap have been spotted in OSL crowds but you would never know they still cared just from listening to them. There are obvious reasons why this is happening but I can't help but feel it's kind of sad that Tasteless can give shoutouts to EVO but completely ignores the BW scene.
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On September 30 2011 18:02 BrosephBrostar wrote:
I've tried to get a couple people to watch BW games and these are the issues that come up the most:
1) "the graphics suck"
2) "I can't understand what's going on because it's all in korean"
3) "I can't enjoy it because the game is outdated and the players have to fight the game to win"
You can't really do anything about 1 but I think 2 and 3 can be addressed. 3 in particular seems stupid to me since none of the people I talked to actually play the game and you would never know just by watching pros play. Clearly there are people out there promoting the idea that BW is outdated and bad.
The graphics just take getting used to. They're clear and mostly clean.
Also I don't want to criticize but I think it's really hurting that pretty much all of the high-profile foreign community has adopted an "I don't publicly care about BW anymore" stance. I know both Day[9] and Moletrap have been spotted in OSL crowds but you would never know they still cared just from listening to them. There are obvious reasons why this is happening but I can't help but feel it's kind of sad that Tasteless can give shoutouts to EVO but completely ignores the BW scene.
There was half a State of the Game dedicated to BW, due to popular demand, though. And Nony got in trouble for tweeting that he was excited to watch the OSL finals because he'd actually get to see professionals. So it's not completely gone.
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I think part of the issue is that BW fans focus on pure mechanics sometimes give the impression that BW is about mindlessly executing a strategy some Korean figured out 4 years ago against another guy doing same. Whenever someone pops in going "I'm an SC2 fan and I want to try BW", they get told:
A.) BW is a man's game, because of all the APM you need.
B.) Go to Liquipedia and copy a build.
One of the things about SC2 fans is that we like that the game is new and kind of not so good maybe and everyone's bad, because we can find our own styles, discover things no one knew before, and kind of make our own mark on the scene. And I don't think there's any reason that a newbie BW player can't go "I like wraiths! I'm going to incorporate a non-optimal amount in my TvT just because they're neat!" and practice and practice and make it work to a respectable level through polish alone. The community tends to discourage that kind of thing, because 2port wraith TvT is a bit silly and not that good, even if you have good mechanics and it's a well timed +1 air attack with tanks while expanding and whatever. You're not going to win an OSL with that.
But I think, most people are okay with that. And they just kind of want to do what they like, even if it means they'll never get out of the C range. That's a perfectly normal way to want to play a game. There's not a lot of resources for someone who wants to get as far as they can doing their own thing, instead of getting way farther doing Flash's thing. And I think a more dynamic, generally sloppier ICCUP isn't necessarily a bad thing, and it's an ICCUP that's a bit more fun for a lot of people.
tl;dr: You have to want to play the game, and only from there can you want to get good at it.
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We are an alliance of 6 low-level/mid-level clans and we hold clanwars every week between us. We also hold different type of tournament each 3-4 months (the price money is very small though). Can the project help us find new clans to clanwar with during the weekend ? Or foreign players to play in our tournament ?
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Australia7069 Posts
well i've resisted your trolling in this thread up to this point, but i'm bored, getting drunk, and your ignorance really has started to show through.
I think part of the issue is that BW fans focus on pure mechanics sometimes give the impression that BW is about mindlessly executing a strategy some Korean figured out 4 years ago against another guy doing same.
Where the fuck did you get this bullshit from? really? I don't know anyone who says that. Did you catch the most recent OSL finals? The whole thing was decided by creative strategies clashing (12 scv 2 fac? 2 shuttle reaver bulldog, 2 base carrier?) and the ability of jangbi and fantasy to micro against each other and maintain their focus to get the win. If we thought the game was just about mindlessly executing strategies we wouldn't watch.
Whenever someone pops in going "I'm an SC2 fan and I want to try BW", they get told:
A.) BW is a man's game, because of all the APM you need.
B.) Go to Liquipedia and copy a build.
I dont hear A much, so i'll take you on your word. if that gets said, its usually in a joking friendly way, like THIS"LL PUT HAIR ON YOUR CHIN SONNY BOY, kinda thing. it's never meant to turn someone off the game, if it is said at all.
as for your second point, impeaching the usefulness of liquipedia, which taught me and HEAPS of other people how to play this game, and was created and maintained by this fantastic community is borderline treason in my books. Liquipedia has fantastic guides about how to play the matchups in general and good builds to get started on. Its a great resource and anyone who gets directed there has been done a favour.
One of the things about SC2 fans is that we like that the game is new and kind of not so good maybe and everyone's bad, because we can find our own styles, discover things no one knew before, and kind of make our own mark on the scene. And I don't think there's any reason that a newbie BW player can't go "I like wraiths! I'm going to incorporate a non-optimal amount in my TvT just because they're neat!" and practice and practice and make it work to a respectable level through polish alone. The community tends to discourage that kind of thing, because 2port wraith TvT is a bit silly and not that good, even if you have good mechanics and it's a well timed +1 air attack with tanks while expanding and whatever. You're not going to win an OSL with that.
.........you like something cuz its bad. fine. i dont care. What i do have issue with is this notion that new players get discouraged from creativity. Literally everytime i've been asked for a tvt build by a newbie terran i recommend 2 port. Because its heaps of fun to watch. because i enjoy watching people be creative and learn frustrating strategies ^_^
As for "not winning an osl with that" have you actually watched alot of OSL games? Sure i dont think i've seen +1 air attack wraiths tvt but some of the most epic OSL games have been created through silly builds. Fuck look at the most recent OSL game 5. There was a corsair fighting a fucking wraith. in pvt.......COME ON MAN STOP BEING BLIND. fuck.
and i'm pretty sure i haven't seen anyone encouraged to not do something "because they wont win an osl with that". the foreign broodwar community accepts that we wont be going to korea to win OSL's at this point. We play for fun. because we enjoy the game. and we encourage new people to enjoy the game too. Often when people query me about whether they should play BW or switch to sc2 i simply say, play what you enjoy. because that is whats gaming is all about.\
But I think, most people are okay with that. And they just kind of want to do what they like, even if it means they'll never get out of the C range. That's a perfectly normal way to want to play a game. There's not a lot of resources for someone who wants to get as far as they can doing their own thing, instead of getting way farther doing Flash's thing. And I think a more dynamic, generally sloppier ICCUP isn't necessarily a bad thing, and it's an ICCUP that's a bit more fun for a lot of people.
from reading this i'm pretty sure you've never watched high ranked iccup people play. Maybe you should. because the B ranks tend to do more silly shit than the c range. in fact what i find is D rank = sillyness, C rank = relatively standard (flash style as you call it) and watching b ranks is where the sillyness comes back in.
to sum up, i think you're taking broad stereotypes, making huge assumptions and in doing so having a go at the BW community as a whole, and i dont fucking like it.
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Where the fuck did you get this bullshit from? really? I don't know anyone who says that. Did you catch the most recent OSL finals? The whole thing was decided by creative strategies clashing (12 scv 2 fac? 2 shuttle reaver bulldog, 2 base carrier?) and the ability of jangbi and fantasy to micro against each other and maintain their focus to get the win. If we thought the game was just about mindlessly executing strategies we wouldn't watch.
Obviously, it's not a true impression. If BW actually was a boring mindless game, no one would play it. I'm just saying people talk about mechanics too much and fun not enough.
I dont hear A much, so i'll take you on your word. if that gets said, its usually in a joking friendly way, like THIS"LL PUT HAIR ON YOUR CHIN SONNY BOY, kinda thing. it's never meant to turn someone off the game, if it is said at all.
It's something that comes up in SC2 vs BW threads. Every single "I play SC2 and want to try BW!" turns into an SC2 vs BW thread (really, every single thread will if it lasts long enough).
as for your second point, impeaching the usefulness of liquipedia, which taught me and HEAPS of other people how to play this game, and was created and maintained by this fantastic community is borderline treason in my books. Liquipedia has fantastic guides about how to play the matchups in general and good builds to get started on. Its a great resource and anyone who gets directed there has been done a favour.
No argument. I actually have Liquipedia open when I play BW. Most people in the BW section want to play that way, and it's fantastic. When you want to be really good at BW, it's the best resource bar none. But I feel you have to like playing BW before you want to get good at it. It's a great resource and an opening to competitive 1v1 BW, but maybe not such a great intro to BW as a whole. It's written on the assumption you already like BW.
Liquipedia is for when you want something with more depth than 2v2v2v2 BGH or you've already decided to try and get good at BW.
.........you like something cuz its bad. fine. i dont care. What i do have issue with is this notion that new players get discouraged from creativity. Literally everytime i've been asked for a tvt build by a newbie terran i recommend 2 port. Because its heaps of fun to watch. because i enjoy watching people be creative and learn frustrating strategies ^_^
Good!
As for "not winning an osl with that" have you actually watched alot of OSL games? Sure i dont think i've seen +1 air attack wraiths tvt but some of the most epic OSL games have been created through silly builds. Fuck look at the most recent OSL game 5. There was a corsair fighting a fucking wraith. in pvt.......COME ON MAN STOP BEING BLIND. fuck.
The JangBi/Fantasy OSL finals are a great advertisement for BW for that reason. It's exactly the kind of thing I want BW fans to mention more.
The basic gist of my argument is thus: Most people will want to play BW for fun, and a chunk of those people will want to play more competitively. I don't think many people will go from Minecraft to D on ICCUP, but Minecraft to BGH to D on ICCUP is a more common path.
and i'm pretty sure i haven't seen anyone encouraged to not do something "because they wont win an osl with that". the foreign broodwar community accepts that we wont be going to korea to win OSL's at this point. We play for fun. because we enjoy the game. and we encourage new people to enjoy the game too. Often when people query me about whether they should play BW or switch to sc2 i simply say, play what you enjoy. because that is whats gaming is all about.
BW needs more people like you, then.
from reading this i'm pretty sure you've never watched high ranked iccup people play. Maybe you should. because the B ranks tend to do more silly shit than the c range. in fact what i find is D rank = sillyness, C rank = relatively standard (flash style as you call it) and watching b ranks is where the sillyness comes back in.
Then show it! I'm not saying BW is a game of memorization, because that's obviously stupid. I'm saying not enough people say that it isn't. Most people just jump into SC2 vs BW mode and start talking about APM and Mechanics and how the skill ceiling is higher etc etc etc., and not enough people are saying that's it's fucking fun. And it is! "It's immaculately subtle" won't get casuals, and you need casuals to get the hardcore guys.
to sum up, i think you're taking broad stereotypes, making huge assumptions and in doing so having a go at the BW community as a whole, and i dont fucking like it.
My only beef with the BW community was that a lot of them were content to let BW die without a fight, and that's starting to change because of threads like this, which makes me happy.
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EPT
