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Fenrax
United States5018 Posts
Really guys, you have to cut the rage for a while. For example:
On May 29 2011 19:28 anatem wrote:
fomos can suck cock, who the fuck would go to their site for the shitty english 'content', especially after pulling this on TL.
Here is a good answer.
+ Show Spoiler +On May 30 2011 00:04 btxmonty wrote:
It saddens me fomos has taken this stance, but I don't criticize them for doing so. It is their responsibility as a business to increase profits besides protecting their intellectual property. Translating a full interview, in which fomos used their resources to make, does not benefit them in any way since people will have no reason to access their website because the full content is already available elsewhere. Their alliance with a Chinese company to provide English content can be understood as the primary reason TL was contacted until now to cease the practice.
Your "especially after pulling this on TL" means nothing. Many times people want to react by a boycott or something but here is the problem. You can't boycott something that you never bought or intended to buy anyway.
They won't charge you money to go there and not even force you to register. They just want you to visit their site if you want to read their interviews. That is absolutely reasonable and understandable from their perspective. It would in fact be extremely stupid by them to not do it this way if they plan to expand their English content. I will just go to Fomos for their interviews from now on because they did the job and thus they deserve the loan. Common sense.
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By attacking Fomos we are in effect calling SDM, the person, 'dumb'? Who said SDM is the decision-maker at Fomos? How do we know it was his decision?
We're talking about Fomos as an organization. Not SDM as a person. They are two separate ideas.
Business is business. You don't like how Fomos is doing business. That's fine, but to say we're calling SDM stupid. That's totally different.
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I'd be interested to see if this results in any kind of profit for them.
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On May 29 2011 21:21 tomstrife wrote:Show nested quote +Fair use, a limitation and exception to the exclusive right granted by copyright law to the author of a creative work, is a doctrine in United States copyright law that allows limited use of copyrighted material without acquiring permission from the rights holders. Examples of fair use include commentary, criticism, news reporting, research, teaching, library archiving and scholarship. It provides for the legal, non-licensed citation or incorporation of copyrighted material in another author's work under a four-factor balancing test. The term fair use originated in the United States. A similar principle, fair dealing, exists in some other common law jurisdictions. Civil law jurisdictions have other limitations and exceptions to copyright I'd say that it would fall under commentary and news... Maybe not the photos, but one of the main reasons people can post clips of movies, etc on YouTube (if there Is anything similar in Korea?). I know many circumvent copyright laws like that in America... Unfortunately the only lawyers I know are American ones.
So clarifying once again, wouldn't the translations, interviews, and "news" threads that our TL translators do count as "fair use"? Remember, teamliquid.net IS A "NEWS" organization, even said it on top "Starcraft Progaming NEWS".
Even if we have ADs and TL.net generate some money via ADs, isn't that also what countless legit news organizations and sites do and have anyway? Like FOX News, NBC, TMZ, CNN, BBC, ABC, all have ads somewhere on the page of the news and I'm pretty sure NOT all of them have pictures and stories that were completely linked source of the original source because of the "Fair Use" doctrine.
So what is the difference between those sites and this site? There really isn't a difference and I'm sure they pull international news as well, especially like CNN and BBC with sources being from others.
And because the translations of interviews/news are in English (WHICH THEY DON'T ORIGINALLY HAVE IN THEIR SITE on Fomos) and not in Korean (the ORIGINAL LANGUAGE), wouldn't that be an original or deviated work from our TL translators?
And lastly, I believe the US law succeed all other international laws as someone mentioned earlier when the two parties are in US and different country (Korea) and the conflict is located in US since TL is located in US and it's Fomos -> TL meaning Korea to US (unlike Blizzard to Kespa which is US to Korea). So Korean law may be invalid and we can go under the US law instead which many media corporations take advantage of, because TL is a media organization.
Just 2 cents.
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korean people are strange
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Quickie, remember the time when TL was non-corporate? Well ever since they broke away from that, I can see why Fomos would be trying to gun them down. We're talking about pennies and dimes, meh.
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On May 30 2011 02:05 StarStruck wrote:
Quickie, remember the time when TL was non-corporate? Well ever since they broke away from that, I can see why Fomos would be trying to gun them down. We're talking about pennies and dimes, meh.
Even so, the other media organizations (in US) have done something similar I'm sure and they sure are corporate, generating revenue from ADs. What's to say that TL is not like them?
If we are talking about pennies and dimes, Fomos should understand that unlike Chinese sites where Korean law may be superior or something, having a conflict with an American (US) news/media organization is different because it'll fall under US law then. And as I heard it, US law beats any other laws if the conflict is between US and some other country and the conflict situation is in US (and it is seeing how Fomos is waging a conflict to TL, a US origin).
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Typical business bullshit, they don't need our content anymore so they'll now want us to take down the stuff we took from them. Sigh
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quite a shame that fomos now went there too...
well, at least you can still relate the general story.
and hey, fomos comes now with its own english translation at least
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"Examples of fair use include commentary, criticism, news reporting, research, teaching, library archiving and scholarship."
What's the exact definition of news reporting in this case?
On May 30 2011 02:25 zeru wrote:
So this goes only for TL? So translators from here can open up a bloggish site of some sort and post translations of interviews there?
In this case, yes if they have permission from fomos (highly unlikely). Their stuff might get taken down if it is discovered.
Rules state: No fomos translation on TL, no pictures/etc from fomos on TL.
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On May 30 2011 02:27 supernovamaniac wrote:
"Examples of fair use include commentary, criticism, news reporting, research, teaching, library archiving and scholarship."
What's the exact definition of news reporting in this case?
Lol, just when I was about to reply I noticed the quick ninja edit. :D
Now in terms of news reporting, don't you think the comments or the side personal words of the OP (or the translator) count as news reporting? Sure we're using footage of another but it's not all 100% direct footage since we have even that 1% of news reporting.
And in my view, the side commentaries that OP make in beginning or end of translations or news threads and even those small "Translation Notes" that TL translators often do during interviews can definitely count as "news reporting" or at least "commentary" as well as "criticism" which is also good to go under the "Fair Use" doctrine under the US Law.
And news sites or news articles/reporting definitely do have commentary and criticism as well. (i.e. Movie Reviews)
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To everyone saying "under US law, TL can do this and this and this"
Yes, they probably could, but why would TL want to get in a potential lawsuit with Fomos which would turn out ugly. They're requesting we stop out of respect for Fomos
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On May 30 2011 02:36 awu25 wrote:
To everyone saying "under US law, TL can do this and this and this"
Yes, they probably could, but why would TL want to get in a potential lawsuit with Fomos which would turn out ugly. They're requesting we stop out of respect for Fomos
I'm simply addressing and laying out possibilities and discussions for everyone to think and comment on. I'm not telling TL to do this or that, simply generating some words of mouth and expression for others to view and discuss.
As for respect for Fomos, my personal opinion (as well as others I've seen back earlier in the threads) is that we have done in respect with translation citing the original source of our "deviated/original work" (personal TL English translations) to its origin (Fomos website link of article). But when Fomos did that, they did not link our "original/deviated" work back to its origin (TL thread). So in that regards, they cut off respect first. That's my 2 cents there.
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On May 30 2011 02:33 QuickStriker wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2011 02:27 supernovamaniac wrote:
"Examples of fair use include commentary, criticism, news reporting, research, teaching, library archiving and scholarship."
What's the exact definition of news reporting in this case? Lol, just when I was about to reply I noticed the quick ninja edit. :D Now in terms of news reporting, don't you think the comments or the side personal words of the OP (or the translator) count as news reporting? Sure we're using footage of another but it's not all 100% direct footage since we have even that 1% of news reporting. And in my view, the side commentaries that OP make in beginning or end of translations or news threads and even those small " Translation Notes" that TL translators often do can definitely count as news reporting or at least " commentary" as well as " criticism" which is also ok in "fair use".
To the first bolded statement: Yes, but the news reporting would only count towards the side comments/personal words, not the translations itself. It's like saying I took Epik High's song and added 2 beats at the end that I have created, thus resulting in a new work.
In terms of criticism, they are posted along the translated content. But however, they only take the segment of the interviews/translations in order to do so. They don't copy the whole thing and then start making the comment; most people only take sections of the video/news/etc. to criticize. For example, Stephen Colbert didn't need the whole segment of the news footage from CNN to report that Bin Laden loved Nestle and Coke/Pepsi.
Sure, the commentaries and news reporting (side comments) fall under fair use. The translations, however, is in the gray area. And according to fomos, it does not fall under fair use.
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On May 30 2011 02:39 QuickStriker wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2011 02:36 awu25 wrote:
To everyone saying "under US law, TL can do this and this and this"
Yes, they probably could, but why would TL want to get in a potential lawsuit with Fomos which would turn out ugly. They're requesting we stop out of respect for Fomos I'm simply addressing and laying out possibilities and discussions for everyone to think and comment on. I'm not telling TL to do this or that, simply generating some words of mouth and expression for others to view and discuss. As for respect for Fomos, my personal opinion (as well as others I've seen back earlier in the threads) is that we have done in respect with translation citing the original source of our " deviated/original work" (personal TL English translations) to its origin (Fomos website link of article). But when Fomos did that, they did not link our " original/deviated" work back to its origin (TL thread). So in that regards, they cut off respect first. That's my 2 cents there.
TL Translators: Did they just steal our work? Fuck you SDM
SDM: Fuck you, you've been stealing fomos's works for centuries, and I'm just taking back what is rightfully mine/fomos's.
TL Translators: Wait what?
OFC, this is all that I know about the situation. Mods probably know the actual/behind story, but even then they shouldn't discuss it.
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On May 30 2011 02:40 supernovamaniac wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2011 02:33 QuickStriker wrote:On May 30 2011 02:27 supernovamaniac wrote:
"Examples of fair use include commentary, criticism, news reporting, research, teaching, library archiving and scholarship."
What's the exact definition of news reporting in this case? Lol, just when I was about to reply I noticed the quick ninja edit. :D Now in terms of news reporting, don't you think the comments or the side personal words of the OP (or the translator) count as news reporting? Sure we're using footage of another but it's not all 100% direct footage since we have even that 1% of news reporting. And in my view, the side commentaries that OP make in beginning or end of translations or news threads and even those small " Translation Notes" that TL translators often do can definitely count as news reporting or at least " commentary" as well as " criticism" which is also ok in "fair use". To the first bolded statement: Yes, but the news reporting would only count towards the side comments/personal words, not the translations itself. It's like saying I took Epik High's song and added 2 beats at the end that I have created, thus resulting in a new work. In terms of criticism, they are posted along the translated content. But however, they only take the segment of the interviews/translations in order to do so. They don't copy the whole thing and then start making the comment; most people only take sections of the video/news/etc. to criticize. For example, Stephen Colbert didn't need the whole segment of the news footage from CNN to report that Bin Laden loved Nestle and Coke/Pepsi. Sure, the commentaries and news reporting (side comments) fall under fair use. The translations, however, is in the gray area. And according to fomos, it does not fall under fair use.
In my opinion, this is all in the gray area like you said. Maybe because I never seen such unique case here nor heard of it in my mass media law or other law classes I've taken but, fair use can be taken in many different meanings and it's common practice for corporations and companies in US to take advantage of such loopholes they find or possibly something here until the fullest extent and be ok with it until the US Supreme Court or US law changes. What's to say TL can't follow what others do?
And in terms of fomos, I don't think they (Fomos) know US law nor know the whole idea of "fair use". Again I'm not 100% sure or right but seeing a Korean company In Korea know US law much more so than Korean law isn't common since they'll try to take it to only their nation's law. Except the conflict takes place in US now so US law endures.
Also as for "translations", like I said, I believe it's an deviated or original work of TL translators. Because think about this, there are so many different translations of the Bible in this world. Does that mean every translation committed a crime? They're not even all the exact same words at times. And in a sense, that's where the idea of "Fair Use" takes place.
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I thought it was fine as long as you cite the source of your work.
i am not an expert on copyright laws and pagiarism but i honestly always thought you can do this as long as you say where the source is from etc.
this would mean that much of the literature work you do at school is subject to the same copyright laws which doesnt seem right.
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On May 30 2011 02:45 QuickStriker wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2011 02:40 supernovamaniac wrote:On May 30 2011 02:33 QuickStriker wrote:On May 30 2011 02:27 supernovamaniac wrote:
"Examples of fair use include commentary, criticism, news reporting, research, teaching, library archiving and scholarship."
What's the exact definition of news reporting in this case? Lol, just when I was about to reply I noticed the quick ninja edit. :D Now in terms of news reporting, don't you think the comments or the side personal words of the OP (or the translator) count as news reporting? Sure we're using footage of another but it's not all 100% direct footage since we have even that 1% of news reporting. And in my view, the side commentaries that OP make in beginning or end of translations or news threads and even those small " Translation Notes" that TL translators often do can definitely count as news reporting or at least " commentary" as well as " criticism" which is also ok in "fair use". To the first bolded statement: Yes, but the news reporting would only count towards the side comments/personal words, not the translations itself. It's like saying I took Epik High's song and added 2 beats at the end that I have created, thus resulting in a new work. In terms of criticism, they are posted along the translated content. But however, they only take the segment of the interviews/translations in order to do so. They don't copy the whole thing and then start making the comment; most people only take sections of the video/news/etc. to criticize. For example, Stephen Colbert didn't need the whole segment of the news footage from CNN to report that Bin Laden loved Nestle and Coke/Pepsi. Sure, the commentaries and news reporting (side comments) fall under fair use. The translations, however, is in the gray area. And according to fomos, it does not fall under fair use. In my opinion, this is all in the gray area like you said. Maybe because I never seen such unique case here nor heard of it in my mass media law or other law classes I've taken but, fair use can be taken in many different meanings and it's common practice for corporations and companies in US to take advantage of such loopholes they find or possibly something here until the fullest extent and be ok with it until the US Supreme Court or US law changes. What's to say TL can't follow what others do? And in terms of fomos, I don't think they (Fomos) know US law nor know the whole idea of "fair use". Again I'm not 100% sure or right but seeing a Korean company In Korea know US law much more so than Korean law isn't common since they'll try to take it to only their nation's law. Except the conflict takes place in US now so US law endures.
Remember: This always depends on the country they take the legal action in. In this case, it might be where TL server is located (which is not US). But I don't see any legal action happening over this "small" case.
On May 30 2011 02:48 Artimo wrote:
I thought it was fine as long as you cite the source of your work.
i am not an expert on copyright laws and pagiarism but i honestly always thought you can do this as long as you say where the source is from etc.
this would mean that much of the literature work you do at school is subject to the same copyright laws which doesnt seem right.
What do you mean by 'literature work' in school?
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On May 30 2011 02:49 supernovamaniac wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2011 02:45 QuickStriker wrote:On May 30 2011 02:40 supernovamaniac wrote:On May 30 2011 02:33 QuickStriker wrote:On May 30 2011 02:27 supernovamaniac wrote:
"Examples of fair use include commentary, criticism, news reporting, research, teaching, library archiving and scholarship."
What's the exact definition of news reporting in this case? Lol, just when I was about to reply I noticed the quick ninja edit. :D Now in terms of news reporting, don't you think the comments or the side personal words of the OP (or the translator) count as news reporting? Sure we're using footage of another but it's not all 100% direct footage since we have even that 1% of news reporting. And in my view, the side commentaries that OP make in beginning or end of translations or news threads and even those small " Translation Notes" that TL translators often do can definitely count as news reporting or at least " commentary" as well as " criticism" which is also ok in "fair use". To the first bolded statement: Yes, but the news reporting would only count towards the side comments/personal words, not the translations itself. It's like saying I took Epik High's song and added 2 beats at the end that I have created, thus resulting in a new work. In terms of criticism, they are posted along the translated content. But however, they only take the segment of the interviews/translations in order to do so. They don't copy the whole thing and then start making the comment; most people only take sections of the video/news/etc. to criticize. For example, Stephen Colbert didn't need the whole segment of the news footage from CNN to report that Bin Laden loved Nestle and Coke/Pepsi. Sure, the commentaries and news reporting (side comments) fall under fair use. The translations, however, is in the gray area. And according to fomos, it does not fall under fair use. In my opinion, this is all in the gray area like you said. Maybe because I never seen such unique case here nor heard of it in my mass media law or other law classes I've taken but, fair use can be taken in many different meanings and it's common practice for corporations and companies in US to take advantage of such loopholes they find or possibly something here until the fullest extent and be ok with it until the US Supreme Court or US law changes. What's to say TL can't follow what others do? And in terms of fomos, I don't think they (Fomos) know US law nor know the whole idea of "fair use". Again I'm not 100% sure or right but seeing a Korean company In Korea know US law much more so than Korean law isn't common since they'll try to take it to only their nation's law. Except the conflict takes place in US now so US law endures. Remember: This always depends on the country they take the legal action in. In this case, it might be where TL server is located (which is not US). But I don't see any legal action happening over this "small" case. Show nested quote +On May 30 2011 02:48 Artimo wrote:
I thought it was fine as long as you cite the source of your work.
i am not an expert on copyright laws and pagiarism but i honestly always thought you can do this as long as you say where the source is from etc.
this would mean that much of the literature work you do at school is subject to the same copyright laws which doesnt seem right. What do you mean by 'literature work' in school?
I definitely checked just now and TL server is in US including its IP.
As for legal action, even if it's Korea to US, it's by the defendant area than the plaintiff no? Blizzard vs OGN/MBC/Kespa certainly took place in Korea but here, it's Fomos to TL (Korea -> US)
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EPT
