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Your list of problems are all moot.
If Fomos is stealing articles from other sources. It is their problems. One wrong doesn't justify another. Your few links can't compare to the amount of content on the Broodwar's section that's taken from FOMOS.
My point was not to justify our stance. I have already told you that we understand Fomos has absolute right over their work, which is why... this thread even exists to begin with.
Maybe if you were actually intelligent as you have claimed you were you would realize that these issues are separate from whether or not Fomos is "right" on the matter or not, and it's just outrage over other issues closer to "Fomos, you suck for doing this", "lol fomos hypocrites". No one here is saying Fomos is wrong for doing this to begin with. We're just saying Fomos is a little bitch for doing this all the while keeping up with their share of bullshit.
And the quality of translation doesn't matter. Whether you stick it in to google translate or you take time to translate it wonderfully, you're still taking making profits off of it without permission from the owners.
For someone who claims to be so intelligent i think you might need to retake reading comprehension or something because that has nothing to do with anything at all
Also, please point out where I insulted all the work you have ever done? Or where I disregarded all contributions to the foreign scene? Goddamn you're so sensitive, I'm scared that you will legit begin to cry and send me deaththreats if i make another post.
Why else would you put contribution in quotations? Since you claim the intelligence high ground all over, I'm sure you're familiar with such use of quotations. But of course, you go straight into denial mode and make me out to be the sensitive one, when I'm just giving you a matter of fact interpretation of your previous post.
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On May 29 2011 14:25 Ambasa wrote:Show nested quote +Your list of problems are all moot.
If Fomos is stealing articles from other sources. It is their problems. One wrong doesn't justify another. Your few links can't compare to the amount of content on the Broodwar's section that's taken from FOMOS. My point was not to justify our stance. I have already told you that we understand Fomos has absolute right over their work, which is why... this thread even exists to begin with. Maybe if you were actually intelligent as you have claimed you were you would realize that these issues are separate from whether or not Fomos is "right" on the matter or not, and it's just outrage over other issues closer to "Fomos, you suck for doing this", "lol fomos hypocrites". No one here is saying Fomos is wrong for doing this to begin with. We're just saying Fomos is a little bitch for doing this all the while keeping up with their share of bullshit. Show nested quote +And the quality of translation doesn't matter. Whether you stick it in to google translate or you take time to translate it wonderfully, you're still taking making profits off of it without permission from the owners. For someone who claims to be so intelligent i think you might need to retake reading comprehension or something because that has nothing to do with anything at all Show nested quote +Also, please point out where I insulted all the work you have ever done? Or where I disregarded all contributions to the foreign scene? Goddamn you're so sensitive, I'm scared that you will legit begin to cry and send me deaththreats if i make another post. Why else would you put contribution in quotations? Since you claim the intelligence high ground all over, I'm sure you're familiar with such use of quotations. But of course, you go straight into denial mode and make me out to be the sensitive one, when I'm just giving you a matter of fact interpretation of your previous post.
If you're going to keep this up, take it to PMs. IMO you guys are both being overly dramatic on the issue.
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Fenrax
United States5018 Posts
What is their motivation: I see three possibilites:
a) they severely overestimate the popularity of BW outside of Korea and the possible hits for their site. I doubt at the current state that there would be any kind of revenue gain for their site and even if it will certainly be not more than a handful of dollars a year. I doubt that they are stupid but it is possible.
b) they want to harm TL and/or BW. I do not believe that.
c) they want to compete with TL: if that is the case it would be positive. Atm TL has a monopoly on BW outside of Korea and a strong competitor could only be a good thing just because monopolys usually have big disadvantages. I have not seen any disadvantage of TL so far (this site is REALLY good) but a second website would not harm. And even though the odds are massively against Fomos why not at least give them a chance.
So my opinion after I was done with my nerd rage that this is positive news. They wouldn't do this if they didn't care about BW.
So my opinion is:
Visit Fomos. Contribute there. Translators translate their interviews for their site. Readers read the interviews there after TL linked you there, that is good for both.
Give their English section a chance to become #2 behind TL and if they fail you still have TL. And a bit of competition has never harmed anyone, TL is still so far ahead but it is lonely on the top.
Their English section will most likely fail but that is not the point. They want to try to create something and we as the community should give them a chance.
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On May 29 2011 13:22 FakePlasticLove wrote:
It is not the same at all. People actually come to Teamliquid to check out the interviews and pictures from Fomos. Teamliquid is generating profits through viewers and ads because of these articles taken without permission from Fomos. How hard is that to understand?
That's right. The reason I registered an account and visit teamliquid everyday is to view fomos content, nothing else.
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On May 29 2011 14:26 Fenrax wrote:
What is their motivation: I see three possibilites:
a) they severely overestimate the popularity of BW outside of Korea and the possible hits for their site. I doubt at the current state that there would be any kind of revenue gain for their site and even if it will certainly be not more than a handful of dollars a year. I doubt that they are stupid but it is possible.
b) they want to harm TL and/or BW. I do not believe that.
c) they want to compete with TL: if that is the case it would be positive. Atm TL has a monopoly on BW outside of Korea and a strong competitor could only be a good thing just because monopolys usually have big disadvantages. I have not seen any disadvantage of TL so far (this site is REALLY good) but a second website would not harm. And even though the odds are massively against Fomos why not at least give them a chance.
So my opinion after I was done with my nerd rage that this is positive news. They wouldn't do this if they didn't care about BW.
So my opinion is:
Visit Fomos. Contribute there. Translators translate their interviews for their site. Readers read the interviews there after TL linked you there. Give their English section a chance to become #2 after TL and if they fail you still have TL. And a bit of competition has never harmed anyone, TL is still so far ahead but it is lonely on the top.
2 is out of question. No one wants to do that.
In fact, Fomos stopped covering SC2 after few months (or even weeks). They focus on BW, just like DES.
Also, I don't know who actually brought up the question from Fomos's side, but everything was fine before SDM started the global page. Given that, we called him out for stealing our article, and he backfires at us.
3 would be your best bet.
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Fenrax
United States5018 Posts
On May 29 2011 14:29 supernovamaniac wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2011 14:26 Fenrax wrote:
What is their motivation: I see three possibilites:
a) they severely overestimate the popularity of BW outside of Korea and the possible hits for their site. I doubt at the current state that there would be any kind of revenue gain for their site and even if it will certainly be not more than a handful of dollars a year. I doubt that they are stupid but it is possible.
b) they want to harm TL and/or BW. I do not believe that.
c) they want to compete with TL: if that is the case it would be positive. Atm TL has a monopoly on BW outside of Korea and a strong competitor could only be a good thing just because monopolys usually have big disadvantages. I have not seen any disadvantage of TL so far (this site is REALLY good) but a second website would not harm. And even though the odds are massively against Fomos why not at least give them a chance.
So my opinion after I was done with my nerd rage that this is positive news. They wouldn't do this if they didn't care about BW.
So my opinion is:
Visit Fomos. Contribute there. Translators translate their interviews for their site. Readers read the interviews there after TL linked you there. Give their English section a chance to become #2 after TL and if they fail you still have TL. And a bit of competition has never harmed anyone, TL is still so far ahead but it is lonely on the top. 2 is out of question. No one wants to do that. In fact, Fomos stopped covering SC2 after few months (or even weeks). They focus on BW, just like DES. Also, I don't know who actually brought up the question from Fomos's side, but everything was fine before SDM started the global page. Given that, we called him out for stealing our article, and he backfires at us. 3 would be your best bet.
The way you say it it would be 2 actually. Backfiring at TL means wanting to harm TL (and BW with that).
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In fact, Fomos stopped covering SC2 after few months (or even weeks). They focus on BW, just like DES.
Cause Shim Hyun quit fomos and went to Thisisgame. There was a lot of drama over this, btw.
Also, I don't know who actually brought up the question from Fomos's side, but everything was fine before SDM started the global page. Given that, we called him out for stealing our article, and he backfires at us.
That's not how it went along but I can't really say anything else about the situation so let's leave it at that.
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On May 29 2011 14:33 Fenrax wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2011 14:29 supernovamaniac wrote:On May 29 2011 14:26 Fenrax wrote:
What is their motivation: I see three possibilites:
a) they severely overestimate the popularity of BW outside of Korea and the possible hits for their site. I doubt at the current state that there would be any kind of revenue gain for their site and even if it will certainly be not more than a handful of dollars a year. I doubt that they are stupid but it is possible.
b) they want to harm TL and/or BW. I do not believe that.
c) they want to compete with TL: if that is the case it would be positive. Atm TL has a monopoly on BW outside of Korea and a strong competitor could only be a good thing just because monopolys usually have big disadvantages. I have not seen any disadvantage of TL so far (this site is REALLY good) but a second website would not harm. And even though the odds are massively against Fomos why not at least give them a chance.
So my opinion after I was done with my nerd rage that this is positive news. They wouldn't do this if they didn't care about BW.
So my opinion is:
Visit Fomos. Contribute there. Translators translate their interviews for their site. Readers read the interviews there after TL linked you there. Give their English section a chance to become #2 after TL and if they fail you still have TL. And a bit of competition has never harmed anyone, TL is still so far ahead but it is lonely on the top. 2 is out of question. No one wants to do that. In fact, Fomos stopped covering SC2 after few months (or even weeks). They focus on BW, just like DES. Also, I don't know who actually brought up the question from Fomos's side, but everything was fine before SDM started the global page. Given that, we called him out for stealing our article, and he backfires at us. 3 would be your best bet. The way you say it it would be 2 actually. Backfiring at TL means wanting to harm TL (and BW with that).
I was thinking more about hurting BW than hurting TL. In that sense, you're right. However, SDM doesn't really want to hurt BW scene overall (or at least that was the impression when I volunteered). He just wanted to create fomos global page that would become part of 'something bigger.' Too bad that it never happened (global page is pretty much dead; lots of posts but no views), and now this shit happened.
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On May 29 2011 14:34 Ambasa wrote:Show nested quote +In fact, Fomos stopped covering SC2 after few months (or even weeks). They focus on BW, just like DES. Cause Shim Hyun quit fomos and went to Thisisgame. There was a lot of drama over this, btw. Show nested quote +Also, I don't know who actually brought up the question from Fomos's side, but everything was fine before SDM started the global page. Given that, we called him out for stealing our article, and he backfires at us. That's not how it went along but I can't really say anything else about the situation so let's leave it at that.
Cause Shim Hyun quit fomos and went to Thisisgame. There was a lot of drama over this, btw.
How the fuck did I forget this?
Thanks for the correction/additional info.
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Fenrax
United States5018 Posts
On May 29 2011 14:35 supernovamaniac wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2011 14:33 Fenrax wrote:On May 29 2011 14:29 supernovamaniac wrote:On May 29 2011 14:26 Fenrax wrote:
What is their motivation: I see three possibilites:
a) they severely overestimate the popularity of BW outside of Korea and the possible hits for their site. I doubt at the current state that there would be any kind of revenue gain for their site and even if it will certainly be not more than a handful of dollars a year. I doubt that they are stupid but it is possible.
b) they want to harm TL and/or BW. I do not believe that.
c) they want to compete with TL: if that is the case it would be positive. Atm TL has a monopoly on BW outside of Korea and a strong competitor could only be a good thing just because monopolys usually have big disadvantages. I have not seen any disadvantage of TL so far (this site is REALLY good) but a second website would not harm. And even though the odds are massively against Fomos why not at least give them a chance.
So my opinion after I was done with my nerd rage that this is positive news. They wouldn't do this if they didn't care about BW.
So my opinion is:
Visit Fomos. Contribute there. Translators translate their interviews for their site. Readers read the interviews there after TL linked you there. Give their English section a chance to become #2 after TL and if they fail you still have TL. And a bit of competition has never harmed anyone, TL is still so far ahead but it is lonely on the top. 2 is out of question. No one wants to do that. In fact, Fomos stopped covering SC2 after few months (or even weeks). They focus on BW, just like DES. Also, I don't know who actually brought up the question from Fomos's side, but everything was fine before SDM started the global page. Given that, we called him out for stealing our article, and he backfires at us. 3 would be your best bet. The way you say it it would be 2 actually. Backfiring at TL means wanting to harm TL (and BW with that). I was thinking more about hurting BW than hurting TL. In that sense, you're right. However, SDM doesn't really want to hurt BW scene overall (or at least that was the impression when I volunteered). He just wanted to create fomos global page that would become part of 'something bigger.' Too bad that it never happened (global page is pretty much dead; lots of posts but no views), and now this shit happened.
So it is either revenge or a last attempt to attract foreign viewers for Fomos Global.
IMO as long as we don't know for sure what it is we should just try and assume the better alternative and give Fomos Global a chance. For example I was at Fomos Global for the first time this morning because of this.
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Why is fomos not smart enough to partner with TL, or vice versa?
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On May 29 2011 15:17 bubblegumbo wrote:
Why is fomos not smart enough to partner with TL, or vice versa?
yeah seems like there would be a lot to gain with a fomos TL partnership..
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Canada11350 Posts
Bleh, this absolutely sucks. I really hope DES has as much coverage as Fomos. I really want to like SDM because of his GOMTV casting with Tasteless and coaching before, but he had a hand in this nonsense...
The only thing that kinda makes sense is that they think TL's foreign community is somehow a threat to their global section. But honestly, the faster they realize the foreign scene is dead with a few of us diehards left the faster they should realize this is nothing but crappiness all around. Fomos will never capture tens of thousands of foreign fans when the rest of the world 'gets' BW. The ones left will continue to 'get' BW, but SC2 is where it's at for foreigners. And I for one am not going to start frequenting Fomos for interviews. Especially after this move by Fomos.
I just can't believe they have the gall to pull this on TL while they keep copy/pasted translations on their own site without giving credit. TL's own translations are not even a similar situation. Our volunteers are actually translating, which is value adding. It's not a simple copy/paste.
Fomos: staff articles, copy/paste, no credit/links
TL: volunteer forum members, original translation, credit and links
The two scenarios are not even similar and I don't understand the Fomos apologists.
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From a legal perspective, TL can be held liable for contributory copyright infringement for allowing posting of copyrighted articles on the site. People don't often realize this, but TL is a business (a corporation!) and it derives revenue from people clicking on the ads and visiting the website. I could go into the tests for vicarious and contributory copyright infringement, but TL under these facts would be opening itself to liability by allowing the posts.
@ Ambasia you kind of LOL at this "And the quality of translation doesn't matter. Whether you stick it in to google translate or you take time to translate it wonderfully, you're still taking making profits off of it without permission from the owners."
I am not sure if you think it is incorrect or merely irrelevant, from a relevancy standpoint that makes more sense. However, under copyright law, translations of this type are generally considered unauthorized derivative works, which opens oneself up a party to liability for copyright infringment, because the translation embodies a significant amount of protected expression from the underlying work.
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51451 Posts
On May 29 2011 15:17 bubblegumbo wrote:
Why is fomos not smart enough to partner with TL, or vice versa?
On May 28 2011 08:00 Waxangel wrote:we've spoken with Fomos, things just didn't work out.
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Russian Federation905 Posts
copyrifght is horrible sometimes
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I understand, but I still feel really shitty :/.
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1. You can always copypaste superdanielman's "Translation". That isn't copyright infrigement, according to the OP.
2. To anyone worrying about NaDa's body: I made a back up with as good as all the pictures in it, will sort the pictures out and post it in about a week.
3. Can teamliquid please call SDM's bluff? Because seriously, the Fomos Global, or "SDM's playground" is one of the worst sites I have ever seen. You make a site for global people, and don't localize it? Way to go.
And of course, TL is a lazy site. Very lazy. So if fomos doesn't give the exact post links, for every post image, TL can't remove it. Right? We all have a real life.
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How much ad money even still exists to be milked from the Brood War English-speaking fanbase? I hate to admit it but there aren't that many of us left.
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On May 29 2011 16:31 Hinanawi wrote:
How much ad money even still exists to be milked from the Brood War English-speaking fanbase? I hate to admit it but there aren't that many of us left.
They don't even really have ads for non-Koreans on their site.
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EPT
