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1019 Posts
To the people angry at fomos, instead of bitching at them, we need to try to understand things from their perspective. Some people don't like it when others take their work and use it or distribute it somewhere else. I would be annoyed too, even if it doesn't necessarily hurt me. Someone may take it further than just annoyance, see? And someone mentioned how fomos just has a bunch of korean ads that westerners can't read; well its not just about that. The more viewership and clicks you get on your website, the more money you can make from ads. so whether or not you can read korean doesn't make sense. so fomos may want to make more money from website viewership from foreign communities.
I don't know if fomos is being anal like this from a purely business standpoint or for some other reason, its their right and its their work - do you guys think just because they get BW news up real quick they don't do any work for it? - so they can do what they want with it. And plus, TL has been taking stuff from fomos this entire time and it technically is blatant stealing/plagirism even if we cite or whatnot. So it's not like TL hasn't done anything wrong either.
I personally read fomos and not DES because fomos tbh is a lot more fun and interesting. But DES has match interviews and are updated pretty quickly and unless they want to be dicks too, it's not like the foreign BW community is going to blow up or something because people will still be able to translate interviews
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On May 29 2011 05:35 Antisocialmunky wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2011 04:15 travis wrote:
Can't people just upload translations to another site, and then link to it..? That's why I asked, no one replied.
Then I have to assume the answer is yes 
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So this is SDM's job? Does he think he will make more people come to fomos and read his arcticles this way? Is he doing it out of spite? Isn't he quite delusional about popularity of BW outside of Korea?
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On May 29 2011 05:35 Antisocialmunky wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2011 04:15 travis wrote:
Can't people just upload translations to another site, and then link to it..? That's why I asked, no one replied.
From a pure legal perspective it should work. It' similiar to thepiratebay who dont really host the content (movies, games, ...) but only provide links (to the torrentfiles) to it.
I know from German websites, that something like this is useful:
+ Show Spoiler +Haftungshinweis: Trotz sorgfältiger inhaltlicher Kontrolle übernehmen wir keine Haftung für die Inhalte externer Links. Für den Inhalt der verlinkten Seiten sind ausschließlich deren Betreiber verantwortlich.
("liability note: even though we visit the content, we cannot be held responsible for the content of external links. Only the operators of linked sites are responsible for said content").
So the operator of the "other site" where the translations are uploaded might get (legal) trouble with fomos.
But (!) we (and TL) know this is only to circumvent the restrictions. If TL would allow those links they would do something which fomos doesnt like and still allow it. They probably would remove those links out of courtesy to fomos (similiar how they remove links to restreams of gomtv).
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Super daniel man's a piece of shit from the sound of things. This really sucks. Does someone wanna make a site where people can post the translations and then we can just link to there from TL?
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Ok so I hate to be the one to betray TL.net ;_;
but can someone post a link to the site they are partnering with... Doesn't this just mean in the LR thread after the matches are done someone sticks the link to this chinese site that is doing work for us?
I really hope that we don't have to remove our past interviews though... >.<
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Breaking out the silence.
I'm not going to talk too much details about it, and will only talk about things that I know of.
I said I'll help SDM thinking that it would be great to fomos, in addition to the TL stuff we have. However, out of blue, he steals the translations from TL without any citations. I get confused, but I never brought anything up in our one-on-one conversation. I go through another day with live coverage of the semi-finals (I think), but after that day I started making excuses, telling him that I was busy (Before I started making excuses, SDM offered to pay me, which I replied 'maybe'). After that, I cut off contact with him (SDM if you're reading this now, well, now you know).
Before cutting off contact though, SDM wanted his volunteers to keep fomos's materials only on their site.
Was this SDM's idea or someone else's? We won't know the exact cause 100%, but we can assume based on the current events. And in my point of view, that assumption is probably a good one.
I don't know the details of the negotiations between teamliquid and fomos, so I can't say too much about that.
P.S. What happened in the irc chatroom was stupid; I was being overly dramatic. My apologies Kiante.
P.S.S. If you have any questions, ask away. I will try to answer as best as I can.
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I think TL has a valid defense to keep the works that have already been translated. This is under U.S. Copyright law applying the doctrine of laches (a doctrine that basically says you can't sit on your rights especially if you know infringement has been occurring for awhile):
The doctrine of laches is an equitable doctrine that prevents a plaintiff who “with full knowledge of the facts, acquiesces in a transaction and sleeps upon his rights.” Southern Pac. Co. v. Bogert 250 U.S. 483, 500 (1919). In the copyright context Learned Hand justified the doctrine by stating:
It must be obvious to everyone familiar with equitable
principles that it is inequitable for the owner of a
copyright, with full notice of an intended infringement, to
stand inactive while the proposed infringer spends large
sums of money in its exploitation, and to intervene only
when his speculation has proved a success. Delay under
such circumstances allows the owner to speculate without
risk with the other's money; he cannot possibly lose, and
he may win. Haas v. Leo Feist, Inc., 234 F.105, 108 (S.D.N.Y. 1916).
In the Ninth Circuit the defendant must prove both an unreasonable delay by the plaintiff and prejudice to itself. Basically, I am pretty sure fomos knew for awhile what TL was doing and didn't care and only now it is. It precludes TL from continuing infringement, but for the previous works it seems a little more questionable (not that TL has the money/manpower to litigate this).
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On May 29 2011 07:30 supernovamaniac wrote:
Breaking out the silence.
I'm not going to talk too much details about it, and will only talk about things that I know of.
I said I'll help SDM thinking that it would be great to fomos, in addition to the TL stuff we have. However, out of blue, he steals the translations from TL without any citations. I get confused, but I never brought anything up in our one-on-one conversation. I go through another day with live coverage of the semi-finals (I think), but after that day I started making excuses, telling him that I was busy (Before I started making excuses, SDM offered to pay me, which I replied 'maybe'). After that, I cut off contact with him (SDM if you're reading this now, well, now you know).
Before cutting off contact though, SDM wanted his volunteers to keep fomos's materials only on their site.
Was this SDM's idea or someone else's? We won't know the exact cause 100%, but we can assume based on the current events. And in my point of view, that assumption is probably a good one.
I don't know the details of the negotiations between teamliquid and fomos, so I can't say too much about that.
P.S. What happened in the irc chatroom was stupid; I was being overly dramatic. My apologies Kiante.
P.S.S. If you have any questions, ask away. I will try to answer as best as I can.
Wait what? Did you offer to join FOMOS as a translator? What exactly did you offer to do to help?
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On May 29 2011 07:35 SOB_Maj_Brian wrote:
I think TL has a valid defense to keep the works that have already been translated. This is under U.S. Copyright law applying the doctrine of laches (a doctrine that basically says you can't sit on your rights especially if you know infringement has been occurring for awhile):
The doctrine of laches is an equitable doctrine that prevents a plaintiff who “with full knowledge of the facts, acquiesces in a transaction and sleeps upon his rights.” Southern Pac. Co. v. Bogert 250 U.S. 483, 500 (1919). In the copyright context Learned Hand justified the doctrine by stating:
It must be obvious to everyone familiar with equitable
principles that it is inequitable for the owner of a
copyright, with full notice of an intended infringement, to
stand inactive while the proposed infringer spends large
sums of money in its exploitation, and to intervene only
when his speculation has proved a success. Delay under
such circumstances allows the owner to speculate without
risk with the other's money; he cannot possibly lose, and
he may win. Haas v. Leo Feist, Inc., 234 F.105, 108 (S.D.N.Y. 1916).
In the Ninth Circuit the defendant must prove both an unreasonable delay by the plaintiff and prejudice to itself. Basically, I am pretty sure fomos knew for awhile what TL was doing and didn't care and only now it is. It precludes TL from continuing infringement, but for the previous works it seems a little more questionable (not that TL has the money/manpower to litigate this).
Now I know nothing about law, but does US copyright law even apply to this? Or is it korean copyright law?
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On May 29 2011 07:35 SOB_Maj_Brian wrote:
I think TL has a valid defense to keep the works that have already been translated. This is under U.S. Copyright law applying the doctrine of laches (a doctrine that basically says you can't sit on your rights especially if you know infringement has been occurring for awhile):
The doctrine of laches is an equitable doctrine that prevents a plaintiff who “with full knowledge of the facts, acquiesces in a transaction and sleeps upon his rights.” Southern Pac. Co. v. Bogert 250 U.S. 483, 500 (1919). In the copyright context Learned Hand justified the doctrine by stating:
It must be obvious to everyone familiar with equitable
principles that it is inequitable for the owner of a
copyright, with full notice of an intended infringement, to
stand inactive while the proposed infringer spends large
sums of money in its exploitation, and to intervene only
when his speculation has proved a success. Delay under
such circumstances allows the owner to speculate without
risk with the other's money; he cannot possibly lose, and
he may win. Haas v. Leo Feist, Inc., 234 F.105, 108 (S.D.N.Y. 1916).
In the Ninth Circuit the defendant must prove both an unreasonable delay by the plaintiff and prejudice to itself. Basically, I am pretty sure fomos knew for awhile what TL was doing and didn't care and only now it is. It precludes TL from continuing infringement, but for the previous works it seems a little more questionable (not that TL has the money/manpower to litigate this).
Unfortunately, us law doesn't apply to a dispute between a korean company and a dutch website. Even if legal TL doesn't have to respect it, I don't think we would blatantly go against what they want anyway.
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On May 29 2011 07:37 xxpack09 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2011 07:35 SOB_Maj_Brian wrote:
I think TL has a valid defense to keep the works that have already been translated. This is under U.S. Copyright law applying the doctrine of laches (a doctrine that basically says you can't sit on your rights especially if you know infringement has been occurring for awhile):
The doctrine of laches is an equitable doctrine that prevents a plaintiff who “with full knowledge of the facts, acquiesces in a transaction and sleeps upon his rights.” Southern Pac. Co. v. Bogert 250 U.S. 483, 500 (1919). In the copyright context Learned Hand justified the doctrine by stating:
It must be obvious to everyone familiar with equitable
principles that it is inequitable for the owner of a
copyright, with full notice of an intended infringement, to
stand inactive while the proposed infringer spends large
sums of money in its exploitation, and to intervene only
when his speculation has proved a success. Delay under
such circumstances allows the owner to speculate without
risk with the other's money; he cannot possibly lose, and
he may win. Haas v. Leo Feist, Inc., 234 F.105, 108 (S.D.N.Y. 1916).
In the Ninth Circuit the defendant must prove both an unreasonable delay by the plaintiff and prejudice to itself. Basically, I am pretty sure fomos knew for awhile what TL was doing and didn't care and only now it is. It precludes TL from continuing infringement, but for the previous works it seems a little more questionable (not that TL has the money/manpower to litigate this). Now I know nothing about law, but does US copyright law even apply to this? Or is it korean copyright law?
It may or may not be US law, it's definitely not Korean law. We don't live in Korea, after all.
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On May 29 2011 07:36 xxpack09 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2011 07:30 supernovamaniac wrote:
Breaking out the silence.
I'm not going to talk too much details about it, and will only talk about things that I know of.
I said I'll help SDM thinking that it would be great to fomos, in addition to the TL stuff we have. However, out of blue, he steals the translations from TL without any citations. I get confused, but I never brought anything up in our one-on-one conversation. I go through another day with live coverage of the semi-finals (I think), but after that day I started making excuses, telling him that I was busy (Before I started making excuses, SDM offered to pay me, which I replied 'maybe'). After that, I cut off contact with him (SDM if you're reading this now, well, now you know).
Before cutting off contact though, SDM wanted his volunteers to keep fomos's materials only on their site.
Was this SDM's idea or someone else's? We won't know the exact cause 100%, but we can assume based on the current events. And in my point of view, that assumption is probably a good one.
I don't know the details of the negotiations between teamliquid and fomos, so I can't say too much about that.
P.S. What happened in the irc chatroom was stupid; I was being overly dramatic. My apologies Kiante.
P.S.S. If you have any questions, ask away. I will try to answer as best as I can. Wait what? Did you offer to join FOMOS as a translator? What exactly did you offer to do to help?
SDM was looking for volunteers on some translation project, I decided to help him out. This was all before the incident happened.
The basic idea was to help fomos/SDM out on the globals page, which has English articles; translated or written by the English volunteers (that was me). I think I did one translation and one live coverage of the matches. No one was officially 'joining' fomos. However, after some period of time, we were called interns (I pulled out from the 'project' when this happend).
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So this SuperDanialMan is the bad guy now?.. Well im not really sure who he is but it works for me i guess.. I need a bad guy to hate on now anyways.. T_T
Cmon i really hope i wont be missing out on all the Bisu interviews  .. And the Woongjin ones of course
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On May 29 2011 07:46 ffreakk wrote:So this SuperDanialMan is the bad guy now?.. Well im not really sure who he is but it works for me i guess.. I need a bad guy to hate on now anyways.. T_T Cmon i really hope i wont be missing out on all the Bisu interviews .. And the Woongjin ones of course
In my honest opinion, both sides were being 'bad', if you want to put it in that way.
SDM called out on TL stealing fomos stuff, but didn't think that stealing from TL was bad.
Some, if not most, translators on TL called out on SDM for stealing TL stuff, but didn't acknowledge (or didn't know) that using fomos content is not allowed.
In the end, things could've worked out, but it didn't. And here we are.
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On May 29 2011 07:46 supernovamaniac wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2011 07:36 xxpack09 wrote:On May 29 2011 07:30 supernovamaniac wrote:
Breaking out the silence.
I'm not going to talk too much details about it, and will only talk about things that I know of.
I said I'll help SDM thinking that it would be great to fomos, in addition to the TL stuff we have. However, out of blue, he steals the translations from TL without any citations. I get confused, but I never brought anything up in our one-on-one conversation. I go through another day with live coverage of the semi-finals (I think), but after that day I started making excuses, telling him that I was busy (Before I started making excuses, SDM offered to pay me, which I replied 'maybe'). After that, I cut off contact with him (SDM if you're reading this now, well, now you know).
Before cutting off contact though, SDM wanted his volunteers to keep fomos's materials only on their site.
Was this SDM's idea or someone else's? We won't know the exact cause 100%, but we can assume based on the current events. And in my point of view, that assumption is probably a good one.
I don't know the details of the negotiations between teamliquid and fomos, so I can't say too much about that.
P.S. What happened in the irc chatroom was stupid; I was being overly dramatic. My apologies Kiante.
P.S.S. If you have any questions, ask away. I will try to answer as best as I can. Wait what? Did you offer to join FOMOS as a translator? What exactly did you offer to do to help? SDM was looking for volunteers on some translation project, I decided to help him out. This was all before the incident happened. The basic idea was to help fomos/SDM out on the globals page, which has English articles; translated or written by the English volunteers (that was me). I think I did one translation and one live coverage of the matches. No one was officially 'joining' fomos. However, after some period of time, we were called interns (I pulled out from the 'project' when this happend).
And this is why Korea will never be recognized as anything in the world. He's just pulling the typical Korean hierarchical bullshit. If they want to compete with TL for English coverage of BW maybe SDM should learn to write English at higher than a second-grade level.
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On May 29 2011 07:42 Lightwip wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2011 07:37 xxpack09 wrote:On May 29 2011 07:35 SOB_Maj_Brian wrote:
I think TL has a valid defense to keep the works that have already been translated. This is under U.S. Copyright law applying the doctrine of laches (a doctrine that basically says you can't sit on your rights especially if you know infringement has been occurring for awhile):
The doctrine of laches is an equitable doctrine that prevents a plaintiff who “with full knowledge of the facts, acquiesces in a transaction and sleeps upon his rights.” Southern Pac. Co. v. Bogert 250 U.S. 483, 500 (1919). In the copyright context Learned Hand justified the doctrine by stating:
It must be obvious to everyone familiar with equitable
principles that it is inequitable for the owner of a
copyright, with full notice of an intended infringement, to
stand inactive while the proposed infringer spends large
sums of money in its exploitation, and to intervene only
when his speculation has proved a success. Delay under
such circumstances allows the owner to speculate without
risk with the other's money; he cannot possibly lose, and
he may win. Haas v. Leo Feist, Inc., 234 F.105, 108 (S.D.N.Y. 1916).
In the Ninth Circuit the defendant must prove both an unreasonable delay by the plaintiff and prejudice to itself. Basically, I am pretty sure fomos knew for awhile what TL was doing and didn't care and only now it is. It precludes TL from continuing infringement, but for the previous works it seems a little more questionable (not that TL has the money/manpower to litigate this). Now I know nothing about law, but does US copyright law even apply to this? Or is it korean copyright law? It may or may not be US law, it's definitely not Korean law. We don't live in Korea, after all.
I don't think a Korean Court would have jurisdiction over TL, to be honest. A U.S. court definitely would, and fomos certainly can sue in U.S. court. When you look to jurisdiction you have to analyze with respect to the defendant. If TL did stuff in Korea or directed content toward Koreans then it might be different.
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On May 29 2011 07:50 doothegee wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2011 07:46 supernovamaniac wrote:On May 29 2011 07:36 xxpack09 wrote:On May 29 2011 07:30 supernovamaniac wrote:
Breaking out the silence.
I'm not going to talk too much details about it, and will only talk about things that I know of.
I said I'll help SDM thinking that it would be great to fomos, in addition to the TL stuff we have. However, out of blue, he steals the translations from TL without any citations. I get confused, but I never brought anything up in our one-on-one conversation. I go through another day with live coverage of the semi-finals (I think), but after that day I started making excuses, telling him that I was busy (Before I started making excuses, SDM offered to pay me, which I replied 'maybe'). After that, I cut off contact with him (SDM if you're reading this now, well, now you know).
Before cutting off contact though, SDM wanted his volunteers to keep fomos's materials only on their site.
Was this SDM's idea or someone else's? We won't know the exact cause 100%, but we can assume based on the current events. And in my point of view, that assumption is probably a good one.
I don't know the details of the negotiations between teamliquid and fomos, so I can't say too much about that.
P.S. What happened in the irc chatroom was stupid; I was being overly dramatic. My apologies Kiante.
P.S.S. If you have any questions, ask away. I will try to answer as best as I can. Wait what? Did you offer to join FOMOS as a translator? What exactly did you offer to do to help? SDM was looking for volunteers on some translation project, I decided to help him out. This was all before the incident happened. The basic idea was to help fomos/SDM out on the globals page, which has English articles; translated or written by the English volunteers (that was me). I think I did one translation and one live coverage of the matches. No one was officially 'joining' fomos. However, after some period of time, we were called interns (I pulled out from the 'project' when this happend). And this is why Korea will never be recognized as anything in the world. He's just pulling the typical Korean hierarchical bullshit. If they want to compete with TL for English coverage of BW maybe SDM should learn to write English at higher than a second-grade level.
At first, I doubted myself, but the more and more I think about it, you might be right.
(Not the English part though; my English is terribad)
Edit: 2^10th post.
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On May 29 2011 07:53 supernovamaniac wrote:
Edit: 2^10th post.
nice catch dude hahahah
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Well I'm sure as hell against this if it means ANYTHING having to do with NaDa's Body is in trouble.
Fuck, YOU DON'T FUCK WITH NaDa's Body! Nadalites wake up yo!
But I do really hope we can come to an agreement, that we can still at least post funny progamer pictures. Seriously the number one way to kill ANY remaining BW fans it to prevent them from interacting with the content, meaning being able to LOL@ coming of ages interviews, hilarious akward progamer photos, Stork and his mobile phone games.
If you take that away WE WON'T HAVE ANYTHING TO BE FANS WITH, so how and why would we be fans?
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EPT
