On May 09 2011 22:59 Savreth wrote: You know what bothers me most?
Every single pro-BW enthousiast is looking at the game as being superior in every way. Claims of BW being bigger while in essence the game died outside Korea, save for TSL1/2 in past (before I knew about sc). So people are trying to compare a single country of 40 million inhabitants against the rest of the world with 6+ billion inhabitants.
Korea is one country, one small damn country. If the game doesn't hit on there as much, so be it. But the world is more than just "Korea" and "Broodwar".Get off your high horse and accept that people think different. Else you'll eventually turn the BW community into a bunch of less intelligent species.
And no, I didn't play BW. I do intend to play it later but I am tired of the arrogance and bullcrap.
Frankly, I'd like it if another country apart from Korea would rise up, and become the SC2 E-sport country, just leave BW alone is all. I don't care that BW is dead outside of Korea, SC2 can have it all, but not at the cost of BW in Korea.
1 for ESPORTSSS 2 for hurray 3 for more huray. This is incredibly relieving news that ind the end esports flourished because of it, undtill KeSPA and Activision decides to get greedy again (lets hope never :D)
Didn't it take Blizzard like 10 full years to balance BW where it is today? I can't find the youtube link but there is a video that does a timelapse of all the BW balance changes over the years... most of which was pretty imba until recently.
On May 09 2011 22:59 Savreth wrote: You know what bothers me most?
Every single pro-BW enthousiast is looking at the game as being superior in every way. Claims of BW being bigger while in essence the game died outside Korea, save for TSL1/2 in past (before I knew about sc). So people are trying to compare a single country of 40 million inhabitants against the rest of the world with 6+ billion inhabitants.
Korea is one country, one small damn country. If the game doesn't hit on there as much, so be it. But the world is more than just "Korea" and "Broodwar".Get off your high horse and accept that people think different. Else you'll eventually turn the BW community into a bunch of less intelligent species.
And no, I didn't play BW. I do intend to play it later but I am tired of the arrogance and bullcrap.
Frankly, I'd like it if another country apart from Korea would rise up, and become the SC2 E-sport country, just leave BW alone is all. I don't care that BW is dead outside of Korea, SC2 can have it all, but not at the cost of BW in Korea.
On May 09 2011 22:44 Weavel wrote: Awesome news. Maybe Sc:bw and sc2 fans can finally live in peace without the stupid bw vs sc2 wars.
Waiting for an official statement of course...
And I just wanted to say. What wars are you talking about? It's common to say that SC2 is inferior to BW, and I swear to god that it is. Basically even some SC2 players agree. None of them give any serious arguments against this. SC2 users might like to call it a "war" just to lever the value of the game a bit, but it's not so, let's be honest. It's basically just a fact, and (especially if you wish the best to the SC2 scene!) to deny this is really the worst thing you can do to help your favorite game.
I'd recommend ALL of sc2 players learn at least the basics of BW, just to be educated, and then maybe try to watch korean BW streams (though i don't insist on the latter).
Brood War is elite. SC2 is / might become just a good game. There really can be no war between them and between their players, only just discussions. There can be only war between insightful people and aggressive/stupid people, but it doesn't have that much to do with the games they play. =__=
If you want another country where there is insightful Starcraft: Brood War scene and the development of strategy / tournaments - I'll name you this country, it's Russia. Or, let's say more wide, Russian speaking community, including also, as major representatives, Ukraine and Kazakhstan. Often the things that we discuss in our forum then are seen in Korean pro matches and analysis of the game is pretty good too, the good example are coaches of [FR] clan.
On May 09 2011 23:08 eight.BiT wrote: Didn't it take Blizzard like 10 full years to balance BW where it is today? I can't find the youtube link but there is a video that does a timelapse of all the BW balance changes over the years... most of which was pretty imba until recently.
the last actual balance patch(by which I mean balance changes occurred) was around 2002ish.Please stop assuming that it actually took them 10 years to patch BW.
On May 09 2011 23:08 eight.BiT wrote: Didn't it take Blizzard like 10 full years to balance BW where it is today? I can't find the youtube link but there is a video that does a timelapse of all the BW balance changes over the years... most of which was pretty imba until recently.
Nope. They have already released more patches for Sc2 than for broodwar lol.
YES so glad it's finally settled. I hope KeSPA doesn't ever broadcast or promote SC2 though, they will regret it. I don't think anyone I've ever come across who watches and understands both BW and SC2 will ever say that the excitement SC2 brings about is anything worth comparing to BW's. That's probably also the same reason why some SC2ers, especially the very young ones make ridiculously uninformed comments about BW. I mean seriously, just compare a 200 supply zerg vs a 150 supply protoss fight in each SC2 and BW, and you'll get what I mean.
Activision Blizzard... such a joke. All they accomplished with this affair was torpedoing the adaptation of SC2 and the reputation tied to the Blizzard name in Korea.
They obviously don't understand Asia. The Korean scene created something out of nothing - Blizz should have been thankful and humble for that, instead they march in with Texan boots guns blazing and badges flashing "Thanks boys, you've done a fine job, we'll take it from here" - playing the part of the FBI agents who take over a local investigation in a Hollywood movie.
The protective reaction they must have known they'd spark has been detrimental to what could have been a very successful launch of SC2 (they should have put much more focus on the PC bangs) following the Korean Air cooperation (since Korean Air was already very appreciated for their work with BW).
Glad this tragedy has finally come to an end.
As for BW going on - it makes me so happy. The static units are what have me hooked. When watching a BW game, you can see the players in those units. The static, inanimate sprites come to life at the hands of progamers, much like a dead instrument played by a skilled musician.
On May 09 2011 23:12 shucklesors wrote: YES so glad it's finally settled. I hope KeSPA doesn't ever broadcast or promote SC2 though, they will regret it. Why not? I don't think anyone I've ever come across who watches and understands both BW and SC2 will ever say that the excitement SC2 brings about is anything worth comparing to BW's. some are comparable. That's probably also the same reason why some SC2ers, especially the very young ones make ridiculously uninformed comments about BW. they do but,people learn from misinformation. I mean seriously, just compare a 200 supply zerg vs a 150 supply protoss fight in each SC2 and BW, and you'll get what I mean. Don't compare balance of the 2 games,they are the same,yet very much different.
My responses in the quoted post.
the fact that people don't believe in SC2's potential and claim to predict the future is laughable.
On May 09 2011 23:08 eight.BiT wrote: Didn't it take Blizzard like 10 full years to balance BW where it is today? I can't find the youtube link but there is a video that does a timelapse of all the BW balance changes over the years... most of which was pretty imba until recently.
The last balance patch was in 2001.
And lol at the people that bring up the "world wide appeal" of sc2. No one here cares, I've personally been watching a game only one country in the world takes seriously since 2004 and I plan to continue to do so for at least the next ten years.
You come to an incredibly niche community like starcraft and try to bring up shit like appealing to the masses? What a fucking joke.
On May 09 2011 22:59 Savreth wrote: You know what bothers me most?
Every single pro-BW enthousiast is looking at the game as being superior in every way. Claims of BW being bigger while in essence the game died outside Korea, save for TSL1/2 in past (before I knew about sc). So people are trying to compare a single country of 40 million inhabitants against the rest of the world with 6+ billion inhabitants.
Korea is one country, one small damn country. If the game doesn't hit on there as much, so be it. But the world is more than just "Korea" and "Broodwar".Get off your high horse and accept that people think different. Else you'll eventually turn the BW community into a bunch of less intelligent species.
And no, I didn't play BW. I do intend to play it later but I am tired of the arrogance and bullcrap.
Korea is the only country that takes esports seriously on the business and government level. As long as it stays that way, Korea will have a lot to do with the success and failure of all wannabe esports. I challenge you to find a 35 year old non-Korean housewife, who sees it as a serious profession and not something kids do.
On May 09 2011 23:08 eight.BiT wrote: Didn't it take Blizzard like 10 full years to balance BW where it is today? I can't find the youtube link but there is a video that does a timelapse of all the BW balance changes over the years... most of which was pretty imba until recently.
They havent balanced BW since patch 1.08, which was in like 2001.
Looking at this video since I can't find any dates on google.
Says 1.13 was patched 5 different times in 2005. and then 2006 the ladder died.
Personally I think BW is a better game that's more fun to watch, but I have more fun watching SC2 because of how large it's getting. Realistically it's not SC2 or BW, it's either SC2 or nothing.
On May 09 2011 23:12 shucklesors wrote: YES so glad it's finally settled. I hope KeSPA doesn't ever broadcast or promote SC2 though, they will regret it. I don't think anyone I've ever come across who watches and understands both BW and SC2 will ever say that the excitement SC2 brings about is anything worth comparing to BW's. That's probably also the same reason why some SC2ers, especially the very young ones make ridiculously uninformed comments about BW. I mean seriously, just compare a 200 supply zerg vs a 150 supply protoss fight in each SC2 and BW, and you'll get what I mean.
Actually, i get what you mean. In BW, late game army management is actually a skill. In SC2, it's not. Seeing people who hotkey anything that is not a worker or building to 1 becoming SC2 pros, all-killing teams (well, one of those guys all-killed fOu, but fOu isn't even a semi-competent team), winning games, it is just... Well, bizarre. Noone who can appreciate BW would make such comments.
Changing rally points in BW:
Changing rally points in SC2:
Press 4 (all my hatcheries are hotkeyed to 4 in SC2) and then right click.
Great way to start of the day! I didn't think blizzard would end up winning, but it is nice to not have that uglyness looming overhead such a great thing. I hope that BW out lives me.
Although kinda sad to see a bw vs. SC2 debate break out over something that really doesn't have much to do with SC2 at this point.
Edit: Yes, there were patches for years after .08, but .08 was the last one for balance. The others were for minor bugs, ladder inprovemnts, replays, ect.
EPT
and analysis of the game is pretty good too, the good example are coaches of [FR] clan.
