Mod edit: The details on the situation are still a bit murky. Many parties have speculated along the lines of the quoted Fomos article, but nothing is official yet.
"The fight over the intellectual property rights seems to be coming to a close.The dispute between Blizzard and Kespa will be settled amicably as of now, and a license contract will be signed shortly. The scheduled court date on the 13th has been delayed, the reason being the three parties, ongamenet,mbcgame, and Blizzard coming to an agreement.
Three parties are currently discussing the terms for a brighter future of e-sports in Korea. Ongament, and MBCgame will be at liberty to produce and sell starcraft contents, and open starcraft tournaments. Both tv networks have agreed to give exposure to blizzard with the logo, and the license fee will be given to Blizzard each year, the fee is unspecified at this time. Initially Blizzard requested an unreasonable amount of at least \0,00,000,000? a year(proleague-both individual leagues included)and Kespa rejected the offer.
The dispute over the intellectual property rights surfaced when Blizzard gave GOMTV the exclusive rights over starcraft 1 and 2. The agreement is believed to have arrived due to starcraft2’s failure to be embraced by the Korean fans. We can certainly hope that the Korean e-sports looks brighter than ever!"
I won't fully believe it til I see the article better sourced. I saw the tweet from superdanielman and he links to his own news blurb. I'm just skeptical. I believe the stalemate is over, but have a hard time believing it's due to "SC2's failure to be embraced by the Korean fans"
While it's great that they are finally coming to an agreement, that news article/forum post is extremely biased toward KESPA. I would like to see a more neutral announcement (maybe when the deal is actually signed).
On May 09 2011 21:27 Takkara wrote: I won't fully believe it til I see the article better sourced. I saw the tweet from superdanielman and he links to his own news blurb. I'm just skeptical. I believe the stalemate is over, but have a hard time believing it's due to "SC2's failure to be embraced by the Korean fans"
SC2 really isn't all that popular in Korea right now and that might have weakened Blizzard's position enough for them to concede with the belief that an agreement with KeSPA would help in that regard. Their goal is to preserve their place in the Korean eSports scene and promote their products, not to leech off a dying game.
GOMTV still has the right to all broadcasting of SC2 in Korea. They just gave up their SC1 rights like a month ago? So if OGN og MBC wants to do anything SC2 they must pay money to GOMTV. But the likelyhood of that happening is properly bigger now when nobody is sueing them...
they should have no reason to do it, and the games should have different licenses . Good thing though the more money blizzard gets for free the less annoying will their partners be. (the lawyers must have cost a fortune though, but luckily no one cares about that).
On May 09 2011 21:27 Takkara wrote: I won't fully believe it til I see the article better sourced. I saw the tweet from superdanielman and he links to his own news blurb. I'm just skeptical. I believe the stalemate is over, but have a hard time believing it's due to "SC2's failure to be embraced by the Korean fans"
SC2 really isn't all that popular in Korea right now and that might have weakened Blizzard's position enough for them to concede with the belief that an agreement with KeSPA would help in that regard.
In the "what games people are playing in south korean IT-cafés" SC2 have gone from 23 to 15. Its growing but its of course not in the same popularity that scbw is in currently
Victory for Broodwar! Youpiiii. Now, i'm 100% sure we are going to have some MSL/OSL and Proleague for a long time. Also, shouldn't this be posted in the BW forum? This was a Kespa/Blizzard problem.
Haven't alot of progamers said they would hate if Kespa got their fingers in the SC2 pie as it means less money for the players and more money for the sponsors?
Also I feel that the 2 gaming channels will now be able to broadcast SC2 games so we could very well be seeing some tournaments spring up that may be smaller initally than GSL, but which could eventually overtake it
On May 09 2011 21:31 TheSilverfox wrote: Fantastic!
Does this mean that OGN and MBC can broadcast StarCraft II?
GomTV has exclusive rights for SC2 in Korea, they gave back the BW rights a while back when it went to court.
If GomTV wishes to sell rights for SC2 events to OGN/MBC they can do that. If they want to give rights away for free, they can do that. That has never been blocked.
On May 09 2011 21:27 thoradycus wrote: So what woud happen to GOMTV then?
They're probably going to continue broadcasting SC2 in the form of GSL and GSTL, though they probably will no longer have any BW leagues in the foreseeable future. However, they could always pull off that April Fools stunt where they showed a BW game instead of an SC2 game. That was fun.
Anyways, AWESOME to see the Blizzard vs KeSPA war finally come to a close. I wonder what the terms of the agreement will be besides the Blizzard logo and license fees. There were disputes over Blizzard's desire to fully audit KeSPA and give a stricter definition of IP over VODs and replays. I wonder how those terms had worked out...
Nevertheless, when they say "starcraft" content, I assume that it means BW content, so I assume that GOM still has full control over SC2 (unless I'm mistaken). Consequently, non-GOM tournaments may still have to jump through some hoops to get GOM's approval, unless "starcraft contents" also applies to SC2, which would be interesting.
On May 09 2011 21:32 OptimusYale wrote: Haven't alot of progamers said they would hate if Kespa got their fingers in the SC2 pie as it means less money for the players and more money for the sponsors?
Also I feel that the 2 gaming channels will now be able to broadcast SC2 games so we could very well be seeing some tournaments spring up that may be smaller initally than GSL, but which could eventually overtake it
I don't think there's any reason to think that OGN and MBCGame would produce tournaments smaller than the GSL even from the very start. If where they're currently at with BW production values is any indicator, they're capable of producing fantastic tournaments right from the start and actually filling their seats with their existing fanbase. The problem going forward if they were to get involved in SC2 would really be how they decide to resolve the tournament eligibility issue. Hopefully it won't be like BW with the licenses and such...
On May 09 2011 21:35 Dattish wrote: I hope this means the powerhouses of SC1 will move on to SC2 and possibly influence other countries to start their own leagues because of popularity and the fact that the game doesn't look like pixels shooting at each other.
"The fight over the intellectual property rights seems to be coming to a close.The dispute between Blizzard and Kespa will be settled amicably as of now, and a license contract will be signed shortly. The scheduled court date on the 13th has been delayed, the reason being the three parties, ongamenet,mbcgame, and Blizzard coming to an agreement.
Three parties are currently discussing the terms for a brighter future of e-sports in Korea. Ongament, and MBCgame will be at liberty to produce and sell starcraft contents, and open starcraft tournaments. Both tv networks have agreed to give exposure to blizzard with the logo, and the license fee will be given to Blizzard each year, the fee is unspecified at this time. Initially Blizzard requested an unreasonable amount of at least \0,00,000,000? a year(proleague-both individual leagues included)and Kespa rejected the offer.
The dispute over the intellectual property rights surfaced when Blizzard gave GOMTV the exclusive rights over starcraft 1 and 2. The agreement is believed to have arrived due to starcraft2’s failure to be embraced by the Korean fans. We can certainly hope that the Korean e-sports looks brighter than ever!"
#finally
edit: can a mod please edit the headline ("Dispute")
On May 09 2011 21:35 Dattish wrote: I hope this means the powerhouses of SC1 will move on to SC2 and possibly influence other countries to start their own leagues because of popularity and the fact that the game doesn't look like pixels shooting at each other.
What?... this means the opposite...
Eh, it still would be nice to have a bit of crossover between the SC2 and BW scenes. Once the animosity between the authorities of the two scenes dies down, I think it would be healthy for both scenes to start interacting with one another more.
"The fight over the intellectual property rights seems to be coming to a close.The dispute between Blizzard and Kespa will be settled amicably as of now, and a license contract will be signed shortly. The scheduled court date on the 13th has been delayed, the reason being the three parties, ongamenet,mbcgame, and Blizzard coming to an agreement.
Three parties are currently discussing the terms for a brighter future of e-sports in Korea. Ongament, and MBCgame will be at liberty to produce and sell starcraft contents, and open starcraft tournaments. Both tv networks have agreed to give exposure to blizzard with the logo, and the license fee will be given to Blizzard each year, the fee is unspecified at this time. Initially Blizzard requested an unreasonable amount of at least \0,00,000,000? a year(proleague-both individual leagues included)and Kespa rejected the offer.
The dispute over the intellectual property rights surfaced when Blizzard gave GOMTV the exclusive rights over starcraft 1 and 2. The agreement is believed to have arrived due to starcraft2’s failure to be embraced by the Korean fans. We can certainly hope that the Korean e-sports looks brighter than ever!"
#finally
edit: can a mod please edit the headline ("Dispute")
Haha, knew it.
well not that I care,if this makes SC2 a better game then its better no?
I really hope, that Korea will get a lot more attention towards sc2, but still I`d like to have some awesome sc bw action in korea. Sc2 is more or less a game, sc bw is an art
"The fight over the intellectual property rights seems to be coming to a close.The dispute between Blizzard and Kespa will be settled amicably as of now, and a license contract will be signed shortly. The scheduled court date on the 13th has been delayed, the reason being the three parties, ongamenet,mbcgame, and Blizzard coming to an agreement.
Three parties are currently discussing the terms for a brighter future of e-sports in Korea. Ongament, and MBCgame will be at liberty to produce and sell starcraft contents, and open starcraft tournaments. Both tv networks have agreed to give exposure to blizzard with the logo, and the license fee will be given to Blizzard each year, the fee is unspecified at this time. Initially Blizzard requested an unreasonable amount of at least \0,00,000,000? a year(proleague-both individual leagues included)and Kespa rejected the offer.
The dispute over the intellectual property rights surfaced when Blizzard gave GOMTV the exclusive rights over starcraft 1 and 2. The agreement is believed to have arrived due to starcraft2’s failure to be embraced by the Korean fans. We can certainly hope that the Korean e-sports looks brighter than ever!"
#finally
edit: can a mod please edit the headline ("Dispute")
Haha, knew it.
well not that I care,if this makes SC2 a better game then its better no?
Its fine as long as they dont touch BW broadcasting times nor force SC2 down the Koreans throats, which we all know didn't work.
On May 09 2011 21:28 Omegalisk wrote: While it's great that they are finally coming to an agreement, that news article/forum post is extremely biased toward KESPA. I would like to see a more neutral announcement (maybe when the deal is actually signed).
On May 09 2011 21:30 Maliris wrote: Hmm reading over that article again, it is incredibly biased towards kespa.. ;/ SDM doesn't exactly like SC2/blizzard either
You're not going to find a source that's less biased towards KeSPA. Fomos is by far the most Blizzard-friendly e-sports news site. DES and others are far more pro-KeSPA than Fomos, so if you're hoping to see something more neutral, you aren't going to be satisfied.
The agreement is believed to have arrived due to starcraft2’s failure to be embraced by the Korean fans.
rofl. biased much?
...
I think it may just be the truth. SDM visited the startale house some time ago and the players (esp. July) talked pretty open to him. they were sad sc2 didnt get the attention they hoped for and once you are out of GSL, there is nothing in Korea. Lets hope some things change for good now. look here for background infos
On May 09 2011 21:35 Dattish wrote: I hope this means the powerhouses of SC1 will move on to SC2 and possibly influence other countries to start their own leagues because of popularity and the fact that the game doesn't look like pixels shooting at each other.
On May 09 2011 21:28 Omegalisk wrote: While it's great that they are finally coming to an agreement, that news article/forum post is extremely biased toward KESPA. I would like to see a more neutral announcement (maybe when the deal is actually signed).
On May 09 2011 21:30 Maliris wrote: Hmm reading over that article again, it is incredibly biased towards kespa.. ;/ SDM doesn't exactly like SC2/blizzard either
You're not going to find a source that's less biased towards KeSPA. Fomos is by far the most Blizzard-friendly e-sports news site. DES and others are far more pro-KeSPA than Fomos, so if you're hoping to see something more neutral, you aren't going to be satisfied.
PlayXP is more favored towards Blizzard then Fomos tho.
On May 09 2011 21:28 Omegalisk wrote: While it's great that they are finally coming to an agreement, that news article/forum post is extremely biased toward KESPA. I would like to see a more neutral announcement (maybe when the deal is actually signed).
On May 09 2011 21:30 Maliris wrote: Hmm reading over that article again, it is incredibly biased towards kespa.. ;/ SDM doesn't exactly like SC2/blizzard either
You're not going to find a source that's less biased towards KeSPA. Fomos is by far the most Blizzard-friendly e-sports news site. DES and others are far more pro-KeSPA than Fomos, so if you're hoping to see something more neutral, you aren't going to be satisfied.
well, it also depends on the writer. if this was written by daniel lee, as i suspect it to be, he's known to be pretty strongly pro-kespa and anti-sc2
Hope this means the SC1 pros will move on to SC2 soon! Times are changing, get on the with the change, and embrace it. Stop living in the past, Flash. :D
On May 09 2011 21:28 Omegalisk wrote: While it's great that they are finally coming to an agreement, that news article/forum post is extremely biased toward KESPA. I would like to see a more neutral announcement (maybe when the deal is actually signed).
On May 09 2011 21:30 Maliris wrote: Hmm reading over that article again, it is incredibly biased towards kespa.. ;/ SDM doesn't exactly like SC2/blizzard either
You're not going to find a source that's less biased towards KeSPA. Fomos is by far the most Blizzard-friendly e-sports news site. DES and others are far more pro-KeSPA than Fomos, so if you're hoping to see something more neutral, you aren't going to be satisfied.
The point of bias isn't so much that it's against SC2, but that it's an unsourced claim relative to the story. It's not "sources close to the negotiation" it's not "Blizzard has said" it's not even "Kespa has said", it's "believed to have arrived due to SC2's failure to be embraced".
Who is the one who believes this to be true? It could just be an imprecise translation into English, but it makes the article sound like it is either the author or webizens that believe that, which could be far from the truth.
That's why I said I believe the stalemate is over, but will wait to see the real reason why.
The agreement is believed to have arrived due to starcraft2’s failure to be embraced by the Korean fans.
This I have a really hard time believing. Since by signing the contract they are subject to renewals (major point of contension) and it comes with obligations to put a Blizzard logo on everything they produce and likely with secondary obligation to not bad mouth any Blizzard products. However I don't think either party at this point wanted this to go to trial.
This is worth a whole lot more to Blizzard than the paltry Licensing fees, so my guess is that Blizzard might have slacked on some other terms in light of Foreign SC2 having a good scene building.
On May 09 2011 21:45 ShootingStars wrote: Hope this means the SC1 pros will move on to SC2 soon! Times are changing, get on the with the change, and embrace it. Stop living in the past, Flash. :D
This announcement is about the opposite. There will no longer be court cases about shutting down the Korean BW scene...
Glad this is finally over, that dispute caused more disputes on forums like bw vs sc2 and I hated that, as I love bw forever and I enjoy watching sc2. My usual schedule is watch GSL, then watch the end of PL if it's not over, then watch the vods of the day before PL :p Long life broodwar, long life starcraft 2
Would be intresting to see if kespa is trying to get into sc2. But that maybe counter productive for themselves if they cut their audience in half. So as long as bw is running good for them they have no need to expand.
On May 09 2011 21:35 Dattish wrote: I hope this means the powerhouses of SC1 will move on to SC2 and possibly influence other countries to start their own leagues because of popularity and the fact that the game doesn't look like pixels shooting at each other.
Look beyond the graphics man, look beyond the graphics....
Lol Reality moves on to SC2. He does a double proxy rax into hellions, into hellion drops, into viking harass, into 4 rax stim timing push....
Trust me if they wanted to move to SC2 they would have probably done so already. There are already some B-teamers who have left their teams to play SC2.
On May 09 2011 21:45 ShootingStars wrote: Hope this means the SC1 pros will move on to SC2 soon! Times are changing, get on the with the change, and embrace it. Stop living in the past, Flash. :D
On May 09 2011 21:28 Omegalisk wrote: While it's great that they are finally coming to an agreement, that news article/forum post is extremely biased toward KESPA. I would like to see a more neutral announcement (maybe when the deal is actually signed).
On May 09 2011 21:30 Maliris wrote: Hmm reading over that article again, it is incredibly biased towards kespa.. ;/ SDM doesn't exactly like SC2/blizzard either
You're not going to find a source that's less biased towards KeSPA. Fomos is by far the most Blizzard-friendly e-sports news site. DES and others are far more pro-KeSPA than Fomos, so if you're hoping to see something more neutral, you aren't going to be satisfied.
well, it also depends on the writer. if this was written by daniel lee, as i suspect it to be, he's known to be pretty strongly pro-kespa and anti-sc2
Why is Daniel Lee Anti sc2 and blizzard? what happen between him and gom?
On May 09 2011 21:35 Dattish wrote: I hope this means the powerhouses of SC1 will move on to SC2 and possibly influence other countries to start their own leagues because of popularity and the fact that the game doesn't look like pixels shooting at each other.
Look beyond the graphics man, look beyond the graphics....
Lol Reality moves on to SC2. He does a double proxy rax into hellions, into hellion drops, into viking harass, into 4 rax stim timing push....
On May 09 2011 21:44 johanngrunt wrote: How unpopular is SC2 in Korea?
Compare the amount of people clapping at GSL to what you hear in proleague streams and you'll have the answer.
It depends on the match really...if its like SKT vs OZ or something,sure its alot more. I doubt there would be full attendences at ACE vs Woongjin for example.
On May 09 2011 21:28 Omegalisk wrote: While it's great that they are finally coming to an agreement, that news article/forum post is extremely biased toward KESPA. I would like to see a more neutral announcement (maybe when the deal is actually signed).
On May 09 2011 21:30 Maliris wrote: Hmm reading over that article again, it is incredibly biased towards kespa.. ;/ SDM doesn't exactly like SC2/blizzard either
You're not going to find a source that's less biased towards KeSPA. Fomos is by far the most Blizzard-friendly e-sports news site. DES and others are far more pro-KeSPA than Fomos, so if you're hoping to see something more neutral, you aren't going to be satisfied.
PlayXP is more favored towards Blizzard then Fomos tho.
PlayXP is more of a community site and less of an official news organization. While they do post news, it's generally sourced from other sites and volunteer writers rather than paid reporters.
On May 09 2011 21:50 Finrod1 wrote: Would be intresting to see if kespa is trying to get into sc2. But that maybe counter productive for themselves if they cut their audience in half. So as long as bw is running good for them they have no need to expand.
OGN and MBCGame do actually have a lot of airtime that could be filled. You have to keep in mind that these are 24/7 channels and while they do have games other than BW, much of that time could easily be allocated to SC2 programming.
The agreement is believed to have arrived due to starcraft2’s failure to be embraced by the Korean fans.
This I have a really hard time believing. Since by signing the contract they are subject to renewals (major point of contension) and it comes with obligations to put a Blizzard logo on everything they produce and likely with secondary obligation to not bad mouth any Blizzard products. However I don't think either party at this point wanted this to go to trial.
This is worth a whole lot more to Blizzard than the paltry Licensing fees, so my guess is that Blizzard might have slacked on some other terms in light of Foreign SC2 having a good scene building.
I think it's safe to say that everyone wins.
It's kinda sad that we didn't start at "everyone wins" but instead only got there after all the bickering, drama and lawsuits.
At least we seem to be getting there eventually. I do hope KeSPA stays the fuck out of SC2 though, don't need their retarded shit there too.
On May 09 2011 21:28 Omegalisk wrote: While it's great that they are finally coming to an agreement, that news article/forum post is extremely biased toward KESPA. I would like to see a more neutral announcement (maybe when the deal is actually signed).
On May 09 2011 21:30 Maliris wrote: Hmm reading over that article again, it is incredibly biased towards kespa.. ;/ SDM doesn't exactly like SC2/blizzard either
You're not going to find a source that's less biased towards KeSPA. Fomos is by far the most Blizzard-friendly e-sports news site. DES and others are far more pro-KeSPA than Fomos, so if you're hoping to see something more neutral, you aren't going to be satisfied.
well, it also depends on the writer. if this was written by daniel lee, as i suspect it to be, he's known to be pretty strongly pro-kespa and anti-sc2
Why is Daniel Lee Anti sc2 and blizzard? what happen between him and gom?
Daniel Lee I believe is one of the people who found BW an superior game to SC2(not my words), on top of that Blizzard attempted to shut down the BW scene somewhat , which would open up the way for SC2. I believe that is where his hate comes from(not sure though).
On May 09 2011 21:44 LaLuSh wrote: Superdanielman wrote the article ^^ The jab at sc2's popularity pretty expected.
Superdanielman didn't write the article;he just translated it. I just read the korean article, and SDM just made it sound more pointed than the article suggested. The article focused more on how both sides saw that this was hurting both.
On May 09 2011 21:44 johanngrunt wrote: How unpopular is SC2 in Korea?
Compare the amount of people clapping at GSL to what you hear in proleague streams and you'll have the answer.
Look at the server population in sc2 ranks and its a different story.
A different story in what way? SC2Ranks shows ~100k people playing SC2. The majority of the population is playing BW in PC Bangs on LAN or on custom servers like BrainClan/ICCUP. According to PC Bang stats, SC2 is not even in the top 10, while BW is consistently in the top 5.
On May 09 2011 21:44 LaLuSh wrote: Superdanielman wrote the article ^^ The jab at sc2's popularity pretty expected.
Superdanielman didn't write the article;he just translated it. I just read the korean article, and SDM just made it sound more pointed than the article suggested. The article focused more on how both sides saw that this was hurting both.
are you willing to translate the original Article if it has some more information? I would add it to the OP then.
On May 09 2011 21:50 Finrod1 wrote: Would be intresting to see if kespa is trying to get into sc2. But that maybe counter productive for themselves if they cut their audience in half. So as long as bw is running good for them they have no need to expand.
OGN and MBCGame do actually have a lot of airtime that could be filled. You have to keep in mind that these are 24/7 channels and while they do have games other than BW, much of that time could easily be allocated to SC2 programming.
I think I read somewhere that OGN and/or MBC did agree to air SC2, but only at a relatively inconvenient time compared to their BW leagues. Blizzard/Gretech didn't like this and demanded in their offered contract that SC2 be aired during prime time, which would directly conflict with the BW leagues. OGN/MBC disagreed with Blizzard/Gretech, and this was one of the key disagreements from the previously failed negotiations.
It'll be interesting to see what OGN/MBC does with SC2 now that everything is being wrapped up, though their decisions will be determined by the terms of the contract, much of which is probably still being hopefully finalized.
On May 09 2011 21:44 LaLuSh wrote: Superdanielman wrote the article ^^ The jab at sc2's popularity pretty expected.
Superdanielman didn't write the article;he just translated it. I just read the korean article, and SDM just made it sound more pointed than the article suggested. The article focused more on how both sides saw that this was hurting both.
Where can we find the original article? Anyone that can translate it so we can have a more "neutral" source.
On May 09 2011 21:44 johanngrunt wrote: How unpopular is SC2 in Korea?
Compare the amount of people clapping at GSL to what you hear in proleague streams and you'll have the answer.
It depends on the match really...if its like SKT vs OZ or something,sure its alot more. I doubt there would be full attendences at ACE vs Woongjin for example.
But that's proleague though. Compare OSL/MSL to GSL and GSTL to SPL/SWL.
Great news. In the end Blizzard could not have won this. Sure they could possibly win in court but they could not win the fans and the market in Korea. What I think is more important however and much better for e-sports in and outside of Korea is that Blizzard realised they didnt have to win. Let Broodwar be Broodwar in Korea, dont mess with it, and take whatever success you can get with SC2 there, because the global success have exceeded all expectations.
It is clear that initially Korea was the goal, the mecca of e-sports, and that is where they wanted to succeed and to naturaly control the market of the products they made. Now, with full crontrol of SC2 and a global market at their feet, it was better to settle with a compromise in the KeSPA case.
Heh, given the information in that statement, kespa/mbc/ongame might have just accepted every single demand Blizz made. Tbh, i wouldnt be surprised if thats what really happened considering Blizz seem to be sure about what they're doing before entering legal processes. Good that its over anyway.
Why is this in the SC2 section? The settlement was more related to control over Broodwar broadcasting.
Anyway good news as we hopefully will no longer have to worry about OSL/MSL/Proleague having any issues with being broadcasted, I don't mind if SC2 is aired on the channels either if its at non-prime times, would be nice to see. Hope the scenes remain separate though to ensure both survive.
My question is how will this benefit SC2 in Korea? It seems more of a status quo with advertising and licensing promotion involved that BroodWar will continue to thrive for the future. Its already hard enough for SC2 to achieve a following and generate audience sucess when it has to compete with ease of TV access from the OGN and MBC networks. I'm sure we'll know more once the deal is finalized between the two parties and hopefully it'll involve allocation of broadcasting of SC2 matches.
Can people take the BW vs SC2 conversation down a notch. Been following this story for years now and I think it's safe to say that both* parties have done concessions to get the deal to work.
Simply put : Everyone wins!
SC2 fans get a whole new world of possibilities in a world where KESPA can't badmouth SC2 leagues and might even make products of it's own. As if I didn't already have enough stuff to watch every day .
BW fans get the renewal we wanted without a huge and messy trial, which to me means more Fantasy proleague where my anti-team crushes my hopes and dreams .
*I REALLY mean both, many points brought up just here would have never worked 3 years ago.
Now i feel a little bit better after a bad day sofarXD This might trigger some more korean bw players to make the transition and maybe some bigger crowds! Great news!!
Oh, and isnt it a bit funny GOM gave back their SCBW broadcasting rights to Blizzard a few weeks ago? =)
This was probably coming already at that time, and since Blizz was coming to an agreement with ogn/mbc, GOM couldnt hold the rights anymore, so Blizz/GOM arranged a return of the rights to Blizz, who in turn now will allow ogn/mbc to broadcast. Maybe GOM having SCBW rights in the first place was probably just to scare ogn/mbc to agree on their demands?
On May 09 2011 22:05 Milkis wrote: Wait till an official statement, kiddies
haha,even you don't believe sdm.
No, the original Korean source doesn't use a definite tone. It seems likely given other articles in the past about the subject but 1) details are hazy 2) SDM added a lot of weird stuff. Just wait for an official statement from blizzard or KeSPA
No offence but in due time Korea will not be the e-gaming capital of the world, my thoughts is just that it has way to many stubborn BW fans/plaers that continue to make SC2 sound like it's "off" in Korea, whilst the rest of the world has realised that SC2 is the chance to make Esports big and thus it's gaining the support it is.
On May 09 2011 22:07 Kreb wrote: Oh, and isnt it a bit funny GOM gave back their SCBW broadcasting rights to Blizzard a few weeks ago? =)
This was probably coming already at that time, and since Blizz was coming to an agreement with ogn/mbc, GOM couldnt hold the rights anymore, so Blizz/GOM arranged a return of the rights to Blizz, who in turn now will allow ogn/mbc to broadcast. Maybe GOM having SCBW rights in the first place was probably just to scare ogn/mbc to agree on their demands?
It's more complicated than that, but it has more to do with Blizzard realizing that they can't compete in Korea any more and they don't have the manpower to handle it since half the blizzard korea members apparently left for another company among other things.
On May 09 2011 22:15 Krehlmar wrote: No offence but in due time Korea will not be the e-gaming capital of the world, my thoughts is just that it has way to many stubborn BW fans/plaers that continue to make SC2 sound like it's "off" in Korea, whilst the rest of the world has realised that SC2 is the chance to make Esports big and thus it's gaining the support it is.
Despite that,SK will remain the capital for quite a long time. The infrastructure etc is not there yet in Western countries.
On May 09 2011 22:15 Krehlmar wrote: No offence but in due time Korea will not be the e-gaming capital of the world, my thoughts is just that it has way to many stubborn BW fans/plaers that continue to make SC2 sound like it's "off" in Korea, whilst the rest of the world has realised that SC2 is the chance to make Esports big and thus it's gaining the support it is.
no offence but in due time the SC2 bubble will die and everything you thought was stable will disappear and the SC2 scene will be only a shell of what is around now. let me know if sc2 lasts 10 years, because it wont.
On May 09 2011 22:15 Krehlmar wrote: No offence but in due time Korea will not be the e-gaming capital of the world, my thoughts is just that it has way to many stubborn BW fans/plaers that continue to make SC2 sound like it's "off" in Korea, whilst the rest of the world has realised that SC2 is the chance to make Esports big and thus it's gaining the support it is.
no offence but you cant fault people for sticking with a better game. last i heard, broodwar is still alot more popular in korea than sc2 so its not really anyone being stubborn, its more like people being honest?
i dont care if red alert 2 became a global e sport with hundreds of teams and billions of dollars, id still watch brood war
I also hear that on Monday, May 9th (today), Activision Blizzard will have their 2011 Q1 Financial Results Conference Call.
In addition to rumors that details will be revealed for the Diablo 3 beta at this conference call, I have a feeling that there might be some interesting information about Blizzard's dealings with the Korean scene as well. Perhaps more details will be revealed this evening when the broadcast of that conference call occurs.
Anyways, it's going to be an exciting time as we hear more about this settlement.
On May 09 2011 22:15 Krehlmar wrote: No offence but in due time Korea will not be the e-gaming capital of the world, my thoughts is just that it has way to many stubborn BW fans/plaers that continue to make SC2 sound like it's "off" in Korea, whilst the rest of the world has realised that SC2 is the chance to make Esports big and thus it's gaining the support it is.
no offence but in due time the SC2 bubble will die and everything you thought was stable will disappear and the SC2 scene will be only a shell of what is around now. let me know if sc2 lasts 10 years, because it wont.
YES!!! Now its time for a SC2 pro league. Hopefully all three stations (GOMtv, OGN, MBCgame) can cooperate and we might even see sc2 divisions from the bw teams. They might let some of their B-teamers and practice partners start on sc2, but one can only hope ;P.
On May 09 2011 22:15 Krehlmar wrote: No offence but in due time Korea will not be the e-gaming capital of the world, my thoughts is just that it has way to many stubborn BW fans/plaers that continue to make SC2 sound like it's "off" in Korea, whilst the rest of the world has realised that SC2 is the chance to make Esports big and thus it's gaining the support it is.
no offence but in due time the SC2 bubble will die and everything you thought was stable will disappear and the SC2 scene will be only a shell of what is around now. let me know if sc2 lasts 10 years, because it wont.
Good for everyone, most people on TL are fans of both games, so naturally you want both to thrive.
I wonder if more SC2 tournaments will pop up, think i can speak for fans and players (especially those in Korea) that we want more tournaments for them.
On May 09 2011 22:15 Krehlmar wrote: No offence but in due time Korea will not be the e-gaming capital of the world, my thoughts is just that it has way to many stubborn BW fans/plaers that continue to make SC2 sound like it's "off" in Korea, whilst the rest of the world has realised that SC2 is the chance to make Esports big and thus it's gaining the support it is.
no offence but you cant fault people for sticking with a better game. last i heard, broodwar is still alot more popular in korea than sc2 so its not really anyone being stubborn, its more like people being honest?
i dont care if red alert 2 became a global e sport with hundreds of teams and billions of dollars, id still watch brood war
People keep saying broodwar is a lot more popular but I've never seen people post where they get their sources (not that I've looked too much though). How and where do I find which games are more popular?
On May 09 2011 22:15 Krehlmar wrote: No offence but in due time Korea will not be the e-gaming capital of the world, my thoughts is just that it has way to many stubborn BW fans/plaers that continue to make SC2 sound like it's "off" in Korea, whilst the rest of the world has realised that SC2 is the chance to make Esports big and thus it's gaining the support it is.
no offence but you cant fault people for sticking with a better game. last i heard, broodwar is still alot more popular in korea than sc2 so its not really anyone being stubborn, its more like people being honest?
i dont care if red alert 2 became a global e sport with hundreds of teams and billions of dollars, id still watch brood war
People keep saying broodwar is a lot more popular but I've never seen people post where they get their sources (not that I've looked too much though). How and where do I find which games are more popular?
There were some statistics which state that BW is ranked higher than sc2 in people playing it in PC bangs.
On May 09 2011 22:15 Krehlmar wrote: No offence but in due time Korea will not be the e-gaming capital of the world, my thoughts is just that it has way to many stubborn BW fans/plaers that continue to make SC2 sound like it's "off" in Korea, whilst the rest of the world has realised that SC2 is the chance to make Esports big and thus it's gaining the support it is.
no offence but in due time the SC2 bubble will die and everything you thought was stable will disappear and the SC2 scene will be only a shell of what is around now. let me know if sc2 lasts 10 years, because it wont.
Yeah in 1999 when sc1 was 1 year old, everyone said this game will last for 10+ years..
That's a logical statement.
(Btw, didn't sc2 boom TL's traffic? I would expect the mods to be at least a little happy for sc2.)
Hell yeah! This just made my day so much better, this is the best news article of the day, NO, of the year. I <3 Blizzard and <3 KeSPA for coming to an agreement!!! This needs to be put on the front page ASAP, this is so great :D.
On May 09 2011 22:25 nihlon wrote:
People keep saying broodwar is a lot more popular but I've never seen people post where they get their sources (not that I've looked too much though). How and where do I find which games are more popular?
On May 09 2011 22:15 Krehlmar wrote: No offence but in due time Korea will not be the e-gaming capital of the world, my thoughts is just that it has way to many stubborn BW fans/plaers that continue to make SC2 sound like it's "off" in Korea, whilst the rest of the world has realised that SC2 is the chance to make Esports big and thus it's gaining the support it is.
no offence but in due time the SC2 bubble will die and everything you thought was stable will disappear and the SC2 scene will be only a shell of what is around now. let me know if sc2 lasts 10 years, because it wont.
Yeah in 1999 when sc1 was 1 year old, everyone said this game will last for 10+ years..
That's a logical statement.
(Btw, didn't sc2 boom TL's traffic? I would expect the mods to be at least a little happy for sc2.)
He's merely insulting the poster. Geezlike read what he quoted.
This is good news, but I hope bw and sc2 can coexist, I've only recently started following pro bw ( and it's been a year of following sc2 ), and it's a lot of fun.
Articles from Superdanielman are usually pretty interesting and well informed. It is a lie that he's pro-Kespa, he's very critical of Kespa and the Kespa handling of this case, but he acknowledges that Kespa is a professionally-run organization, and that they actually made Broodwar an e-sport. He just didn't believe the hype about SC2 being the best thing in the world since sliced bread, and that's why people says he's biased against SC2.
On May 09 2011 22:15 Krehlmar wrote: No offence but in due time Korea will not be the e-gaming capital of the world, my thoughts is just that it has way to many stubborn BW fans/plaers that continue to make SC2 sound like it's "off" in Korea, whilst the rest of the world has realised that SC2 is the chance to make Esports big and thus it's gaining the support it is.
no offence but in due time the SC2 bubble will die and everything you thought was stable will disappear and the SC2 scene will be only a shell of what is around now. let me know if sc2 lasts 10 years, because it wont.
Yeah in 1999 when sc1 was 1 year old, everyone said this game will last for 10+ years..
That's a logical statement.
(Btw, didn't sc2 boom TL's traffic? I would expect the mods to be at least a little happy for sc2.)
Milkis is not a mod, he is a writer. He in no way represents the entire of Teamliquid. Although I agree with him .
SDM is bitter over SC2 because he opened up a PC bang to profit over the "SC2 wave" which never truly materialized. He keeps brooding over the fact that no one plays starcraft 2 in his shop and that it's not addictive enough compared to Brood War.
To quote him:
"it's not the game, it's the politics that annoy me"
On May 09 2011 22:07 Kreb wrote: Oh, and isnt it a bit funny GOM gave back their SCBW broadcasting rights to Blizzard a few weeks ago? =)
This was probably coming already at that time, and since Blizz was coming to an agreement with ogn/mbc, GOM couldnt hold the rights anymore, so Blizz/GOM arranged a return of the rights to Blizz, who in turn now will allow ogn/mbc to broadcast. Maybe GOM having SCBW rights in the first place was probably just to scare ogn/mbc to agree on their demands?
It's more complicated than that, but it has more to do with Blizzard realizing that they can't compete in Korea any more and they don't have the manpower to handle it since half the blizzard korea members apparently left for another company among other things.
they apparently fired their head marketing guy after realising how much of a flop sc2's entry was into korea.
This "dispute" (a term that is nothing but euphemism) just shows, how absurd the concept of "Intelectual property" is. Everytime it is brought up, it hinders something. It hinders culture, technological developement ... and now also e-sports!
Giving exlusive rights to SC2 to GOM is a typical example of the extremely short-sighted thinking that affects most of the big companies today. Blizzard should encourage everyone to make and broadcast tournaments. Because, guess what, it would make the game more popular and they could sell more copies!
Neverthless, this is absurd also conceptually. Some people bought a game. They paid for it. So they should be able to compete in a tournament and have someone broadcast it on TV if the please! It's like you weren't able to broadcast any motorsport without prior consent from all the car manafacturers... The fact that the law system almost everywhere that allows Blizzard to do what they do, shows the true extent of the hole we are digging for ourselves.
On May 09 2011 22:15 Krehlmar wrote: No offence but in due time Korea will not be the e-gaming capital of the world, my thoughts is just that it has way to many stubborn BW fans/plaers that continue to make SC2 sound like it's "off" in Korea, whilst the rest of the world has realised that SC2 is the chance to make Esports big and thus it's gaining the support it is.
no offence but you cant fault people for sticking with a better game. last i heard, broodwar is still alot more popular in korea than sc2 so its not really anyone being stubborn, its more like people being honest?
i dont care if red alert 2 became a global e sport with hundreds of teams and billions of dollars, id still watch brood war
People keep saying broodwar is a lot more popular but I've never seen people post where they get their sources (not that I've looked too much though). How and where do I find which games are more popular?
Here's a rough way of estimating.
TSL gets 50K viewers. Given that they have 50K viewers, let's say not everyone can watch it at the same time. I'll be generous, and say that there are 10x the number of people who can't catch it live, so 50K * 10x = 500K SC2 "esports" fans.
BW TV stations still gets like 0.7% ratings in Korea or something, much higher for bigger games (SKT vs KT matches regularly top ratings), and most of the scene is based on online watching. Given Korea's population of 40 mil that's still easily like 400K.
On May 09 2011 22:07 Kreb wrote: Oh, and isnt it a bit funny GOM gave back their SCBW broadcasting rights to Blizzard a few weeks ago? =)
This was probably coming already at that time, and since Blizz was coming to an agreement with ogn/mbc, GOM couldnt hold the rights anymore, so Blizz/GOM arranged a return of the rights to Blizz, who in turn now will allow ogn/mbc to broadcast. Maybe GOM having SCBW rights in the first place was probably just to scare ogn/mbc to agree on their demands?
It's more complicated than that, but it has more to do with Blizzard realizing that they can't compete in Korea any more and they don't have the manpower to handle it since half the blizzard korea members apparently left for another company among other things.
they apparently fired their head marketing guy after realising how much of a flop sc2's entry was into korea.
Yeah, that is DES speculation though, but it is true their head guy got demoted, but not sure about anything else.
On May 09 2011 22:15 Krehlmar wrote: No offence but in due time Korea will not be the e-gaming capital of the world, my thoughts is just that it has way to many stubborn BW fans/plaers that continue to make SC2 sound like it's "off" in Korea, whilst the rest of the world has realised that SC2 is the chance to make Esports big and thus it's gaining the support it is.
no offence but you cant fault people for sticking with a better game. last i heard, broodwar is still alot more popular in korea than sc2 so its not really anyone being stubborn, its more like people being honest?
i dont care if red alert 2 became a global e sport with hundreds of teams and billions of dollars, id still watch brood war
People keep saying broodwar is a lot more popular but I've never seen people post where they get their sources (not that I've looked too much though). How and where do I find which games are more popular?
There was PC bang statistics out a month or so ago, SC2 was in 15th place or something, bw top 3? You can also just look at the crowds for the different tournaments i guess too.
On May 09 2011 22:15 Krehlmar wrote: No offence but in due time Korea will not be the e-gaming capital of the world, my thoughts is just that it has way to many stubborn BW fans/plaers that continue to make SC2 sound like it's "off" in Korea, whilst the rest of the world has realised that SC2 is the chance to make Esports big and thus it's gaining the support it is.
no offence but you cant fault people for sticking with a better game. last i heard, broodwar is still alot more popular in korea than sc2 so its not really anyone being stubborn, its more like people being honest?
i dont care if red alert 2 became a global e sport with hundreds of teams and billions of dollars, id still watch brood war
People keep saying broodwar is a lot more popular but I've never seen people post where they get their sources (not that I've looked too much though). How and where do I find which games are more popular?
There were some statistics which state that BW is ranked higher than sc2 in people playing it in PC bangs.
Ok, thanks even though I have to admit I know basically nothing about PC bangs so that statistic doesn't say much to me. Wiki didn't tell me much. Isn't there some more concrete numbers, number of people playing the games in Korea or something similar?
If Kespa gets their hands on SC2 in Korea it will smother the sc2 scene and they very well might try that. Hopefully Blizzard will keep them away from that, I kinda like it when people joke or have enough foresight to participate in foreign tournaments.
On May 09 2011 22:15 Krehlmar wrote: No offence but in due time Korea will not be the e-gaming capital of the world, my thoughts is just that it has way to many stubborn BW fans/plaers that continue to make SC2 sound like it's "off" in Korea, whilst the rest of the world has realised that SC2 is the chance to make Esports big and thus it's gaining the support it is.
i'm so effin tired of having to put up with arguments like these but i will do so anyways.
what defines e-gaming capital of the world? a country that's hosting the most recent games at a grand scale? how are BW fans stubborn? just because BW is older than sc2? have you never thought of the possibility that korean fans may be sticking to BW b/c they actually like it more?
you sound like this guy who's lecturing ppl on teamliquid about how sc2 defines progress and BW is outdated, inferior....simply because it's old.
i'm not going to try to convince you that BW is a better game than sc2 but you should stop playing the "no offense dot dot dot" card because clearly, you're offending the korean esports industry by implying that the korean esports industry will soon be inferior to foreign esports industry just because they're sticking to a game they like more and is more popular
GOMtv still has the exclusive rights over sc2 for Korea, the rights they gave up recently were only for BW, and for court sake because Blizzard was going to fight alone with their "amassing law firm lawyers". For more SC2 tournaments KeSPA will have to pay GOMtv which doesn't seam to be in this deal, and we really don't want KeSPA getting contracts with all the SC2 players and being the power maniac they are it just doesn't sound too good, to tell you the truth GOM is going to have to be careful about this if they are approached they shouldn't allow KeSPA to take over like OGN and MBC allowed them to do.
Also SC2 atm is much inferior in terms of balance and justfundamental gameplay to BW, I really hope the expansions change that with Heart of the Swarm and so on SC2 becomes more of an RTS then a-move game that it is right now.
On May 09 2011 22:15 Krehlmar wrote: No offence but in due time Korea will not be the e-gaming capital of the world, my thoughts is just that it has way to many stubborn BW fans/plaers that continue to make SC2 sound like it's "off" in Korea, whilst the rest of the world has realised that SC2 is the chance to make Esports big and thus it's gaining the support it is.
no offence but you cant fault people for sticking with a better game. last i heard, broodwar is still alot more popular in korea than sc2 so its not really anyone being stubborn, its more like people being honest?
i dont care if red alert 2 became a global e sport with hundreds of teams and billions of dollars, id still watch brood war
People keep saying broodwar is a lot more popular but I've never seen people post where they get their sources (not that I've looked too much though). How and where do I find which games are more popular?
There was PC bang statistics out a month or so ago, SC2 was in 15th place or something, bw top 3? You can also just look at the crowds for the different tournaments i guess too.
On May 09 2011 22:15 Krehlmar wrote: No offence but in due time Korea will not be the e-gaming capital of the world, my thoughts is just that it has way to many stubborn BW fans/plaers that continue to make SC2 sound like it's "off" in Korea, whilst the rest of the world has realised that SC2 is the chance to make Esports big and thus it's gaining the support it is.
no offence but you cant fault people for sticking with a better game. last i heard, broodwar is still alot more popular in korea than sc2 so its not really anyone being stubborn, its more like people being honest?
i dont care if red alert 2 became a global e sport with hundreds of teams and billions of dollars, id still watch brood war
People keep saying broodwar is a lot more popular but I've never seen people post where they get their sources (not that I've looked too much though). How and where do I find which games are more popular?
There were some statistics which state that BW is ranked higher than sc2 in people playing it in PC bangs.
Ok, thanks even though I have to admit I know basically nothing about PC bangs so that statistic doesn't say much to me. Wiki didn't tell me much. Isn't there some more concrete numbers, number of people playing the games in Korea or something similar?
Lets just say that PC bangs is the way to hang out in Korea, it is a culture, you go there for social activities(as weird as that may sound), hence alot of youngsters play much more BW then SC2.
On May 09 2011 22:15 Krehlmar wrote: No offence but in due time Korea will not be the e-gaming capital of the world, my thoughts is just that it has way to many stubborn BW fans/plaers that continue to make SC2 sound like it's "off" in Korea, whilst the rest of the world has realised that SC2 is the chance to make Esports big and thus it's gaining the support it is.
no offence but in due time the SC2 bubble will die and everything you thought was stable will disappear and the SC2 scene will be only a shell of what is around now. let me know if sc2 lasts 10 years, because it wont.
Yeah in 1999 when sc1 was 1 year old, everyone said this game will last for 10+ years..
That's a logical statement.
(Btw, didn't sc2 boom TL's traffic? I would expect the mods to be at least a little happy for sc2.)
He's merely insulting the poster. Geezlike read what he quoted.
Uhm, no, he was aiming at sc2. It was unnecessary as well, as there are hundreds of tournaments every month, and really many parts of the world are getting into sc2. Imo it's slowly starting to get huge with the MLGs, NASL, IPL, TSL, GSL, and tons of offside tournaments.
On May 09 2011 22:15 Krehlmar wrote: No offence but in due time Korea will not be the e-gaming capital of the world, my thoughts is just that it has way to many stubborn BW fans/plaers that continue to make SC2 sound like it's "off" in Korea, whilst the rest of the world has realised that SC2 is the chance to make Esports big and thus it's gaining the support it is.
no offence but you cant fault people for sticking with a better game. last i heard, broodwar is still alot more popular in korea than sc2 so its not really anyone being stubborn, its more like people being honest?
i dont care if red alert 2 became a global e sport with hundreds of teams and billions of dollars, id still watch brood war
People keep saying broodwar is a lot more popular but I've never seen people post where they get their sources (not that I've looked too much though). How and where do I find which games are more popular?
Here's a rough way of estimating.
TSL gets 50K viewers. Given that they have 50K viewers, let's say not everyone can watch it at the same time. I'll be generous, and say that there are 10x the number of people who can't catch it live, so 50K * 10x = 500K SC2 "esports" fans.
BW TV stations still gets like 0.7% ratings in Korea or something, much higher for bigger games (SKT vs KT matches regularly top ratings), and most of the scene is based on online watching. Given Korea's population of 40 mil that's still easily like 400K.
not to mention the shit ton of people in korea who watch it on streams too. (not everyone has cable)
On May 09 2011 22:15 Krehlmar wrote: No offence but in due time Korea will not be the e-gaming capital of the world, my thoughts is just that it has way to many stubborn BW fans/plaers that continue to make SC2 sound like it's "off" in Korea, whilst the rest of the world has realised that SC2 is the chance to make Esports big and thus it's gaining the support it is.
no offence but you cant fault people for sticking with a better game. last i heard, broodwar is still alot more popular in korea than sc2 so its not really anyone being stubborn, its more like people being honest?
i dont care if red alert 2 became a global e sport with hundreds of teams and billions of dollars, id still watch brood war
People keep saying broodwar is a lot more popular but I've never seen people post where they get their sources (not that I've looked too much though). How and where do I find which games are more popular?
Here's a rough way of estimating.
TSL gets 50K viewers. Given that they have 50K viewers, let's say not everyone can watch it at the same time. I'll be generous, and say that there are 10x the number of people who can't catch it live, so 50K * 10x = 500K SC2 "esports" fans.
BW TV stations still gets like 0.7% ratings in Korea or something, much higher for bigger games (SKT vs KT matches regularly top ratings), and most of the scene is based on online watching. Given Korea's population of 40 mil that's still easily like 400K.
Ok thanks. Do you know the viewers for the gsl? Or do they not get released other than the vods?
well whatever we get BW and I'm fine with whatever happens to SC2,if it can grow in Korea,it will grow,if it doesn't,the foreigner scene will probably make something out of it.
On May 09 2011 22:15 Krehlmar wrote: No offence but in due time Korea will not be the e-gaming capital of the world, my thoughts is just that it has way to many stubborn BW fans/plaers that continue to make SC2 sound like it's "off" in Korea, whilst the rest of the world has realised that SC2 is the chance to make Esports big and thus it's gaining the support it is.
no offence but in due time the SC2 bubble will die and everything you thought was stable will disappear and the SC2 scene will be only a shell of what is around now. let me know if sc2 lasts 10 years, because it wont.
This the concensus in the Anti-SC2 writter scene? That just a few months before major reveals of SC2 next expansion Blizzard capitulated and resigned to giving the rights to broadcast Starcraft?
I don't pretend to know the exact terms of the deal they signed, but just from what the OP, it seems that Blizzard got everything they could want. I'd argue over this point, but since I believe that this can only be good for every party involved, so if SC2 haters believe Blizzard gave up, might not be a bad thing.
On May 09 2011 22:15 Krehlmar wrote: No offence but in due time Korea will not be the e-gaming capital of the world, my thoughts is just that it has way to many stubborn BW fans/plaers that continue to make SC2 sound like it's "off" in Korea, whilst the rest of the world has realised that SC2 is the chance to make Esports big and thus it's gaining the support it is.
no offence but in due time the SC2 bubble will die and everything you thought was stable will disappear and the SC2 scene will be only a shell of what is around now. let me know if sc2 lasts 10 years, because it wont.
This the concensus in the Anti-SC2 writter scene? That just a few months before major reveals of SC2 next expansion Blizzard capitulated and resigned to giving the rights to broadcast Starcraft?
I don't pretend to know the exact terms of the deal they signed, but just from what the OP, it seems that Blizzard got everything they could want. I'd argue over this point, but since I believe that this can only be good for every party involved, so if SC2 haters believe Blizzard gave up, might not be a bad thing.
I don't represent "writers". I represent myself.
Considering Blizzard initiated contact with KeSPA to negotiate with OGN/MBC, who knows what the terms were.
On May 09 2011 22:15 Krehlmar wrote: No offence but in due time Korea will not be the e-gaming capital of the world, my thoughts is just that it has way to many stubborn BW fans/plaers that continue to make SC2 sound like it's "off" in Korea, whilst the rest of the world has realised that SC2 is the chance to make Esports big and thus it's gaining the support it is.
no offence but in due time the SC2 bubble will die and everything you thought was stable will disappear and the SC2 scene will be only a shell of what is around now. let me know if sc2 lasts 10 years, because it wont.
This the concensus in the Anti-SC2 writter scene? That just a few months before major reveals of SC2 next expansion Blizzard capitulated and resigned to giving the rights to broadcast Starcraft?
I don't pretend to know the exact terms of the deal they signed, but just from what the OP, it seems that Blizzard got everything they could want. I'd argue over this point, but since I believe that this can only be good for every party involved, so if SC2 haters believe Blizzard gave up, might not be a bad thing.
milkis is not against SC2,hes just not interested.Most TL writers are unbiased,hes not one of the biased.
Don't know if this has been answered, but if Kespa starts a new SC2 tournament, would it be comprising the same SC1 teams (just with different players?)?
On May 09 2011 22:07 Kreb wrote: Oh, and isnt it a bit funny GOM gave back their SCBW broadcasting rights to Blizzard a few weeks ago? =)
This was probably coming already at that time, and since Blizz was coming to an agreement with ogn/mbc, GOM couldnt hold the rights anymore, so Blizz/GOM arranged a return of the rights to Blizz, who in turn now will allow ogn/mbc to broadcast. Maybe GOM having SCBW rights in the first place was probably just to scare ogn/mbc to agree on their demands?
It's more complicated than that, but it has more to do with Blizzard realizing that they can't compete in Korea any more and they don't have the manpower to handle it since half the blizzard korea members apparently left for another company among other things.
they apparently fired their head marketing guy after realising how much of a flop sc2's entry was into korea.
Yeah, that is DES speculation though, but it is true their head guy got demoted, but not sure about anything else.
That actually surprises me, I was under the impression that the lack of success for SC2 had more to do with people not being able to play SC2 in a PC Bang as easy as they can SC BW due to the BNET2 accounts.
If this is true the only winner here is Blizzard because now KeSPA and all so called pro-sc:bw people will stop talking how bad sc2 is and will concentrate on sc:bw.
The sc:bw vs sc2 debate is useless it's the same as if you want to debate tennis vs table tennis, both are close but actually very different in the same time.
That's just good for everyone. That doesn't mean that kespa or ogn will start broadcasting sc2 at all, it just means that the bw korean leagues will be able to live peacefully <3 And perhaps it will cease (I'm dreaming) the flames between bw and sc2 lovers, some bw fans "couldn't" like sc2 because that meant supporting blizzard's "attack" against OGN/MBC, now that argument is gone and it's cool for everyone.
On May 09 2011 22:45 kinray wrote: If this is true the only winner here is Blizzard because now KeSPA and all so called pro-sc:bw people will stop talking how bad sc2 is and will concentrate on sc:bw.
The sc:bw vs sc2 debate is useless it's the same as if you want to debate tennis vs table tennis, both are close but actually very different in the same time.
On May 09 2011 22:15 Krehlmar wrote: No offence but in due time Korea will not be the e-gaming capital of the world, my thoughts is just that it has way to many stubborn BW fans/plaers that continue to make SC2 sound like it's "off" in Korea, whilst the rest of the world has realised that SC2 is the chance to make Esports big and thus it's gaining the support it is.
no offence but you cant fault people for sticking with a better game. last i heard, broodwar is still alot more popular in korea than sc2 so its not really anyone being stubborn, its more like people being honest?
i dont care if red alert 2 became a global e sport with hundreds of teams and billions of dollars, id still watch brood war
People keep saying broodwar is a lot more popular but I've never seen people post where they get their sources (not that I've looked too much though). How and where do I find which games are more popular?
Here's a rough way of estimating.
TSL gets 50K viewers. Given that they have 50K viewers, let's say not everyone can watch it at the same time. I'll be generous, and say that there are 10x the number of people who can't catch it live, so 50K * 10x = 500K SC2 "esports" fans.
BW TV stations still gets like 0.7% ratings in Korea or something, much higher for bigger games (SKT vs KT matches regularly top ratings), and most of the scene is based on online watching. Given Korea's population of 40 mil that's still easily like 400K.
I think your figures are a bit low for SC2 esports fans. For example I can provide you with some stats for DH Invitational (This is only a small 1-day event on a Tuesday):
450 000 Unique viewers
85-90 000K viewers at the same time.
And add to that SC2 broke the record on Swedens largest newspaper regarding a live-stream. So the stats are a bit higher but of course BW is still the most dominant in Korea.
I don't know why people start to talk about sc2. The agreement should be for starcraft 1 only, considering gomtv has the exclusive rights for starcraft 2.
On May 09 2011 22:45 kinray wrote: If this is true the only winner here is Blizzard because now KeSPA and all so called pro-sc:bw people will stop talking how bad sc2 is and will concentrate on sc:bw.
The sc:bw vs sc2 debate is useless it's the same as if you want to debate tennis vs table tennis, both are close but actually very different in the same time.
uhh I fail to see how Blizzard is the winner.
there is no winner or loser,its just compromise.
The winner as the side that will start to loose less over time from bad PR. And in fact they got what they wanted, KeSPA basically said: OK you have IP rights and we will pay you something for that.
Wait, so does that mean BW will slowly come to a halt? since OGN and MBC are allowed to do more than just BW now I follow sc2 but BW is still where my heart is
On May 09 2011 22:07 Kreb wrote: Oh, and isnt it a bit funny GOM gave back their SCBW broadcasting rights to Blizzard a few weeks ago? =)
This was probably coming already at that time, and since Blizz was coming to an agreement with ogn/mbc, GOM couldnt hold the rights anymore, so Blizz/GOM arranged a return of the rights to Blizz, who in turn now will allow ogn/mbc to broadcast. Maybe GOM having SCBW rights in the first place was probably just to scare ogn/mbc to agree on their demands?
It's more complicated than that, but it has more to do with Blizzard realizing that they can't compete in Korea any more and they don't have the manpower to handle it since half the blizzard korea members apparently left for another company among other things.
they apparently fired their head marketing guy after realising how much of a flop sc2's entry was into korea.
Yeah, that is DES speculation though, but it is true their head guy got demoted, but not sure about anything else.
That actually surprises me, I was under the impression that the lack of success for SC2 had more to do with people not being able to play SC2 in a PC Bang as easy as they can SC BW due to the BNET2 accounts.
No, it more has to do with not many people play RTSes seriously in Korea anymore. Most people just play MMOs nowadays. BW just ingrained itself before MMOs took over everything in Korea
On May 09 2011 22:15 Krehlmar wrote: No offence but in due time Korea will not be the e-gaming capital of the world, my thoughts is just that it has way to many stubborn BW fans/plaers that continue to make SC2 sound like it's "off" in Korea, whilst the rest of the world has realised that SC2 is the chance to make Esports big and thus it's gaining the support it is.
no offence but in due time the SC2 bubble will die and everything you thought was stable will disappear and the SC2 scene will be only a shell of what is around now. let me know if sc2 lasts 10 years, because it wont.
This the concensus in the Anti-SC2 writter scene? That just a few months before major reveals of SC2 next expansion Blizzard capitulated and resigned to giving the rights to broadcast Starcraft?
I don't pretend to know the exact terms of the deal they signed, but just from what the OP, it seems that Blizzard got everything they could want. I'd argue over this point, but since I believe that this can only be good for every party involved, so if SC2 haters believe Blizzard gave up, might not be a bad thing.
milkis is not against SC2,hes just not interested.Most TL writers are unbiased,hes not one of the biased.
Milkis is biased. He just voiced an opinion, not a fact, so of course he is biased. In fact, he voiced his opinion as a fact, so that makes his statement even more biased.
It doesn't matter if SC2 is still big in 10 years (and it probably won't). The point is that it is opening up a potential RTS e-sports market internationally. It's currently the best game at achieving the excitement of BW mixed with the watchability of a game not made 10+ years ago.
On May 09 2011 22:45 kinray wrote: If this is true the only winner here is Blizzard because now KeSPA and all so called pro-sc:bw people will stop talking how bad sc2 is and will concentrate on sc:bw.
The sc:bw vs sc2 debate is useless it's the same as if you want to debate tennis vs table tennis, both are close but actually very different in the same time.
uhh I fail to see how Blizzard is the winner.
there is no winner or loser,its just compromise.
The winner as the side that will start to loose less over time from bad PR. And in fact they got what they wanted, KeSPA basically said: OK you have IP rights and we will pay you something for that.
Blizzard realized that SC2 is failing so they had to end this so that they could still squeeze money from BW.
exactly why I said compromise,there are never winners and losers in things of this magnitude.
The entire dispute was handled very poorly. Congrats on settling stuff and hopefully this is the last we'll hear from Blizzard causing commotion in the BW pro scene (hardly). I guess this buys us at least one more year of SPL and individual leagues. I'm happy with that for now
I wonder why Blizzard is giving everyone such a tough time with something like this. Blizzard creates the game, it acts as a platform. It absorbs users and third parties which builds things on top of that platform and profit from them. Now consider this situation, Microsoft creates Windows, it acts as a platform. Third party developers (just like Blizzard) creates software/games that runs on top of it and they gain profit as well. Did Microsoft ever demand that the third party developers pay them just because they're profiting off the platform? Okay, you might have to pay for the Windows license, but that's it, isn't it?
I fail to see the reason Blizzard has been holding this for this long, it's totally reasonable for Kespa to take their current stance (I'm not quite sure what's going on between Kespa and MBC/OGN, please forgive me if I get this fact wrong).
On May 09 2011 22:47 JustPassingBy wrote: I don't know why people start to talk about sc2. The agreement should be for starcraft 1 only, considering gomtv has the exclusive rights for starcraft 2.
Some people are crossing their fingers and hoping that the agreement also gave out SC2 rights to OGN/MBC/KeSPA, which could potentially mean good things for the growth of the Korean SC2 scene.
Then again, it's perfectly fine if only BW rights were agreed upon in the agreement.
You guys don't have to worry about BW pros moving on to SC2. I believe that 90% of them will switch after they become too old to compete against the newcomers. Even Flash and Jaedong will age and will likely follow in the footsteps of Nada and July. SC2 = the golf of e-sports.
BW is still doing well and SC2 is still a work in progress with 2 expansions to be released. There is no reason for KeSPA to deviate from what is working right now.
On May 09 2011 22:15 Krehlmar wrote: No offence but in due time Korea will not be the e-gaming capital of the world, my thoughts is just that it has way to many stubborn BW fans/plaers that continue to make SC2 sound like it's "off" in Korea, whilst the rest of the world has realised that SC2 is the chance to make Esports big and thus it's gaining the support it is.
no offence but in due time the SC2 bubble will die and everything you thought was stable will disappear and the SC2 scene will be only a shell of what is around now. let me know if sc2 lasts 10 years, because it wont.
This the concensus in the Anti-SC2 writter scene? That just a few months before major reveals of SC2 next expansion Blizzard capitulated and resigned to giving the rights to broadcast Starcraft?
I don't pretend to know the exact terms of the deal they signed, but just from what the OP, it seems that Blizzard got everything they could want. I'd argue over this point, but since I believe that this can only be good for every party involved, so if SC2 haters believe Blizzard gave up, might not be a bad thing.
I don't represent "writers". I represent myself.
Considering Blizzard initiated contact with KeSPA to negotiate with OGN/MBC, who knows what the terms were.
You do know that just saying who was the first one to initiate contact can and may very well be a term of the contract? Blizzard showing good faith, KeSPA doesn't lose face.
Like I said, I'd argue on this, but really, this deal is good for everyone. So I'd just take it for face value, regardless of what content you prefer to watch.
On May 09 2011 22:47 JustPassingBy wrote: I don't know why people start to talk about sc2. The agreement should be for starcraft 1 only, considering gomtv has the exclusive rights for starcraft 2.
Some people are crossing their fingers and hoping that the agreement also gave out SC2 rights to OGN/MBC/KeSPA, which could potentially mean good things for the growth of the Korean SC2 scene.
Then again, it's perfectly fine if only BW rights were agreed upon in the agreement.
but it would be nice if they had shared rights for both games though,nice for growth,maybe MBC could actually make enough money from SC2 to finally hire stargirls.
On May 09 2011 22:07 Kreb wrote: Oh, and isnt it a bit funny GOM gave back their SCBW broadcasting rights to Blizzard a few weeks ago? =)
This was probably coming already at that time, and since Blizz was coming to an agreement with ogn/mbc, GOM couldnt hold the rights anymore, so Blizz/GOM arranged a return of the rights to Blizz, who in turn now will allow ogn/mbc to broadcast. Maybe GOM having SCBW rights in the first place was probably just to scare ogn/mbc to agree on their demands?
It's more complicated than that, but it has more to do with Blizzard realizing that they can't compete in Korea any more and they don't have the manpower to handle it since half the blizzard korea members apparently left for another company among other things.
they apparently fired their head marketing guy after realising how much of a flop sc2's entry was into korea.
Yeah, that is DES speculation though, but it is true their head guy got demoted, but not sure about anything else.
That actually surprises me, I was under the impression that the lack of success for SC2 had more to do with people not being able to play SC2 in a PC Bang as easy as they can SC BW due to the BNET2 accounts.
No, it more has to do with not many people play RTSes seriously in Korea anymore. Most people just play MMOs nowadays. BW just ingrained itself before MMOs took over everything in Korea
That's correct. Most Koreans are playing MMO junk like Dungeon Fighter. In fact, half the world is playing MMO crap. Even Blizzard has said that SC2 was not worth it financially in an opportunity-cost sense, since an MMO with the same production time/cost would rake in far more. Sad times indeed.
On May 09 2011 22:07 Kreb wrote: Oh, and isnt it a bit funny GOM gave back their SCBW broadcasting rights to Blizzard a few weeks ago? =)
This was probably coming already at that time, and since Blizz was coming to an agreement with ogn/mbc, GOM couldnt hold the rights anymore, so Blizz/GOM arranged a return of the rights to Blizz, who in turn now will allow ogn/mbc to broadcast. Maybe GOM having SCBW rights in the first place was probably just to scare ogn/mbc to agree on their demands?
It's more complicated than that, but it has more to do with Blizzard realizing that they can't compete in Korea any more and they don't have the manpower to handle it since half the blizzard korea members apparently left for another company among other things.
they apparently fired their head marketing guy after realising how much of a flop sc2's entry was into korea.
Yeah, that is DES speculation though, but it is true their head guy got demoted, but not sure about anything else.
That actually surprises me, I was under the impression that the lack of success for SC2 had more to do with people not being able to play SC2 in a PC Bang as easy as they can SC BW due to the BNET2 accounts.
No, it more has to do with not many people play RTSes seriously in Korea anymore. Most people just play MMOs nowadays. BW just ingrained itself before MMOs took over everything in Korea
That's correct. Most Koreans are playing MMO junk like Dungeon Fighter. In fact, half the world is playing MMO crap. Even Blizzard has said that SC2 was not worth it financially in an opportunity-cost sense, since an MMO with the same production time/cost would rake in far more. Sad times indeed.
it was actually Activision that said that SC2 was not worth it financially in an opportunity-cost sense
On May 09 2011 22:07 Kreb wrote: Oh, and isnt it a bit funny GOM gave back their SCBW broadcasting rights to Blizzard a few weeks ago? =)
This was probably coming already at that time, and since Blizz was coming to an agreement with ogn/mbc, GOM couldnt hold the rights anymore, so Blizz/GOM arranged a return of the rights to Blizz, who in turn now will allow ogn/mbc to broadcast. Maybe GOM having SCBW rights in the first place was probably just to scare ogn/mbc to agree on their demands?
It's more complicated than that, but it has more to do with Blizzard realizing that they can't compete in Korea any more and they don't have the manpower to handle it since half the blizzard korea members apparently left for another company among other things.
they apparently fired their head marketing guy after realising how much of a flop sc2's entry was into korea.
Yeah, that is DES speculation though, but it is true their head guy got demoted, but not sure about anything else.
That actually surprises me, I was under the impression that the lack of success for SC2 had more to do with people not being able to play SC2 in a PC Bang as easy as they can SC BW due to the BNET2 accounts.
No, it more has to do with not many people play RTSes seriously in Korea anymore. Most people just play MMOs nowadays. BW just ingrained itself before MMOs took over everything in Korea
That's correct. Most Koreans are playing MMO junk like Dungeon Fighter. In fact, half the world is playing MMO crap. Even Blizzard has said that SC2 was not worth it financially in an opportunity-cost sense, since an MMO with the same production time/cost would rake in far more. Sad times indeed.
Actually the guy who said that was from Activision not Blizzard.
Every single pro-BW enthousiast is looking at the game as being superior in every way. Claims of BW being bigger while in essence the game died outside Korea, save for TSL1/2 in past (before I knew about sc). So people are trying to compare a single country of 40 million inhabitants against the rest of the world with 6+ billion inhabitants.
Korea is one country, one small damn country. If the game doesn't hit on there as much, so be it. But the world is more than just "Korea" and "Broodwar".Get off your high horse and accept that people think different. Else you'll eventually turn the BW community into a bunch of less intelligent species.
And no, I didn't play BW. I do intend to play it later but I am tired of the arrogance and bullcrap.
From a buisness standpoint of view this could be a good thing for Blizzard, remember that the BW infrastructure is already in place, if they get royalities, they get money and none of the production costs.
What they tried (as far as I know ) was to kill BW(fools) and broadcast SC2, that way they would have had marketting, full control of the scene and alot of cash due to the former.
This didn't go that well. Right now I don't even know if the GSL is making money, frankly I wouldn't be suprised that it is losing money at the moment, good thing they have sponsors, but that is not the entire thing. The GSL production costs should be very high(the production quality is good, Kpop groups ain't cheap etc).
Now blizzard realizes that, they decided to take what they could(royalties) and step back.
On May 09 2011 22:15 Krehlmar wrote: No offence but in due time Korea will not be the e-gaming capital of the world, my thoughts is just that it has way to many stubborn BW fans/plaers that continue to make SC2 sound like it's "off" in Korea, whilst the rest of the world has realised that SC2 is the chance to make Esports big and thus it's gaining the support it is.
no offence but you cant fault people for sticking with a better game. last i heard, broodwar is still alot more popular in korea than sc2 so its not really anyone being stubborn, its more like people being honest?
i dont care if red alert 2 became a global e sport with hundreds of teams and billions of dollars, id still watch brood war
People keep saying broodwar is a lot more popular but I've never seen people post where they get their sources (not that I've looked too much though). How and where do I find which games are more popular?
Here's a rough way of estimating.
TSL gets 50K viewers. Given that they have 50K viewers, let's say not everyone can watch it at the same time. I'll be generous, and say that there are 10x the number of people who can't catch it live, so 50K * 10x = 500K SC2 "esports" fans.
BW TV stations still gets like 0.7% ratings in Korea or something, much higher for bigger games (SKT vs KT matches regularly top ratings), and most of the scene is based on online watching. Given Korea's population of 40 mil that's still easily like 400K.
Ok thanks. Do you know the viewers for the gsl? Or do they not get released other than the vods?
In the recent GSL semifinal, Nestea vs Sc on Korean Gomtv.com got 405k views and Gomtv.net (english) get 125k views just on the vods alone. Which dIdn't include live viewership numbers.
On May 09 2011 22:59 Savreth wrote: You know what bothers me most?
Every single pro-BW enthousiast is looking at the game as being superior in every way. Claims of BW being bigger while in essence the game died outside Korea, save for TSL1/2 in past (before I knew about sc). So people are trying to compare a single country of 40 million inhabitants against the rest of the world with 6+ billion inhabitants.
Korea is one country, one small damn country. If the game doesn't hit on there as much, so be it. But the world is more than just "Korea" and "Broodwar".Get off your high horse and accept that people think different. Else you'll eventually turn the BW community into a bunch of less intelligent species.
And no, I didn't play BW. I do intend to play it later but I am tired of the arrogance and bullcrap.
Frankly, I'd like it if another country apart from Korea would rise up, and become the SC2 E-sport country, just leave BW alone is all. I don't care that BW is dead outside of Korea, SC2 can have it all, but not at the cost of BW in Korea.
1 for ESPORTSSS 2 for hurray 3 for more huray. This is incredibly relieving news that ind the end esports flourished because of it, undtill KeSPA and Activision decides to get greedy again (lets hope never :D)
Didn't it take Blizzard like 10 full years to balance BW where it is today? I can't find the youtube link but there is a video that does a timelapse of all the BW balance changes over the years... most of which was pretty imba until recently.
On May 09 2011 22:59 Savreth wrote: You know what bothers me most?
Every single pro-BW enthousiast is looking at the game as being superior in every way. Claims of BW being bigger while in essence the game died outside Korea, save for TSL1/2 in past (before I knew about sc). So people are trying to compare a single country of 40 million inhabitants against the rest of the world with 6+ billion inhabitants.
Korea is one country, one small damn country. If the game doesn't hit on there as much, so be it. But the world is more than just "Korea" and "Broodwar".Get off your high horse and accept that people think different. Else you'll eventually turn the BW community into a bunch of less intelligent species.
And no, I didn't play BW. I do intend to play it later but I am tired of the arrogance and bullcrap.
Frankly, I'd like it if another country apart from Korea would rise up, and become the SC2 E-sport country, just leave BW alone is all. I don't care that BW is dead outside of Korea, SC2 can have it all, but not at the cost of BW in Korea.
On May 09 2011 22:44 Weavel wrote: Awesome news. Maybe Sc:bw and sc2 fans can finally live in peace without the stupid bw vs sc2 wars.
Waiting for an official statement of course...
And I just wanted to say. What wars are you talking about? It's common to say that SC2 is inferior to BW, and I swear to god that it is. Basically even some SC2 players agree. None of them give any serious arguments against this. SC2 users might like to call it a "war" just to lever the value of the game a bit, but it's not so, let's be honest. It's basically just a fact, and (especially if you wish the best to the SC2 scene!) to deny this is really the worst thing you can do to help your favorite game.
I'd recommend ALL of sc2 players learn at least the basics of BW, just to be educated, and then maybe try to watch korean BW streams (though i don't insist on the latter).
Brood War is elite. SC2 is / might become just a good game. There really can be no war between them and between their players, only just discussions. There can be only war between insightful people and aggressive/stupid people, but it doesn't have that much to do with the games they play. =__=
If you want another country where there is insightful Starcraft: Brood War scene and the development of strategy / tournaments - I'll name you this country, it's Russia. Or, let's say more wide, Russian speaking community, including also, as major representatives, Ukraine and Kazakhstan. Often the things that we discuss in our forum then are seen in Korean pro matches and analysis of the game is pretty good too, the good example are coaches of [FR] clan.
On May 09 2011 23:08 eight.BiT wrote: Didn't it take Blizzard like 10 full years to balance BW where it is today? I can't find the youtube link but there is a video that does a timelapse of all the BW balance changes over the years... most of which was pretty imba until recently.
the last actual balance patch(by which I mean balance changes occurred) was around 2002ish.Please stop assuming that it actually took them 10 years to patch BW.
On May 09 2011 23:08 eight.BiT wrote: Didn't it take Blizzard like 10 full years to balance BW where it is today? I can't find the youtube link but there is a video that does a timelapse of all the BW balance changes over the years... most of which was pretty imba until recently.
Nope. They have already released more patches for Sc2 than for broodwar lol.
YES so glad it's finally settled. I hope KeSPA doesn't ever broadcast or promote SC2 though, they will regret it. I don't think anyone I've ever come across who watches and understands both BW and SC2 will ever say that the excitement SC2 brings about is anything worth comparing to BW's. That's probably also the same reason why some SC2ers, especially the very young ones make ridiculously uninformed comments about BW. I mean seriously, just compare a 200 supply zerg vs a 150 supply protoss fight in each SC2 and BW, and you'll get what I mean.
Activision Blizzard... such a joke. All they accomplished with this affair was torpedoing the adaptation of SC2 and the reputation tied to the Blizzard name in Korea.
They obviously don't understand Asia. The Korean scene created something out of nothing - Blizz should have been thankful and humble for that, instead they march in with Texan boots guns blazing and badges flashing "Thanks boys, you've done a fine job, we'll take it from here" - playing the part of the FBI agents who take over a local investigation in a Hollywood movie.
The protective reaction they must have known they'd spark has been detrimental to what could have been a very successful launch of SC2 (they should have put much more focus on the PC bangs) following the Korean Air cooperation (since Korean Air was already very appreciated for their work with BW).
Glad this tragedy has finally come to an end.
As for BW going on - it makes me so happy. The static units are what have me hooked. When watching a BW game, you can see the players in those units. The static, inanimate sprites come to life at the hands of progamers, much like a dead instrument played by a skilled musician.
On May 09 2011 23:12 shucklesors wrote: YES so glad it's finally settled. I hope KeSPA doesn't ever broadcast or promote SC2 though, they will regret it. Why not? I don't think anyone I've ever come across who watches and understands both BW and SC2 will ever say that the excitement SC2 brings about is anything worth comparing to BW's. some are comparable. That's probably also the same reason why some SC2ers, especially the very young ones make ridiculously uninformed comments about BW. they do but,people learn from misinformation. I mean seriously, just compare a 200 supply zerg vs a 150 supply protoss fight in each SC2 and BW, and you'll get what I mean. Don't compare balance of the 2 games,they are the same,yet very much different.
My responses in the quoted post.
the fact that people don't believe in SC2's potential and claim to predict the future is laughable.
On May 09 2011 23:08 eight.BiT wrote: Didn't it take Blizzard like 10 full years to balance BW where it is today? I can't find the youtube link but there is a video that does a timelapse of all the BW balance changes over the years... most of which was pretty imba until recently.
The last balance patch was in 2001.
And lol at the people that bring up the "world wide appeal" of sc2. No one here cares, I've personally been watching a game only one country in the world takes seriously since 2004 and I plan to continue to do so for at least the next ten years.
You come to an incredibly niche community like starcraft and try to bring up shit like appealing to the masses? What a fucking joke.
On May 09 2011 22:59 Savreth wrote: You know what bothers me most?
Every single pro-BW enthousiast is looking at the game as being superior in every way. Claims of BW being bigger while in essence the game died outside Korea, save for TSL1/2 in past (before I knew about sc). So people are trying to compare a single country of 40 million inhabitants against the rest of the world with 6+ billion inhabitants.
Korea is one country, one small damn country. If the game doesn't hit on there as much, so be it. But the world is more than just "Korea" and "Broodwar".Get off your high horse and accept that people think different. Else you'll eventually turn the BW community into a bunch of less intelligent species.
And no, I didn't play BW. I do intend to play it later but I am tired of the arrogance and bullcrap.
Korea is the only country that takes esports seriously on the business and government level. As long as it stays that way, Korea will have a lot to do with the success and failure of all wannabe esports. I challenge you to find a 35 year old non-Korean housewife, who sees it as a serious profession and not something kids do.
On May 09 2011 23:08 eight.BiT wrote: Didn't it take Blizzard like 10 full years to balance BW where it is today? I can't find the youtube link but there is a video that does a timelapse of all the BW balance changes over the years... most of which was pretty imba until recently.
They havent balanced BW since patch 1.08, which was in like 2001.
Looking at this video since I can't find any dates on google.
Says 1.13 was patched 5 different times in 2005. and then 2006 the ladder died.
Personally I think BW is a better game that's more fun to watch, but I have more fun watching SC2 because of how large it's getting. Realistically it's not SC2 or BW, it's either SC2 or nothing.
On May 09 2011 23:12 shucklesors wrote: YES so glad it's finally settled. I hope KeSPA doesn't ever broadcast or promote SC2 though, they will regret it. I don't think anyone I've ever come across who watches and understands both BW and SC2 will ever say that the excitement SC2 brings about is anything worth comparing to BW's. That's probably also the same reason why some SC2ers, especially the very young ones make ridiculously uninformed comments about BW. I mean seriously, just compare a 200 supply zerg vs a 150 supply protoss fight in each SC2 and BW, and you'll get what I mean.
Actually, i get what you mean. In BW, late game army management is actually a skill. In SC2, it's not. Seeing people who hotkey anything that is not a worker or building to 1 becoming SC2 pros, all-killing teams (well, one of those guys all-killed fOu, but fOu isn't even a semi-competent team), winning games, it is just... Well, bizarre. Noone who can appreciate BW would make such comments.
Changing rally points in BW:
Changing rally points in SC2:
Press 4 (all my hatcheries are hotkeyed to 4 in SC2) and then right click.
Great way to start of the day! I didn't think blizzard would end up winning, but it is nice to not have that uglyness looming overhead such a great thing. I hope that BW out lives me.
Although kinda sad to see a bw vs. SC2 debate break out over something that really doesn't have much to do with SC2 at this point.
Edit: Yes, there were patches for years after .08, but .08 was the last one for balance. The others were for minor bugs, ladder inprovemnts, replays, ect.
So. Rediculously. Pumped. However, here's what I see happening:
1: MBCGameHero and OnGameNet Start their own SC2 Tournaments 2: They have regular Korean Tournaments, with free VODs (gogo nevake ) 3: GSL. Gets. Raped.
I mean, just look at the production values for the Existing SC:BW Starleagues right now. Ridiculously good.
I am so happy for eSports. I think the best thing Blizzard can do is let it run free outside of GOM.
On May 09 2011 23:08 eight.BiT wrote: Didn't it take Blizzard like 10 full years to balance BW where it is today? I can't find the youtube link but there is a video that does a timelapse of all the BW balance changes over the years... most of which was pretty imba until recently.
They havent balanced BW since patch 1.08, which was in like 2001.
Looking at this video since I can't find any dates on google.
Says 1.13 was patched 5 different times in 2005. and then 2006 the ladder died.
On May 09 2011 23:08 eight.BiT wrote: Didn't it take Blizzard like 10 full years to balance BW where it is today? I can't find the youtube link but there is a video that does a timelapse of all the BW balance changes over the years... most of which was pretty imba until recently.
They havent balanced BW since patch 1.08, which was in like 2001.
Looking at this video since I can't find any dates on google.
On May 09 2011 23:08 eight.BiT wrote: Didn't it take Blizzard like 10 full years to balance BW where it is today? I can't find the youtube link but there is a video that does a timelapse of all the BW balance changes over the years... most of which was pretty imba until recently.
They havent balanced BW since patch 1.08, which was in like 2001.
Looking at this video since I can't find any dates on google.
I'm very tentative to call this good news. At best it seems like a forewarning that there is going to possibly be good news sometime soon. I think it's best to wait for an official statement. There aren't really many details about what the end result will be in the article.
I'm very confused about why people think that a possible end to the IP rights dispute that would allow OGN/MBC to finally broadcast legally would mean progamers should switch to SC2. If anything it will strengthen people's resolve that BW will be the RTS game in Korea.
I just realized that I hope this means BW can return in WCG. Definitely not this year, but in the future. That would be great.
The only good thing about this is that sponsors will be more willing to back BW with the dispute behind them (and no more negative stigma to supporting an 'unlicensed'/'illegal' tournament). I couldn't really care less about the possibility of OGN/MBCGame sc2 leagues though.
AMAZING news, if this is true. I'll be keeping my fingers crossed until we have official confirmation, though.
BW vs SC2 debates just make me angry. Soooooo much ignorance on both sides.
BW is definitely more popular in Korea than SC2 at the moment, though SC2 seems to have a very healthy niche scene there and is growing rapidly. BW requires lots of skill, is much more developed as an e-sport than SC2 at the moment, and is a good game. SC2 requires lots of skill, is developing at an exponential rate, and is a good game. So sayeth we all.
I don't get where all these blizzard wanted to kill bw comments are coming from. If they wanted to kill it they would have just filed an injunction and you wouldn't have had broadcasted bw anymore.
If they can now cast Starcraft 2 would they even want to because of how unsuccessful Starcraft 2 has been compared to Starcraft 1 for Korean fans?
Personally, I hope they don't broadcast any SC2, leave it to Gom, because they would make SC have a little bit more competition and could possibly be the start of it being phased out a little bit in Korea.
I hope KeSPA doesn't ever broadcast or promote SC2 though, they will regret it.
What they end up doing is up to them, however they can't badmouth any Blizzard products or future endevours. Which mostly means now that they can't badmouth GOM or HotS, which to Blizzard is just as good as them promoting SC2.
"Interviewer: What do you think of HotS?
KeSPA: That is a Blizzard product... No comment."
I don't think anyone I've ever come across who watches and understands both BW and SC2 will ever say that the excitement SC2 brings about is anything worth comparing to BW's. That's probably also the same reason why some SC2ers, especially the very young ones make ridiculously uninformed comments about BW.
I can't comment on what younger SC2ers say, but I enjoy both scenes and while I'm not sure what gets me more excited, I will say it's much easier to get excited about a good match I can watch live without waking up at 5am, in english, featuring international players. The BW scene is just never ever going to deliver in that department. So while I have tons of fun watching BW, I do get more excited when news of a good SC2 match is coming.
I'm glad the great debacle has finally found its end. Lets stop whining about which game is better, its unnecessary after receiving such great news. Even if you find SDM's post as instigating, who cares, he has brought us great news.
SC2 is just isn't going as fast as blizzard had hoped for on Korea.
And you are just blind if you think that BW progamers will transition in the near future. With Blizzard controlling the game flow of SC2, with 2 more expansions to come and how Blizzard has bombarded SC2 with it's patching, I don't think KeSPA will be happy with this if ever they are going to have a department for SC2. It's just too volatile.
Blizzard have never truly balanced BW. The maps, the players' skills, time and money and drama balanced the game for the players and for the fans watching.
But this is just my 2 cents. You can have your opinions on this matter but to me, Blizzard knew they were in the short end of the stick with one.
On May 09 2011 22:15 Krehlmar wrote: No offence but in due time Korea will not be the e-gaming capital of the world, my thoughts is just that it has way to many stubborn BW fans/plaers that continue to make SC2 sound like it's "off" in Korea, whilst the rest of the world has realised that SC2 is the chance to make Esports big and thus it's gaining the support it is.
no offence but in due time the SC2 bubble will die and everything you thought was stable will disappear and the SC2 scene will be only a shell of what is around now. let me know if sc2 lasts 10 years, because it wont.
I think it will. As the beta started, I called SC2 the game (in sense of defining RTS / most prestigious esports title) for the then-next (and now-current) decade.
I hope KeSPA doesn't ever broadcast or promote SC2 though, they will regret it.
What they end up doing is up to them, however they can't badmouth any Blizzard products or future endevours. Which mostly means now that they can't badmouth GOM or HotS, which to Blizzard is just as good as them promoting SC2.
I don't think anyone I've ever come across who watches and understands both BW and SC2 will ever say that the excitement SC2 brings about is anything worth comparing to BW's. That's probably also the same reason why some SC2ers, especially the very young ones make ridiculously uninformed comments about BW.
I can't comment on what younger SC2ers say, but I enjoy both scenes and while I'm not sure what gets me more excited, but I will say it's much easier to get excited about a good match I can watch live without waking up at 5am, in english, featuring international players. The BW scene is just never ever going to deliver in that department. So while I have tons of fun watching BW, I do get more excited when news of a good SC2 match is coming.
[
Thats personal preference, and part of the reason why people will never agree, I don't like waking up at 5 am more then you, but it is so worth it to me. I personally couldn't care less about ''foreigners'', I care about the best players most of them are Korean(a feat noone can deny), but I have no bias. Also there hasn't been a really good english commentator who can deliver the same excitement as Klazart could for me(Watching SC2 with korean commentary is so much better for me btw). A problem with SCBW is that it is hard to understand for the casual person, the fact that it is commentated in Korean is amazing and fun for us(I mean, have you ever seen guys with so much passion?for a game?). However a new person does not understand korean, and does not really know what is going on in the game. Therefore he will have to delve back into older SCBW games, and that is simply not appeasing for him because the community does not watch it with him.
Its personal preference I suppose.
Also I find SCBW more appealing to the eye then SC2 for some reason keke(in most departments).(also personal preference).
Its not nostalgia,the game still exists, its not because I refuse to accept change, frankly I haven't been here very long on Teamliquid. I came here because of SC2 beta, and realized that the game was not what I was looking for, I started following BW again(I used to watch randomly on youtube, jon747/Violetak).
I don't dislike SC2 however: For me , SC2 is a game, SCBW is a sport.
On May 09 2011 23:55 ShadeR wrote: So read page 1 and was like "ohh yeah dispute is over =]" Then read page 11 and was like " =_= (cj face) sc2 infestation =_="
If you were a rabid fanboy, you too, would infest the infidel's forum.
On May 09 2011 23:55 ShadeR wrote: So read page 1 and was like "ohh yeah dispute is over =]" Then read page 11 and was like " =_= (cj face) sc2 infestation =_="
Just be thankful this thread isn't in Community News.
Funny how people keep saying that blizz took 10 years to balance BW when it's actually the community/third party that doing the works. Just take a look at terrible map pool of wc3 and sc2.
Great news for both communites. Everyone involved should take this BW vs SC2 discussion somewhere else, otherwise this thread sooner or later will be closed becouse of your discussion disputes.
Facts reported are that they have postponed court date (4th one I believe) because they are working on a deal. We all knew they were working on a deal so nothing new there.
They may be only a step away from closing a deal, but my fingers are still crossed until they officially announce it.
On May 09 2011 23:55 ShadeR wrote: So read page 1 and was like "ohh yeah dispute is over =]" Then read page 11 and was like " =_= (cj face) sc2 infestation =_="
If you were a rabid fanboy, you too, would infest the infidel's forum.
if you say it like that of course shit like this happens.
Oh boy! The thread turned to SC2 vs BW, and then attacks on the fanbases of those games by proxy! I love these debates because of how rare they are, rarer even then balance whine
-_-
Anyway, if this puts SC2 GSLs in direct competition with BW OSL/MSLs, that's good for both games. It puts a lot of fire under SC2's development, both in terms of expansions and using creative maps to avoid being "brood war lite", and it means Kespa will want to put on better shows with more production values and such, which is always nice.
On May 09 2011 23:59 Shana wrote: Funny how people keep saying that blizz took 10 years to balance BW when it's actually the community/third party that doing the works. Just take a look at terrible map pool of wc3 and sc2.
That's a good point, too. A lot of SC2's development has come from replacing maps like Steppes of War with maps like Terminus RE and Tal'Darim Altar. Emulating maps that worked for Brood War was a logical first step, and I can't wait for people to start really designing maps around the details of SC2. I think island maps work a lot better in SC2 than in BW, and I'd love to see one :3
On May 09 2011 23:55 ShadeR wrote: So read page 1 and was like "ohh yeah dispute is over =]" Then read page 11 and was like " =_= (cj face) sc2 infestation =_="
If you were a rabid fanboy, you too, would infest the infidel's forum.
Eh, this thread was originally posted in the SC2 General section but got moved to the BW General section after a few complaints.
The news kinda affects both scenes, so it's relevant to both kinds of fanboys.
On May 10 2011 00:05 BLinD-RawR wrote: ok happy times people no more BW vs SC2
Oh, dude. You just KNOW there's going to be a literal SC2 vs BW thing; some kind of GOM/Kespa BW/SC2 joint tournament. A lot of SC2 players are former brood war pros, right? Even as a publicity stunt, it'd be baller to see, say, Nada and Flash doing a pair of bo7s, one in BW, one in SC2.
On May 10 2011 00:00 chongu wrote: Well, i'm hoping Boxer/nada/july still be able to participate in all-star events.
I hope not, that would set a terrible precedent. Those players chose to leave BW, gave up their licenses and moved on. Giving them all-star spots over dedicated BW players who work hard for them undermines it.
On May 10 2011 00:05 BLinD-RawR wrote: ok happy times people no more BW vs SC2
Oh, dude. You just KNOW there's going to be a literal SC2 vs BW thing; some kind of GOM/Kespa BW/SC2 joint tournament. A lot of SC2 players are former brood war pros, right? Even as a publicity stunt, it'd be baller to see, say, Nada and Flash doing a pair of bo7s, one in BW, one in SC2.
not even in my worst nightmares,the event would be horribad.
On May 10 2011 00:00 chongu wrote: Well, i'm hoping Boxer/nada/july still be able to participate in all-star events.
I hope not, that would set a terrible precedent. Those players chose to leave BW, gave up their licenses and moved on. Giving them all-star spots over dedicated BW players who work hard for them undermines it.
Besides, SC2 players are spending all their time practicing SC2, they'd be out of practice in BW. Letting bonjwas-turned-SC2 play against current stars would be cool, but it should really be it's own thing.
This is so awesome! Hopefully that the license will not be insanely expensive and unreasonable. Yay~! My dream of being a BW progamer can still be fullfilled! Long live BW!
Awesome, hopefully we get some more SC2 tournaments out there besides GSL. This would probably give foreigners more incentive to move to Korea to compete, and I think everyone would like that.
On May 10 2011 00:05 BLinD-RawR wrote: ok happy times people no more BW vs SC2
I demand to know WHERE YOU ARE GETTING THOSE AWESOME SHEEP! If you don't tell me, my obsessive need to possess and use rainbow sheep in my posts will TEAR ME TO SHREDS!
On May 10 2011 00:05 BLinD-RawR wrote: ok happy times people no more BW vs SC2
Oh, dude. You just KNOW there's going to be a literal SC2 vs BW thing; some kind of GOM/Kespa BW/SC2 joint tournament. A lot of SC2 players are former brood war pros, right? Even as a publicity stunt, it'd be baller to see, say, Nada and Flash doing a pair of bo7s, one in BW, one in SC2.
not even in my worst nightmares,the event would be horribad.
I don't think so. Nada/Boxer/July are still pretty good. Sure, it would be predictable and mainly for novelty value, but it'd still be kind of neat.
On the other hand, if Flash beat Nada in SC2 or Nestea beat Jaedong in BW, the SC2 vs BW debates would be even more insufferable than they are now
I didn't notice mentioned in the OP and forgive me for not reading through 13 pages, but I think GOM still has full rights to SC2 broadcasts in Korea. Anyone wishing to hold a SC2 tournament still must negotiate with GOM. So, no, this probably doesn't mean more SC2 on Korean TV.
On May 10 2011 00:16 Bear4188 wrote: I didn't notice mentioned in the OP and forgive me for not reading through 13 pages, but I think GOM still has full rights to SC2 broadcasts in Korea. Anyone wishing to hold a SC2 tournament still must negotiate with GOM. So, no, this probably doesn't mean more SC2 on Korean TV.
That's bad for the Korean SC2 scene, but good for the foreign SC2 scene, because Korean pros more enter foreign tournaments as a result.
On May 10 2011 00:05 BLinD-RawR wrote: ok happy times people no more BW vs SC2
I demand to know WHERE YOU ARE GETTING THOSE AWESOME SHEEP! If you don't tell me, my obsessive need to possess and use rainbow sheep in my posts will TEAR ME TO SHREDS!
The event would be a blowout. b-teamers and washed up legends dominate sc2.....zergbong will never beat jaedong in BW dude what are you saying lol? More appropriate question what are you smoking? i want some.
On May 10 2011 00:00 chongu wrote: Well, i'm hoping Boxer/nada/july still be able to participate in all-star events. And that OGN/MBC/KESPA and Gom all kiss and make up.
Those all-stars events are for Proleague players. Unless they rejoin their old BW teams, it doesn't make any sense for them to play in the PL/WL all-star event.
Well I guess the good news is that MBC won't be dissolving their BW team any time in the near future.
On May 10 2011 00:05 BLinD-RawR wrote: ok happy times people no more BW vs SC2
Oh, dude. You just KNOW there's going to be a literal SC2 vs BW thing; some kind of GOM/Kespa BW/SC2 joint tournament. A lot of SC2 players are former brood war pros, right? Even as a publicity stunt, it'd be baller to see, say, Nada and Flash doing a pair of bo7s, one in BW, one in SC2.
not even in my worst nightmares,the event would be horribad.
I don't think so. Nada/Boxer/July are still pretty good. Sure, it would be predictable and mainly for novelty value, but it'd still be kind of neat.
On the other hand, if Flash beat Nada in SC2 or Nestea beat Jaedong in BW, the SC2 vs BW debates would be even more insufferable than they are now
There's no way Nada/Boxer/July/Nestea/MC/MVP can hold a candlelight to BW's best. If you look at Reach/Anytime, people who still practice BW and are on teams, you'll see exactly why.
There's also no way you'll convince any top BW player to practice SC2 seriously, since there's no point. Except for maybe Stork, but you gotta present it as a cellphone game.
In any case, such an event would be pretty pointless. I'll still be waiting for the official announcement, but I highly, highly doubt that OGN/MBC will embrace SC2 at all.
All I hope it means is that PL/OSL/MSL will still be going strong. I don't care much for the SC2 scene, as long as it doesn't affect our precious BW scene...
I hope KeSPA doesn't ever broadcast or promote SC2 though, they will regret it.
What they end up doing is up to them, however they can't badmouth any Blizzard products or future endevours. Which mostly means now that they can't badmouth GOM or HotS, which to Blizzard is just as good as them promoting SC2.
"Interviewer: What do you think of HotS?
KeSPA: That is a Blizzard product... No comment."
I don't think anyone I've ever come across who watches and understands both BW and SC2 will ever say that the excitement SC2 brings about is anything worth comparing to BW's. That's probably also the same reason why some SC2ers, especially the very young ones make ridiculously uninformed comments about BW.
I can't comment on what younger SC2ers say, but I enjoy both scenes and while I'm not sure what gets me more excited, but I will say it's much easier to get excited about a good match I can watch live without waking up at 5am, in english, featuring international players. The BW scene is just never ever going to deliver in that department. So while I have tons of fun watching BW, I do get more excited when news of a good SC2 match is coming.
[
Thats personal preference, and part of the reason why people will never agree, I don't like waking up at 5 am more then you, but it is so worth it to me. I personally couldn't care less about ''foreigners'', I care about the best players most of them are Korean(a feat noone can deny), but I have no bias. Also there hasn't been a really good english commentator who can deliver the same excitement as Klazart could for me(Watching SC2 with korean commentary is so much better for me btw). A problem with SCBW is that it is hard to understand for the casual person, the fact that it is commentated in Korean is amazing and fun for us(I mean, have you ever seen guys with so much passion?for a game?). However a new person does not understand korean, and does not really know what is going on in the game. Therefore he will have to delve back into older SCBW games, and that is simply not appeasing for him because the community does not watch it with him.
Its personal preference I suppose.
Also I find SCBW more appealing to the eye then SC2 for some reason keke(in most departments).(also personal preference).
Its not nostalgia,the game still exists, its not because I refuse to accept change, frankly I haven't been here very long on Teamliquid. I came here because of SC2 beta, and realized that the game was not what I was looking for, I started following BW again(I used to watch randomly on youtube, jon747/Violetak).
I don't dislike SC2 however: For me , SC2 is a game, SCBW is a sport.
It certainly helps when you can speak the language. I don't feel limited, I'll still watch VODs and content in Korean. If anything it's pretty exciting to hear them yell out and you don't need to fully understand them (if the guy controlling the camera doesn't suck which usually he is excellent... Loved reading Hot_bids article on the art) to enjoy what is going on.
Where I'm seriously lacking is when it comes to interviews, post game commentary and content broadcasted in my timezone. Tl.net, translators and various writeups compensate and help a ton. So to me the BW scene will never be there, so to it's difficult to get excited about the future of BW.
To me chess is a game, but it doesn't make watching the Candidates tournament any less epic or difficult. Hockey is a game to me too, even though my favorite players could likely spotcheck me into oblivion. I just don't see how calling something a sport but not a game or vice-versa as being a good thing a good sport is both.
On May 10 2011 00:20 ShadeR wrote: The event would be a blowout. b-teamers and washed up legends dominate sc2.....zergbong will never beat jaedong in BW dude what are you saying lol? More appropriate question what are you smoking? i want some.
And likewise, Flash wouldn't beat Nada in a fairly different game that Nada practices 12 hours a day and Flash doesn't. But if he did....ugh, the flamewars that'd result. The sheer possibility of the stars aligning like that turns me off the whole concept .
On May 10 2011 00:20 ShadeR wrote: The event would be a blowout. b-teamers and washed up legends dominate sc2.....zergbong will never beat jaedong in BW dude what are you saying lol? More appropriate question what are you smoking? i want some.
And likewise, Flash wouldn't beat Nada in a fairly different game that Nada practices 12 hours a day and Flash doesn't. But if he did....ugh, the flamewars that'd result. The sheer possibility of the stars aligning like that turns me off the whole concept .
Flash is really really good.
Though to be quite honest, I'd send out forGG/Kwanro/Reality for an SC2 match...
On May 10 2011 00:20 ShadeR wrote: The event would be a blowout. b-teamers and washed up legends dominate sc2.....zergbong will never beat jaedong in BW dude what are you saying lol? More appropriate question what are you smoking? i want some.
And likewise, Flash wouldn't beat Nada in a fairly different game that Nada practices 12 hours a day and Flash doesn't. But if he did....ugh, the flamewars that'd result. The sheer possibility of the stars aligning like that turns me off the whole concept .
nada does not practice 12 hours a day,he's got uni to attend.
Went to court, Korea e-Sports Association (KeSPA) and intellectual property issues between Blizzard seems to be solved soon.
9, a sports newspaper, Blizzard Entertainment and the Korea e-Sports Association to unpack the conflict between the different intellectual property issues for StarCraft have agreed to amicably resolve the contents of the article has. According to the report 13 days following the Seoul Central District Court in civil court and the MBC was scheduled Blizzard Games - OGN with the IPR infringement trial postponed because the 4th also stars the two sides reach an agreement with respect to intellectual property issues, said due to the fact.
In addition, specific details are still discussing jungyijiman Blizzard Korea e-Sports Association and the pro-game, MBC Games - OGN and two games of the broadcasters star a contest held and broadcast and 2nd work recognizes the right of the Association and broadcasters StarCraft licenses for costs and competition within the news that Blizzard is to expose the logo.
The news that the comments are in fact scheduled drill. GSL has been held to present its games for the Bears TV tournament held in Korea and all the exclusive right to broadcast in March last StarCraft, Blizzard gave one back on the right was all about. Blizzard Korea during the "Bear TV star than the Blizzard one for yourself that it was more efficient to manage. Gom TV StarCraft 2 League held an ongoing focus on the future," said intellectual property rights implies that the negotiations had hit a new phase.
Blizzard as a relatively positive attitude to loosen Korea e-Sports industry, and why the conflict deungdayanghan poor analysis of the two stars, but eventually break even for all intellectual property issues on both sides because kkichineun seems to grasp the reality. When negotiations reached on intellectual property had been scheduled for the following 13 cases are also automatically taken.
In this regard, while Blizzard Korea Korea e-Sports Association and the "Can you tell yet that there is nothing concrete." Officially on the reports but does not deny the Sixers.
kangzuck@fomos.co.kr
StarCraft view mobile 1253 + NATE / ⓝ / ez-i Enjoy e-Sports & http://www.fomos.kr prohibits unauthorized copying and redistribution
edit: Damn, this Google Translate is confusing and definitely difficult to read. I can't wait for a real translation.
I hope KeSPA doesn't ever broadcast or promote SC2 though, they will regret it.
What they end up doing is up to them, however they can't badmouth any Blizzard products or future endevours. Which mostly means now that they can't badmouth GOM or HotS, which to Blizzard is just as good as them promoting SC2.
"Interviewer: What do you think of HotS?
KeSPA: That is a Blizzard product... No comment."
I don't think anyone I've ever come across who watches and understands both BW and SC2 will ever say that the excitement SC2 brings about is anything worth comparing to BW's. That's probably also the same reason why some SC2ers, especially the very young ones make ridiculously uninformed comments about BW.
I can't comment on what younger SC2ers say, but I enjoy both scenes and while I'm not sure what gets me more excited, but I will say it's much easier to get excited about a good match I can watch live without waking up at 5am, in english, featuring international players. The BW scene is just never ever going to deliver in that department. So while I have tons of fun watching BW, I do get more excited when news of a good SC2 match is coming.
[
Thats personal preference, and part of the reason why people will never agree, I don't like waking up at 5 am more then you, but it is so worth it to me. I personally couldn't care less about ''foreigners'', I care about the best players most of them are Korean(a feat noone can deny), but I have no bias. Also there hasn't been a really good english commentator who can deliver the same excitement as Klazart could for me(Watching SC2 with korean commentary is so much better for me btw). A problem with SCBW is that it is hard to understand for the casual person, the fact that it is commentated in Korean is amazing and fun for us(I mean, have you ever seen guys with so much passion?for a game?). However a new person does not understand korean, and does not really know what is going on in the game. Therefore he will have to delve back into older SCBW games, and that is simply not appeasing for him because the community does not watch it with him.
Its personal preference I suppose.
Also I find SCBW more appealing to the eye then SC2 for some reason keke(in most departments).(also personal preference).
Its not nostalgia,the game still exists, its not because I refuse to accept change, frankly I haven't been here very long on Teamliquid. I came here because of SC2 beta, and realized that the game was not what I was looking for, I started following BW again(I used to watch randomly on youtube, jon747/Violetak).
I don't dislike SC2 however: For me , SC2 is a game, SCBW is a sport.
It certainly helps when you can speak the language. I don't feel limited, I'll still watch VODs and content in Korean. If anything it's pretty exciting to hear them yell out and you don't need to fully understand them (if the guy controlling the camera doesn't suck which usually he is excellent... Loved reading Hot_bids article on the art) to enjoy what is going on.
Where I'm seriously lacking is when it comes to interviews, post game commentary and content broadcasted in my timezone. Tl.net, translators and various writeups compensate and help a ton. So to me the BW scene will never be there, so to it's difficult to get excited about the future of BW.
To me chess is a game, but it doesn't make watching the Candidates tournament any less epic or difficult. Hockey is a game to me too, even though my favorite players could likely spotcheck me into oblivion. I just don't see how calling something a sport but not a game or vice-versa as being a good thing a good sport is both.
Personal opinion of course.
Wow, Kipsate... You just spoke my mind... Came for sc2, just meh, end up in BW.
Wouldn't Blizzard giving OGN/MBC SC2 rights basically be blizzard stabbing GOM in the back and leaving them out to dry? For one I can't see GOM competing with OGN/MBC in broadcast/production values.
On May 09 2011 21:22 zul wrote: Initially Blizzard requested an unreasonable amount of at least \0,00,000,000? a year(proleague-both individual leagues included)and Kespa rejected the offer.
That seems a bit unreasonable. They should at least ask for a real number.
On May 10 2011 00:35 Taku wrote: Wouldn't Blizzard giving OGN/MBC SC2 rights basically be blizzard stabbing GOM in the back and leaving them out to dry? For one I can't see GOM competing with OGN/MBC in broadcast/production values.
Seriously? The GSL has really good production values with behind-the-scenes documentaries about players and K-pop concerts. I only really watched Brood War via the Violetak account or nukethestars. What have I been missing?
On May 09 2011 21:22 zul wrote: Initially Blizzard requested an unreasonable amount of at least \0,00,000,000? a year(proleague-both individual leagues included)and Kespa rejected the offer.
That seems a bit unreasonable. They should at least ask for a real number.
that's actually standard notation for high fives. ( \0 followed by a comma, and then the amount of high fives) so blizzard was asking for 100,000,000 high fives a year. Considering that's 273,972 a day I'm not surprised kespa called that amount unreasonable.
On May 10 2011 00:35 Taku wrote: Wouldn't Blizzard giving OGN/MBC SC2 rights basically be blizzard stabbing GOM in the back and leaving them out to dry? For one I can't see GOM competing with OGN/MBC in broadcast/production values.
Seriously? The GSL has really good production values with behind-the-scenes documentaries about players and K-pop concerts. I only really watched Brood War via the Violetak account or nukethestars. What have I been missing?
If you watch games live, you'll realize that MSL and OSL has all of those, especially during their respective SLs.
On May 10 2011 00:35 Taku wrote: Wouldn't Blizzard giving OGN/MBC SC2 rights basically be blizzard stabbing GOM in the back and leaving them out to dry? For one I can't see GOM competing with OGN/MBC in broadcast/production values.
Seriously? The GSL has really good production values with behind-the-scenes documentaries about players and K-pop concerts. I only really watched Brood War via the Violetak account or nukethestars. What have I been missing?
If you watch games live, you'll realize that MSL and OSL has all of those, especially during their respective SLs.
But Taku said GOM "couldn't compete", implying BW has all of that and more. I'm curious about the "more"
On May 10 2011 00:35 Taku wrote: Wouldn't Blizzard giving OGN/MBC SC2 rights basically be blizzard stabbing GOM in the back and leaving them out to dry? For one I can't see GOM competing with OGN/MBC in broadcast/production values.
Seriously? The GSL has really good production values with behind-the-scenes documentaries about players and K-pop concerts. I only really watched Brood War via the Violetak account or nukethestars. What have I been missing?
Mystarlegue MBCGame B.net attack Hyungjoon's Series Dream League Advertisements Old Boy Airforce Ace MSL group selections OSL finals
On May 10 2011 00:35 Taku wrote: Wouldn't Blizzard giving OGN/MBC SC2 rights basically be blizzard stabbing GOM in the back and leaving them out to dry? For one I can't see GOM competing with OGN/MBC in broadcast/production values.
Seriously? The GSL has really good production values with behind-the-scenes documentaries about players and K-pop concerts. I only really watched Brood War via the Violetak account or nukethestars. What have I been missing?
If you watch games live, you'll realize that MSL and OSL has all of those, especially during their respective SLs.
But Taku said GOM "couldn't compete", implying BW has all of that and more. I'm curious about the "more"
Given their time on air (If they even have on air time on TV). No, they can't just compete with BW's broadcast/production values.
And do take note that this isn't really BW, It's about the players, not the game.
On May 10 2011 00:35 Taku wrote: Wouldn't Blizzard giving OGN/MBC SC2 rights basically be blizzard stabbing GOM in the back and leaving them out to dry? For one I can't see GOM competing with OGN/MBC in broadcast/production values.
Seriously? The GSL has really good production values with behind-the-scenes documentaries about players and K-pop concerts. I only really watched Brood War via the Violetak account or nukethestars. What have I been missing?
K-pop is the ultimate standard for Starleague production value after all, Dal Shabet was a huge blow to the scene at the latest MSL, however, having GCupz perform at winners league finals made up for it. GSL getting Secret + T-ara is pretty good, but they have a long way to go before their kpop is better than the kpop that bw has had over the past few years.
But I think we can all agree,GSL NEEDS MORE RAINBOW!
On May 10 2011 00:35 Taku wrote: Wouldn't Blizzard giving OGN/MBC SC2 rights basically be blizzard stabbing GOM in the back and leaving them out to dry? For one I can't see GOM competing with OGN/MBC in broadcast/production values.
Seriously? The GSL has really good production values with behind-the-scenes documentaries about players and K-pop concerts. I only really watched Brood War via the Violetak account or nukethestars. What have I been missing?
Mystarlegue MBCGame B.net attack Hyungjoon's Series
On May 10 2011 00:35 Taku wrote: Wouldn't Blizzard giving OGN/MBC SC2 rights basically be blizzard stabbing GOM in the back and leaving them out to dry? For one I can't see GOM competing with OGN/MBC in broadcast/production values.
Seriously? The GSL has really good production values with behind-the-scenes documentaries about players and K-pop concerts. I only really watched Brood War via the Violetak account or nukethestars. What have I been missing?
If you watch games live, you'll realize that MSL and OSL has all of those, especially during their respective SLs.
But Taku said GOM "couldn't compete", implying BW has all of that and more. I'm curious about the "more"
Given their time on air (If they even have on air time on TV). No, they can't just compete with BW's broadcast/production values.
Who cares if KESPA can produce SC2 tournaments. Not even Kim Carrier can make SC2 interesting! Also, I think they mean BW when they say it's settled. I doubt GOM would want to give SC2 away, and I'm not sure KESPA is even interested in SC2, especially since the BW scene seems fairly unaffected by SC2 in Korea. The number of players have probably decreased, but I'm pretty sure the viewer count and ratings are the same.
On May 10 2011 00:33 eviltomahawk wrote: edit: Damn, this Google Translate is confusing and definitely difficult to read. I can't wait for a real translation.
You seriously don't want to let google translate near anything asian unless your just checking a noun. For grammar and coherence it is 100% useless.
Hopefully they can put this behind them, get on with sorting what problems SC2 has, I love it but nothings perfect. BW can carry on, and hopefully maybe get a joint deal between GoM and the tv stations and get some SC2 on tv. Even if not prime time slots, it can't grow if it's not seen.
On May 10 2011 00:40 chogoling wrote: Would be quite interesting to see how (if they do) OGN and MBCgame incorporate sc2 given that OGN was so close to starting OS2L.
Would be awesome if the did, but I dont think KESPA would be ok with it.
I didn't think they'd reach an agreement especially with Blizzard's/Kespa's attitude at the start of the dispute.
curious to see what the terms of the agreed contract are
guessing Blizzard gave up on 50/50 control of any Blizzard related content OGN/MBC produced and requiring OGN/MBC to go through Blizzard for final approval of the content
Why so much love for SC2 being embraced by KESPA? That's the last thing I want to see. Keep it pure. SC2 is for failed foreigner semi-pros, keep SCBW for the real players, keep the SC2 stink out.
On May 10 2011 01:26 udgnim wrote: Korean SC2 teams definitely do need a SC2 proleague system though for more team exposure and better potential for sponsorships.
Seriously. The GSTL was really popular, but GOM seems to consider team games a side show
IGN is thinking about a foreign team league though (and a foreign 2v2 league. That'll be interesting). Maybe that'll help the Korean scene get in gear.
EDIT: I don't think the IPL Team League is as done a deal as I made it out to be, I just remember it from SOTG last week.
On May 10 2011 01:38 eeniebear wrote: Why so much love for SC2 being embraced by KESPA? That's the last thing I want to see. Keep it pure. SC2 is for failed foreigner semi-pros, keep SCBW for the real players, keep the SC2 stink out.
pure my ass,matchfixing scandal shattered that image.
On May 10 2011 01:38 eeniebear wrote: Why so much love for SC2 being embraced by KESPA? That's the last thing I want to see. Keep it pure. SC2 is for failed foreigner semi-pros, keep SCBW for the real players, keep the SC2 stink out.
Have you even read the statement? Kespa is getting the BW rights and the BW rights only. GOM still have all the rights over SC2 which means that things is going to keep on going like they have been for the last year.
On May 10 2011 01:38 eeniebear wrote: Why so much love for SC2 being embraced by KESPA? That's the last thing I want to see. Keep it pure. SC2 is for failed foreigner semi-pros, keep SCBW for the real players, keep the SC2 stink out.
I believe that this news is good for SCBW too, meaning that they can hold the SCBW legally/legitimately now.
From the article, "The agreement is believed to have arrived due to starcraft2’s failure to be embraced by the Korean fans". That means they will focus more on SCBW rather than SC2.
On May 10 2011 01:38 eeniebear wrote: Why so much love for SC2 being embraced by KESPA? That's the last thing I want to see. Keep it pure. SC2 is for failed foreigner semi-pros, keep SCBW for the real players, keep the SC2 stink out.
I couldnt give a shit about whether sc2 succeeds or fails, this news is very good for the bw scene though
On May 10 2011 01:38 eeniebear wrote: Why so much love for SC2 being embraced by KESPA? That's the last thing I want to see. Keep it pure. SC2 is for failed foreigner semi-pros, keep SCBW for the real players, keep the SC2 stink out.
pure my ass,matchfixing scandal shattered that image.
How about we compromise? Starcraft 2 is for washed up senior citizens, and Brood War is for the mafia.
There, now there's no reason anyone should be angry
On May 09 2011 22:15 Krehlmar wrote: No offence but in due time Korea will not be the e-gaming capital of the world, my thoughts is just that it has way to many stubborn BW fans/plaers that continue to make SC2 sound like it's "off" in Korea, whilst the rest of the world has realised that SC2 is the chance to make Esports big and thus it's gaining the support it is.
no offence but in due time the SC2 bubble will die and everything you thought was stable will disappear and the SC2 scene will be only a shell of what is around now. let me know if sc2 lasts 10 years, because it wont.
What the heck are you talking about? I played sc2 when it came out and i had 1 friend who played with me. Almost a year later and now I have 8 friends who play the game and they all have started to watch pro games. From my perspective, the game is getting bigger and more popular. Unless there is an adequate replacement, sc2 is going to be popular for a loooong time. Maybe not in korea, but that doesn't matter to me.
On May 09 2011 22:15 Krehlmar wrote: No offence but in due time Korea will not be the e-gaming capital of the world, my thoughts is just that it has way to many stubborn BW fans/plaers that continue to make SC2 sound like it's "off" in Korea, whilst the rest of the world has realised that SC2 is the chance to make Esports big and thus it's gaining the support it is.
no offence but in due time the SC2 bubble will die and everything you thought was stable will disappear and the SC2 scene will be only a shell of what is around now. let me know if sc2 lasts 10 years, because it wont.
What the heck are you talking about? I played sc2 when it came out and i had 1 friend who played with me. Almost a year later and now I have 8 friends who play the game and they all have started to watch pro games. From my perspective, the game is getting bigger and more popular. Unless there is an adequate replacement, sc2 is going to be popular for a loooong time. Maybe not in korea, but that doesn't matter to me.
What he means is that it might go the way of the Warcraft III, which also was hugely popular, highly anticipated, money everywhere, but ended up being a shell of its former self, except in China perhaps, but Dota reigns supreme there, not Warcraft III itself.
Sponsors realized that there was no money in it, so they pulled out, massivly, the bubble exploded, and now WCIII is merely a shadow of its former self.
On May 09 2011 22:15 Krehlmar wrote: No offence but in due time Korea will not be the e-gaming capital of the world, my thoughts is just that it has way to many stubborn BW fans/plaers that continue to make SC2 sound like it's "off" in Korea, whilst the rest of the world has realised that SC2 is the chance to make Esports big and thus it's gaining the support it is.
no offence but in due time the SC2 bubble will die and everything you thought was stable will disappear and the SC2 scene will be only a shell of what is around now. let me know if sc2 lasts 10 years, because it wont.
What the heck are you talking about? I played sc2 when it came out and i had 1 friend who played with me. Almost a year later and now I have 8 friends who play the game and they all have started to watch pro games. From my perspective, the game is getting bigger and more popular. Unless there is an adequate replacement, sc2 is going to be popular for a loooong time. Maybe not in korea, but that doesn't matter to me.
What he means is that it might go the way of the Warcraft III, which also was hugely popular, highly anticipated, money everywhere, but ended up being a shell of its former self, except in China perhaps, but Dota reigns supreme there, not Warcraft III itself.
Sponsors realized that there was no money in it, so they pulled out, massivly, the bubble exploded, and now WCIII is merely a shadow of its former self.
What he means is that he wants to turn the thread into yet another BW vs SC2 flamewar. Which he did quite successfully, not that it's hard.
On May 09 2011 22:15 Krehlmar wrote: No offence but in due time Korea will not be the e-gaming capital of the world, my thoughts is just that it has way to many stubborn BW fans/plaers that continue to make SC2 sound like it's "off" in Korea, whilst the rest of the world has realised that SC2 is the chance to make Esports big and thus it's gaining the support it is.
no offence but in due time the SC2 bubble will die and everything you thought was stable will disappear and the SC2 scene will be only a shell of what is around now. let me know if sc2 lasts 10 years, because it wont.
What the heck are you talking about? I played sc2 when it came out and i had 1 friend who played with me. Almost a year later and now I have 8 friends who play the game and they all have started to watch pro games. From my perspective, the game is getting bigger and more popular. Unless there is an adequate replacement, sc2 is going to be popular for a loooong time. Maybe not in korea, but that doesn't matter to me.
What he means is that it might go the way of the Warcraft III, which also was hugely popular, highly anticipated, money everywhere, but ended up being a shell of its former self, except in China perhaps, but Dota reigns supreme there, not Warcraft III itself.
Sponsors realized that there was no money in it, so they pulled out, massivly, the bubble exploded, and now WCIII is merely a shadow of its former self.
What he means is that he wants to turn the thread into yet another BW vs SC2 flamewar. Which he did quite successfully, not that it's hard.
Sigh, the guy provoked it, a harsh response on the BW forums insulting BW, ofcourse he responses such. This is the BW forums, don't expect anything different then people defending BW and disregarding SC2.
On May 09 2011 22:15 Krehlmar wrote: No offence but in due time Korea will not be the e-gaming capital of the world, my thoughts is just that it has way to many stubborn BW fans/plaers that continue to make SC2 sound like it's "off" in Korea, whilst the rest of the world has realised that SC2 is the chance to make Esports big and thus it's gaining the support it is.
no offence but in due time the SC2 bubble will die and everything you thought was stable will disappear and the SC2 scene will be only a shell of what is around now. let me know if sc2 lasts 10 years, because it wont.
What the heck are you talking about? I played sc2 when it came out and i had 1 friend who played with me. Almost a year later and now I have 8 friends who play the game and they all have started to watch pro games. From my perspective, the game is getting bigger and more popular. Unless there is an adequate replacement, sc2 is going to be popular for a loooong time. Maybe not in korea, but that doesn't matter to me.
What he means is that it might go the way of the Warcraft III, which also was hugely popular, highly anticipated, money everywhere, but ended up being a shell of its former self, except in China perhaps, but Dota reigns supreme there, not Warcraft III itself.
Sponsors realized that there was no money in it, so they pulled out, massivly, the bubble exploded, and now WCIII is merely a shadow of its former self.
What he means is that he wants to turn the thread into yet another BW vs SC2 flamewar. Which he did quite successfully, not that it's hard.
Sigh, the guy provoked it, a harsh response on the BW forums insulting BW, ofcourse he responses such. This is the BW forums, don't expect anything different then people defending BW and disregarding SC2.
This thread was originally posted in the SC2 forums, which is where it was when Milkis showed up.
On May 09 2011 22:15 Krehlmar wrote: No offence but in due time Korea will not be the e-gaming capital of the world, my thoughts is just that it has way to many stubborn BW fans/plaers that continue to make SC2 sound like it's "off" in Korea, whilst the rest of the world has realised that SC2 is the chance to make Esports big and thus it's gaining the support it is.
no offence but in due time the SC2 bubble will die and everything you thought was stable will disappear and the SC2 scene will be only a shell of what is around now. let me know if sc2 lasts 10 years, because it wont.
What the heck are you talking about? I played sc2 when it came out and i had 1 friend who played with me. Almost a year later and now I have 8 friends who play the game and they all have started to watch pro games. From my perspective, the game is getting bigger and more popular. Unless there is an adequate replacement, sc2 is going to be popular for a loooong time. Maybe not in korea, but that doesn't matter to me.
What he means is that it might go the way of the Warcraft III, which also was hugely popular, highly anticipated, money everywhere, but ended up being a shell of its former self, except in China perhaps, but Dota reigns supreme there, not Warcraft III itself.
Sponsors realized that there was no money in it, so they pulled out, massivly, the bubble exploded, and now WCIII is merely a shadow of its former self.
What he means is that he wants to turn the thread into yet another BW vs SC2 flamewar. Which he did quite successfully, not that it's hard.
Sigh, the guy provoked it, a harsh response on the BW forums insulting BW, ofcourse he responses such. This is the BW forums, don't expect anything different then people defending BW and disregarding SC2.
This thread was originally posted in the SC2 forums, which is where it was when Milkis showed up.
Fair enough, forgot that, still it is pretty insulting, a harsh post sometimes needs to be confronted with another harsh post. It concerned BW being ''free'', don't expect BW people to just stand while we get insulted.
Yay! This is great news, I'm glad that it's finally over. Now the race to 300 wins that Flash talked about is secure Anyway in my opinion it HAD to end in this fashion; between OGN / MBC / KeSPA, and all their sponsors, there's too much money and too many interests involved. I'm no law expert but all in all I believe that this whole case did end relatively well for both parties
On May 09 2011 22:15 Krehlmar wrote: No offence but in due time Korea will not be the e-gaming capital of the world, my thoughts is just that it has way to many stubborn BW fans/plaers that continue to make SC2 sound like it's "off" in Korea, whilst the rest of the world has realised that SC2 is the chance to make Esports big and thus it's gaining the support it is.
no offence but in due time the SC2 bubble will die and everything you thought was stable will disappear and the SC2 scene will be only a shell of what is around now. let me know if sc2 lasts 10 years, because it wont.
What the heck are you talking about? I played sc2 when it came out and i had 1 friend who played with me. Almost a year later and now I have 8 friends who play the game and they all have started to watch pro games. From my perspective, the game is getting bigger and more popular. Unless there is an adequate replacement, sc2 is going to be popular for a loooong time. Maybe not in korea, but that doesn't matter to me.
What he means is that it might go the way of the Warcraft III, which also was hugely popular, highly anticipated, money everywhere, but ended up being a shell of its former self, except in China perhaps, but Dota reigns supreme there, not Warcraft III itself.
Sponsors realized that there was no money in it, so they pulled out, massivly, the bubble exploded, and now WCIII is merely a shadow of its former self.
What he means is that he wants to turn the thread into yet another BW vs SC2 flamewar. Which he did quite successfully, not that it's hard.
Sigh, the guy provoked it, a harsh response on the BW forums insulting BW, ofcourse he responses such. This is the BW forums, don't expect anything different then people defending BW and disregarding SC2.
Krehlmar's post didn't insult BW. BW won't grow esports outside of Korea, that's a fact not an oppinion.
On May 09 2011 22:15 Krehlmar wrote: No offence but in due time Korea will not be the e-gaming capital of the world, my thoughts is just that it has way to many stubborn BW fans/plaers that continue to make SC2 sound like it's "off" in Korea, whilst the rest of the world has realised that SC2 is the chance to make Esports big and thus it's gaining the support it is.
I don't really want to contribute to the flame war, but I do have to make one point. Brood War isn't gonna last forever, and I'm sure you all know that. This is only the beginning of SC2, it WILL get better for you BW folks. And it will inevitably rise, there's no doubt to that. Juss' sayin'.
On May 09 2011 22:15 Krehlmar wrote: No offence but in due time Korea will not be the e-gaming capital of the world, my thoughts is just that it has way to many stubborn BW fans/plaers that continue to make SC2 sound like it's "off" in Korea, whilst the rest of the world has realised that SC2 is the chance to make Esports big and thus it's gaining the support it is.
no offence but in due time the SC2 bubble will die and everything you thought was stable will disappear and the SC2 scene will be only a shell of what is around now. let me know if sc2 lasts 10 years, because it wont.
What the heck are you talking about? I played sc2 when it came out and i had 1 friend who played with me. Almost a year later and now I have 8 friends who play the game and they all have started to watch pro games. From my perspective, the game is getting bigger and more popular. Unless there is an adequate replacement, sc2 is going to be popular for a loooong time. Maybe not in korea, but that doesn't matter to me.
What he means is that it might go the way of the Warcraft III, which also was hugely popular, highly anticipated, money everywhere, but ended up being a shell of its former self, except in China perhaps, but Dota reigns supreme there, not Warcraft III itself.
Sponsors realized that there was no money in it, so they pulled out, massivly, the bubble exploded, and now WCIII is merely a shadow of its former self.
What he means is that he wants to turn the thread into yet another BW vs SC2 flamewar. Which he did quite successfully, not that it's hard.
Sigh, the guy provoked it, a harsh response on the BW forums insulting BW, ofcourse he responses such. This is the BW forums, don't expect anything different then people defending BW and disregarding SC2.
This thread was originally posted in the SC2 forums, which is where it was when Milkis showed up.
Fair enough, forgot that, still it is pretty insulting, a harsh post sometimes needs to be confronted with another harsh post.
I just don't understand why milkis is trying to provoke a reaction. SC2 and SCBW are both great games. SCBW has had time and effort to solidify itself as the premier RTS in korea, but sc2 is starting out great. W3 had problems being a competitive sport since it was very difficult to balance, however, sc2 has had competitive multiplayer at the front the entire time. Blizzard will be investing in sc2 for the next 3 years anyway, so trying to make it the best game possible and best esport should be the goal.
SC2 has a lot of hype around it, but that's the only way it can succeed. GOMTV has done a great job promoting the game and I hope that the success continues. I also enjoy watching SCBW games (mostly just the finals) but there's no reason both can't exist at the same time.
For the negotiations i'm guessing it's something like Blizzard gets a certain dollar amount. Kespa must put the blizzard logo and show a short clip about sc2 every X minutes (probably every hour of broadcasting).
On May 09 2011 22:15 Krehlmar wrote: No offence but in due time Korea will not be the e-gaming capital of the world, my thoughts is just that it has way to many stubborn BW fans/plaers that continue to make SC2 sound like it's "off" in Korea, whilst the rest of the world has realised that SC2 is the chance to make Esports big and thus it's gaining the support it is.
no offence but in due time the SC2 bubble will die and everything you thought was stable will disappear and the SC2 scene will be only a shell of what is around now. let me know if sc2 lasts 10 years, because it wont.
What the heck are you talking about? I played sc2 when it came out and i had 1 friend who played with me. Almost a year later and now I have 8 friends who play the game and they all have started to watch pro games. From my perspective, the game is getting bigger and more popular. Unless there is an adequate replacement, sc2 is going to be popular for a loooong time. Maybe not in korea, but that doesn't matter to me.
What he means is that it might go the way of the Warcraft III, which also was hugely popular, highly anticipated, money everywhere, but ended up being a shell of its former self, except in China perhaps, but Dota reigns supreme there, not Warcraft III itself.
Sponsors realized that there was no money in it, so they pulled out, massivly, the bubble exploded, and now WCIII is merely a shadow of its former self.
What he means is that he wants to turn the thread into yet another BW vs SC2 flamewar. Which he did quite successfully, not that it's hard.
Sigh, the guy provoked it, a harsh response on the BW forums insulting BW, ofcourse he responses such. This is the BW forums, don't expect anything different then people defending BW and disregarding SC2.
This thread was originally posted in the SC2 forums, which is where it was when Milkis showed up.
Fair enough, forgot that, still it is pretty insulting, a harsh post sometimes needs to be confronted with another harsh post.
I just don't understand why milkis is trying to provoke a reaction. SC2 and SCBW are both great games. SCBW has had time and effort to solidify itself as the premier RTS in korea, but sc2 is starting out great. W3 had problems being a competitive sport since it was very difficult to balance, however, sc2 has had competitive multiplayer at the front the entire time. Blizzard will be investing in sc2 for the next 3 years anyway, so trying to make it the best game possible and best esport should be the goal.
SC2 has a lot of hype around it, but that's the only way it can succeed. GOMTV has done a great job promoting the game and I hope that the success continues. I also enjoy watching SCBW games (mostly just the finals) but there's no reason both can't exist at the same time.
For the negotiations i'm guessing it's something like Blizzard gets a certain dollar amount. Kespa must put the blizzard logo and show a short clip about sc2 every X minutes (probably every hour of broadcasting).
On May 10 2011 01:06 Torpedo.Vegas wrote: Can 3 major SC2 leagues be sustainable at the this point in Korea?
just ask msl osl proleague. kespa seems to be able to handle 3 big events. imagine ms2l os2l gsl. would be sick. more players would wanna play, more sponsership, etc
On May 09 2011 22:15 Krehlmar wrote: No offence but in due time Korea will not be the e-gaming capital of the world, my thoughts is just that it has way to many stubborn BW fans/plaers that continue to make SC2 sound like it's "off" in Korea, whilst the rest of the world has realised that SC2 is the chance to make Esports big and thus it's gaining the support it is.
How is this not insulting?
He didn't say a bad word about BW as you said he did. He might have offended some fans, or to be more precise, SC2-haters - which Milkis proved to be the case.
I don't think you people deserve to judge Milkis for what he posted, considering he probably knows more about progaming then most of us do and he is responsible for writing front page articles for Broodwar for a long long time.
On May 09 2011 22:15 Krehlmar wrote: No offence but in due time Korea will not be the e-gaming capital of the world, my thoughts is just that it has way to many stubborn BW fans/plaers that continue to make SC2 sound like it's "off" in Korea, whilst the rest of the world has realised that SC2 is the chance to make Esports big and thus it's gaining the support it is.
How is this not insulting?
He didn't say a bad word about BW as you said he did. He might have offended some fans, or to be more precise, SC2-haters - which Milkis proved to be the case.
He didnt? He called BW fans stubborn He basically said that we fail to realize that SC2 is big(we don't).
How is that not insulting?
He also said no offense, which is textbook , uh this is actually going to offend you, but ill just say that it won't.
On May 09 2011 22:15 Krehlmar wrote: No offence but in due time Korea will not be the e-gaming capital of the world, my thoughts is just that it has way to many stubborn BW fans/plaers that continue to make SC2 sound like it's "off" in Korea, whilst the rest of the world has realised that SC2 is the chance to make Esports big and thus it's gaining the support it is.
no offence but in due time the SC2 bubble will die and everything you thought was stable will disappear and the SC2 scene will be only a shell of what is around now. let me know if sc2 lasts 10 years, because it wont.
What the heck are you talking about? I played sc2 when it came out and i had 1 friend who played with me. Almost a year later and now I have 8 friends who play the game and they all have started to watch pro games. From my perspective, the game is getting bigger and more popular. Unless there is an adequate replacement, sc2 is going to be popular for a loooong time. Maybe not in korea, but that doesn't matter to me.
What he means is that it might go the way of the Warcraft III, which also was hugely popular, highly anticipated, money everywhere, but ended up being a shell of its former self, except in China perhaps, but Dota reigns supreme there, not Warcraft III itself.
Sponsors realized that there was no money in it, so they pulled out, massivly, the bubble exploded, and now WCIII is merely a shadow of its former self.
What he means is that he wants to turn the thread into yet another BW vs SC2 flamewar. Which he did quite successfully, not that it's hard.
Sigh, the guy provoked it, a harsh response on the BW forums insulting BW, ofcourse he responses such. This is the BW forums, don't expect anything different then people defending BW and disregarding SC2.
This thread was originally posted in the SC2 forums, which is where it was when Milkis showed up.
Fair enough, forgot that, still it is pretty insulting, a harsh post sometimes needs to be confronted with another harsh post.
I just don't understand why milkis is trying to provoke a reaction. SC2 and SCBW are both great games. SCBW has had time and effort to solidify itself as the premier RTS in korea, but sc2 is starting out great. W3 had problems being a competitive sport since it was very difficult to balance, however, sc2 has had competitive multiplayer at the front the entire time. Blizzard will be investing in sc2 for the next 3 years anyway, so trying to make it the best game possible and best esport should be the goal.
SC2 has a lot of hype around it, but that's the only way it can succeed. GOMTV has done a great job promoting the game and I hope that the success continues. I also enjoy watching SCBW games (mostly just the finals) but there's no reason both can't exist at the same time.
For the negotiations i'm guessing it's something like Blizzard gets a certain dollar amount. Kespa must put the blizzard logo and show a short clip about sc2 every X minutes (probably every hour of broadcasting).
Khrelmar provoked a reaction
he got it.
Oh my Christ, are we seriously having a flame war about the flame war we just had?
no offence but in due time the SC2 bubble will die and everything you thought was stable will disappear and the SC2 scene will be only a shell of what is around now. let me know if sc2 lasts 10 years, because it wont.
What the heck are you talking about? I played sc2 when it came out and i had 1 friend who played with me. Almost a year later and now I have 8 friends who play the game and they all have started to watch pro games. From my perspective, the game is getting bigger and more popular. Unless there is an adequate replacement, sc2 is going to be popular for a loooong time. Maybe not in korea, but that doesn't matter to me.
What he means is that it might go the way of the Warcraft III, which also was hugely popular, highly anticipated, money everywhere, but ended up being a shell of its former self, except in China perhaps, but Dota reigns supreme there, not Warcraft III itself.
Sponsors realized that there was no money in it, so they pulled out, massivly, the bubble exploded, and now WCIII is merely a shadow of its former self.
What he means is that he wants to turn the thread into yet another BW vs SC2 flamewar. Which he did quite successfully, not that it's hard.
Sigh, the guy provoked it, a harsh response on the BW forums insulting BW, ofcourse he responses such. This is the BW forums, don't expect anything different then people defending BW and disregarding SC2.
This thread was originally posted in the SC2 forums, which is where it was when Milkis showed up.
Fair enough, forgot that, still it is pretty insulting, a harsh post sometimes needs to be confronted with another harsh post.
I just don't understand why milkis is trying to provoke a reaction. SC2 and SCBW are both great games. SCBW has had time and effort to solidify itself as the premier RTS in korea, but sc2 is starting out great. W3 had problems being a competitive sport since it was very difficult to balance, however, sc2 has had competitive multiplayer at the front the entire time. Blizzard will be investing in sc2 for the next 3 years anyway, so trying to make it the best game possible and best esport should be the goal.
SC2 has a lot of hype around it, but that's the only way it can succeed. GOMTV has done a great job promoting the game and I hope that the success continues. I also enjoy watching SCBW games (mostly just the finals) but there's no reason both can't exist at the same time.
For the negotiations i'm guessing it's something like Blizzard gets a certain dollar amount. Kespa must put the blizzard logo and show a short clip about sc2 every X minutes (probably every hour of broadcasting).
Khrelmar provoked a reaction
he got it.
Oh my Christ, are we seriously having a flame war about the flame war we just had?
I thought I could end it with my explenation of Milkis his post, you continued it.
What he means is that he wants to turn the thread into yet another BW vs SC2 flamewar. Which he did quite successfully, not that it's hard.
Activision Lulzzard (dont confuse it with old Blizzard)! Now you see that you cant control everything. Just get your money from KESPA for licence and get lost!
well this is awesome news. This is exactly what I was hoping for, that they could come to some reasonable agreement and KEEP HAVING BW!!!!!! YESSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Finally Blizzard caved in and gave up. This seems very well to have been the product of SC2's failure, like the Korean journalists seem to suggest. Without SC2 having any chance to replace SC BW, there no longer was the incentive for Blizzard to drive this issue off a cliff. The risk of becoming permanent enemies with the Korean infrastructure as well as losing in court must have made them to accept the standard license fee and abandon this idea of intellectual property of esports matches being the property of the developers because they foresaw and programmed in the game every move the player could choose to make.
Kespa, thank you thank you for protecting the rights of our players and defeating Blizzard. We all owe you once again. The community shouldn't soon forget Kespa for what they did for us here and give them some more leniency in the future if a fan favorite like Backho gets QDed because of his own mistake.
On May 10 2011 00:35 Taku wrote: Wouldn't Blizzard giving OGN/MBC SC2 rights basically be blizzard stabbing GOM in the back and leaving them out to dry? For one I can't see GOM competing with OGN/MBC in broadcast/production values.
Seriously? The GSL has really good production values with behind-the-scenes documentaries about players and K-pop concerts. I only really watched Brood War via the Violetak account or nukethestars. What have I been missing?
If you watch games live, you'll realize that MSL and OSL has all of those, especially during their respective SLs.
but what they dont have is english commentators. if they add that and subtitles maybe then i would love that.
What the heck are you talking about? I played sc2 when it came out and i had 1 friend who played with me. Almost a year later and now I have 8 friends who play the game and they all have started to watch pro games. From my perspective, the game is getting bigger and more popular. Unless there is an adequate replacement, sc2 is going to be popular for a loooong time. Maybe not in korea, but that doesn't matter to me.
What he means is that it might go the way of the Warcraft III, which also was hugely popular, highly anticipated, money everywhere, but ended up being a shell of its former self, except in China perhaps, but Dota reigns supreme there, not Warcraft III itself.
Sponsors realized that there was no money in it, so they pulled out, massivly, the bubble exploded, and now WCIII is merely a shadow of its former self.
What he means is that he wants to turn the thread into yet another BW vs SC2 flamewar. Which he did quite successfully, not that it's hard.
Sigh, the guy provoked it, a harsh response on the BW forums insulting BW, ofcourse he responses such. This is the BW forums, don't expect anything different then people defending BW and disregarding SC2.
This thread was originally posted in the SC2 forums, which is where it was when Milkis showed up.
Fair enough, forgot that, still it is pretty insulting, a harsh post sometimes needs to be confronted with another harsh post.
I just don't understand why milkis is trying to provoke a reaction. SC2 and SCBW are both great games. SCBW has had time and effort to solidify itself as the premier RTS in korea, but sc2 is starting out great. W3 had problems being a competitive sport since it was very difficult to balance, however, sc2 has had competitive multiplayer at the front the entire time. Blizzard will be investing in sc2 for the next 3 years anyway, so trying to make it the best game possible and best esport should be the goal.
SC2 has a lot of hype around it, but that's the only way it can succeed. GOMTV has done a great job promoting the game and I hope that the success continues. I also enjoy watching SCBW games (mostly just the finals) but there's no reason both can't exist at the same time.
For the negotiations i'm guessing it's something like Blizzard gets a certain dollar amount. Kespa must put the blizzard logo and show a short clip about sc2 every X minutes (probably every hour of broadcasting).
Khrelmar provoked a reaction
he got it.
Oh my Christ, are we seriously having a flame war about the flame war we just had?
I thought I could end it with my explenation of Milkis his post, you continued it.
When people start watching SC2 in their countries's main national air plane hangar that's when i'll consider that Korea is not the leading country in e - sports . I don't see that happening so i also take offence from what Krehlmar said . This are our opinions , but i also think that SC2 will die before reaching that height . And also yeah SC2 is pretty "off" compared to BW in Korea .
On May 10 2011 02:36 Suisen wrote: Finally Blizzard caved in and gave up. This seems very well to have been the product of SC2's failure, like the Korean journalists seem to suggest. Without SC2 having any chance to replace SC BW, there no longer was the incentive for Blizzard to drive this issue off a cliff. The risk of becoming permanent enemies with the Korean infrastructure as well as losing in court must have made them to accept the standard license fee and abandon this idea of intellectual property of esports matches being the property of the developers because they foresaw and programmed in the game every move the player could choose to make.
Kespa, thank you thank you for protecting the rights of our players and defeating Blizzard. We all owe you once again. The community shouldn't soon forget Kespa for what they did for us here and give them some more leniency in the future if a fan favorite like Backho gets QDed because of his own mistake.
That was an...interesting interpretation of what happen. Completely wrong, but interesting.
On May 10 2011 00:35 Taku wrote: Wouldn't Blizzard giving OGN/MBC SC2 rights basically be blizzard stabbing GOM in the back and leaving them out to dry? For one I can't see GOM competing with OGN/MBC in broadcast/production values.
Seriously? The GSL has really good production values with behind-the-scenes documentaries about players and K-pop concerts. I only really watched Brood War via the Violetak account or nukethestars. What have I been missing?
If you watch games live, you'll realize that MSL and OSL has all of those, especially during their respective SLs.
but what they dont have is english commentators. if they add that and subtitles maybe then i would love that.
They broadcast live and unscripted, you can't subtitle that. And I much much prefer the korean commentators to any english commentator.
On May 10 2011 02:36 Suisen wrote: Finally Blizzard caved in and gave up. This seems very well to have been the product of SC2's failure, like the Korean journalists seem to suggest. Without SC2 having any chance to replace SC BW, there no longer was the incentive for Blizzard to drive this issue off a cliff. The risk of becoming permanent enemies with the Korean infrastructure as well as losing in court must have made them to accept the standard license fee and abandon this idea of intellectual property of esports matches being the property of the developers because they foresaw and programmed in the game every move the player could choose to make.
Kespa, thank you thank you for protecting the rights of our players and defeating Blizzard. We all owe you once again. The community shouldn't soon forget Kespa for what they did for us here and give them some more leniency in the future if a fan favorite like Backho gets QDed because of his own mistake.
That was an...interesting interpretation of what happen. Completely wrong, but interesting.
Hahahaha, yea. That sad thing is seeing just how many people view it like this in past threads.
On May 10 2011 02:36 Suisen wrote: Finally Blizzard caved in and gave up. This seems very well to have been the product of SC2's failure, like the Korean journalists seem to suggest. Without SC2 having any chance to replace SC BW, there no longer was the incentive for Blizzard to drive this issue off a cliff. The risk of becoming permanent enemies with the Korean infrastructure as well as losing in court must have made them to accept the standard license fee and abandon this idea of intellectual property of esports matches being the property of the developers because they foresaw and programmed in the game every move the player could choose to make.
Kespa, thank you thank you for protecting the rights of our players and defeating Blizzard. We all owe you once again. The community shouldn't soon forget Kespa for what they did for us here and give them some more leniency in the future if a fan favorite like Backho gets QDed because of his own mistake.
On May 10 2011 02:46 syllogism wrote: Kespa gave up, actually
Where does it say Kespa and OGN/MBC stop doing SC BW?
Things will go back to how they used to be before SC2. Blizzard will again accept the standard license fee and give up on this concept that they have intellectual property over the esports matches the players produce.
Next step will be Blizzard stopping their huge funds to Gomtv and handing over SC2 to Kespa/OGN/MBC. Only then we will learn what is the true potential of SC2 to compete with SC BW.
I thank Blizzard for being so incompetent and extending the life of SC BW for another few years because of this silly legal argument then now have abandoned.
On May 09 2011 21:22 zul wrote: Both tv networks have agreed to give exposure to blizzard with the logo, and the license fee will be given to Blizzard each year, the fee is unspecified at this time.
Looks like OGN/MBC gave in, makes me sad Should have just ignored Blizzard...
Hmmm, didn't know my sarcastic response would stir things up that badly :O
Sorry about that.
But no, I don't hate SC2. I'm just skeptical about the entire thing.
Also: It's pretty clear Blizzard was the one who gave up -- there were rumors about how Blizzard initiated contact with KeSPA to act as a mediator to talk to broadcasting stations. Don't think KeSPA gave up anything. If you don't think other wise... then you're free to believe whatever you want but given the articles that have been out I'm 99.9% confident my story is correct.
But until we get something official (which we will soon), there's nothing for certain.
How is showing a Blizzard logo caving in? The dispute had very serious matters at hand that threatened the viability of esports. Yet you focus on logos which are just formality. It seems that right now maybe they will pay a bit more than before and show Blizzard logos. What else changed? Are the players under contract with Blizzard? Does Blizzard get access to the players? Does Blizzard get to dictate what will be broadcasted when? Does Blizzard get veto power over all SC issues inside Kespa? Does Blizzard get to audit the finances of Kespa and all teams?
The whole issue of intellectual property and trying to shut down SC BW, Blizzard abandoned.
On May 09 2011 21:22 zul wrote: Both tv networks have agreed to give exposure to blizzard with the logo, and the license fee will be given to Blizzard each year, the fee is unspecified at this time.
Looks like OGN/MBC gave in, makes me sad Should have just ignored Blizzard...
OGN and MBC were willing to pay a license fee but the disagreements were about the actual frequency/amount of the fee as well as some other conditions that Blizzard wanted.
Interesting article, I followed the discussion as it moved from SC2 forums to BW forums.
As I see it, the news has no relation to SC2 whatsoever, except the possibility that KeSPA will incite less negative press about it, and will definitely benefit Broodwar as Sponsors can now support it without having to worry about a a pending court case regarding the broadcasting.
I really think most BW enthusiasts don't think negatively about SC2, they just don't care for it, so having it and its fans barge in on BW related issues like some newly born spoiled child is annoying at times.
On May 10 2011 02:46 syllogism wrote: Kespa gave up, actually
Where does it say Kespa and OGN/MBC stop doing SC BW?
Things will go back to how they used to be before SC2. Blizzard will again accept the standard license fee and give up on this concept that they have intellectual property over the esports matches the players produce.
Next step will be Blizzard stopping their huge funds to Gomtv and handing over SC2 to Kespa/OGN/MBC. Only then we will learn what is the true potential of SC2 to compete with SC BW.
I thank Blizzard for being so incompetent and extending the life of SC BW for another few years because of this silly legal argument then now have abandoned.
Blizzard got exactly what they wanted. The notion that blizzard wanted to kill BW was fiction.
On May 10 2011 02:46 syllogism wrote: Kespa gave up, actually
Where does it say Kespa and OGN/MBC stop doing SC BW?
Things will go back to how they used to be before SC2. Blizzard will again accept the standard license fee and give up on this concept that they have intellectual property over the esports matches the players produce.
Next step will be Blizzard stopping their huge funds to Gomtv and handing over SC2 to Kespa/OGN/MBC. Only then we will learn what is the true potential of SC2 to compete with SC BW.
I thank Blizzard for being so incompetent and extending the life of SC BW for another few years because of this silly legal argument then now have abandoned.
Blizzard got exactly what they wanted. The notion that blizzard wanted to kill BW was fiction.
Blizzard got far from exactly what they wanted, considering they wanted 100% rights.
On May 10 2011 02:46 syllogism wrote: Kespa gave up, actually
Where does it say Kespa and OGN/MBC stop doing SC BW?
Things will go back to how they used to be before SC2. Blizzard will again accept the standard license fee and give up on this concept that they have intellectual property over the esports matches the players produce.
Next step will be Blizzard stopping their huge funds to Gomtv and handing over SC2 to Kespa/OGN/MBC. Only then we will learn what is the true potential of SC2 to compete with SC BW.
I thank Blizzard for being so incompetent and extending the life of SC BW for another few years because of this silly legal argument then now have abandoned.
Blizzard got exactly what they wanted. The notion that blizzard wanted to kill BW was fiction.
How would you know whether they got exactly what they wanted when you don't even know the details of their settlement. lol
On May 10 2011 02:46 syllogism wrote: Kespa gave up, actually
Where does it say Kespa and OGN/MBC stop doing SC BW?
Things will go back to how they used to be before SC2. Blizzard will again accept the standard license fee and give up on this concept that they have intellectual property over the esports matches the players produce.
Next step will be Blizzard stopping their huge funds to Gomtv and handing over SC2 to Kespa/OGN/MBC. Only then we will learn what is the true potential of SC2 to compete with SC BW.
I thank Blizzard for being so incompetent and extending the life of SC BW for another few years because of this silly legal argument then now have abandoned.
Blizzard got exactly what they wanted. The notion that blizzard wanted to kill BW was fiction.
Blizzard got far from exactly what they wanted, considering they wanted 100% rights.
They did get Kespa/OGN/MBC to recognize the rights as the article clearly states they agreed to pay a licensing fee every year
On May 09 2011 21:22 zul wrote: Both tv networks have agreed to give exposure to blizzard with the logo, and the license fee will be given to Blizzard each year, the fee is unspecified at this time.
Looks like OGN/MBC gave in, makes me sad Should have just ignored Blizzard...
OGN and MBC were willing to pay a license fee but the disagreements were about the actual frequency/amount of the fee as well as some other conditions that Blizzard wanted.
Pretty sure they didn't have to put the Blizzard logo on the things before, right? And about the fee, did they pay one in the last years? And about SC2, I just hope they won't have to broadcast/advertise it.
Well we know Blizzard didn't get a lot for sure because Kespa/OGN/MBC would never accept it because it would mean the end to the sustainability of their business.
Gomtv right now isn't sustainable either. Do we know for sure how long Blizzard has agreed to give money to Gomtv to fund their operation? I think a reason why gomtv was so angry and frustrated is because they invested a lot to try to get their SC BW tournament going and when it didn't take off they asked Blizzard for help. Blizzard then used Gomtv as a weapon against Kespa/OGN/MBC. They in response no longer gave a way for free their players.
Gomtv/Gretech gambled a lot and mostly lost. Will their business be profitable without Blizzard funds? I think that without Blizzard funds, SC2 on an online stream in Korea is not viable. In the end Kespa/OGN/MBC wll do SC2 too. Or there will be no SC2 whatsoever in Korea.
On May 10 2011 02:59 syllogism wrote: They did get Kespa/OGN/MBC to recognize the rights as the article clearly states they agreed to pay a licensing fee every year
They already paid a fee before SC2 was announced. Just like they pay a fee to play the music they play before matches. There are fixed fees for these things. Receiving royalties and owning the IP to the whole esports show are different things.
On May 09 2011 21:22 zul wrote: Both tv networks have agreed to give exposure to blizzard with the logo, and the license fee will be given to Blizzard each year, the fee is unspecified at this time.
Looks like OGN/MBC gave in, makes me sad Should have just ignored Blizzard...
OGN and MBC were willing to pay a license fee but the disagreements were about the actual frequency/amount of the fee as well as some other conditions that Blizzard wanted.
Pretty sure they didn't have to put the Blizzard logo on the things before, right? And about the fee, did they pay one in the last years? And about SC2, I just hope they won't have to broadcast/advertise it.
that is what worries me the most. I fear the tyrant blizzard will enforce something stupid like that and try and kill bw from the groud up.
by forcing sc2 on tv and such, they are trying to kill bw, there is no doubt about that, they want the money, they are greedy spineless bastards. They will kill a huge esport to support a esport they are funding.
look at nasl and gsl, both are heavily sponsored by blizzard, and blizzard has their hand in the pies of many top sc2 leagues. That is not the case with bw, and it allowed bw to flourish in korea.
They want bw dead, I can only hope KeSPA will not involve sc2 in any of its activties, and also prevents sc2 from airing.
the good thing though, is that kespa owns the players (by contract) so in that respect. if ogn or mbc decided to air sc2, kespa could pull the plug on all bw broadcasting for both networks. which would make ogn and mbc back off of sc2. which is good news.
On May 10 2011 02:46 syllogism wrote: Kespa gave up, actually
Where does it say Kespa and OGN/MBC stop doing SC BW?
Things will go back to how they used to be before SC2. Blizzard will again accept the standard license fee and give up on this concept that they have intellectual property over the esports matches the players produce.
Next step will be Blizzard stopping their huge funds to Gomtv and handing over SC2 to Kespa/OGN/MBC. Only then we will learn what is the true potential of SC2 to compete with SC BW.
I thank Blizzard for being so incompetent and extending the life of SC BW for another few years because of this silly legal argument then now have abandoned.
Blizzard got exactly what they wanted. The notion that blizzard wanted to kill BW was fiction.
Blizzard got far from exactly what they wanted, considering they wanted 100% rights.
I think it's a weird discussion to have when we don't even know the content they agreed on and how much they're actually paying blizzard. Actually it's not even confirmed yet so who knows maybe it's not even true or it gets cancelled on a detail .
Good grief, it's finally over is it? I pray that both scenes can flourish side by side and provide ample entertainment for their respective viewers. In the end, that's all we want isn't it?
On May 10 2011 02:46 syllogism wrote: Kespa gave up, actually
Where does it say Kespa and OGN/MBC stop doing SC BW?
Things will go back to how they used to be before SC2. Blizzard will again accept the standard license fee and give up on this concept that they have intellectual property over the esports matches the players produce.
Next step will be Blizzard stopping their huge funds to Gomtv and handing over SC2 to Kespa/OGN/MBC. Only then we will learn what is the true potential of SC2 to compete with SC BW.
I thank Blizzard for being so incompetent and extending the life of SC BW for another few years because of this silly legal argument then now have abandoned.
Blizzard got exactly what they wanted. The notion that blizzard wanted to kill BW was fiction.
Blizzard got far from exactly what they wanted, considering they wanted 100% rights.
They didnt want rights. If they wanted rights they'd never have offered rights for money in the first place. They offered rights in return for money, and unless you have any numbers on exactly how much money Blizz got, theres no way to interpret who "caved in". If Blizz got anywhere near their initial demand, they're sure as hell gonna walk away from this whole agreement with a smile on their face.
And really, you seem to be awfully sure about everything (99% sure to be exact) considering you have the same amount of info (the OP) as the rest of us. Care to explain what makes you so sure? As far as I can tell, Blizz could have got practically everything they asked for, or practically nothing. The OP doesnt reveal more.
On May 10 2011 02:59 syllogism wrote: They did get Kespa/OGN/MBC to recognize the rights as the article clearly states they agreed to pay a licensing fee every year
They already paid a fee before SC2 was announced. Just like they pay a fee to play the music they play before matches. There are fixed fees for these things. Receiving royalties and owning the IP to the whole esports show are different things.
We don't know the exact details of the settlement, but the details we do know indicate they very much agreed to recognize blizzard's rights encompass "esports". This sounds like a standard IP licensing deal and thus it recognizes the rights And no, there are no fixed fees
This finally is over and the fear/burden of shutting down succesful proleague/teams is no longer threat. Also being agreement and not some court ruling is pretty much awesome
On May 10 2011 02:46 syllogism wrote: Kespa gave up, actually
Where does it say Kespa and OGN/MBC stop doing SC BW?
Things will go back to how they used to be before SC2. Blizzard will again accept the standard license fee and give up on this concept that they have intellectual property over the esports matches the players produce.
Next step will be Blizzard stopping their huge funds to Gomtv and handing over SC2 to Kespa/OGN/MBC. Only then we will learn what is the true potential of SC2 to compete with SC BW.
I thank Blizzard for being so incompetent and extending the life of SC BW for another few years because of this silly legal argument then now have abandoned.
Blizzard got exactly what they wanted. The notion that blizzard wanted to kill BW was fiction.
Blizzard got far from exactly what they wanted, considering they wanted 100% rights.
They didnt want rights. If they wanted rights they'd never have offered rights for money in the first place. They offered rights in return for money, and unless you have any numbers on exactly how much money Blizz got, theres no way to interpret who "caved in". If Blizz got anywhere near their initial demand, they're sure as hell gonna walk away from this whole agreement with a smile on their face.
And really, you seem to be awfully sure about everything (99% sure to be exact) considering you have the same amount of info (the OP) as the rest of us. Care to explain what makes you so sure? As far as I can tell, Blizz could have got practically everything they asked for, or practically nothing. The OP doesnt reveal more.
WELL... if you go look up all the posts and translations i've did on the subject maybe you'll realize I'm much more informed about this subject than you or what is revealed in the OP lol
Blizzard did not want money and they have cited this many many many many times.
I never watched any sc2 matches, but according to one of my friends who follows the scene closely, sc2 is too immature right now to be played professionally because there is too much rock-paper-scissor in builds. Hopefully, two expansions later and we will have a game that is more complex and dynamic.
On May 10 2011 02:46 syllogism wrote: Kespa gave up, actually
Where does it say Kespa and OGN/MBC stop doing SC BW?
Things will go back to how they used to be before SC2. Blizzard will again accept the standard license fee and give up on this concept that they have intellectual property over the esports matches the players produce.
Next step will be Blizzard stopping their huge funds to Gomtv and handing over SC2 to Kespa/OGN/MBC. Only then we will learn what is the true potential of SC2 to compete with SC BW.
I thank Blizzard for being so incompetent and extending the life of SC BW for another few years because of this silly legal argument then now have abandoned.
Blizzard got exactly what they wanted. The notion that blizzard wanted to kill BW was fiction.
Blizzard got far from exactly what they wanted, considering they wanted 100% rights.
They didnt want rights. If they wanted rights they'd never have offered rights for money in the first place. They offered rights in return for money, and unless you have any numbers on exactly how much money Blizz got, theres no way to interpret who "caved in". If Blizz got anywhere near their initial demand, they're sure as hell gonna walk away from this whole agreement with a smile on their face.
And really, you seem to be awfully sure about everything (99% sure to be exact) considering you have the same amount of info (the OP) as the rest of us. Care to explain what makes you so sure? As far as I can tell, Blizz could have got practically everything they asked for, or practically nothing. The OP doesnt reveal more.
WELL... if you go look up all the posts and translations i've did on the subject maybe you'll realize I'm much more informed about this subject than you or what is revealed in the OP lol
Blizzard did not want money and they have cited this many many many many times.
Bah, I'll bite.
First, I've read whats been posted on TL and a little bit more about the issue. Does that qualify as worthy of talking to you? Even if you were much more well-read on the subject (which im well aware of is quite a possibility), taking the "i know more than you lol therefore i dont need to reply to you lol"-route is pretty uncool and not a road any serious dicussion should take. If you're willing to change i'd be happy about it, otherwise feel free to get the last word and i'll leave the thread.
Second, you stated yourself Blizzard wants money. Heres a little something from one of your theads:
The last argument has to do with the negotiation attitudes. Both broadcasting stations have mentioned before that Blizzard is demanding things that goes beyond their rights. They pointed out that Blizzard has asked for not just for royalties, but also for fees to run tournaments and broadcasting fees. Furthermore, Blizzard wants to supervise broadcasts and even demands the right to audit the broadcasting stations.
How is "royalties" and "fees" not money? And the OP doesnt reveal how much of those royalties or fees Blizz would get, hence we cant really draw any conclusion about it.
@Kreb, It was (is) never about money, Blizzard cant get that much money from an old game, It is not even its business, the real thing about this dispute was having the total control and dictate the pace of e-sports in Korea (controlling what will be the new game that marks the trend; $$$$$)
On May 10 2011 02:46 syllogism wrote: Kespa gave up, actually
Where does it say Kespa and OGN/MBC stop doing SC BW?
Things will go back to how they used to be before SC2. Blizzard will again accept the standard license fee and give up on this concept that they have intellectual property over the esports matches the players produce.
Next step will be Blizzard stopping their huge funds to Gomtv and handing over SC2 to Kespa/OGN/MBC. Only then we will learn what is the true potential of SC2 to compete with SC BW.
I thank Blizzard for being so incompetent and extending the life of SC BW for another few years because of this silly legal argument then now have abandoned.
Blizzard got exactly what they wanted. The notion that blizzard wanted to kill BW was fiction.
Blizzard got far from exactly what they wanted, considering they wanted 100% rights.
They didnt want rights. If they wanted rights they'd never have offered rights for money in the first place. They offered rights in return for money, and unless you have any numbers on exactly how much money Blizz got, theres no way to interpret who "caved in". If Blizz got anywhere near their initial demand, they're sure as hell gonna walk away from this whole agreement with a smile on their face.
And really, you seem to be awfully sure about everything (99% sure to be exact) considering you have the same amount of info (the OP) as the rest of us. Care to explain what makes you so sure? As far as I can tell, Blizz could have got practically everything they asked for, or practically nothing. The OP doesnt reveal more.
Milkis I think answered accurately, but ya, never was about the money. The fees requested were kinda a joke, for both parties, but over the last few years it was often brought up, mostly by KeSPA (stating they couldn't afford them) to get player support.
The real major points of contention were the 1yr renewable contracts for each tournament and Acknowledging Blizzards IP rights in the matter.
Those two points kept them pretty much in a deadlock for quite some time. Obviously the imminent court date pushed for some breakthroughs. We know that the second point got fully conceeded which just leaves the terms of the deal. That second point is worth a lot of money to Blizzard because it effectively gags KeSPA from commenting on other Blizzard products like GOM or HotS. Blizzard also won't look like the bad guys that killed Proleague. So who knows, maybe Blizzard threw a bone in the form of a good deal so they could keep running the various BW leagues.
Either way, we (the viewers) all win. Feel free to interpret the news however you want.
So how long does this agreement last? They pay annual licensing fees, but does this mean Blizzard doesn't need to approve every individual tournament that occurs? If this deal is Broodwar only, what path does OGN/MBC have to transition to SC2 in the future?
On May 09 2011 22:15 Krehlmar wrote: No offence but in due time Korea will not be the e-gaming capital of the world, my thoughts is just that it has way to many stubborn BW fans/plaers that continue to make SC2 sound like it's "off" in Korea, whilst the rest of the world has realised that SC2 is the chance to make Esports big and thus it's gaining the support it is.
no offence but you cant fault people for sticking with a better game. last i heard, broodwar is still alot more popular in korea than sc2 so its not really anyone being stubborn, its more like people being honest?
i dont care if red alert 2 became a global e sport with hundreds of teams and billions of dollars, id still watch brood war
People keep saying broodwar is a lot more popular but I've never seen people post where they get their sources (not that I've looked too much though). How and where do I find which games are more popular?
Here's a rough way of estimating.
TSL gets 50K viewers. Given that they have 50K viewers, let's say not everyone can watch it at the same time. I'll be generous, and say that there are 10x the number of people who can't catch it live, so 50K * 10x = 500K SC2 "esports" fans.
BW TV stations still gets like 0.7% ratings in Korea or something, much higher for bigger games (SKT vs KT matches regularly top ratings), and most of the scene is based on online watching. Given Korea's population of 40 mil that's still easily like 400K.
I want to add:
Looking at the top SC video site(plu) in China, a top BW match has roughly 4xtimes more views than a top SC2 match. This figure is up-to-date.
On May 10 2011 02:46 syllogism wrote: Kespa gave up, actually
Where does it say Kespa and OGN/MBC stop doing SC BW?
Things will go back to how they used to be before SC2. Blizzard will again accept the standard license fee and give up on this concept that they have intellectual property over the esports matches the players produce.
Next step will be Blizzard stopping their huge funds to Gomtv and handing over SC2 to Kespa/OGN/MBC. Only then we will learn what is the true potential of SC2 to compete with SC BW.
I thank Blizzard for being so incompetent and extending the life of SC BW for another few years because of this silly legal argument then now have abandoned.
Blizzard got exactly what they wanted. The notion that blizzard wanted to kill BW was fiction.
Blizzard got far from exactly what they wanted, considering they wanted 100% rights.
They didnt want rights. If they wanted rights they'd never have offered rights for money in the first place. They offered rights in return for money, and unless you have any numbers on exactly how much money Blizz got, theres no way to interpret who "caved in". If Blizz got anywhere near their initial demand, they're sure as hell gonna walk away from this whole agreement with a smile on their face.
And really, you seem to be awfully sure about everything (99% sure to be exact) considering you have the same amount of info (the OP) as the rest of us. Care to explain what makes you so sure? As far as I can tell, Blizz could have got practically everything they asked for, or practically nothing. The OP doesnt reveal more.
Milkis I think answered accurately, but ya, never was about the money. The fees requested were kinda a joke, for both parties, but over the last few years it was often brought up, mostly by KeSPA (stating they couldn't afford them) to get player support.
The real major points of contention were the 1yr renewable contracts for each tournament and Acknowledging Blizzards IP rights in the matter.
Those two points kept them pretty much in a deadlock for quite some time. Obviously the imminent court date pushed for some breakthroughs. We know that the second point got fully conceeded which just leaves the terms of the deal. That second point is worth a lot of money to Blizzard because it effectively gags KeSPA from commenting on other Blizzard products like GOM or HotS. Blizzard also won't look like the bad guys that killed Proleague. So who knows, maybe Blizzard threw a bone in the form of a good deal so they could keep running the various BW leagues.
Either way, we (the viewers) all win. Feel free to interpret the news however you want.
That was a much more informative post at least. Thanks.
On May 10 2011 02:46 syllogism wrote: Kespa gave up, actually
Where does it say Kespa and OGN/MBC stop doing SC BW?
Things will go back to how they used to be before SC2. Blizzard will again accept the standard license fee and give up on this concept that they have intellectual property over the esports matches the players produce.
Next step will be Blizzard stopping their huge funds to Gomtv and handing over SC2 to Kespa/OGN/MBC. Only then we will learn what is the true potential of SC2 to compete with SC BW.
I thank Blizzard for being so incompetent and extending the life of SC BW for another few years because of this silly legal argument then now have abandoned.
Blizzard got exactly what they wanted. The notion that blizzard wanted to kill BW was fiction.
Blizzard got far from exactly what they wanted, considering they wanted 100% rights.
They didnt want rights. If they wanted rights they'd never have offered rights for money in the first place. They offered rights in return for money, and unless you have any numbers on exactly how much money Blizz got, theres no way to interpret who "caved in". If Blizz got anywhere near their initial demand, they're sure as hell gonna walk away from this whole agreement with a smile on their face.
And really, you seem to be awfully sure about everything (99% sure to be exact) considering you have the same amount of info (the OP) as the rest of us. Care to explain what makes you so sure? As far as I can tell, Blizz could have got practically everything they asked for, or practically nothing. The OP doesnt reveal more.
WELL... if you go look up all the posts and translations i've did on the subject maybe you'll realize I'm much more informed about this subject than you or what is revealed in the OP lol
Blizzard did not want money and they have cited this many many many many times.
Bah, I'll bite.
First, I've read whats been posted on TL and a little bit more about the issue. Does that qualify as worthy of talking to you? Even if you were much more well-read on the subject (which im well aware of is quite a possibility), taking the "i know more than you lol therefore i dont need to reply to you lol"-route is pretty uncool and not a road any serious dicussion should take. If you're willing to change i'd be happy about it, otherwise feel free to get the last word and i'll leave the thread.
Second, you stated yourself Blizzard wants money. Heres a little something from one of your theads:
The last argument has to do with the negotiation attitudes. Both broadcasting stations have mentioned before that Blizzard is demanding things that goes beyond their rights. They pointed out that Blizzard has asked for not just for royalties, but also for fees to run tournaments and broadcasting fees. Furthermore, Blizzard wants to supervise broadcasts and even demands the right to audit the broadcasting stations.
How is "royalties" and "fees" not money? And the OP doesnt reveal how much of those royalties or fees Blizz would get, hence we cant really draw any conclusion about it.
- It is said Blizzard wants at least 700,000,000 won from the Korean market. Is that true? And why is this IP rights problem only in South Korea?
* The licensing fee is there to say that if they wish to use our content, they need to be capable of producing high quality content. When problems relating to intellectual rights is dealt with, the fee can be adjusted as needed. GomTV seems to have requested a fair amount as well. MBCGame and OGN are both ignoring our intellectual rights as well as not participating properly in the negotiations. Once the IP rights problem is dealt with, GomTV and Blizzard can adjust the licensing fee. This is not for the profits, but to protect our IP rights. To operate a business, it is important, as the holder of the IP, to get our IP rights protected.
All markets, including South Korea, request the rights to use our content. Of course, we cannot state exactly how much they needed to pay, but other markets do also pay as well. China and Taiwan came to us first, to get the license needed. We will finalize the licensing for broadcasting as well. It is not right to say that China has different situation than South Korea. This is same anywhere else including Europe.
On May 10 2011 04:19 Barrin wrote: I am sincerely disappointed that there is so much animosity between the BW community and the SC2 community. I personally love both games, and even though I don't watch BW much anymore I still want both communities to thrive in harmony (which is why I am satisfied with this news). I really feel like the fans' attitudes are the biggest reason why they can't coexist. A shame really.
Honestly, if Blizzard fixes the game in the next two expansions, you'll see almost all that animosity disappear. Most of the SC2 hate comes from the BW camp because we want it to be a worthy successor- not just a watered down RTS riding on the coattails of BW, which IMO is all it is right now.
Didn't Blizzard essentially want to perform a de facto takeover of all Brood War esport-related operations? If I remember right they demanded the right to audit and veto OGN/MBC operations in addition to the royalties and acknowledgment of rights. And yeah poor GOM, they got used and then thrown away if this is all true.
On May 09 2011 23:39 Captain Peabody wrote: AMAZING news, if this is true. I'll be keeping my fingers crossed until we have official confirmation, though.
BW vs SC2 debates just make me angry. Soooooo much ignorance on both sides.
BW is definitely more popular in Korea than SC2 at the moment, though SC2 seems to have a very healthy niche scene there and is growing rapidly. BW requires lots of skill, is much more developed as an e-sport than SC2 at the moment, and is a good game. SC2 requires lots of skill, is developing at an exponential rate, and is a good game. So sayeth we all.
The best response in this thread. Sums up the whole thing.
On May 09 2011 23:39 Captain Peabody wrote: AMAZING news, if this is true. I'll be keeping my fingers crossed until we have official confirmation, though.
BW vs SC2 debates just make me angry. Soooooo much ignorance on both sides.
BW is definitely more popular in Korea than SC2 at the moment, though SC2 seems to have a very healthy niche scene there and is growing rapidly. BW requires lots of skill, is much more developed as an e-sport than SC2 at the moment, and is a good game. SC2 requires lots of skill, is developing at an exponential rate, and is a good game. So sayeth we all.
The best response in this thread. Sums up the whole thing.
Agreed but he forgot to add that neither Blizzard nor Kespa are actually from the fourth circle of hell.
Hmmm... upper GOMTV must be shitting their pants right now. They must have known that Blizz basically used them as a tool during the kespa/blizz fight. Now that the fight is over, there is no need to keep paying the thugs?
Once MBC and OGN starts their own SC2 stuff, I don't see how GOMTV's SC2 will survive. Yeah I know GOMTV still have exclusive rights to SC2, but you got to agree that Blizz is not entirely happy with the GOMTV GSL results.
edit: I hope that one of the reason why Blizz conceded is because they want the true TOP sc players to voice their opinion so we can have a better SC2.
On May 09 2011 23:39 Captain Peabody wrote: AMAZING news, if this is true. I'll be keeping my fingers crossed until we have official confirmation, though.
BW vs SC2 debates just make me angry. Soooooo much ignorance on both sides.
BW is definitely more popular in Korea than SC2 at the moment, though SC2 seems to have a very healthy niche scene there and is growing rapidly. BW requires lots of skill, is much more developed as an e-sport than SC2 at the moment, and is a good game. SC2 requires lots of skill, is developing at an exponential rate, and is a good game. So sayeth we all.
The best response in this thread. Sums up the whole thing.
Signed. The boards could use more amicable posts and solutions vs. blind vitriol and arguments here's hopin KeSPA will allow SC2 action on the rest of the korean networks.
On May 10 2011 04:31 aDd3z wrote: Starcraft 2 OSL and MSL plox thx
I'm curious what this mean for Gom's exclusive rights to SC2. Will they continue to be the only SC2 league in Korea or will OGN or MBC test the waters with their own SC2 content in the future?
It kind of opens up the doors, and I wonder if it means they have come to the realization that Gom is not capable of getting SC2 out there in Korea by themselves.
A solidified future for the BW scene is absolutely great news. My hope to see FlaSh/Jaedong get a diamond mouse is still in the running!
A unified ESPORTS scene is also the best bet of us seeing our favorite games rise in popularity along with our favorite community website (<3). While KeSPA and Blizzard are probably still far away from having amicable relations, this is certainly a step forward.
News like this make me overly optimistic, not that I mind one bit. Perhaps we can even see a resurrection of the Liquid` Broodwar team in the future? Who knows?
On May 10 2011 04:19 Barrin wrote: I am sincerely disappointed that there is so much animosity between the BW community and the SC2 community. I personally love both games, and even though I don't watch BW much anymore I still want both communities to thrive in harmony (which is why I am satisfied with this news). I really feel like the fans' attitudes are the biggest reason why they can't coexist. A shame really.
Honestly, if Blizzard fixes the game in the next two expansions, you'll see almost all that animosity disappear. Most of the SC2 hate comes from the BW camp because we want it to be a worthy successor- not just a watered down RTS riding on the coattails of BW, which IMO is all it is right now.
(It's been a few hours)
Nah, unfortunately. If SC2 becomes too much like BW, then there's redundancy, and either SC2 will fail as an inferior clone or BW will fail as a game that's surpassed (the first option is much more likely, ofc).
Best result is that SC2 becomes fun in ways BW isn't and doesn't do things BW does well, and the two games are like hockey and basketball. Kind of similar, but really different games. And then there'll still be Brood War fans saying that SC2 doesn't require you to be able to ice skate and SC2 fans'll say the net's bigger, and forum posters will say the metaphor's running away from me.
Right now there's a consensus that BW is the better game (us SC2 fans think our game is good, and evolving very fast, and BW fans think it sucks and anyone who plays it deserves public mockery and beatings). When SC2 vs BW games are actually about which game is currently better, as opposed to which game will be better in 5 years, e-sports will be in a good place.
On May 09 2011 23:39 Captain Peabody wrote: AMAZING news, if this is true. I'll be keeping my fingers crossed until we have official confirmation, though.
BW vs SC2 debates just make me angry. Soooooo much ignorance on both sides.
BW is definitely more popular in Korea than SC2 at the moment, though SC2 seems to have a very healthy niche scene there and is growing rapidly. BW requires lots of skill, is much more developed as an e-sport than SC2 at the moment, and is a good game. SC2 requires lots of skill, is developing at an exponential rate, and is a good game. So sayeth we all.
The best response in this thread. Sums up the whole thing.
Sorry guys I'm dumb please explain what will happen?
The dispute over the intellectual property rights surfaced when Blizzard gave GOMTV the exclusive rights over starcraft 1 and 2. The agreement is believed to have arrived due to starcraft2’s failure to be embraced by the Korean fans. We can certainly hope that the Korean e-sports looks brighter than ever!"
I don't get the "failure to be embraced" part. So Blizz and the two TV channels agreed so that they can promote/air Starcraft 2??? IF SO THEN OMG NICE
Edit:
Hey now, stop pointing fingers at GOM... we all know the conflicts GOM/Blizzard had with Kespa/MBC/OGN , so don't blame GOM for "failing". They did well but the competition of an already established eSport on TV kept SC2 from rising.
The dispute over the intellectual property rights surfaced when Blizzard gave GOMTV the exclusive rights over starcraft 1 and 2. The agreement is believed to have arrived due to starcraft2’s failure to be embraced by the Korean fans. We can certainly hope that the Korean e-sports looks brighter than ever!"
I don't get the "failure to be embraced" part. So Blizz and the two TV channels agreed so that they can promote/air Starcraft 2??? IF SO THEN OMG NICE
Edit:
Hey now, stop pointing fingers at GOM... we all know the conflicts GOM/Blizzard had with Kespa/MBC/OGN , so don't blame GOM for "failing". They did well but the competition of an already established eSport on TV kept SC2 from rising.
It's a very biased translation. SC2 is no failure in Korea at all, but is not as big as BW. This will most likely help SC2 on the way though while not damaging the BW scene.
EPT
. Good thing though the more money blizzard gets for free the less annoying will their partners be. (the lawyers must have cost a fortune though, but luckily no one cares about that).
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