|
On January 20 2011 03:33 goiflin wrote:Show nested quote +Until this thing is released to the public so we can test it, there's really no way of calling it "good" or "intelligent" in any way. Sounds just like pre-programmed responses to stimuli. Not really a "thinking" process going on. There's two situations here. One: you read the article, but it all flew over your head. Two: you didn't read the article. It has nothing to do with being good. I'm sure any kespa sanctioned pro could stomp it into the ground. That's not the point. It's an AI for a game that teaches itself how to deal with situations. It's also not just going for mutas ASAP. It gauges the opponents BO, decides wether or not there's going to be an early push, and deals with the situation accordingly. While this is basic for a player, it's something that has ALWAYS plagued AI's, in any game. It's an intresting step forward..
There's 2 situations here: one, you read my response and it all flew over your head (more likely), or two, you didn't read my response or just don't understand what any of the concepts I'm talking about were. It has everything to do with being "good" because they're claiming it provides challenge for good Starcraft players. A simple algorithm mixed with maphack that would provide input to whether or not a certain amount of units are being made or whether a certain amount of production structures have been made before a certain time. I majored in Computer Sciences, I can see exactly how this thing works on a level the vast majority of people can't; apparently including you. Bottom line, don't speak on things you know nothing about.
You might want to read the article, it's pretty interesting how they figured out gas steal, ovie scouting, rush defense etc.
The AI might only be able to do mass muta, but it has sickkkkk muta micro.
I did. I can see the big picture rather than get caught up in all the details.
And btw I don't think that a lot of thinking process is going on while a hardcore player plays. You don't really have that much time to think while playing BW.
Considering I know KaL, Jaedong, and FlaSh personally as well as a large amount of B-team semi-pros, I'm pretty sure they'd be insulted by this blatantly misinformed undercutting of their strategic abilities.
|
On January 20 2011 03:40 Trowabarton756 wrote:
=_= did i just read that right? Dude tried to use mass goliaths to kill off mutas??? i mean wouldn't mm or valks or mm+valks or...irridate...or like a thousand other ideas be far more useful? Iunno I feel as if this "top 16 europe" guy isn't all he's cracked up to be.
I gathered that he's no active pro anymore, they just found somebody who knows how to play RTS.
I have no doubt that a korean A-teamer would run the overmind bot over ten out of ten times.
|
if u check the computer's apm , i can't recall where i saw it it's lie3,4 k , so........... u only need to implement some rushe's and chees
p.s as far as i know kasparow beat before that day a few times the computer , and they always the computer smarter and better, and after he lost , he comed back and beat the computer and they made alot of ties
|
Would overmind respond to valkonic correctly? Because I could see them getting absolutely wrecked by that 
|
On January 20 2011 03:40 Trowabarton756 wrote:
=_= did i just read that right? Dude tried to use mass goliaths to kill off mutas??? i mean wouldn't mm or valks or mm+valks or...irridate...or like a thousand other ideas be far more useful? Iunno I feel as if this "top 16 europe" guy isn't all he's cracked up to be.
irridate? lol
|
I still don't get it ? the last time I check (from the 2010 AI competition thread) the bot cannot even beat a high D / D+ on iCCup, how the hell can it beat a WCG competitor now ? And who is that WCG competitor guy ?
In fact if those new bots are really good I will try to install the broodwarAPI and try them, since I'm really bored with the AIs from BWAI.
|
On January 20 2011 03:40 Diminotoor wrote:
A simple algorithm mixed with maphack that would provide input to whether or not a certain amount of units are being made or whether a certain amount of production structures have been made before a certain time.
it doesn't have maphack.. it has to scout. and it does. but never mind..
|
On January 20 2011 03:45 freelander wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2011 03:40 Trowabarton756 wrote:
=_= did i just read that right? Dude tried to use mass goliaths to kill off mutas??? i mean wouldn't mm or valks or mm+valks or...irridate...or like a thousand other ideas be far more useful? Iunno I feel as if this "top 16 europe" guy isn't all he's cracked up to be. irridate? lol
....whats wrong with irridate for mutas??? I see you don't play terran...
|
So, uh, where's the VOD of the computer beating the human? All I see are a bunch of demonstration videos -.-
|
Russian Federation327 Posts
Irradiate and valks are useless coz AI doesn't stack muta.
That is why this AI will be terribad as practice partner. It does things in its special way (mostly APM abuse), so you will never learn how to fight against real players. To beat this AI you need to utilize new strats and BOs which will be good against AI, not humans.
Personally I don't see any points in making AI which doesn't resemble human play.
|
On January 20 2011 03:52 Trowabarton756 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2011 03:45 freelander wrote:On January 20 2011 03:40 Trowabarton756 wrote:
=_= did i just read that right? Dude tried to use mass goliaths to kill off mutas??? i mean wouldn't mm or valks or mm+valks or...irridate...or like a thousand other ideas be far more useful? Iunno I feel as if this "top 16 europe" guy isn't all he's cracked up to be. irridate? lol ....whats wrong with irridate for mutas??? I see you don't play terran...
I think he means the computer can likely query which mutalisk has been irradiated and separate it way faster than a human. Also this AI doesn't group its mutalisks in a stack of 11 like a human does.
Anyways like I posted in the last topic about this AI, the video of the human WCG player showed he didn't know any modern builds and was flat out bad. I wouldn't be surprised if the regular AI beat him once in a while.
|
On January 20 2011 03:45 seRapH wrote:Would overmind respond to valkonic correctly? Because I could see them getting absolutely wrecked by that
This is a smart response, I pose the same question.
irridate? lol
If that man's questions didn't spark anything for your debate column other than this pointless retort, you don't belong in this conversation.
it doesn't have maphack.. it has to scout. and it does. but never mind..
Ok so make it scout and then what it sees, it adds to its databank and takes things like production structures and... you know what nevermind, you obviously have no idea what you're talking about and have no place in intelligent conversation.
...whats wrong with irridate for mutas??? I see you don't play terran...
I don't think he plays Starcraft at all.
|
On January 20 2011 03:49 kamikami wrote:
I still don't get it ? the last time I check (from the 2010 AI competition thread) the bot cannot even beat a high D / D+ on iCCup, how the hell can it beat a WCG competitor now ? And who is that WCG competitor guy ?
In fact if those new bots are really good I will try to install the broodwarAPI and try them, since I'm really bored with the AIs from BWAI.
Lol I think we're all forgetting Zziim (Invader?)
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Zim
|
You guys are right: A team of multiple PhDs from a major university spent a year on a project and it's "shitty".
The hubris of some of you guys...
|
On January 20 2011 03:52 Trowabarton756 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2011 03:45 freelander wrote:On January 20 2011 03:40 Trowabarton756 wrote:
=_= did i just read that right? Dude tried to use mass goliaths to kill off mutas??? i mean wouldn't mm or valks or mm+valks or...irridate...or like a thousand other ideas be far more useful? Iunno I feel as if this "top 16 europe" guy isn't all he's cracked up to be. irridate? lol ....whats wrong with irridate for mutas??? I see you don't play terran...
It insta splits the muta. Irradiate was good because it would do alot of damage to muta as you worked to remove the damaged one. This AI just takes out the damage one immediately and isn't even that clumped usually in the first place. Spending money on vessels to kill one muta every 75 energy just wouldn't be worth it I don't think.
Ok so make it scout and then what it sees, it adds to its databank and takes things like production structures and... you know what nevermind, you obviously have no idea what you're talking about and have no place in intelligent conversation.
This isn't how you argue, no need to personally attack the guy. This has the potential to be a pretty interesting discussion but people almost invariably respond to flames like this de-railing the whole topic.
Also, what Chef said, I kinda want to see a full game, as well as the entire game vs Oriol.
|
Exactly how do you want to counter mass mutalisks with irridate if the opponent never stacks them?
It's clearly worth teching for it to put down 1 irridate on 1 mutalisk. Wow, you just killed one!
|
On January 20 2011 03:58 L_Master wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2011 03:52 Trowabarton756 wrote:On January 20 2011 03:45 freelander wrote:On January 20 2011 03:40 Trowabarton756 wrote:
=_= did i just read that right? Dude tried to use mass goliaths to kill off mutas??? i mean wouldn't mm or valks or mm+valks or...irridate...or like a thousand other ideas be far more useful? Iunno I feel as if this "top 16 europe" guy isn't all he's cracked up to be. irridate? lol ....whats wrong with irridate for mutas??? I see you don't play terran... It insta splits the muta. Irradiate was good because it would do alot of damage to muta as you worked to remove the damaged one. This AI just takes out the damage one immediately and isn't even that clumped usually in the first place. Spending money on vessels to kill one muta every 75 energy just wouldn't be worth it I don't think.
For the bajillionth time "What about its response to Valkonic"? Valkyries and MM and vessels. Stop trying to act like the killing components aren't there and its just irradiate vs mutas.
Exactly how do you want to counter mass mutalisks with irridate if the opponent never stacks them?
Did you even watch the videos? Its clumping and spreading accordingly. Thusly, in a clump irradiate would be effective if only a contribution of 1 to the MM/Valkyries
|
I think the best counter would be something like marine medic where the movement of the marines would be similar to the AI controlled mutalisks' and the medics did smart healing calculating which marine needs more healing at the moment.
|
Jaedong would still kick it's ass. Somehow.
|
On January 20 2011 03:40 Trowabarton756 wrote:
=_= did i just read that right? Dude tried to use mass goliaths to kill off mutas??? i mean wouldn't mm or valks or mm+valks or...irridate...or like a thousand other ideas be far more useful? Iunno I feel as if this "top 16 europe" guy isn't all he's cracked up to be.
Goliath negate Muta micro with their range. Search for a video that showcased the power of AI muta micro.
It could micro 36 mutalisks indidually to kill off unbelievable amount of archon, turning aside at the correct moment. Basicly, AI mutas are invinsible if you cannot outrange them.
Also, Valks die to scourge pretty easily. And the AI can split the mutas anc control them seperately perfectly.
About irradiate, look at above
On January 20 2011 04:01 Diminotoor wrote:
Did you even watch the videos? Its clumping and spreading accordingly. Thusly, in a clump irradiate would be effective if only a contribution of 1 to the MM/Valkyries
The irradiated muta would be separated immediately and sent to his doom.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
